2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary interrupted by a courageous young woman
Wow - this is one of the most remarkable pieces of video I've seen.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)....missed the other 9 times.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The fact that you do not care for the story does not mean others on DU are not interested. This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be seen.
How many threads were there about Bernie and disruptive activists? Many, many, many.
How many threads were there accusing Danny Lyon of lying about those 60's photos of Bernie? Many. Many.
Selective outrage is a very amusing thing. It is the very opposite of courage.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)Post this several times a day until everyone sees this!
narnian60
(3,510 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)My cousin has OCD, she counts tater tots. It better be an even number or she won't eat.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)You owe me a new keyboard.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)Fairgo
(1,571 posts)You so funny.
The Redheaded Guy
(90 posts)It's very important that we see the true Hillary.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)1% of D.U. has seen it.
If it is worth it, the post needs to be repeated.
JudyM
(29,250 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Hillary being Hillary
JudyM
(29,250 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)but not considering what it might look like on video.
nor what it might mean for ms. williams to get up the courage to do that, but even more importantly to consider why her despicable 'bring to heel' comment might have upset her.
instead of reflecting on these things, as is typical of hillary, she defended herself, saying -I- have never been asked that before!
she might have carried around at least a modicum of shame about this heinous comment, even if it is 2 decades old.
she might have really engaged ms. williams, instead of essentially just pointing at her, and - essentially - shrugging.
she might have even defended ms. williams, protecting her from being taken away.
and yes, she might have even apologized.
ashley paid the $500 to be there. as far as i can see, the only reason she was not invited to stay was hillary's discomfort; had she shushed the crowd when they accused ashley of being rude, they would have shushed.
nope, it is what we see, a complete and thorough indictment.
sadly - so sadly - predictable. but an indictment nonetheless.
there, a moral one; now hillary faces a legal indictment, in addition to aides being forced to testify.
truly, no shame.
JudyM
(29,250 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)This needs to be posted thousands of times! POCs and Latinos go through this crap everyday (escorting them out with armed security while the establishment deals with other business) and this needs to be seen by everyone!
FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)Since we don't live in states where the candidates are up close and personal, we have to rely on what others record. So, I'm glad it is view able here.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)togetherforever
(71 posts)Hillary doesn't have time for a commoner , she has work to do like raising more money from her fellow 1% ers
still_one
(92,209 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)An encounter between two women, one of whom I would vote for.
TheUndecider
(93 posts)Trump would call on the crowd and/or his security staff to forcibly remove her right away.
So I guess what I'm saying is she has more class than the Donald...so let's elect her j/k
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)in Seattle. No security stepped up to intimidate, no one touched those activists, they were given the mic, given the stage and given time. Hillary's men were all over that activist very swiftly, in numbers and she was not given a platform she was given the bum's rush.
scottie55
(1,400 posts)We let the girls make fools of themselves, and no one touched them.
Sorry, I am not a liberal racist.
They hurt the BLM cause a lot more than helping it in Seattle that day.
Calling the folks that fight the hardest for justice racists.
You know.
Bernie Sanders Supporters.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)we are HARDLY "the folks that fight the hardest for justice"
ellennelle
(614 posts)and agree with blue northwest and retrowire.
you can't argue with the results. i think you are gravely mistaken to believe that BLM incident brought only humiliation to those young women. my evidence? just look at how crucial the BLM issue has become in this campaign??!!
bernie's response was strikingly different, and the more appropriate one. obviously.
he elevated the BLM issues in his campaign, and has kept them there, hardly ever (IF ever) making a speech without addressing them.
and now, hillary is forced to at least make reference to the situation, but typically does so by bragging about all she has done (NOT!) for the AA community over the years.
which is why her response was so dreadful. "no one has ever asked me that before"??
WTF does that mean? and what does it tell us?
she has never given it enough thought to have a response ready. and that has 2 implications. one, most of us, when confronted with something for which we should feel ashamed, would have a remorseful response at the ready in the face of such a confrontation. clearly, she did not.
but two, hillary did not even consider it enough of an issue - betraying her total lack of empathy and self-reflection - to have even a stock, prepped, and canned political reaction ready.
this is just a major and total FAIL.
so very sad.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)If I were you.
"Not as bad as Trump" doesn't sound like a winning message.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)Seems a bit exclusive.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)MadCrow
(155 posts)I read on Huff Post that Ashley Williams and a companion contributed $500 to attend, so technically they didn't crash the party,
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)What total disrespect and disdain Hilary and her group paid this young woman.
MadCrow
(155 posts)I read on Huff Post that Ashley Williams and a companion contributed $500 to attend, so technically they didn't crash the party,
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They have changed the direction of the primary and the discussions of the country. Marissa J really set the stage for continued courageous actions by others this primary season. She is a hero of mine. So sad that she was called a racist here for standing up for all of us. I'm extremely proud to support this group.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)She couldn't get her out of there quick enough, then "back to the issues". Because clearly Black Lives Don't Matter to Hillary Clinton.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)This should be run as a Sanders campaign ad. Wow.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Tanuki
(14,918 posts)This way Tad Devine can preserve the secular saint iconagraphy.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)Hold down on your NES control pad, and stay that way.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)But many of her supporters take pride in her attitude.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)is in fact stolen from an actual gesture that Obama made a number if years ago?
polly7
(20,582 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)It has become her signature move.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)In your dreams.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)like the fact that she's called black children and teens "superpredators" or people on welfare "deadbeats" fuck outta here with that mess.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)"fuck outta here with that mess." why don't u get the fuck out of here. You and yours are always posting every little thing that's negative about Hillary. Voters don't feel the way you do. But u r blind to the fact that they are voting for Hillary in big numbers.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)but I'd better not hear any complaining from you and yours when we're fuck-deep in another intervention and have more American troops coming home missing pieces. I fail to see how an out and out racist comment counts as "little things".
/bye.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)As African-Americans hate being used....
ESPECIALLY Millennials and Generation Xers -- just in case you thought African-Americans are blind, deaf and fail to have the internet available to see this video.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)black children are super predators. as far as mass incarceration- don't commit crimes if you have 2 felonies. At some point people will have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Hopefully Hillary has to take responsibility for hers before the convention
togetherforever
(71 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)good luck with supporting Hi11ary, as her campaign continues to nose-dive--partly because she's tone-deaf about the 99%, and because of the burgeoning support for Bernie (still cannot find any pics or videos showing a similar level of enthusiasm and support for Hi11ary).
Feel the BERN!!!
#NotMeUs
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Let's start with the full video, and not just a hand selected snip-it.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4557866/hillary-clinton-criminal-justice-drug-policy-circa-1996
Is it your assertion that only blacks are part of violent gangs? Then it kind of makes the clip irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Gang activity disproportionately affects poor neighborhoods more than wealthy neighborhoods. Would you agree to this much?
Reduction in gang activity therefore, logically improves quality of life and safety of the citizens in the poorer neighborhoods. Would you agree with that statement?
Income inequality disproportionately affects minorities. Agree?
Unless I've lost you on one of these statements, the logical conclusion is that reducing gang activity (which was the ACTUAL topic of that speech), will directly improve the lives of poorer (majority minority) neighborhoods.
The results of the crack down on gang activity, in particular, is also easy enough to demonstrate:
If you want to focus on the private prison system as an atrocity of Human rights? You've got an ally here.
If you want to attack the disgusting abuses by law enforcement of the power that has been entrusted to them, and the use of that power to abuse, and in many cases murder the citizens they are charged with protecting? You've got an ally here.
If you want to use a snippet of a video to paint a false picture of a candidate who has worked for human rights? Nope.
And, before someone comes back with the "then why don't you call out Hillary supporters on this kind of trash campaigning?" I have. More than a few times.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)First, we need to understand the definition of the term "super predator". For that we need to look to the person who coined the term... in this case: John J. DiIulio, Jr.
Here's part of an article from John:
Why are so many blacks in prison? Is the criminal justice system racist? The answer is disquieting.
Spring 1996
http://www.city-journal.org/html/6_2_my_black.html
While his definition does include white males, the disproportionate inference is that super predators are dominantly black.
This has the natural effect of causing a fear reaction toward black males... making the term a powerful pejorative toward young black males.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/us/politics/killing-on-bus-recalls-superpredator-threat-of-90s.html?_r=0
Going back to Hillary's statement... perhaps she didn't understand the racial implications of using such a word.
Were she to apologize for it's use, it might go a long way to negating it's negative impact, I would think.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I guess I never considered Super predator as an implication. Having been (proudly) raised by 60's hippies, I sometimes do see things through rose colored glasses (I make no apology for that).
I will concede that hyperbolic phrases like super predator, and "bring them to heel" are vocabulary that don't belong in any progressive vocab.
Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)Till I saw you and Bubzers interaction.
You're awesome Amimnoch It takes a pretty good person to keep an open mind when discussing differing views. And nope, not going to get offended about the republican remark cause I know this is a pretty emotional subject.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Humm, now why would that be?
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)i'm still voting for her.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Let's start with the full video, and not just a hand selected snip-it.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4557866/hillary-clinton-criminal-justice-drug-policy-circa-1996
Is it your assertion that only blacks are part of violent gangs? Then it kind of makes the clip irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Gang activity disproportionately affects poor neighborhoods more than wealthy neighborhoods. Would you agree to this much?
Reduction in gang activity therefore, logically improves quality of life and safety of the citizens in the poorer neighborhoods. Would you agree with that statement?
Income inequality disproportionately affects minorities. Agree?
Unless I've lost you on one of these statements, the logical conclusion is that reducing gang activity (which was the ACTUAL topic of that speech), will directly improve the lives of poorer (majority minority) neighborhoods.
The results of the crack down on gang activity, in particular, is also easy enough to demonstrate:
If you want to focus on the private prison system as an atrocity of Human rights? You've got an ally here.
If you want to attack the disgusting abuses by law enforcement of the power that has been entrusted to them, and the use of that power to abuse, and in many cases murder the citizens they are charged with protecting? You've got an ally here.
If you want to use a snippet of a video to paint a false picture of a candidate who has worked for human rights? Nope.
And, before someone comes back with the "then why don't you call out Hillary supporters on this kind of trash campaigning?" I have. More than a few times.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)ellennelle
(614 posts)first of all, as the tape clearly shows, she said precisely that.
and second, as for your advice, i would have to suggest you apply that to hillary, as well. she has sashayed up so close to the legal line on so many situations, she should know by now (a) the difference between that and the appearance of impropriety, and (b) it's not the letter but the spirit of the law that really matters.
especially to voters. i'm becoming increasingly enraged, not just at her but at her whole posse inc. the DNC, that she comes to us with such a depth of horrifying baggage, her nomination could tank our chances in november!
i'm reminded of jon edwards and his wife, and how much they knew long before he was caught. and still, they campaigned, like - hey, cue that shoulder brushoff tape! - no flies on me!
the ostrich does not present it's best side when its head is buried in the sand, pal. please get a clue.
and i beseech you with the deepest of sincere affection.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)After that, nothing you wrote mattered.
Duckworthmckay
(1 post)So where did the phrase Super predator come from ?
This is the guyJohn J. DiIulio, Jr.
The new Yorker Nov 4, 1996
[link:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1996/11/04/the-criminals-of-tomorrow]
DiIulio argues that crime is essentially a moral problem, and that its solution must be found in the moral realm. He believes that the moral authority of the black church is the only way to counter the ruinous influence of inner-city life and is currently building a network to coordinate the efforts of inner-city black ministers.
By Newsweek Staff On 12/3/95 at 7:00 PM
No one doubts that the teen population will grow substantially in the next 10 years: the children are already born. And no one disputes that hundreds of thousands of American kids are being pushed toward adolescent criminality by neglect, abuse and just plain bad parenting. Still, there is a murmur of quiet dissent about the apocalyptic predictions that DiIulio and Fox have been making--a sense, as one expert put it, that "DiIulio's rhetoric exceeds his facts" and that everyone "needs to keep some balance here." There is also an increasingly sharp debate between police commanders like New York's William Bratton and scholars who insist that population demographics are the primary determinants of U.S. crime trends. Bratton, who crows about seeing "the end of crime as we know it," recently confronted a roomful of academics in Boston, insisting that New York's crime bust is largely attributable to more effective tactics by the New York Police Department.
(A year before Clinton made her speech the police knew this theory was full of holes and they were still floating this balloon of hot air)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1995-12-15
Why religion? Two reasons. First, a growing body of scientific evidence from a variety of academic disciplines indicates that churches can help cure or curtail many severe socioeconomic ills. For example, a 1986 study by Harvard economist Richard Freeman found that among black urban youth, church attendance was a better predictor of who would escape drugs, crime and poverty than any other single variable (income, family structure) and that churchgoing youth were more likely than otherwise comparable youth to behave in socially constructive ways. Likewise, a study by a panel of leading specialists just published by the journal Criminology concluded that, while much work remains to be done, there is substantial empirical evidence that religion serves "as an insulator against crime and delinquency." And we have long known that many of the most effective substance-abuse prevention and treatment programs, both in society and behind bars, are either explicitly religious or quasi-religious in their orientation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So one would think that being that she was quoting from John J. DiIulio, Jr's "finding" The coming of the Super-Predator ( they were not actually based on any real empirical evidence of any sort ) and that to address the "problem" at the time he repeatedly only met with black church leaders. Current politics aside, you tell me why in 1996 was Hillary using Lee Atwater's verbiage and quoting from a neo-con-dem that at the time of her quote had been discredited by the police officials in the most impacted cities?
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)You mean like destroying Honduras and Libya, and attempting to destroy Syria?
You mean like helping keep Haitian salaries at 24cents/hour so you can wear cheap Nike's?
You mean like using an unsecured private server to hold top secret information and then lying about it?
togetherforever
(71 posts)She has issues to address , important stuff
BLM is for the commoners
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Though I suspect this one is not going anywhere
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Clinton should have given her the mic to speak for a bit, or at least addressed her questions and not had her hauled out.
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)merbex
(3,123 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I hope that admission fee is pro-rated on the basis of time; she should get a refund of $499.93.
polly7
(20,582 posts)And a public apology for having her concerns dismissed and being bodily thrown out.
kracer20
(199 posts)That little gem is what struck me the most on this exchange, and seemed to generate a few groans from an obviously pro Hillary group.
Props to that wonderful lady for doing what so many of us wouldn't dare!
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)Can I talk? Well, she has been doing a lot of talking for a lot of years. I think it might be time for her to listen to those who do not pay huge amounts of money to her campaign. Would it hurt her to be nice rather than talking to this woman like her issue was of no consequence? This brave woman was not being out of like, she did not yell or make a scene, she just wanted to be heard and you can see that unless there is a scene made those concerns will not be addressed. Hence the actions of BLM. I salute them for their bravery and it has worked, at least with some.
It is no surprise that I do not care for Hillary but I try most of the time not to say things about her in general but now I will. In general I have had a hard time understanding why anyone would support her. They do and they have their reasons but the one thing I get from her every time I see her or hear her is that she does not really care about anyone except her 1% buds. It is overwhelming to me when she talks.
When Bernie turned over the mic in Seattle all we heard was how weak he was. How he just gave up and backed away. How could you want someone like that as president? Most of that was from outside DU but it was here too. I never saw it as a weakness. I think he was pretty flustered actually but he could have had them thrown out. He could have just walked off stage and left. I believe he did leave because of a rally he needed to get to but he stayed for some time while the talked. Somehow I do not see this method of shutting down actual important, serious (deadly serious) concerns of people as respectful of their concerns. It looks like, and confirms to me anyway, that she really does not care unless you are of the 1% buddy group and don't you dare assume you can interrupt her canned speech.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)and finish my speech.........
HelenWheels
(2,284 posts)If you are a Bernie supporter why don't you post positive articles about him and not tear down a fellow Democrat?
polly7
(20,582 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)If a positive thread about Bernie is put up, the responses contain some nod at Bernie and then on to Hillary and how she wouldn't do this. They are not really supporting Bernie, only holding on to him as a hook they can use for Hillary bashing.
The common use of right wing sources says it all.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)It's posted because it matters, the girl's questions matter and Hillary was rude and dismissive AND she couldn't answer the question.
It's germane and should be posted.
autonomous
(45 posts)"this piece of garbage" Finding it hard to understand you over the hissing.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)HRC is incredibly rude to this BLM protester and crickets
thereismore
(13,326 posts)First of all, how many requests does it take for Hillary to answer?
Second, she said she would address that question. Did she? Or did she just go back to the "issues".
Third, Hillary is really off her political game when she actually said "heel" out loud.
Forth, she won't apologize.
Fifth, I congratulate the brave young lady, and thank her from the bottom of my heart!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Direct question regarding the truth of one of the major 'reforms' by another democratic administration. Politicians cannot be forthcoming and are usually not truthful, being full of obfuscating BS. America, since slavery has been trying to avoid equality for all PoC, and with women fighting and dying in combat in the last two American adventures perptrated by MI and the RW, most RWers would still prefer the woman stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. This racism and sexism practiced by the oligarchy should not be allowed to ruin lives like it does. It is shameful for 'civilized' human beings to be so hateful and bent on maintaining control for themselves, be darned the collateral damge done to all citizen. BRAVO again to the young woman...."brought to heel"???? Is that true Hillary???
jalan48
(13,869 posts)I can kinda get how she might have sounded when she told Wall Street to "Cut it out!" (privately though)- she does so much better in private meetings and with secret email accounts.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Terrible.
basselope
(2,565 posts)"No one has ever asked me that question before" (lie)
followed right into...
"Now back to the issues"
As if the question she has never been asked before is NOT an issue.
avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)I think she said, "OK, back to the issues I think are important."
Laughing Mirror
(4,185 posts)as she says, "Okay. Now let's get back to the issues that I think are important."
Did anyone notice that? Someone might do a close-up gif of that subconscious and revealing gesture.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)skin their knuckles,work from pay check to paycheck to get by ....no
left lowrider
(97 posts)Holding a microphone and saying- "if you will let me talk . . " what a strange way to use power
Merryland
(1,134 posts)but it did stand out as an odd response from someone who talks nonstop.
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)I am sick of the continual D.U. Hillary bashing. Leave that the Repugs. Want to push Bernie? Just ignore Hillary pretty much. If she turns out to be the candidate, what then?
Arazi
(6,829 posts)yes,the video of HRC's response is pretty damning by itself but there's no criticism in the OP at all of her actions.
Are we just supposed to ignore this happened?
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)D.U. front page posts today?
Arazi
(6,829 posts)specifically aimed at him.
I don't actually care about that though, that was just a quick count to reaffirm my own impression that the anti-either candidate posts are pretty well split regardless of what each side claims
That said, I think the OP was pretty even handed. It's praising Ashley Williams. That HRC looks bad in comparison could have been pointed out but the OP refrained
Merryland
(1,134 posts)And Ashley Williams may be someone who helps turn the South Carolina tide...
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)We lose.
This is a love fest compared to what she'll face in the GE.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)confronted with her own words
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)Just more Hillary snark.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)a 47% moment?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)somebody else referred to this as a macaca moment
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)If she was serious about answering the charge, why did she let her goons put hands on that girl and push her out the door?
Disgusting!!
azmom
(5,208 posts)Could give a fuck about black and brown people in jail.