2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDemocratic Divide Not About Clinton VS Bernie Sanders. Hillary Can Not Unite the General
Start acting on policy and principle rather than by party.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
daleanime
(17,796 posts)or later and not peaceful?
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Happenstance24
(193 posts)My team could win the Superbowl every year...if only they could get to the Superbowl. We heard this same thing 8 years ago from Clinton's fans at the time and guess what came out of it......a big fat nothing burger. While it is really too far out to predict ANYTHING definitively, when you throw in the fact that a racist joke like Trump will be the competition I'd put my last dime on #NeverTrump everytime.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Happenstance24
(193 posts)Anyone who could seriously conflate the 2 in any way need their eyes and head examined. Could any of these Hillary haters ACTUALLY picture her wanting to kick out Hispanics and Muslims? Give me a break. I though Obama Delusion Syndrome on the right was bad, but the Clinton Delusion Syndrome of some on the left is creeping up to similar proportions.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Happenstance24
(193 posts)favor a racist like Trump? WTF is going on here?
That was a BIG leap!
Happenstance24
(193 posts)What did I miss? If you think Hillary is the same as Trump are you not accusing her of being a racist too since that is literally the ONLY thing Trump has run on. I fail to see how their names could be used in the same sentence to be totally honest.
marew
(1,588 posts)YOU are the one who jumped to the very extreme comment "If you think Hillary is the same as Trump are you not accusing her of being a racist too" Not at all! No one said they are EXACTLY the same! Where did you get that? But they both have their different poisons and very severe character flaws.
Not exactly a deep thinker, are you?
marew
(1,588 posts)The Traveler
(5,632 posts)But we do accept the results of the Princeton study that demonstrate America functions as an oligarchy. And while Ms Clinton would certainly be a more sane and merciful manager of government on behalf of that oligarchy than any Republican, there are those of us who find that insufficient.
You speak of Hillary hate ... but you make no attempt to address the elephant in the room issue. Instead, you raise a false one ... no. We're not expecting her to kick out Latinos and Latinos. What we DO expect of her is more of the same creeping corporatism we've gotten for 25 years or more. And we oppose that.
Trav
marew
(1,588 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
daleanime
(17,796 posts)who hasn't met a war she didn't like.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Right now it's divided between Sanders and Trump but you can be certain that in the general it will go to the anti-establishment candidate.
The people are sick and tired of corrupt, nonresponsive government and the corporate cronyism that thrives in the absence of actual public service by our public servants. It betrays everything America is supposed to stand for.
HRC, being the physical embodiment of that phenomenon, will not get Sanders voters. They will either defect or stay home.
Happenstance24
(193 posts)instead of Hillary? If so then we NEED to lose this election if only to kick those elements out of the Dem party. This isn't a party of bigots. Trump can have every last one of them.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)This is a "throw off the chains" election. Issues are completely irrelevant.
All that matters is that the people broadly believe that their government has been stolen from them, and after decade after decade of playing fair trying to get it back and having the dirtiest tricks imaginable employed every time to prevent that from happening, they don't care anymore.
The people just want our government back. And if they have to elect a Beelzebub/Mephisto ticket to do that, they're going to do that.
You want to blame someone, blame the people who did all they could to suppress the voice of the people all these years. Don't blame the voters who have been forced into bad choices.
There were plenty of sane options over the years, options that could have headed off the current situation. All of them were destroyed by the establishment machine.
The only option left to the people is to destroy the establishment machine, because nothing can improve until that end is met.
coyote
(1,561 posts)As opposed to a corrupt establishment politician that will say anything to get elected? Great choice. If Hillary gets nominated, I am sitting this one out.
marew
(1,588 posts)As are countless more... Hillary earned her reputation for dishonesty!
Lorien
(31,935 posts)would rather vote for her than HRC. HRC has done far too much damage to ever have a prayer of uniting the party. Besides, her supporters have been cheering the Clinton's "brilliance" for urging Drumpf to run, and now they're attempting to scare us into voting for her because the alternative is her nutjob friend that she and her husband urged to run? Who the hell is really falling for this??
Happenstance24
(193 posts)is why we fail. Forget about the Supreme Court, did ya? You know, the one and only thing that can REALLY bring about the change you claim to want. A president won't end Citizens United, the SC will. Typical. We're playing checkers while the right is playing chess.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)is bad.
Happenstance24
(193 posts)Vote your conscience after we secure the supreme court for the next 30 years. You think Citizen United was bad, imagine that on steroids if Pugs get a solid conservative majority. Things can always get worse....much worse.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)...I'll vote my conscience now.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Trump started to mull a run in 1988... I suspect, and unless either of the two men talk to an enterprising reporter on this subject (yes pigs fly, hell freezes over), or they write it in a memoir, better chance, that Clinton tried to keep him FROM RUNNING.
I am not going to defend bill, but one thing he does have are still sone keen political instincts. Though there is always a chance that he, and his advisors, have missed fully the anger of the american people and how a populist right would be appealing.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)8 years ago it was not a base revolt, This is a very different animal.
fredamae
(4,458 posts)remember this old and well circulated-but always a good reminder - especially Now ..video
The DFH .... Were Right
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)thinner and thinner even against an obvious charlatan.
And although I'll have to watch this later, I agree with your editorial comment . Which is why we need a real workers party to stand up without any qualification, for the interests of the workers and the oppressed. You can't waffle about being on the side of both the worker and the side of the boss like the Democratic Party has. You have to choose which side you are on.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Didn't think so
Lorien
(31,935 posts)never will. She says what many of us have been thinking for a long time. We're DONE playing this game!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I'm a math major and what you say is in the numbers. . .
That is, they keep doing the same thing and it isn't getting better, well, at least for us.
The American workers have had stagnant wages for almost 40 years. OK
Here's the kicker, we have had 16 YEARS of Democratic Presidents in the last 24 years. Did they change that trend. Not in the least. So their "incrementalism" didn't do anything.
In the last quarter of a century, we gave the Democratic Party a good chance to show us what they had. . . .they didn't get 'er done for us.
The Republicans are worse.
So we need to totally commit to this one guy with the half century record of doing the right thing.
Go Bernie.