Bernie Sanders speech on the 1994 crime bill "Incarcerating a Country"

[Uncle Joe]

[libtodeath]

1. This is what Bernie believed while Hillary was talking about superpredators.

[Uncle Joe]

2. Their perceptions are as night and day.

Whether it was this issue or waging war in Iraq just to mention another.

Peace to you, libtodeath.

[Uncle Joe]

3. In this 1991 speech Bernie coming from a 90+% white state, mentions disproportionately

punishing blacks, one has to ask how much political gain was that for him in Vermont, a predominately white state?

[smiley]

8. The man's message has never changed.....

Thank you for that.

[Uncle Joe]

10. It was my pleasure, smiley.

Peace to you.

[smiley]

11. Peace to you too Uncle Joe!

I always enjoy your posts!

[TIME TO PANIC]

13. How any liberal/progressive could pass up the opportunity to vote for this man, is beyond me. n/t

[Jenny_92808]

102. +1

I feel the same way.

[Jitter65]

4. And then he voted for it. Did anyone really listen to Hillary's discussion of the bill and why she

supported the bill? I guess not.

[Uncle Joe]

5. This is why Bernie voted for it and what Hillary thought of the people.

Thanks to californiabernin

PRESS RELEASE
Sanders Voted for 1994 Crime Bill to Support Assault Weapons Ban, Violence Against Women Provisions
FEBRUARY 25, 2016

FLINT, Mich. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders’ campaign manager on Thursday reiterated the senator’s reasoning for voting in favor of the Clinton administration’s 1994 Crime Bill despite serious reservations. The House version of the bill included a ban on semi-automatic assault weapons. Sanders had supported the ban since 1988. The conference committee version included not only the assault weapons ban but also the Violence Against Women Act provisions. Sanders supported these efforts to protect women.

In Sanders’ statement at the time, he criticized the mass incarceration and death penalty provisions in the bill, saying:

“…it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence.

And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails.

Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.”

During consideration of the bill, Sanders voted six times to weaken or eliminate the death penalty provisions and voted separately against creating new mandatory minimums. Then-First Lady Hillary Clinton spoke strongly in favor of increased incarceration, labeling at risk youth as “super-predators” who had to be “brought to heel.”

“When this so-called crime bill was being considered, Bernie Sanders criticized its harsh incarceration and death penalty provisions,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ campaign manager. “Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, resorted to dog whistle politics and dehumanizing language. Bernie was right then and he’s right now. We need to invest in those communities that have been neglected in this country. Poor communities – more often than not, communities of color – deserve the same opportunities and education that other communities have. Bernie Sanders has always known jails and incarceration are not the answer. Nor is heated rhetoric against young people of any race. You can’t throw vulnerable people under the bus just because it’s politically expedient.”

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-voted-for-1994-crime-bill-to-support-assault-weapons-ban-violence-against-women-provisions/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511339700

[itsrobert]

6. He likes to play both sides of the fence

Says one thing and does another.

[Uncle Joe]

7. Hillary just played one side, the dog whistle side, Bernie tried repeatedly to improve the bill and

voted for it reluctantly because it had a couple of needed provisions as I just posted up-thread above your post.

Bernie's long distinguished history in the Congress has been consistent as in the 1991 speech which I also posted on this thread, but he was only one Congressperson in a house of 435.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

16. Nice try, but

pragmatism only plays with Hillary supporters when it boosts her.

[TM99]

9. He would not have had to have chosen

to support and vote for an omnibus bill with good and horrid provisions in it if it wasn't for the triangulation of the New Dems trying to appeal to the right with their racism, love of punishment, and fear of drugs and the left with cursory support for women through the VAWA.

[dsc]

26. of course nothing is ever st bernie of vermont's fault

[TM99]

28. More of the religious cult bullshit, I see.

Last edited Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:12 PM - Edit history (1)

No actual arguments or justifications of the fact that one was the fucking President of the god damn United States and the other was a fucking Rep from a small New England state.

Yeah, I didn't think so. Next.

[JonLeibowitz]

97. Technically a representative, but he was more elite as the at-large Rep. than the 2 senators :)

[TM99]

105. I corrected it - thanks.

Yes, he held unimaginable power in 1994. I am surprised more did not worship St. Bernard then as they do now.

[Uncle Joe]

29. Bernie tried six time to improve the bill but he was only 1 Congressperson in a House of 435. Bernie

isn't a Saint, but he is enlightened.

[daleanime]

108. I listened to how she helped sell it....

it that different then how she discusses it? And if so why?

[TIME TO PANIC]

12. K & R!

[Uncle Joe]

14. "Only one Bernie"

[Jenny_92808]

116. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

Your posts are amazing.

[Uncle Joe]

128. Thanks for the kind words, Jenny,

but it's easy when you have a candidate like Bernie to support.

[WillyT]

15. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Agschmid]

17. And then he voted "yea".

[Uncle Joe]

18. This is why Bernie voted for it and what Hillary thought of the people.

PRESS RELEASE
Sanders Voted for 1994 Crime Bill to Support Assault Weapons Ban, Violence Against Women Provisions
FEBRUARY 25, 2016

FLINT, Mich. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders’ campaign manager on Thursday reiterated the senator’s reasoning for voting in favor of the Clinton administration’s 1994 Crime Bill despite serious reservations. The House version of the bill included a ban on semi-automatic assault weapons. Sanders had supported the ban since 1988. The conference committee version included not only the assault weapons ban but also the Violence Against Women Act provisions. Sanders supported these efforts to protect women.

In Sanders’ statement at the time, he criticized the mass incarceration and death penalty provisions in the bill, saying:

“…it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence.

And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails.

Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.”

During consideration of the bill, Sanders voted six times to weaken or eliminate the death penalty provisions and voted separately against creating new mandatory minimums. Then-First Lady Hillary Clinton spoke strongly in favor of increased incarceration, labeling at risk youth as “super-predators” who had to be “brought to heel.”

“When this so-called crime bill was being considered, Bernie Sanders criticized its harsh incarceration and death penalty provisions,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ campaign manager. “Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, resorted to dog whistle politics and dehumanizing language. Bernie was right then and he’s right now. We need to invest in those communities that have been neglected in this country. Poor communities – more often than not, communities of color – deserve the same opportunities and education that other communities have. Bernie Sanders has always known jails and incarceration are not the answer. Nor is heated rhetoric against young people of any race. You can’t throw vulnerable people under the bus just because it’s politically expedient.”

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-voted-for-1994-crime-bill-to-support-assault-weapons-ban-violence-against-women-provisions/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511339700

There is a major difference in motivation and promotion.

[Agschmid]

19. A "yea" vote is a "yea" vote.

I don't fault him for it, but it happened.

[Uncle Joe]

20. I'm happy to hear you don't fault Bernie for it but do you fault Hillary for using racist

dog whistle language in promoting it?

[Agschmid]

22. I fault you for your stance here, both our leaders failed us.

[Uncle Joe]

23. You just stated that you don't fault Bernie, now you're trying to have it both ways by not

answering my question "do you fault Hillary for using racist dog whistle language?"

[Agschmid]

24. I don't fault him, he voted for the VWA.

I do think both of them should not have supported the bill, they both did.

It is what it is.

[Uncle Joe]

25. There was a major difference in MOTIVATION and PROMOTION.

Bernie (coming from white state Vermont) was citing the dangers of this race based incarceration mindset even in 1991 and Hillary in her promotion of the 1994 crime bill validated Bernie's message as to what we should be against.

That is what it is.

[Agschmid]

27. ... And then he voted for it.

So cool speech, but apparently it didn't matter.

Both our candidates could have done better here, they didn't.

[Uncle Joe]

30. Bernie reluctantly voted for it because the bill protected women, and banned assault weapons,

Hillary promoted racist dog whistle language, that's a major difference whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.

[Agschmid]

31. He voted for it.

Again both... Could have done better.

They didn't.

That's the end of it.

[Uncle Joe]

32. Bernie couldn't do better he was only 1 of 435 members in Congress, Hillary could have done better

by not playing on the most base and ignorant fears of the people subliminally promoting racism.

[Agschmid]

33. He could have voted "nay"...

Bernie... And Hillary could have done much better.

I can do this all day... There is no "good" stand here. 1 vote matters, even out of 435.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Had Bernie voted nay after trying six times to improve the bill, people here would be condemning him

for not protecting women or not banning assault weapons.

Bernie unlike Hillary never played on racist fears, he cited the primary causes for and the best solution to crime, poverty, lack of education and opportunity, neglect of our government, despair, Bernie was promoting with his words that our nation should focus more on addressing those critical issues and others rather than building more prisons, that's light years away from Hillary's message.

I honestly have to wonder if you listened to the video in the OP?

[Agschmid]

35. A "yea" vote is support for a bill, the FULL bill.

Video or not, the vote matters.

Again, they both could have done better.

[Uncle Joe]

36. Bernie did the best he could, Hillary did the worst and you couldn't be more wrong

a yea vote for a bill is NOT support for the FULL bill, to believe otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how our legislative process works.

I know, you're smarter than that.

[Agschmid]

37. Thanks for the personal insult.

And a "yea" vote is a vote for the full bill.

There is no way around it... You vote "yea" you voted that way for the whole bill.

[Uncle Joe]

38. That wasn't an insult, I said you're smarter than that and you just changed your text.

This is what you posted.

A "yea" vote is support for a bill, the FULL bill.

That's simply not the case, throughout our history Congresspeople have voted for bills wherein they didn't entirely support every bit of it or the FULL bill and you know that.

[Agschmid]

39. I didn't change my text, no edits were made and it was a personal insult.

And yes throughout our history people have not supported all parts of a bill, but the minute they vote "yea" on the bill they are singing off on the full bill.

The whole thing.

The entire bill.

All of it.

That's it, it's that simple.

[Uncle Joe]

40. Yes you did change your text, post #35

A "yea" vote is support for a bill, the FULL bill.

Post #37

And a "yea" vote is a vote for the full bill.

Voting for or signing off on a bill is NOT the same as supporting every aspect of the bill which very likely will have parts the Congressperson agrees with and parts they don't.

It's not a De Facto statement in totality of what that Congressperson believes, as I stated above the House has 435 members and compromise on one aspect or another is a given fact of life in our legislative process.

It's that simple.

[Agschmid]

41. The words mean exactly the same thing.

Bernie voted "yea".

That's the end of it.

Yes that vote was 1/435, but the vote mattered.

[Uncle Joe]

42. No they don't and you know better, SUPPORT for every aspect of a bill is not the same as voting

for a bill.

The former means you agree with everything in it, the latter means you voted for it because the good may outweigh the bad but it wasn't your ideal bill.

[Agschmid]

43. He clearly was willing to vote it. He voted "yea".

[Uncle Joe]

44. Because it protected women and banned assault weapons, he tried to improve it six times but Bernie

didn't use racist dog whistle language in promoting the bill and his long track record which I have posted some of on this thread is testimony to what he believed, that we needed to chart an entirely different course than the message Hillary; was proclaiming, "super predators," "bring them to heel," "more prisons" etc. etc.

[Agschmid]

45. Yes they both failed us here.

[Uncle Joe]

46. Bernie didn't, Hillary did, from your post #19 "I don't fault him for it, but it happened." do you

fault Hillary for using racist dog whistle language?

[Agschmid]

47. Bernie didn't? He voted "yea".

Yes Hillary could have done better...

Again THEY BOTH could have.

[Uncle Joe]

50. Bernie tried to improve the bill six times and his message was opposite of Hillary's race based

dog whistle message and proposals.

It seems that now you do disagree with Hillary's racist dog whistle message.

How could Bernie have done better?

[Agschmid]

53. He tried to improve the bill...

But he wasn't able to, so then he voted "yea" for it.

Got it.

[Uncle Joe]

54. Do you believe Bernie should've voted against the the assault weapons ban and the Violence Against

Women Act provisions?

Bernie supported these efforts to protect women.

[Agschmid]

56. I believe Bernie could have introduced them as a separate bill.

He didn't, as far as I know.

And if he did, he was unable to get any traction on them.

So he threw in the towel and voted "yea" on the bill, the whole thing.

[one_voice]

121. there was no assault weapons ban

in the bill..

Sanders Campaign Says He Voted For Crime Bill Due To Weapons Ban That Wasn’t There

The Sanders campaign says he voted for the 1994 crime bill because it contained a ban on assault weapons — but that ban wasn’t in the version of the bill he initially supported.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons?utm_term=.htmkGbO5m#.cn82mO1jY


Just posting new info.

[Uncle Joe]

127. I believe that's incorrect.

Efforts to create restrictions on assault weapons at the federal government level intensified in 1989 after 34 children and a teacher were shot and five children killed in Stockton, Calif. using a semi-automatic copy of an AK-47 assault rifle.[1][2][3] The July 1993 101 California Street shooting also contributed to passage of the ban. The shooter killed eight people and wounded six. Two of the three firearms he used were TEC-9 semi-automatic handguns with Hellfire triggers.[4] The ban tried to address public concerns about mass shootings by restricting firearms that met the criteria for what it defined as a "semiautomatic assault weapon," as well as magazines that met the criteria for what it defined as a "large capacity ammunition feeding device."[5]:1–2

In November 1993, the proposed legislation passed the U.S. Senate. The bill's author, Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and other advocates said that it was a weakened version of the original proposal.[6] In May 1994, former presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan, wrote to the U.S. House of Representatives in support of banning "semi-automatic assault guns." They cited a 1993 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll that found 77 percent of Americans supported a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of such weapons.[7]

Rep. Jack Brooks (D-TX), then chair of the House Judiciary Committee, tried unsuccessfully to remove the assault weapons ban section from the crime bill.[8] The National Rifle Association (NRA) opposed the ban. In November 1993, NRA spokesman Bill McIntyre said that assault weapons "are used in only 1 percent of all crimes".[9] The low usage statistic was supported in a 1999 Department of Justice brief.[5]

The legislation passed in September 1994 with the assault weapon ban section expiring in 2004 due to its sunset provision.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

[one_voice]

130. According to the article..

The House version of the bill, which passed the House that April and which Sanders has been criticized for voting for when he was a representative from Vermont, did not include an assault weapons ban.

The ban was after he voted:

The ban was in the version of the bill that passed the Senate. Sanders ultimately did vote for the bill with the ban in it, and President Bill Clinton signed it into law

I only saw this today. It popped up on social media. I don't think it is or will be a big deal.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/christophermassie/sanders-campaign-says-he-voted-for-crime-bill-due-to-weapons?utm_term=.htmkGbO5m#.cn82mO1jY

[Uncle Joe]

132. I agree with your last sentence.

Peace to you, one_voice.

[Agschmid]

48. Shall we continue?

[Uncle Joe]

51. All night if need be, I have a full pot of coffee. n/t

[Beowulf]

58. So a "nay" vote would then be a rejection of the entire bill,

a rejection of the weapons ban and laws addressing violence against women?

At the time of his vote, he explained his views on the individual portions of the bill. He was clear he was troubled by the mass incarceration and death penalty provision but to vote no risked losing two things he cared deeply about, so he voted yes and then worked to weaken and eliminate the the troubling provisions. Hillary supported the entire bill and as far as I can tell still does. For Bernie this was a morally complex matter, for Hillary, not at all. To conflate their situations is wrong. Bernie was put in a situation by Democratic leadership. The Clintons made the choice to create that situation. Bernie showed he has a conscience, the Clintons, not so much.

Thoughtfulness v. cynicism.

[Agschmid]

59. Bernie voted "yea".

That "yea" vote was on the whole bill.

Bernie is/was an independent how did the "democratic leadership" put him into a situation...

So let me get this straight, Bernie pushes for something, doesn't get it, then Bernie voted for it anyway. All because he was pressured by the democrats, as an independent... And we expect him to lead when he caved to pressure from a party he wasn't even part of? Is that what we are going with?

Both our candidates are bad on this issue, Hillary should have never supported the bill, Bernie should have never voted for it.

[Uncle Joe]

60. Hillary SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill and Bernie didn't.

Bernie most assuredly supported this.

[Agschmid]

61. Yes I agree about Hillary.

Bernie voted "yea"...

In other words regardless of his speech he supported the bill.

[Uncle Joe]

64. You agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill,

and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?

[Agschmid]

65. I agree that her support of the bill was misguided.

As was Bernie's "yea" vote.

[Uncle Joe]

67. That wasn't my question.

"You agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill, and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?"

[Agschmid]

70. ... and still Bernie voted "yea".

[Uncle Joe]

71. You still haven't answered my question.

Do you agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill, and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?

[Agschmid]

73. ... And Bernie still voted "yea"...

For a bill he knew was flawed, he even gave a speech on how flawed it was.

...

"Yea"

[Uncle Joe]

75. "Yea" what? You agree with my question?

You agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill,

and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?

[Agschmid]

77. No "yea" as in Bernie's vote for the bill...

The whole bill.

[Uncle Joe]

80. The question wasn't about vote it was about support.

You agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill,

and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?

[Agschmid]

83. I've answered it several times.

It's right here in this subthread.

[Uncle Joe]

85. No you haven't

Do you agree that Hillary used racist dog whistle language and that she SUPPORTED the ENTIRE bill, and Bernie reluctantly VOTED for it because of the good aspects; Violence Against Women Act and banning of assault weapons but he didn't SUPPORT the entire bill?

A simple yes or no will do.

[Agschmid]

87. Since we're making demands...

Do you agree that Bernie should have stood up, fought for a clean bill, rather than just voting "yea" on a bill he denounced.

All talk... No real action.

[Uncle Joe]

89. You answer my question first and I will answer yours. n/t

[Agschmid]

91. I don't respond well to demands.

Seems we are at an impasse.

[Uncle Joe]

96. It wasn't a demand, it was a question which I have presented to you multiple times on this thread

I just offered a Quid pro quo.

[Agschmid]

98. Yah I don't do those either...

[Beowulf]

62. You don't do complexity well, do you?

Goodbye!

[Agschmid]

63. And another personal insult.

What else is new.

I guess a "yea" vote means "nah not really"...

[Vattel]

68. There is really no comparison. Clinton was way behind Bernie on this issue. That is obvious.

[Agschmid]

69. And yet he voted "yea".

In a bill he knew was bad.

Really a principled stand... Both our candidates failed us here.

[Vattel]

72. To quote forjusticethunders:

"Bernie Sanders voted AGAINST a 1991 Crime Bill that was mostly focused on mass incarceration and get tough policies.
He repeatedly spoke about the danger of focusing on get tough policy aimed at African Americans, and appealed over and over that government focus on rebuilding urban communities.
In 1994, the bill he voted against came back up for a vote, THIS TIME bundled with the Assault Weapons Ban and the Violence Against Women Act. Essentially a poison pill and Bernie swallowed with reservations. You can criticize him for that, and I think that's fair.

What he DIDNT do, is uncritically stump for the same bill, using language that would have made Nixon blush."

[Agschmid]

74. Yes both our candidates made the wrong decision here.

That's what I've been saying this whole time...

[Vattel]

78. yeah, I get the routine

[Agschmid]

79. It's not a routine...

It's a recorded congressional vote, and a recorded speech in favor of a flawed bill.

[Vattel]

81. chuckle

[Agschmid]

82. "Yea"... That was the recorded vote.

And her speech was also bull.

So again, both our candidates aren't leaders on this issue.

[Vattel]

133. Sanders was a leader on that issue. He argued against mass incarceration.

He voted for the bill because of the good things that were in it and in spite of the bad things that were in it. So the difference between him and Clinton on that issue is huge.

[Agschmid]

135. A leader who voted "yea" for the whole bill.

[Vattel]

136. exactly

[think]

21. Kick & Rec..

[H2O Man]

49. recommended.

Thank you!

[Uncle Joe]

52. Thank you, H2O Man.

Peace to you.

[beam me up scottie]

55. Another kick and a reminder why Bernie eventually voted for it:

[Uncle Joe]

57. Thanks for the addition, beam me up scottie.

[trillion]

66. It was known back then.

There's a lot written on how the laws were changed to help the for profit prisions and continue to be.

I will never believe it's an accident that Bill put in this law and Hillary spoke for it in the face of all kinds of criticism, and then she had for profit prisons in her super pac - the lobbyist for the biggest ones. She's continued to speak for laws helping mass incarcerations up until she started campaigning and she didn't drop the GEO group(big prision lobbyists) until she had to after the Huffington post exposed her in October 2015.

[Jenny_92808]

129. +1

You hit the nail on the head

[autonomous]

76. basic ethics seem like supernatural powers of

prescience in this political climate!

[Agschmid]

84. I know.

Can you believe both our candidates made this bill happen.

[Uncle Joe]

86. That's not true, Bernie tried to improve it, Hillary embraced it. n/t

[Agschmid]

90. Bernie voted "yea" on the bill.

That doesn't sound like trying to improve it.

He denounced it, and then voted "yea".

[Uncle Joe]

93. From my post#18 to you Bernie did try to improve it.

PRESS RELEASE
Sanders Voted for 1994 Crime Bill to Support Assault Weapons Ban, Violence Against Women Provisions
FEBRUARY 25, 2016

FLINT, Mich. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders’ campaign manager on Thursday reiterated the senator’s reasoning for voting in favor of the Clinton administration’s 1994 Crime Bill despite serious reservations. The House version of the bill included a ban on semi-automatic assault weapons. Sanders had supported the ban since 1988. The conference committee version included not only the assault weapons ban but also the Violence Against Women Act provisions. Sanders supported these efforts to protect women.

In Sanders’ statement at the time, he criticized the mass incarceration and death penalty provisions in the bill, saying:

“…it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence.

And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails.

Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance.”

During consideration of the bill, Sanders voted six times to weaken or eliminate the death penalty provisions and voted separately against creating new mandatory minimums. Then-First Lady Hillary Clinton spoke strongly in favor of increased incarceration, labeling at risk youth as “super-predators” who had to be “brought to heel.”

“When this so-called crime bill was being considered, Bernie Sanders criticized its harsh incarceration and death penalty provisions,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’ campaign manager. “Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, resorted to dog whistle politics and dehumanizing language. Bernie was right then and he’s right now. We need to invest in those communities that have been neglected in this country. Poor communities – more often than not, communities of color – deserve the same opportunities and education that other communities have. Bernie Sanders has always known jails and incarceration are not the answer. Nor is heated rhetoric against young people of any race. You can’t throw vulnerable people under the bus just because it’s politically expedient.”

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-voted-for-1994-crime-bill-to-support-assault-weapons-ban-violence-against-women-provisions/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511339700

[Agschmid]

95. And then he voted "yea" on a flawed bill.

He was unable to improve it... Not sure that bodes well for how he will be able to improve all the things he wants...

Who knows, hard to predict.

[beam me up scottie]

99. To save women's lives:

Sorry I realize you don't want to admit it but his DECADES of speaking out against the criminal justice system do MATTER.

[Agschmid]

101. So he compromised.

Got it.

Both our candidates have flawed positions on this bill. It is what it is.

[beam me up scottie]

106. No, one WHOLEHEARTEDLY supported, promoted and SOLD it.

The other fought, tried to change and then only voted for it to save lives.

BIG difference.

Sort of like how Hillary supported, promoted and sold welfare reform, the Defense of Marriage Act and the Iraq war.

Face it, she's consistently been on the wrong side of history time and time again.

And she's still on the wrong side when to comes to the "war" on drugs and death penalty.

I support the progressive.

[Agschmid]

110. The other...

Denounced it, fought the flawed sections... But then voted for the whole thing anyway.

Both are flawed.

[beam me up scottie]

113. The crime bill, welfare reform, DOMA, the Iraq war, death penalty, war on drugs.

Which one is MORE flawed for supporting all of those?

[Agschmid]

115. It's clear where you stand...

It's fine.

I'm going to bed.

[beam me up scottie]

117. Of course you are, that's easier than answering the question.

One candidate is a progressive and the other is a moderate at best.

[Agschmid]

119. Yup that's it. You caught me, I'm going to go to bed to avoid a very productive debate.

Where we agree on nothing, and then go away angry, and still supporting the same candidates.

...

[beam me up scottie]

120. You were the one who said they were flawed now you don't want to discuss degrees.

Like I said, it's easier to run away than face the fact that Bernie was right about this bill and the other issues I mentioned.

[Agschmid]

123. "Run away" aka go to bed.

Oh the new DU.

Such a lovely place.

[beam me up scottie]

125. All you have to do is answer the question.

And this has always been DU, we do nuance here and we back up our opinions - that is if they're worth backing up.

[autonomous]

114. So whats your plan, suck it up and lie about how awesome the bill was?

[Agschmid]

118. And another personal attack (calling me a liar).

Read the subthread I've mentioned several times the bill is/was flawed. And both our candidates were flawed for their respective level of support.

So... There is that.

[Uncle Joe]

100. I don't want to get into political science 101 but a President carries much more influence,

power and sway than being 1 out of 435 members of the House of Representatives.

[Agschmid]

103. It does. (And another personal insult...)

And right now the most influential politician running is Trump. Huge rallies, big endorsement, turning out republicans right and left, brining in new young voters to the Republican Party.

That should be scaring the shit out of us right now.

[Uncle Joe]

107. Trump can't do anything until and unless he becomes elected, it does scare the shit out of me and

that's just another reason to support Bernie, because he stands the best chance of defeating Trump in the G.E.

[Warren DeMontague]

88. Hillary wants to expand the drug war, not end it. And her buddy DWS wants more pot smokers in prison

[Agschmid]

92. If you mean this war on drugs...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/02/hillary-clinton-substance-abuse-plan

I'm down, people are unnecessarily dying everyday because of opiates.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. Leaving aside the fact that every time someone asks her about marijuana legalization in the debates

- not exactly a non-issue, given the numbers of states that have or are likely to legalize- she clumsily "pivots" to heroin addiction, pretty deliberately conflating the two;

let's unpack this thing for a minute. Part and parcel of this expanded "war on opiates" is increased pressure on prescribers NOT to prescribe pain medication; you know, telling the person screaming in pain from bone cancer to try yoga or meditation (cheaper, too!), that sort of thing...

it's taken as a given that making pain meds harder to obtain is a good idea, even though doctors already live in fear of the DEA and as such under-prescribe in many cases. But what all this ignores is that fact- statistically documented- that part of what drives the increase in street opiate use, like heroin, is when prescription pain meds are made more, not less, difficult to obtain.

So you have pain patients- and abusers, to be sure- turning to unregulated street drugs when they can't get prescription meds.

I don't know exactly what the answer is, but I do know that if the choice is between someone somewhere catching an unauthorized buzz or people with legitimate pain needs being forced to suffer "because addicts", I'll side with the pain patients, myself.

I think the answer to addiction and overdoses are treatment on demand through a harm reduction model, preferably, as opposed to the current punitive law enforcement regime we have now.

I recognize that Hillary's plan includes money for treatment, and that's a good thing, although I think it would be better if we focused public moneys more on scientific or secular treatment modalities, as opposed to the faith-based 12 step stuff which overwhelmingly dominates the treatment landscape today.

[Agschmid]

124. Good response, thanks.

[Jenny_92808]

94. What a beautiful heart

Bernie has. Go Bernie!

[Uncle Joe]

109. Bernie does have beautiful heart.

Peace to you, Jenny.

[Jenny_92808]

131. Thank you uncle Joe

My heart swells.

[dchill]

104. K&R! Thanks, Uncle Joe!

[Uncle Joe]

111. Thank you, dchill.

Peace to you.

[dchill]

112. You're welcome!

[LiberalElite]

126. Kick! nt

[madokie]

134. Bernie is spot on with this

never in my lifetime have we had a person of his caliber in government office. The man knows of what he speaks. I like that about him. No one tells Bernie what to say or do

[Uncle Joe]

139. Bernie's lifetime of work has

been speaking truth to power.

Peace to you, madokie.

[Octafish]

137. Funny how that works.

Show the guy telling the truth and people disregard what their own ears and eyes tell them.

Thank you for the excellent OP and thread, Uncle Joe!

[Uncle Joe]

138. It was my pleasure, Octafish.

Peace to you.