NY Times Top Story: Hillary Pushed Obama to Bomb Libya, Leaving It A Failed State & ISIS Haven

[amborin]

This is how Hillary pushed Obama---against his better inclination----to bomb Libya. Part of her neocon perspective, and no doubt influenced by Kissinger, her self-proclaimed role model.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=span-ab-top-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

New York Times Feb 28, 2016


Hllary Clinton's Smart Power and A Dictator's Fall

President Obama was deeply wary of another military venture in a Muslim country. Most of his senior advisers were telling him to stay out. Still, he dispatched Mrs. Clinton to sound out Mr. Jibril, a leader of the Libyan opposition. Their late-night meeting on March 14, 2011, would be the first chance for a top American official to get a sense of whom, exactly, the United States was being asked to support.

In her suite at the Westin, she and Mr. Jibril, a political scientist with a doctorate from the University of Pittsburgh, spoke at length about the fast-moving military situation in Libya. But Mrs. Clinton was clearly also thinking about Iraq, and its hard lessons for American intervention.

The Libya Gamble

An examination of the American intervention in Libya and Hillary Clinton’s role in it.

Did the opposition’s Transitional National Council really represent the whole of a deeply divided country, or just one region? What if Colonel Qaddafi quit, fled or was killed — did they have a plan for what came next?

snip

Mrs. Clinton was won over. Opposition leaders “said all the right things about supporting democracy and inclusivity and building Libyan institutions, providing some hope that we might be able to pull this off,” said Philip H. Gordon, one of her assistant secretaries. “They gave us what we wanted to hear. And you do want to believe.”

Her conviction would be critical in persuading Mr. Obama to join allies in bombing Colonel Qaddafi’s forces.

In fact, Mr. Obama’s defense secretary, Robert M. Gates, would later say that in a “51-49” decision, it was Mrs. Clinton’s support that put the ambivalent president over the line.

The consequences would be more far-reaching than anyone imagined, leaving Libya a failed state and a terrorist haven, a place where the direst answers to Mrs. Clinton’s questions have come to pass.

This is the story of how a woman whose Senate vote for the Iraq war may have doomed her first presidential campaign nonetheless doubled down and pushed for military action in another Muslim country. As she once again seeks the White House, campaigning in part on her experience as the nation’s chief diplomat, an examination of the intervention she championed shows her at what was arguably her moment of greatest influence as secretary of state

snip

Here's what we have in Libya Today:

What We Know About ISIS in Libya

The self-described Islamic State, also known as ISIS, has long been making a push to capitalize on the chaos in Libya.

For over a year, it has carried out terror attacks, taken over territory and released propaganda from its franchise in Libya. Now, a new assessment from the Pentagon states the number of ISIS fighters in Libya has doubled since the fall to over 5,000, spurring fresh debate among security officials over the possibility of foreign intervention.

Analysts and officials worry that Libya is increasingly becoming a sort of fallback option for ISIS as it loses territory and power in Syria and Iraq.

“If we look at the raw numbers, the presence of ISIS is definitely strengthening and growing. I think the security threat they pose is definitely going up,” Riccardo Fabiani, senior North Africa analyst at political risk research firm Eurasia Group, told The WorldPost.

The threat ISIS presents in Libya is different than in other nations, and is related both to the group's changing capabilities and to the country's ongoing instability


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/isis-presence-in-libya_us_56b369e2e4b08069c7a6352f
13

[EdwardBernays]

1. She's also helped ISIS

in Yemen, where here vast weapons deals have been used by SA to kill endless civilians and reinforced al Qaeda and ISIS positions...

[amborin]

11. yes: and look: her campaign Contributions:

New Report of U.S.-Made Cluster Bomb Use by Saudis in Yemen

By RICK GLADSTONEFEB. 14, 2016
The aftermath of a Saudi-led air strike in Sana, Yemen, on Sunday. Credit Khaled Abdullah/Reuters

Human Rights Watch released a report Sunday providing new indications that Saudi Arabia has fired American-made cluster munitions, banned by international treaty, in civilian areas of Yemen, and said their use may also violate United States law.

snip

If confirmed, the report could put new pressure on the United States over support for its ally Saudi Arabia in the Yemen conflict. The Americans have sold arms and furnished training and expertise to a Saudi-led coalition that has faced widespread criticism for what rights groups call an indiscriminate bombing campaign against Yemen’s Houthi rebels in nearly a year of fighting.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/15/world/middleeast/new-report-of-us-made-cluster-bomb-use-by-saudis-in-yemen.html

Critics have previously rapped Clinton for voting in 2006 against Senate Amendment 4882, which would have banned the sale of cluster munitions for use in heavily populated areas

LECTED OFFICIALS AND ACTIVISTS DEMAND CLINTON RETURN DONATIONS FROM ROGUE MILITARY CONTRACTOR
Textron bribed Saddam Hussein’s regime, and manufactures cluster bombs

Providence, RI: Various elected officials and anti-war activists are calling on Hillary Clinton to return campaign contributions from Textron, Inc. Textron is a Rhode Island-headquartered Fortune 500 conglomerate, from whose PAC Clinton took money in 2005 and 2006. Textron bribed the Hussein government during the lead-up to the Iraq war, and is a major manufacturer of cluster bombs, which yield high rates of civilian casualties.

http://providencedailydose.com/2008/02/21/hillary-and-the-arms-industry/

[EdwardBernays]

13. absolutely

just one of many reasons people all over the world are accusing the US of war crimes in Yemen.

Starving millions of women and children doesn't help either.

[SCantiGOP]

32. Is she a traitor or just stupid?

The comments here seem to accuse her of one or the other.

Question: how many making anti-Clinton comments here were immediately and adamantly opposed to any action in Libya? Cause I don't remember a lot of opposition to helping the rebels try to gain control over the fanatics and Gaddafi forces.
Hindsight or just another example of - like the GOP will be doing in the GE - trashing Clinton for any and all of her past actions?

[EdwardBernays]

42. I was against it

Because the US has a long history of making things much worse with its military and intelligence shenanigans.

It also has a long history of propping up dictators...

It has literally zero moral authority..

Ergo it should not be bombing stable countries for "moral reaons". But that's always a lie.

Now is Hillary a traitor?

Probably. But not because she's trying to betray America with her endless corruption... It's just a nasty side effect.

[greymouse]

43. immediately and adamantly opposed

That would be me, SCantiGOP. Because I actually know something about Libya. Anyone who really knew about the country could see that it would be a disaster in the making.

[YOHABLO]

61. No they won't because she won't be running.

[SCantiGOP]

72. Check back in Tuesday night

[bvar22]

100. Here.

I was loudly and regularly OPPOSED to any intervention in the ongoing tribal/civil war in Libya for a list of reasons....but mainly because of the vacuum it would create if Gadaffi were removed, but also because Libya did not and could not threaten us in ANY way.
It was immoral for us to enter that Civil War on the side of the so called "rebels" Al Qaeda affiliated terrorists in East Libya.

You may search the archives if you wish.

[anothergreenbus]

102. Do you care one whit for the millions of innocent people

suffering as a result of this horrific turmoil? Are you so callous that all you can think of is the politics of the Clintons? Like Bush, Hillary is an evil sociopath. And you are going to talk about how persecuted Hillary is? So if we end up holding our noses and having to vote for either a nightmare or a horror show, I honestly can't say what I'll do. You need to try to reconnect with your humanity.

[rhett o rick]

104. What a strange way to try to rationalize her mistake. Is she a traitor? No.

Is she stupid? No. Is she egotistical and power mad? Yes. Does she lack empathy that we expect of a Democrat? Yes. Does she need the world to think of her as TOUGH? Yes.

Heaven help us all if she is pushed into the WH by the Plutocratic Oligarchy.

[SCantiGOP]

106. pushed into the WH by the Plutocratic Oligarchy

Does this square with the fact that she has currently received 2 1/2 million more votes than the other candidate?

[rhett o rick]

107. You guys act as if you are new to politics. The system is rigged.

Propaganda works and the Ruling Class has unlimited wealth to spend on propaganda. And the Ruling Class owns the news outlets and control much of what many Americans see and read.

And you pretend that our election system works. Well it certainly works for the Ruling Class. We have the most corrupt election system of the top 47 modern nations. That corruption is by the Ruling Class and their candidate is Clinton. Goldman-Sachs said himself that the Oligarchy would be happy with either Clinton or Bush. Well Bush is out so they are all behind Clinton.

We can only be pushed so far and then we fight back.

[Jefferson23]

2. Her and Petraeus, yes. Her supporters don't mind, not at all from I have read over the years. n/t

[restorefreedom]

3. hillary:making ISIS what it is today

in iraq, libya, syria, and beyond.....

[FlatBaroque]

4. ANd Obama wants Clinton to succeed him?

[Jefferson23]

6. TPP. n/t

[FangedNoumenom]

85. This. n/t

[Angel Martin]

55. ANd Obama wants Clinton to succeed him?

some of the story sourcing is coming from Biden and others in the Executive branch, so maybe not.

[nichomachus]

80. It's easy. Wall Street wants Hillary

Obama needs Wall Street to feather his nest once he leaves the White House.

He's not going to bite the hand that he wants to feed him.

Look at the millions upon millions of dollars that Wall Street threw at the Clintons since 2001. There is no way Obama is going to jeopardize that windfall.

[Angel Martin]

83. I agree, but Obama is going to cash in regardless.

Bush followed Clinton but it didn't stop the Clintons from winning the "DC Lottery".

[amborin]

108. +1000000

[rhett o rick]

105. Obama answers to a higher pay grade. nm

[BillZBubb]

5. This is all well known already. Hillary supporters JUST DON'T CARE.

She's a neocon war hawk and always has been. Just re-watch her Iraq War Resolution support speech. It is straight right wing, neocon talking points.

And even after the debacle in Iraq and all the crap that has followed from that idiotic invasion, Hillary still pushed the neocon madness in Libya. You would think she would have learned. Apparently she hasn't evolved on that mistake.

This is what the Democratic party has come to?

[cwydro]

7. Y'all are sure feeling the burn today aren't you?

Hillary smoked Bernie.

[FlatBaroque]

15. Thankfully, she will never, ever become President of the United States. /

[BillZBubb]

16. You think the disaster in Libya is FUNNY?

You want to talk about a stupid primary? "My team won! We're number 1! In your face!"

Like I said, you Hillary fanatics JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

[cwydro]

18. Settle down now.

Everything will be ok.

[BillZBubb]

19. Right, funny guy.

[cwydro]

20. I'm a woman lol.

Have a great day now.

[BillZBubb]

21. Oh, a funny woman! Keep on smirking. The dead in Libya salute you.

[greymouse]

44. he smirks, HIllary smirks

at death and torture. Two of a kind.

[grasswire]

59. yeah, never forget Hillary's comment "we came, we saw, he died" nt

[cpwm17]

76. The racism runs deep with that crowd

that's why they couldn't care less about mass-murder.

[PonyUp]

96. As long as you got yours the hell with the rest of the world, huh. n/t

[anothergreenbus]

103. Ah, a genuine sociopath.

Must be serene in your narcissistic bubble.

[polly7]

25. No, it really won't be. Trigger warning for picture of child.

Last edited Tue Mar 1, 2016, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Not for millions, anyway.

[PonyUp]

97. Please post a warning next time. Thank you. n/t

[polly7]

98. There are tens/hundreds of thousands of children dead because of western military

intervention in places we don't have any right to even be in. I wish these casualties would be shown on every news channel ever night. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil - well, we SHOULD see the evil. I understand completely how every mother who's lost a child there feels. Those children, and their families' loss are unimportant enough to be shown everywhere. I wish the warmongers would have to see them daily.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

17. Better to Bern out than fade away?

[peacebird]

79. We came, we saw, he died. If that is a phrase you support, then Hillary is your candidate

Sociopathic neocon warhawk.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

86. I don't mourn Qaddafi.

Not in the least. I'm rather glad he's dead, myself.

[peacebird]

94. I don't mourn him either, but mocking a corpse is unseemly.

[BeanMusical]

38. What a stupid non sequitur.

[nichomachus]

82. Typical snide Hillary Gang response

No facts. No logic. No rebuttal. Just snide putdowns -- just like their queen bee.

[cui bono]

91. Wow, the lack of compassion and depth and world view from some of you Hillary supporters

is astounding.

You know how many lives have been ruined by war? Do you really not comprehend this? Do you know who Kissinger is? The man Hillary looks up to and pals around with?

It's all just a little game to you. A team sport. As long as your team wins it doesn't matter to you what is happening in the world to real people. It doesn't matter that hundreds of thousands of innocent people's lives are lost and ruined because of decisions made by someone you are supporting. It's just so funny!

You seriously make me sick. How disgusting that is. And yet Hillary supporters think simple criticism of someone who did great things in the past is the worst thing ever.

SMH.

.

[appal_jack]

92. Yeah, winning a solidly red state sure is a decisive victory.

Hillary won the SC Democratic Primary fair and square from what I can tell. Congratulations.

Will SC go Democratic in November, whether Hillary or Bernie is in on the ticket? If your answer is "yes," you may want to get your prescriptions checked...

-app

[amborin]

12. yes! it's all well known; also known is that SHE pushed Obama to arm "friendly" rebels in Syria,

part of her neocon regime change agenda. Now ISIS has a huge haven in another failed state, thanks to her horrible
judgement.

[zentrum]

35. Yes, that's very important to

….understand. They don't care. They don't care about neocon foreign policy causing suffering. They don't care about the suffering caused by income disparity or by the TPP or by the Violent Crime Bill that essentially criminalized poverty and poor people.

This is the primary reason thatI, as a woman, find Bernie to be the better feminist.

[kgnu_fan]

8. kick

[TheSarcastinator]

9. ride that little red rocket to the right

She's the Anointed One, after all. Never mind her pro-war, pro-1%, pro-Drug War/prison-industrial complex stance, suckers: what choice are you gonna have?

[AzDar]

14. Somewhere, Henry the K is smiling...

[HooptieWagon]

22. Has there ever been somebody as completely wrong on foreign policy as Hillary?

Her judgement is terrible....she should not be the person answering the 3am phone call.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

23. And yet the Times endorsed her.

[greymouse]

46. The Times is interesting

They endorsed her. They sounded like they think she's qualified, and then they drop this bomb of an extremely well researched detailed piece about the giant disaster she brought on in Libya and that area of the Mediterranean. Almost like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. I'd like to be a spider on the wall in the newsroom today.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

64. They also told her to release her speech transcripts.

[Orange Butterfly]

24. I am deeply concerned about Hillary's War ethics

This is a huge concern that Hillary supports war and wants to push American ideals on the world at all cost.

[jalan48]

26. What experience did Hillary have for the job of Sec. of State? Just asking.

[whereisjustice]

36. Bill Clinton and his money raising skills.

[snagglepuss]

50. She had none. Nada. nt

[jalan48]

53. So the SOS was a resume builder then?

[snagglepuss]

70. Exactly and because Obama didn't want her to primary him in 2012.

[amborin]

99. ^^ this ^^

[HassleCat]

27. I think she has been bragging on this

As I recall, she has been telling people the Libyan intervention was a good thing, an example of her foreign policy mastery.

[peace13]

28. She do love her some war...

...but then all of the Bushes do! W and Bill are brothers...remember!

[notadmblnd]

29. Her supporters don't care- they have no skin in the game

Last edited Sun Feb 28, 2016, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)

it's not like they'd ever sacrifice their children to the Military Industrial Complex. That's for the little people.

[malletgirl02]

66. They love war as long

they aren't the ones fighting it. Hillary supporters think it all a big joke. if you look up thread you see two of her supporters posting laughing smilies responses, that is the type of people you are dealing with. I didn't respond to them, because I would have gotten a hide if I did. I posted yesterday that if Hillary Clinton won the primary and the general election her supporters should have the decency to join the military and help support her wars. I doubt they would join, because they don't care.

[notadmblnd]

68. I probably have them on ignore.

I'm tired of the lather, rinse, repeat bullshit they spew here.

[Lil Missy]

30. *yawn*

[Chakab]

48. Yeah, who cares about her militarism or her corporatism or any of the other illeberal policy

positions that she actually favors when she's not giving lip service to progressive ideals on the campaign trial?

The only that matters is that she gets into office and maintains the status quo, right?

[Loudestlib]

31. "We came, we saw, he died," she joked when told of news reports of Qaddafi's death by an aide in-

between formal interviews."

n/t

[bvar22]

101. Her giggling after that statement was chilling.

CHILLING!

[George II]

33. Hillary Clinton will still win the Democratic nomination and be elected President.

[BeanMusical]

47. I'm sure that the relatives of all the dead women and children in Libya would be pleased.

[whereisjustice]

34. Mission Accomplished. Don't worry, she'll be better as a president...

[amborin]

95. endless war, total chaos, but the MIC happy

[Rafale]

37. Libya et al.

Benghazi was never the real issue and was nothing more than a GOP farce. However, the break up of Libya should have been the real issue, particularly regarding the mistakes of President Bush’s failure in Iraq and President Obama’s poor policy choices in Syria today. All this warmonger has only strengthen the Caliphate and al-Qa’ida, which is much stronger (more people and a wider geospatial area) than on 11 September 2001. We need new leaders.

[Mufaddal]

39. Never met a war or regime change she didn't like

Everybody climb on board the peace tra-- oh, wait, the peace train just got hit by a drone.

[Trust Buster]

40. Geez, straight out of the Republican playbook.

President Obama is Commander and Chief. Only he is ultimately responsible for the decision w/regards to Libya. Why don't you just call the Iraq War "Powell's war" instead of Bush's war while you're at it. I know Bernie supporters want Bernie to win but let's not get ridiculous here.

[Beowulf]

52. So you are saying because PBO followed her advice,

she is absolved of any responsibility?

[snowy owl]

41. Most won't read nor care about the story

That's the sorry state of affairs today in America.

[GoneFishin]

45. Yes, but it's a jackpot for U.S. weapons manufacturers and disaster capitalists.

[silvershadow]

49. K&R.

[fbc]

51. Foreign Policy Experience(tm)

She has it, along with a record of failure.

[AtomicKitten]

87. Exactly. Her foreign policy experience is NOT a plus. It's an unmitigated disaster.

[UglyGreed]

54. Seemed to enjoy the results

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. But..but...as president, this time it will be different...maybe...some day...if the polls show..

No thanks.

[dinkytron]

57. Too bad gun control wasn't rattling around in Hillary's head when she pushed for it.

[EndElectoral]

58. She's never met a war she didn't like...except in Honduras.

[ucrdem]

60. And the NYT cheered loudly every step of the way. nt

[amborin]

62. can you provide cites?

[ucrdem]

65. NYT, Oct. 30, 2011 - "NATO's Success in Libya"

NATO's Success in Libya
IVO H. DAALDER AND JAMES G. STAVRIDIS OCT. 30, 2011

Monday, Oct. 31st, seven months after it started, NATO’s operation in Libya will come to an end. It is the first time NATO has ended an operation it started. And it comes on the heels of an historic victory for the people of Libya who, with NATO’s help, transformed their country from an international pariah into a nation with the potential to become a productive partner with the West.

http://www.independentsentinel.com/ny-times-shamelessly-whitewashes-hillarys-intervention-in-libya/

Yes it's an op-ed and sure to be found inconclusive if not downright deceptive but it perfectly represents the tenor of the NYT reporting before, during and immediately after the US intervention. The Times does this every time there's a Democrat hanging in the balance and it has nothing to do with their official endorsement.

[amborin]

71. but you said it was the NY Times; in any case, now we see the folly and recklessness of her decision

which Biden, Gates, and so many, many others opposed at the time. THEY had wisdom and good judgement; not Hillary

[ucrdem]

73. It was. Are you seriously suggesting NYT has ever NOT strongly supported a US intervention?

[amborin]

77. LOL! like Hillary, NY Times supported the disastrous Iraq invasion and it deceived readers

[ucrdem]

81. This isn't exactly news, so why two days before Super Tuesday?

See what I mean now?

[Carlo Marx]

63. Hillary and her zombie surrogates response to younger people's near unanimous rejection of her:

"They just don't know her or her record!" They know enough, and if they only knew they entirety of it. I think she fits the clinical definition of psychopath. Her husband is even worse. The sanctions against Iraq in the 90s were responsible for the deaths of over 500,000 children.

[raouldukelives]

93. Sickening, isn't it? nt

[moondust]

67. No doubt there were others more qualified to be SOS.

As far as I know, Hillary speaks no foreign languages and had no particular background in international diplomacy before being named SOS.

If I had to guess I would probably speculate that Obama chose her for two main reasons:

1. Unite a divided party that after a testy campaign included PUMAs and other die-hard Hillary fans.
2. The Clinton name was known around the world from the Clinton Presidency that saw relatively good relations with allies and NO BIG WARS. Naming Clinton was an instant signal to "Old Europe" and others that things were all different now that Bushco was gone. Instant patchwork.

I think there's some chance that Hillary demanded the SOS job in exchange for the Clintons' ongoing support of his administration and its policies.

[dchill]

69. K&R

[jillan]

74. The crazy thing will be Trump is to the left of

Her on foreign policy. Heaven help us if those two are our choices in November.

[ucrdem]

75. If it's Trump Hillary will shut him down in seconds flat.

Rubio and Cruz can't do it right cuz they need his supporters and they're co-conspirators in his crazy party.

[Uncle Joe]

78. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, amborin.

[Octafish]

84. She had no choice.

It was all she knew.



"We came. We saw. He died."

Hah. Hah. It is to laugh.

[thereismore]

88. She is dangerous and incompetent. That's putting it charitably.

She's dead inside.

[Lorien]

89. But we don't want her as our President because of her gender

and bringing up her hawkish ways is oh so sexist.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. "she'd rather be caught trying"- unfortunately that doesn't seem to apply to Domestic policy.

History shows she seems inclined to drag her feet- if not outright oppose- everything from marriage equality to pot legalization.