2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumOfficial Democratic Debate Thread for ALL US NICE PEOPLE (on CNN and Univision PART 2 )
Let's keep it clean folks!!
Thread #1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1457769
Let's be nice AGAIN. I'm really proud of you guys for setting aside the sniping and watching together.
I think it will be a great night for both Bernie and Hillary!
The debate begins at 9 p.m. Eastern and will be shown on Univision, CNN International and Fusion.
Online
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democratic-debate-in-miami-clinton-sanders-face-off-after-michigan-surprise/2016/03/09/92b73322-e601-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html
There are also plenty of free options to view the debate online, with the websites of Univision, CNN, The Washington Post and Fusion streaming it live.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Complete waste of the next two to five minutes. Time for a bathroom break.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)that poor mom was manipulated by RW assholes.
nolabear
(41,990 posts)Maybe if she bled out on the floor they'd be happy.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)(his daughter is working on her campaign)
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Well done.
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Trump? Benghazi? Maybe they are planning to do a little bit of everything? I dunno.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)At least the breaks are in Spanish.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)instead of a putrid kiddy food fight and penis competition.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)That had to hurt
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Name one war or U.S. intervention since 1992 that Clinton has opposed. Heck, name one for which she did not cheerlead.
nolabear
(41,990 posts)And Bernie getting testier. What an interesting dance.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)I would have also groaned. Wait, I did, at home.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It sounds like a sharp crowd to me
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Coincidence
(98 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Hillary seems much less forced than she has previously.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)She's good when she lets loose like that.
I also liked that she acknowledged that shes not the natural politician that Bill or Obama are. When she does stuff like that she actually is more of one, ironically.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)about Marcia Clark, what a fine line she had to walk to be "likable" and how it fucked with her head to be distracted thinking about that. Every working woman has been through that shit.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I do think some of HRC's issues on the stump, etc. are not based upon gendered expectations - i think Al Gore shares some of the exact same weaknesses- but i acknowledge im not coming into the question with the personal experience.
Since Hillary is the first real female contender for a major party nomination, we will probably need a bigger sample size before we can say how much is which.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I guess that want to cram a lot in during the next 24 minutes. Damn, they are all over the place.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Why doesn't Sanders say THAT?
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)...regardless of income'
I love that.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)THANK YOU!
flamingdem
(39,314 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It is part of his stump speech.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)renate
(13,776 posts)That was pretty rude. I like the way this thread is staying positive but I didn't care for the way she kept on going AND acted offended that he tried to take his turn.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)mostly because she refuses to stop.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)more? I guess not. That was a shit show. I'd rather they both get to finish their sentences, so.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)This is the only debate being done in Spanish.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)the others- more like they are both doing speeches instead of really engaging each other.
bklyncowgirl
(7,960 posts)I think I'm getting drunk.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Who else has the guts to say that?
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)flamingdem
(39,314 posts)and that pols won't call them out - due to you know
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)She's losing it.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)I'm still supporting Hillary for V-P.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)We were trained to use the male gender by our English teachers.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)getting tired of watching that red line poke Hillary in the ear, over and over?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)laruemtt
(3,992 posts)but now that you mention it, I just wish it would be lower and go to her mouth to shut her up when she's doing one of her monologues.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)DangerousRhythm
(2,916 posts)I'm really enjoying the loud, enthusiastic reactions to all of the good ideas being presented here. They really seem to love Bernie, too. This is exciting!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I don't get her angles tonight.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)the stuff about how he's not loyal enough to B. Clinton and Obama.
Just rip on Wall Street - revolving door is bipartisan and eternal, policy has been consistent, the disaster is self-evident.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)It is really isn't pretty.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)About the contrast between Clinton and Bush administrations.
She didn't address the question directly.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)malos modales
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)I wish he would link supporting alternate energy with improving infrastructure.
Awhile back, Oregon was generating much more energy than they anticipated through wind power, so much that the old infrastructure couldn't handle it.
Need to upgrade that infrastructure to maximize use of new, clean energy.
Would lead to jobs as well.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)When we come back, Clinton will roll out her red-baiting strategy.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I missed the Fox Town Hall.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)He did very well.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)My bad.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I thought I should look it up when I heard Hillary say Bernie opposed it, and he looked at her incredulously.
http://legal-planet.org/2016/02/26/bernie-sanders-position-on-the-clean-power-plan/
The odds of getting a carbon tax through Congress dont seem high. But as President, Sanders would have executive authority to make changes to the currently finalized Clean Power Plan, presumably by withdrawing it, reissuing a new proposed rule, putting it through the required notice and comment period and then finalizing it in response to the comments. Its an interesting position for Sanders to take: on the one hand, he wants to make the Clean Power Plan more ambitious. Being more ambitious on climate policy than President Obama and, presumably, than Hilary Clinton (who has said shell defend the Clean Power Plan), is a not surprising strategy for him (and makes clear that he s not a single issue candidate). But the strategy also raises pretty starkly the dilemma raised by a strategy that elevates principle over pragmatism. Revising the Clean Power Plan would cause significant delay in its implementation simply because of the procedural requirements of notice and comment (ignoring for a moment the increased controversy it would ignite against an already controversial plan). And delay in reducing greenhouse gas emissions is problematic on at least two fronts: the longer we delay implementation, the more expensive reductions become, and delay makes it more difficult to achieve our Paris commitment to achieve 26 to 28 percent reductions in our emissions by 2025. Sanders would sacrifice these practicalities to get greater reductions in emissions over the long run. He would also probably lose the D.C. Circuit panel of judges currently hearing legal challenges to the CPP, a panel that includes at least two judges likely to accord the administration significant deference in its choice about how to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act.
Sam
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Something Sanders is unlikely to say here. Ah well.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Don't take the anti-communist bait! It's about U.S. policy - invasions, interventions, coups.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)and a reason why many non-Hill fans like me aren't comfortable with him as the nominee. This was easily his worst moment of the debate.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It means nothing any more. People have been hearing the bullshit about Obama being a socialist for 8 years already. It's spent. All your anti-communist yahoos are already mobilized.
Hard to say how this plays in Florida, but his answers will win Latino votes for him outside the right-wing enclaves. Certainly in New York!
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)and he didn't need to. Just say countries take different paths for legitimate reasons and they shouldn't be demonized. I think he froze up because he was in South Florida trying to win a primary. He'll need to do better if he's the nominee.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)It's obvious that this was coming from both Univision and Clinton. (With or without the clip from the 1980s.)
ericson00
(2,707 posts)he must not be nominated.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I think Bernoe is doing really well with this crowd.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I think there would be some generational differences in the reactions.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Fucking Benghazi. I thought they were going to bring up Vince Foster or the dress. UGH.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)And the WAPO commentators at break just sucked.
But the crowd was great and it's great to communicate here, even with differences in views. Thanks for initiating a thread for that!
Unfortunately, we're not done in Miami. I do have some rum though.
Think I'll make do with that.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)have a feel good thread. We can rally around our dislike for Univision I guess.
Thanks for making the thread awesome! Maybe see you the next (last?) debate?
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I need to find something like that Roku link ahead of time to make watching easier.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The questions should have been about the U.S.-backed coup d'etats and death squads in Latin America, including Clinton's move in Honduras.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)who rightfully called out the Castros for what they are. Not those who stand with them.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)No surprises when you agree with her. We all just take it for granted.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)not "People's Revolution" like Bernie talked about at his post-MI conference the other day.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Expand corn based ethanol (after she had voted against it 17 time in the Senate).
Proven incompetence is closer.
peace13
(11,076 posts)...disappearing for weeks before conceding to Obama and setting press conferences that she failed to attend all while holding the Democratic Party hostage. Using 911 to sell the Iraq war. Where does it
stop?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)Lets hope that is just a few months from now.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Pretty sure I could not take her in the WH!
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)by a revolution...and other struggles along the way?
ericson00
(2,707 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Labor rights...all were the people's revolutions.
It never ends.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It was US hegenomy and its hunger to put tyrants in power while ignoringhow fucking evil they were.
But I noticed how you ran from my assessment of Israel so I doubt a cogent redponse from you here either.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)it was bad that someone stopped them (AMERICA)?
Thank God we were hegemons: Russia as the hegemon would've ruined civilization.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)to acknowledge what I had written, but it dies not change the valudity of what I had written.
The USA is as much the author of the Castros as it is of abject failures in Viet Nam, Persia and now Israel.
But thank you for the might makes right chest thumping USA cheer!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It is working, innit?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)No doubt about that.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)how many that will resonate with in the audience.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Madam Mossfern
(2,340 posts)Damn.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)after Florida!
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"And by the way, Bernie sanders praised what he called the 'revolution of values' in Cuba; I think that any revolution that involves disappearing people, imprisoning political opponents, and (insert other stuff, like I said, no rewind), then it's not a revolution worth having!"
basically lobbing a shitball at him, like he supports communist authoritarianism.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Might want to focus on what candidates have actually said and done, hmmm?
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You're gonna have to back it up or back it off, bettyellen.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)because the negatives are a huge part of the story too. Not just death squads, but all the shitty oppression, and poverty.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)"Bernie supports death squads! or if he doesn't, he didn't say he doesn't, so it's the same thing!"
You're trying to find some way to attack him as if he supported disappearign people. As if he supports imprisoning dissidents. He praised educational and medical progress, where the fuck did he support dictatorial measures/ Ph right, he CRITICIZED dictatorial measures, but that doesn't work with this line of attack.
It's not a personal insult to point out that the approach you are taking here is vile. Your candidate's attack was low. Lower than a fucking Republican. If you can show me where her insinuations against Sanders have ANY merit, please show them. otherwise, stop trying to defend them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)As i said, I think you're better than that. So please. Clinton's attack on sanders was baseless, undeserved, and shameful, and I don't think you ought be be trying to bolster it.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)it is a vile attack. It is a low attack. It's a shameful attack. it's a baseless attack.
Sanders does not, and never has done anything remotely similar to praising or supporting political imprisonment, or "disappearing" people, or any of the other shit Hillary Clinton insinuated he does. it's grotesque to say he does.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It is way too much to ignore. I kind of feel like it is vile to suggest ignoring it is okay.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)She insinuated Sanders supports disappearing people, locking up political dissidents, and the like.
Your attempt at a re-write isn't any better. "But you didn't mention X while you were talking about Y!" It's an attempt at a 'gotcha." What's more, it's just factually wrong. he did condemn the dictatorial actions of the Cuban govenrment several times in that segment.
Clinton nosedived to a new low tonight, and there's no reason for you to try to catch her.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)What Clinton did was ugly and baseless.
At any rate, my beef is with what she said, not you bettyellen. have a lovely night.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Did I hear wrong?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)just that he praised the system without any reservations
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Go away with this stuff, bettyellen. it's gross and below you.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Madam Mossfern
(2,340 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)How low can she go.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)off Bernie
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)TriplD
(176 posts)It seems like they cut him off just as he's about to make him point and try to talk over him.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)will find common ground
and stand my ground principles?
vote for me for president, whew!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and oligarchy so Overturn CU and clean up elections. And get more kids in college. better, That;s why I am running for president!
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)BigBearJohn
(11,410 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Thanks for doing this with me- hope to see you all next debate! And I hope it has better questions!
Matariki
(18,775 posts)You do a fantastic job keeping us all civil. Much appreciated.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)She was horrible
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)k8conant
(3,030 posts)and condescension and smirking.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)Just saying...
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)tonight, and I think Sanders did better in establishing that he's firmly on the left and always has been.
I think the questions were good and pointed. The kinds of questions that either would have to answer in a general election. I think Clinton showed more warmth and empathy toward the woman from Guatemala while Sanders showed that he too would protect her. I know a lot of folks here really dislike one candidate or the other but I don't. I think they're both pretty good on some things and not so great on others.
Thanks again for hosting bettyellen. I like reading through this thread and seeing other people's takes.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Here is my take away on the debate of Bernie Sanders vs. Hillary Clinton.
Are you a Republican? Yeah, she was owned.
Are you a Democrat? Bernie Sanders presented a clear message in the face of baseless nonsensical attacks, and my votes are leaning towards voting for him because of a precise message.
Are you an Independent? Democrats wonder why we are Independents when we have choice R and choice D being these guys? DUDE!
That is my takeaway.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I think that the questions were sort of insulting! Benghazi?!? Commie?!?! Trump racist!?!
wTF???? was my takeaway, ha ha.