If Clinton gets the nomination and Trump runs to her left, then what?

[eridani]

He can easily do that, having come out against the Iraq war and TPP, and even mentioning single payer favorably. (Never mind that he's done jackshit about any of those issues.)

[Nonhlanhla]

1. Last time I checked

"left" did not include demonizing minorities, banning religions, and calling women names.

There is more to being "left" than just how one voted on Iraq, where one stands on global trade treaties, or whether one favors ONE particular form of universal healthcare.

[eridani]

4. No, but it does mean being antiwar and pro-single payer

Focusing on attacking Trump's bigotry would of course be a good move.

[Nonhlanhla]

25. Not necessarily

Anti-war, to be sure, but not necessarily anti-all-war. I do think Hillary is too hawkish, but being left does not necessarily mean being against all war. There are times when it's conservatives who don't want war, and liberals who enter it: WWII comes to mind as a clear example, but there are others.

Being left most certainly does NOT necessarily mean being for single payer. There are other approaches to universal healthcare. Single payer is just one model.

My big fear is that when Bernie supporters talk about getting back the old Democratic Party, that they forget that the old Democratic Party, although more populist on economic maters, was also racist. I am not accusing Bernie's movement of being racist (that would simply be untrue) but I do fear that nostalgia about the good old days might be more a white thing. The "old days" when the Democratic Party was more populist, were also the days that were not so good for racial/ethnic minorities.

[leveymg]

33. He already is.

He's an ideological shape-shifter, and doesn't hold onto any particular position for longer than it takes to gather support from a constituency, and he then moves on to the next episode. There is no need for continuity for a reality show host or a stand up shock jock. He just has to be continually outrageous.

In a head-to-head, he beats Hillary, who is tied up by her machine politics and personal history to a ongoing narrative. She has what is know in the industry as a shockingly low Q-score (audience likeability) and a narrow demographic. She's more like a soap opera with a loyal following that goes on for decades, but she can't expand her audience much.

Better get used to seeing The Trump Show on the tube.

[Nonhlanhla]

39. He already is progressive?! Ridiculous. nt.

Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[leveymg]

41. Never said "progressive" - that's your term for Trump, not mine. You must dislike progressives

I said he's not tied to any particular ideology or position. He can and will attack Hillary from any position, even something that sounds vaguely Left-ish, particularly on foreign policy. It will work, because she's vulnerable. Oh, so vulnerable.

Just listen to what Hillary has said about war-and-peace issues. It's bound to come back at her:

"Obliterate Iran" (2008);
"Syria No-fly zone" (2016);
"We came, we saw, he died" (Libya, 2012);
"If you’re part of Hezbollah, you’re part of a terrorist organization, plain and simple.” (2015)
“I would not support this agreement for one second if I thought it put Israel in greater danger” (Iran and Israel again, 2015); and, of course,

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

[Nonhlanhla]

43. Not my term for Trump

That is my whole point! the topic of conversation here is that if Trump were to adopt some of Bernie's ideas, that would mean he's running as a progressive. Which he is NOT. AT ALL. Progressive (being "left&quot is not limited to economic issues. Trump is far, far right on core progressive values.

[leveymg]

44. If I misunderstood you, I apologize.

Last edited Thu Feb 25, 2016, 01:37 PM - Edit history (1)

I'd rather Trump stayed on the other side of these issues, as going Left on anti-war is only going to broaden his quicksilver appeal. That's because the vast majority of the American people don't want us to get into another war, not for Saudi Arabia, not for Israel, not for Ukraine, not for anyone other than to prevent a clear and present danger to Americans. That is true across both parties, except the Neocons in both.

[Nonhlanhla]

54. OK. I thought we might be talking past each other. nt.

[grasswire]

47. your last words are key

Her following continues to shrink. She has no room to grow.

OTOH, millions of people still are unaquainted with Bernie and many like him more as they get to know him.

[eridani]

57. Without establishing New Deal programs in the first place--

--it would have been impossible to expand them to cover domestic and agricultural labor.

[peacebird]

2. Doesn't matter. If Clinton gets the nominationwe will lose in the general election.

Especially as the latest BLM video gets more airplay. Clinton clearly does not like being challenged and she comes off as extremely condescending

[Nonhlanhla]

26. As opposed to Trump's humility? LOL. nt.

[leveymg]

34. It's not humility that gets one elected. It's likeability. Her Q-scores are appallingly low.

Trump is a chameleon, and much of the audience reads into him what they want to see. More than anything else, they're entertained by him.

[Tarc]

3. Then...he would lose all of his base?

My goodness, what an extraordinarily silly question.

[eridani]

5. Why? Plenty of conservative populists hate TPP n/t

[BernieforPres2016]

16. Yeah, Trump is going to lose his base

Like he did after the National Review devoted an entire issue to trashing him. Trump turned his base against Fox News over the Megyn Kelly flap. Like he said, he could shoot somebody in the middle of 5th Avenue and they would still vote for him. He can run anywhere he wants to and his base will still support him.

Trump's opponents have run ads against him showing him praising Hillary Clinton, saying he was pro choice including partial birth abortion and for favoring a single payer health care plan. None of which has even put a nick in his base.

Have you not been paying any attention to the Republican primaries at all?

[RKP5637]

35. Trump, is not the goofus many would like to believe he is. He's smart and calculating, says what he

feels he needs to say to get free advertising and attention, and votes. I'm convinced everything he does is very calculated. The DNC and DWS had best be very calculating too in how to win in 2016. WIth much of the US really hating establishment politics, running an establishment platform well might not be the wisest choice. My gut feeling is Trump will move to the middleground in the GE to maximize voting potential.

[yourpaljoey]

55. I agree

Hillary can not win.

[Dawgs]

20. You couldn't be more wrong.

I work with a very religious Trump supporter that doesn't care that he's greedy, not religious, and has probably paid for multiple abortions.

He thinks that Hillary is so much worse and doesn't care. He loves Trump.

[Tarc]

45. So, what's the margin of error in a sample size of one?

[Cobalt Violet]

6. We have a president Trump whether he runs to her left or right if she is the nominee.

[EdwardBernays]

7. He can easily run to the left AND to the right

He can't do that to Sanders.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

8. It would be the most flippity floppy race ever

Moderator: Secretary Clinton, in (year) you said this, but last month you said that. Which is it?
Clinton: 5 minute filibuster...

Moderator: Mr. Trump, in (year) you said this. We have it on tape...
Trump (interrupts): No, no, no. I never said this. Listen to the tape, I said that.

These so-called debates are going to be abysmal.

[w4rma]

9. There is a horrible potential for Trump to bring in more whites into the Republican Party.

And isolate every minority into the Democratic Party with a smaller minority of ethical white folks.

Trump is a damn Nazi. And those backing Hillary are going to put that Nazi in charge if we aren't careful.

[Duckhunter935]

10. she will evolve into Trump like she did with Bernie

[grasswire]

48. good guess!

She likely has a team right now working on how she can hug him like she has done Obama and Bernie. A weathervane hugging a whirligig. Dizzy stuff!

[mythology]

11. There is no way for that to happen

You mistake in theory being able to have one or two liberal positions with actually being a liberal.

Trump can't effectively run to Clinton's left as it would cause the anti-minority, anti-government people who support him to drop him like a bad habit. Do you really think that the people who screech over the ACA are going to be fine with Trump advocating universal coverage (single payer or otherwise)? Or do you think that Democrats/liberals will overlook that he wants to put up a wall between us and at least Mexico and ban any Muslim from entering the country?

[w4rma]

14. Trump says a different thing every single day. He'll say what he wants to say.

Polls say that he's trusted more than Hillary so more people will believe what he has to say, even while their non-grounded brains don't comprehend that he said a different thing the previous day.

And Hillary won't be able to counter, at all. She'll be bogged down in fake scandal after fake scandal as people continue to ignore what she says, because people don't trust what she says.

This is *very dangerous* fire that the Hillary supporters are playing with.

[BernieforPres2016]

18. They're not all fake scandals

He would crush her over the paid speeches to Wall Street. He can tell stories of how he never gave money to politicians without expecting something in return and how he always got it.

[w4rma]

19. Yeah, there's that too. A mix of one or two real ones gives credibility to the other fake ones. (nt)

[restorefreedom]

12. he will win anyway. nt

[NCTraveler]

13. I think it would be amazing to have that.

Truly amazing and great for the country. Fuck conservatives. Two progressive messages in the general. Hell yes.

[Nonhlanhla]

27. WTF?!!!

Since when is a message that is built on hatred of Muslims, insulting Hispanics, and denigrating women, PROGRESSIVE, just because he might add an unworkable health care plan and an unrealistic approach to international trade to the mix?

[NCTraveler]

29. The op presented a hypothetical.

You seem to have missed that. Trump isn't progressive in any way. If this is your issue, why not take it up with the op? It was a hypothetical. lol. Love knee jerk reactions. They provide me with many smiles throughout the day.

[Nonhlanhla]

30. I wasn't responding to the OP

I was responding to YOU. You suggested that the hypothetical posted in the OP represents a progressive vision.

My reaction is not a knee jerk one, but one of shock that anyone on this site can suggest that even if Trump adopts some of Bernie's positions and runs to the left of Hillary on SOME issues, that his view would represent a progressive vision. Adding some populist ideas to his mix of racism and sexism would NOT make his campaign progressive in any way, shape or form.

[NCTraveler]

32. Then that seems to be the issue.

My reply was directly of the premise of the op. Since my reply is directly to the op, and you read it as being independent from the op, it is understandable as to why you are confused.

Thanks for that clarification.

[Lucinda]

15. Then the Republicans will elect their first Democratic president?

I suspect the moderates would ditch him for her anyway. At least the ones I know will. I'm surrounded by them.

[PonyUp]

17. I fear Trump would destroy Hillary in a debate. She's not good at unscripted questions/answers. nt

[grossproffit]

37. LOL! Trump is the worst debater, ever. She would make mincemeat out of him.

[Orsino]

21. He's not really going to run to her left...

...though a few of the vague generalities he tosses about might sound a little lefty.

If he cares to stick around for the general, and feels a need for any specific policy, he'll (phoneticallt) reference some ghost-written bullshit from some would-be plutocrat.

[w4rma]

22. Trump survived a Republican primary after saying that 911 was Bush's fault in a debate.

Trump can damn well say anything he wants to his base. He'll pretend to run left.

[BernieforPres2016]

23. Great point

Trump didn't just say 9-11 was Bush's fault, he said the Bush administration knew about it in advance. Then he tap danced away from in the days after the debate and his supporters didn't care a bit.

Trump's frequent assertions that he was against the Iraq War were shown to be a lie when a tape of him telling Howard Stern (no, Trump's "Christian" supporters don't care that he went down in the gutter on Stern's show) in 2002 that he supported going into Iraq. Again, his supporters didn't care.

[Orsino]

40. As you imply, Trump may feel no need to say much of anything new.

He may be smart enough to moderate his message for the general, but that comes with the risk of boring the mob who want spectacles.

Running against an opponent with an actual personality and political agenda would be a new experience for him. I think we'll see if he's got any cunning/intellugence, or whether he's just a spoiled rich brat who never had to work at anything.

I still suspect he doesn't want a real job, and will find an excuse to quit after throwing feces at anyone not named Trump. At the moment, he's still coasting.

[BernieforPres2016]

24. He could run to her left on healthcare

He could easily say Obamacare is a disaster but everybody should have insurance so we need to go to a single payer healthcare plan. And he could run to her left on campaign finance reform including getting rid of SuperPacs. He could kill her with that issue.

[greenman3610]

28. then even more repubs will stay home

[leveymg]

42. It's the 2008 Democrats who have been staying home so far. Record GOP turnout

and almost all of that increased Republican primary turnout is because of Trump and the "All Trump All The Time Show" the networks have given him.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. No they will vote against Clinton.

[RKP5637]

31. Trump is a salesman and a navigator. He will find a path through it all.

My hunch is he will shift strategies drastically depending on who the democratic nominee is. Never take at face value what Trump is doing. He says what is necessary to get attention, tons of free advertising and votes. My hunch is in the GE he will shift to the middleground to maximize his potential votes.

[Gothmog]

36. Then Trump will alienate the GOP base

Many in the GOP base will be staying home if Trump is the nominee

[togetherforever]

38. Runs to her Left? He's already left of her

Hillary is very conservative

[grasswire]

46. jury results

Feb 25, 2016, 12:07 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Runs to her Left? He's already left of her
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1334969

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pro-Trump troll.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:13 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Nope
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE

[togetherforever]

56. Thanks but I was called pro Trump?

I can't stand him . He is one of the worse examples of a human being .

He's a sexist pig.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. He will run as the populist candidate for "Change"

and he will do that from both the left and the right and he will win.

[Vinca]

51. If it's Trump and Hillary when the primaries are over,

she'll go right and he'll go left. It's not rocket science. The biggest factor in the general election is enthusiasm. Righties are stoked, we aren't. For our side it's about as exciting as leftover casserole for dinner assuming Hillary is the nominee.

[HassleCat]

52. To the left and right.

Trump will not adhere to traditional Republican thinking. He will use a kind of crazy libertarian approach to run all over the map, to the left of Clinton on foreign policy, and to the right on immigration. A Clinton-Trump matchup is looking more and more likely, and it will be interesting, to say the least.

[Android3.14]

53. It's the same as if he stays to the right when paired against Hillary.

We lose.

A vote for Hillary in the primary is a vote for Trump in the general.