Spread the word to everyone in Michigan that Hillary lied about Bernie's vote on the auto bailout!

[reformist2]

They used to say that a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth even gets its shoes on...

But in the age of the internet, let's prove that old saying false!

If we can get a nasty Rovian tactcic like this to blow up in their faces in just a couple of days, it would be a thing of beauty.

[elleng]

1. Yes. Post this in Michigan.

and not necessary to say 'lied,' as maybe inflammatory for some, but find a clear explanation. (NOT too easy, I'm afraid.)

[Scootaloo]

2. Agreed

"She lied!" immediately puts a person on the defensive. They might have no investment in either candidate, but few people enjoy beign drawn into a confrontation so blatantly.

"Hillary Clinton said X. But the fact of the matter is Y...' is a MUCH better approach. The person you're speaking to is a smart man or woman, they can tel la lie when they see the facts.

[senz]

7. One could also say, "misled."

Welcome back! You were missed.

[Scootaloo]

9. oh, i'm sure not everyone missed me!

Thanks, though

[Hydra]

3. My shoes are on. n/t

[CajunBlazer]

4. So how fast does a half truth travel?

Bernie voted against the auto bailout when it counted. He voted against the bill which actually furnished the money.

Besides I wouldn't bother - 2 recent polls (3/1 & 3/5) of Michigan had Clinton ahead by 26% and a projection from Nate Silver gives Clinton a 99% chance of winning Michigan, and this was before the Michigan debate.

[ucrdem]

5. Exactly.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2008/10/01/wall-street-bailout

[Qutzupalotl]

6. He voted for it when it was by itself, so that's a truer indication of his position.

Bailing out Wall Street was the deal-breaker. I'm good with that. He explained it well today on Fox.

[Lucinda]

11. He voted against it when it mattered.

There is no lie there.

[Qutzupalotl]

12. It's completely disingenuous.

Designed to mislead. Is that what you've been reduced to?

[Lucinda]

14. No it isnt. He made a choice, and that choice has consequences.

What is misleading is his trying to deflect from the fact that he didn't vote for funds in the version that passed.

[Qutzupalotl]

15. Because you make it sound like he didn't vote for the auto bailout when he did.

So your statement is carefully worded to mislead.

[CajunBlazer]

16. We are again reduced to discussing half truths

Sanders voted for a version of the auto bail out bill which did not pass.

When when the auto bail out provision came up as part of the larger bail out bill which did which did pass and provided the big three with loans which allowed them to survive along with the rest of the auto industry, he voted against that bill.

Had a majority of the Senate members voted as Bernie did, the auto industry in the US would have failed. So when it counted, Bernie voted against the auto bailout.

And there something far more important here that neither Bernie or Hillary are talking about because they don't want to upset their fellow Democrats - had the entire bail out bill which Bernie voted against failed to pass, the country would have been thrown into a depression that might well have been worse than the great depression of the 1930's.

It isn't just me saying that, though I have a good background in economics; the same has been said by almost every major economist from the most liberal to the most conservative. Yes, some of those companies saved were those that cause the problems in the first place, and I hated that, but it had to be done. Money for business loans (and personal loans) had completely dried up. Most small and middle size businesses rely on lines of credit to pay their employees and stay in business until they are paid for jobs completed. Without access to business loans most would have had to declare bankruptcy. The economy would have gone into a downward spiral. The bailout bill got the money flowing again, but it still took the country seven years to recover and it isn't totally there yet.

So, Sanders, with his total dislike for big corporations and especially those that caused the problem, acted voted to put the US and the rest of the world into a depression. Rather short sighted, wouldn't you say.

[Lucinda]

17. He didn't vote for it on the final bill that passed. Not sure how you can spin that. n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

19. It's not like he changed his mind.

He voted for and supported the auto bailout. To imply otherwise is spinning.

[Lucinda]

20. No. To say he voted for the version that passed when he didn't is what is spinning.

He made a choice, and that choice is now having consequences. He did NOT vote for the bill that passed.

[Qutzupalotl]

21. I'm not saying that.

But you are deliberately misinforming voters by creating the impression that he did not support the auto bailout. He did.

He voted against TARP, as did many of his colleagues.

[Lucinda]

22. He didn't support it when it counted. And I'm pretty sure you know that. n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

23. It counted when he voted on it as a standalone!

The question is, what does he believe? He showed you when he voted for it as a standalone.

To paint him as someone against the auto bailout is a lie.

[Mufaddal]

24. Except nobody knew when it counted

Hence why FactCheck and a number of other sources--including some senate Dems--have called her out on this:

It’s true as Clinton said that she voted to release the money, and Sanders voted to block it. And ultimately, the Obama administration disbursed nearly $80 billion to General Motors, Chrysler Corp. and others in the auto industry (all but $9.3 billion of which was eventually paid back).

But at the time of the vote, it was by no means clear that Obama would use more than one-fifth of the $350 billion for an auto bailout. And most of the money still went for the bank bailouts that Sanders opposed.

So Clinton’s claim that her Jan. 15, 2009, vote was “to save the auto industry” is — to be charitable — quite a stretch.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/03/factchecking-the-seventh-democratic-debate/

Go back and look at her actual statement about the bailout when it passed and earlier and you won't find anything about the auto industry. Just bailing out Wall St.

Of course, he could have voted for the Wall St. bailout... But would that end racism?

[senz]

8. Complexity often works in the favor of liars and deceivers.

Cheerful thought, I'm sure.

[Scootaloo]

10. I dunno.

Apparently faster than it takes to get PPR'd for an egregious ToS violation.

[tonedevil]

13. Of course you wouldn't bother...

you support Secretary Clinton. As a Senator Sanders supporter I can't tell you how much I appreciate your "concern" mostly because I don't.

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. Have been doing just that.

Bernie's been doing the right thing forever, including on the standalone Auto Bailout, which he voted for as Hillary knows full well.

She didn't happen to mention whether she voted for that bill though, did she? I wonder why? She usually takes credit for everything she can.

She voted for TARP, which was a blank check BANK BAILOUT. Of course. Some of that giant slush fund ended up being used for the auto bailout after the bill for it failed. That is no support for the auto industry by Clinton. At best, she did it accidentally while supporting her bankers.

[reformist2]

25. Could it be that the internet has immunized the public against stupid Rovian tactics??? I think so!!

In another day and age, many voters would have been swayed by Hillary's 11th hour smear of Bernie's stance on saving the auto industry.

But in this day and age, it didn't work. It may have even backfired.

[merrily]

26. Why politicians lie:

A study showed that people tend to believe the first version of a story they hear or read.*

A later retraction or correction will make the impression left by the original lie stronger.


This was something I've noticed all my life. I hate being gossiped about behind my back. So, under the golden rule, I didn't gossip about anyone who is not present. This meant my version of a story was never the first one anyone heard. Happened at high school; happened at work. Often made things suck. Proud to say I still didn't/don't talk poorly about anyone who is not present to defend himself or herself.