Bernie Supporters should issue an ultimatum to Hillary: Apologize for your lies NOW, or else...

[reformist2]

...or else, you know perfectly well what. We will withhold our support for you. Apologizing at the convention will be too late.

[JaneyVee]

1. What was the lie?

[Svafa]

8. That he didn't support the auto bailout, is what I assume the OP is referring to.

Clinton knew fully Sanders supported the bailout as it was originally conceived, as just a bailout for the auto industry, but opposed it when it was rolled into the TARP, which bailed out the banks responsible for the economic collapse.

[JaneyVee]

11. Right, thats how govt works. Did he vote for...

The final bill which rescued the auto industry? Its a yes or no answer.

Sure, he supported an auto bailout, right up until he didnt.

[Svafa]

18. He always supported the

auto bailout, but understandably could not stomach the bank bailout. Both he and Clinton voted for it when it was just the auto industry bailout, but only one felt like it was ok to also throw billions of dollars to the poor banks that absolutely destroyed our economy. In the debate Clinton made it seem as though he opposed the auto bailout, not the bank bailout, which is a bold-faced lie. He supported the auto industry bailout but not the TARP as it was written. But of course we should expect no less weaseling from camp Clinton.

[metroins]

20. The vote that funded the bailout: Nay

It's just like how GWB misrepresented the Iraq war.

You vote how you vote and Bernie's vote on the bill that ultimately funded the bailout was Nay.

[JaneyVee]

24. Sorry, but in a representative govt...

Sometimes you gotta give and take for the greater good. So no, he didnt actually vote for the final bill that helped rescue the auto industry.

[Svafa]

28. Yes, and I agree with Sanders that the greater good was not served

by bailing out the banks. No, he did not vote for the final bill, but if the bank bullshit had no been added to it, there is no doubt that he would have supported the auto industry bailout. Clinton insinuating otherwise is disingenuous. But I guess that should come as a surprise to no one; that is how the Clintons roll.

[JaneyVee]

50. So then he has to own his final vote.

Ya know, take responsibility.

[Svafa]

54. His final vote, which he does take responsibility for,

had nothing to do with the auto industry, as Clinton and her fans insinuate, and everything to do with the banks.

[JaneyVee]

58. Oh jeez. Govt bills are NEVER EVER about one thing.

Both sides add amendments. Its called compromise, or ya know, representative democracy.

[Svafa]

60. Why do Hillary and her supporters have such a hard time understanding that concept

when it comes to the Brady Bill?

[JaneyVee]

64. Or Bernie and his fans when...

"Obama cut food stamps!"....yeah, because the alternative was a govt shutdown.

This highlights why someone who cant nuance shouldnt be president.

Presidents are handed choices based on legislation written by both parties and must choose the greater good. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship.

[Svafa]

67. "Waffling" after it's been through the Clinton spin machine becomes "nuance." Got it.

And you don't think that someone who has served in congress for decades understands the process and how things work?

[JaneyVee]

70. There's a reason none of his colleagues endorsed him.

He is strictly an ideologue who doesnt do nuance. I thought thats why his fans liked him so much.

[Svafa]

75. The fact that none of his colleagues has endorsed him is just a prime example of party politics and

nothing else.

[CorkySt.Clair]

90. Bernie fans don't do nuance

It's Bernie or bust.

[politicaljunkie41910]

93. Hindsight is always 20/20. As an Independent, Bernie had a habit of voting against things that

are unpopular, when there were enough votes for passage. You know that 'principle pious thingy'. No one wanted to bail out the banks but no one knew what would happen to our entire financial system had there not been a bail out. And no one had a lot of time to sit around for a year and debate it, like Congress usually does. I have more respect for those who take a stand on behalf of the nation and its people and are wrong than someone who stands on principle and is right, while risking nothing.

[grasswire]

91. it was not mentioned in the TARP bailout.

He did not vote against a bill that specifically mentioned the auto bailout. The TARP money was a lump sum, and Obama allocated part of it to the auto industry. When Bernie voted against it, nothing in it mentioned bailing out the auto industry.

[JRLeft]

30. It's a lie but it's good politics. I cannot get mad over that.

[JaneyVee]

53. Did he support the final bill that bailed out auto industry?

Its yes or no.

[JRLeft]

61. The final bill did not mention the auto bailout at all. It was

was a blank check for the banks without conditions. Obama would later use some of the bailout money for the auto industry. So the answer is no.

[JaneyVee]

68. Nope.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/07/hillary-clinton/michigan-hillary-clinton-says-bernie-sanders-was-a/

[noiretextatique]

79. Apparently, Michigan voters thought differently eom

[djean111]

2. As a Bernie supporter - Hillary would just laugh and double down on the lies.

It is what she is, it is what she does.

[yourpaljoey]

3. I like it

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. I agree completely. She's a back stabber. All bets are off.

[jcgoldie]

5. Good thinking

Apologize for our imagined slights or we'll show you by tacitly electing president Trump... brilliant!

[Kelvin Mace]

6. Nobody has time for that

We would be issuing ultimatums hourly.

[Jefferson23]

52. lol

[TM99]

7. She wouldn't care.

They believe that the SD"s, the establishment elite, and a lot of SuperPAC money is all they need to win both the primary and the general. Well, that and a lot of Brockian rat-fucking too!

But they are in for a rude awakening I surely believe.

[Gwhittey]

14. Brockian rat-fucking

Ha that not going to win in the GE when you have Rove rat-fucking. Most of country though a guy who faught in Vietnam was more of coward then someone who road a desk in Texas during the war.

[TM99]

66. If rat-fucking didn't work

no one would do it.

Clinton through Brock has learned from the best.

[tokenlib]

9. Too late...Hillary is beyond redemption...n/t

[peacebird]

12. Truth.

[840high]

89. yes

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. Good luck with that

and if you refuse to vote for Hillary in the GE (if she wins the primary) and Trump (or any of the Republicans that are running- pick your poison), then I hope that you will be able to live with yourselves and everything that comes along with a harsh right-wing Presidency for (at least) the next 4 years.

[peacebird]

16. I can live with myself. I will never vote for Hillary.

[Svafa]

31. Any of the Republicans running...

The only one Clinton can beat is Trump. If it's a Clinton/Cruz matchup, we are doomed.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

42. Yeah because Cruz is amazingly better than Trump

Choose your poison. All of the Republicans are toxic but most people haven't gotten to know most of them well so far. That will change once the GE begins and our nominee starts digging their grave. Why exactly would people vote for Cruz over Hillary? Cruz is a religious zealot nutball. Hillary is sane and smart. Most people should be able to figure that out AT LEAST.

[Svafa]

51. Cruz is just as horrible as Drumpf. Maybe more so.

My point was that, if Clinton is nominated, she fares ok up against Drumpf, but polls have her losing to any of the other candidates. I have no idea why anyone would vote for Cruz over anyone, but apparently there are people out there who would.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/01/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-poll/

[Proud Liberal Dem]

63. Those polls are too early to be taken much seriously IMHO

Once the nominees are selected, people will *really* get to know Cruz and IMHO they won't like him much (if they don't run for the hills). The only Republicans that I would be concerned about much going up against Hillary (or Bernie) would be somebody like Kasich or even maybe Rubio since they have a more "moderate" veneer even though we all know that they are just as bad ideologically as the rest of the crowd. At the moment, however, it doesn't appear that either of them are in danger of winning the GOP nomination. I'm not particularly worried about either candidate's chances against Cruz or Trump once the GE starts.

[RufusTFirefly]

32. Still trying to bring us to heel, eh?

Good luck with that!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

37. Nobody's trying to "bring you to heel"

OP is threatening to refuse to vote if Hillary is the nominee, which make it easier for Trump, et. al to win in the GE. Anybody seriously want that?

[RufusTFirefly]

39. Sorry. Let me rephrase: Vote for Hillary. Or else. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

46. "Or else" is pretty bad if we're talking the GE

I'm not telling you how to vote in the primaries, however. I'll gladly vote for Bernie if he's the nominee. I'll be damned if my own personal actions/inaction lets a Republican into the WH. Some other people feel differently.

[leftynyc]

38. I'll settle for them

staying away from DU in fear of getting banned.

[pinebox]

80. I can live with myself

The question is can you with supporting the weakest candidate in a general who will lose to a Republican.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

84. There is no absolute proof that she will lose

You (and others) believe that will happen after looking at a couple of hypothetical match up polls. That MAY happen but it also may not. Won't really get a good idea until we actually get to the GE.

[pinebox]

85. And there is no absolute proof she will win either

See how that works?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

86. No absolute proof Bernie will win either.

So, where does that leave us?

[pinebox]

88. Where does that leave us?

Royally screwed.

[DebDoo]

82. Hillary did it to herself

If Hillary stopped her bullying, underhanded ways and won a fairly fought race we could stomach the idea of voting for her. Don't blame Bernie supporters for standing up for our principles, blame Hillary for having the wrong ones.

Besides, Hillary understands: "sometimes you gotta make tough choices". Now she has to learn that eventually you gotta live with the tough consequences

[Proud Liberal Dem]

83. So punish the country for her "mistakes"?

[zappaman]

13. LOL!!!!!

[Lorien]

15. I won't hold my breath. They really don't want our votes.

I think deep down they know that she can't win the general, but being perpetual victims is enticing to them, so they continue this suicidal mission.

[JudyM]

17. If she did, would it matter? Anything to win.

[BernieforPres2016]

19. The heck with apologies

I wish Bernie would go to nuclear war with her but that's not in his personality.

[randome]

21. What she said is, at best, kinda-sorta true.

You can get all up in everyone's face about it but in the end it's a pretty mild statement from one campaign opponent to another.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hoyt]

22. When Sanders apologize for his supporters slamming everyone from Lewis, Clyburn to Warren, and any

good Democrat that endorsed Clinton.

[giftedgirl77]

23. Right, like you all were going to vote for her anyways.

[obamanut2012]

25. lolz

[Lizzie Poppet]

26. She'll only do that if she thinks she needs us in November.

And it won't be worth a fart in a gale...

[redstateblues]

27. It's not a lie. Bernie voted against

The final bill that saved the auto industry.

[Starry Messenger]

29. You guys wanted more debates, I recall.

[Wilms]

35. It was an oversight.

The demand should have been for debates where Clinton doesn't lie.

But then there definitely would have been no debates added.

[Starry Messenger]

41. If your guy wasn't prepared to discuss his votes, that's too bad.

No lie, he voted against the bailout funding. If he thought he'd be challenged on it, he should have come up with his answer for the debate.

[Wilms]

45. Tell that to the Dem Senators who are pretty annoyed with HRC right now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511445013

[Starry Messenger]

47. FORMER Senator Bayh.

Found out how popular that stance was with his constituents.

[Wilms]

73. Meaning??

Meanwhile, both he and Wyden, who is also unhappy ARE Clinton 2016 endorsers. Uhm...make the endorsers with integrity.

Go on. I understand that it's just another ClintonSpin Day in America. I'm used to it.

[riversedge]

72. That was his choice. He can say he was for the auto bailout at one point, but that was before he was

You could argue that the effort to slash funding for TARP in January 2009 was really just a protest vote against the design of the program, as other Democrats have said. And admittedly, TARP evolved over the months as federal officials moved away from the original idea of buying up bad bank assets and found more efficient, less costly ways to shore up the financial industry and ease the credit crunch.

But again, protest votes are easy. Coming up with workable policy is hard, and Congress didn't have the luxury of time in those days. Perhaps Sanders has forgotten how dire things were after Lehman Bros. failed and AIG, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac all cratered. The economy was sinking fast, dragged down by a financial sector that had lost its ability to price risk and lend money.

Candidates often get torn apart in campaigns for supporting this or that compromise, as their opponents invariably focus on the less savory elements of the package and ignore the overarching reasons to vote for the thing. Here, Clinton is blasting Sanders for the opposite reason: He opposed a compromise that included something widely viewed by Democrats as a good idea (the auto bailout) because other elements of the package were less savory to his anti-Wall Street worldview.

That was his choice. He can say he was for the auto bailout at one point, but that was before he was against it.


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-sanders-auto-bailout-20160307-story.html

[Wilms]

74. Problem is, I never bought that argument.

But others can in line and toe it. That's their choice.

[SunSeeker]

40. LOL

[seekthetruth]

33. Sorry.......

Just can't support someone who has no problem with enabling humankind-induced earthquakes in Oklahoma by fracking the shit out of our Mother Earth.

[bobbobbins01]

34. Nah, I'll just stick with Bernie.

She's gone past the point of no return. She can apologize at the convention when she passes the torch on to our nominee, then retire gracefully.

[Ino]

77. She doesn't have a torch to pass

She's just a civilian, a former this-n-that.

[Peregrine Took]

36. Good idea. Admit it - you will feel better. n/t

[NCTraveler]

43. This is simply funny.

Apologize or else.

[Cali_Democrat]

48. LOL

I laughed.

[cyberswede]

49. We should no no such thing.

Threats and ultimatums are silly.

[Blue_Adept]

55. No

Man, more childishness. Petulance all around. Some of this is starting to make some of the louder PUMA members come across as reasonable.

[hack89]

56. As a parent, I learned a long time ago how to deal with temper tantrums. nt

[salinsky]

57. The same people getting their panties in a twist over "loyalty oaths" ....

.... are perfectly OK with blackmail.

[SamKnause]

59. Too late.

She has told too many lies.

Numerous videos show her telling lie after lie.

They have been posted repeatedly.

Her supporters on this site DO NOT CARE !!!

They are informed and they still DO NOT CARE !!!

[itsrobert]

62. Bernie blew bailout barb

All Bernie had to do is address the voters during the debate on why he did not vote for the auto bailout funds. It was true he did not vote for it when it counted to the millions who work in the American auto industry and it's supply chain.

Bernie flubbed it, he was not prepared. Hillary has been addressing that Politics is liking making sausage. You have to give and take.

Bernie rather stand on principle while jobs were in danger and the life of the American Auto industry hung in the balance.

[Jefferson23]

65. You have to laugh at how her lying is non negotiable. lol

Interesting thread, thanks. I recommended it for the Clinton supporters responses.

[riversedge]

69. LOL

[pinebox]

81. lol

[winter is coming]

71. What would be the point? Would you believe her apology? n/t

[SMC22307]

76. Nah. Her lies will be her own undoing.

And I'm going to enjoy watching it.

[delrem]

78. Nah. You can't speak for "Bernie Supporters" like that, putting "Supporters" in caps,

like that.

I won't accept that.

[EndElectoral]

87. The Michigan voters pretty much did vote on that ultimatum.

[Ferd Berfel]

92. ...or the kitty gets it