Stop Supporting Bernie's Campaign, Part 2

[Chichiri]

I got a lot of responses to my first post on this topic; rather than pad my post count responding to all of them, I'm just going to answer as many as I can here.


Bernie is going to win the nomination.

No. He's not. I've gone over the math time and time again; it's just not going to happen.


You're engaging in psyops, FUD, or something like that.

I'm being realistic. If I thought there was any chance of Hillary losing the nomination at this point, I'd be working my butt off donating, phone banking, canvasing, doing whatever I can for her primary campaign rather than talking to you guys. But there isn't.


Why doesn't Hillary drop out?

She's going to win the nomination; hence she has no reason to drop out.


I'm not giving the DNC one thin dime.

You don't have to. The Hillary Victory Fund is the joint fundraising effort with the DNC; Hillary For America is the Hillary-only fund.


You're just assuming that Bernie supporters want to help Hillary become President.

I'm assuming that they want to keep Democrats in the Oval Office, and keep Republicans out. If that's not the case, then so be it, but you may want to read the Terms of Service.


I don't want Hillary to become President even if she is the nominee.

That's your affair, but again, you may want to read the Terms of Service.


Hillary is a (insert something negative here).

Hillary is going to be the nominee regardless.


YOU are a (insert something negative here).

Hillary is going to be the nominee regardless.


I want to keep Hillary honest to her progressive promises.

You can do that without supporting Bernie's campaign. In fact, by looking at her statements outside the context of an opposed primary, you'll find out what your benchmarks are. Putting pressure on her by threatening the nomination was a viable option before Iowa, but is no longer. Putting pressure on her in another way, if you think that's the most constructive way to go about it, may yet be possible.


I want my vote to matter.

Your vote matters precisely as much as does the vote of everyone else who has voted, and nobody is forcing you to vote the way you don't want to. Many thousands of people voted for O'Malley after he dropped out. If it doesn't feel like your vote will matter as much, I suggest you lobby for all states to hold their primaries at the same time.


There are practical advantages to Bernie running even if he can't win, such as bringing young voters in.

There are ways to do that that don't involve spending time and effort tilting at windmills and disappointing young people when Bernie doesn't win.


Just because of what you said, I'm giving MORE time/effort/money to Bernie's campaign! How about THAT?

That hurts me indirectly, in that I'm a Democrat and my party's nominee will not be getting as much support as she could. It hurts you too, by the same amount, and for the same reason, inasmuch as you're not a Republican or apathetic. It also hurts you directly, inasmuch as your donation could be spent instead on a gallon of milk, a loaf of bread, a day at the amusement park for your kids, or support for the person who will be the Democratic nominee.


Hillary didn't drop out in 2008.

Arguably she should have. Perhaps not. But at no point in that year was Hillary's deficit even close to Bernie's deficit today.


You can't force me to do this.

Of course I can't. That's why I'm asking you.

[riderinthestorm]

1. Round one didn't go like you expected eh?

Good luck with this one. Really.

[bigwillq]

2. I support Bernie. Now and forever.

I hope he runs again in 2028.

[Chichiri]

18. 2028? nt

[yallerdawg]

37. Hey, Senator Warren would be about right...

for joining the ticket!

Sanders/Warren 2028!

"Hope springs eternal!"

[Vattel]

3. The chances of Bernie winning are small, but the costs of his losing are so great

that giving up should not be an option.

[Karma13612]

46. +100 eom

[tomm2thumbs]

4. Definitely looks like number 2 to me

[Chichiri]

17. See above. nt

[k8conant]

5. If at first you don't succeed, try try again

I'm with Bernie.

[noretreatnosurrender]

6. Double Jeopardy Round

Oh goody! I'll take Arrogance for $1,000.

[Chichiri]

16. See above. nt

[noretreatnosurrender]

31. No Thanks

I've seen enough already and in multiple threads too. This reminds me of those movies where they bring out the sequel to a movie you didn't even like the first time. I guess some people just have no creativity.

[nc4bo]

7. Ching-la-ling - another few bucks to the Bernie Sanders campaign! nt

[Chichiri]

14. See above. nt

[mvd]

15. Yep, just gave $5 today

Chipping in when I can. I don't consider it wasted when I really believe in a candidate and the donations can help keep his campaign viable. It will be hard, but it is not over.

[Land of Enchantment]

8. The Bible Belt Does NOT Get To Choose The Nominee For Me.

I have not voted yet because the primaries are front loaded in the Deep South. I LEFT the Deep South because it is not a progressive part of the US to put it mildly.

How dare you suggest I be disenfranchised. You are alienating people. I have been a registered Democrat since 1971 and have NEVER missed a primary or GE.

Please just go away. If you think it is Democratic to disenfranchise the voters in 25 states then you should move to some third world cesspit that agrees with your political philosophy.

[Chichiri]

10. Good lord, what happened to Tennessee and North Carolina? nt

[yallerdawg]

40. This while you disenfranchise Southern Democrats.

And African-American voters in the south.

You know, members of the Democratic Party!!!

[TM99]

53. Ah, hypocrisy is the Clinton supporter,

as they wail about disenfranchisement while half the delegates remain in other states that would be disenfrancshised if not allowed to vote for a viable if long-shot candidate.

[Garrett78]

54. Clinton is doing best in the bluest areas. Sanders is doing best in the reddest areas.

While that may not seem like the way it ought to be, that's the reality.

[DanTex]

9. K&R. And LOL.

[Downwinder]

11. As long as we are having a redo.

Would you be willing to drop out of Hillary's campaign?

[Chichiri]

13. See above. nt

[Downwinder]

21. Do you leave a football game after the first quarter?

[stone space]

12. Your concern over DUers spending their milk money on a Democratic campaign is touching.

It also hurts you directly, inasmuch as your donation could be spent instead on a gallon of milk, a loaf of bread, a day at the amusement park for your kids, or support for the person who will be the Democratic nominee.

[Chichiri]

19. On a primary campaign that is not going to win. nt

[stone space]

24. Thank you, Debbie Downer, for looking out for us.

Your enthusiasm will no doubt carry us thru the general as well.

[Agnosticsherbet]

20. Beautiful argument.

Until Sanders openly accepts it, most of his followers will not.

On Rachel Maddow, Sanders refused to say that, in the event he had fewer pledged delegates than Clinton that he would end his campaign, and said he would try to influence the Superdelegates in states he won to change to support him.

Until Sanders is willing to admit that he can possible lose, those who follow him will not.

“Hope springs eternal in the human breast;
Man never Is, but always To be blest.
The soul, uneasy, and confin'd from home,
Rests and expatiates in a life to come.”


― Alexander Pope

[Herman4747]

22. "she has no reason to drop out," Chichiri exclaims...

Oh, but she does have an excellent reason to drop out -- so the nation's voters won't have to choose which liar to deceive them:

[Chichiri]

23. See above. nt

[Herman4747]

28. What is "above" is irrelevant to my contention that...

Hillary does have a fine reason to drop out: America deserves a better president than one who readily lies, who is insincere to the max, and who may well be corrupt.

[riderinthestorm]

32. On a tangential note, what kind of bracelet is Bill wearing?

It almost looks like a fancy red string.

Anyone know?

[surrealAmerican]

64. It looks like a "friendship bracelet" ...

... the kind that's made out of knotted embroidery floss or string.

[tokenlib]

25. Oh, so you started digging hole#2? New shovel?

Damn, there went the lunch money to Bernie again...

And the answer is still NO!

[Warren DeMontague]

26. You asked, i said no.

[arcane1]

27. So you'll "pad [your] post count responding to all of them" in this thread instead?

[Chichiri]

48. Good point! Especially when everything is "See above."

People will either read or they won't.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. Ask all you want. The answer is still no.

It will still be no if you go to Part 3, 4, 5 or whatever.

[merrily]

30. LOL! I think your OPs may be singlehandedly upping donations to Bernie tonight. Keep at it!

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. There is that

And OPs like this will depress the vote in November as well

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Sorry to disappoint you.

I am with Bernie.

I will never be with Hillary.

[jfern]

34. How about you stop supporting the less electable candidate?

After all, Bernie polls better in the general election.

[dchill]

35. No. And don't ask me again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Of all the points you made

Hillary did not drop off for the same reason candidates stay until the bitter end, which is mathematical elimination. We are not there yet, though close.

The reason why people stay in is so they can have a real say in the plank writing of the party this is so basic it is embarrassing it has to be explained.

For the record, this is the political reason. The banal reason is that quite frankly major states have yet to vote...and to be brutal about this whatever the current primary system produces is not representative, not even close, of where large swaths of the country are at.

[renate]

63. +1

(Because my vote is no bigger or better than anyone else's--since, after all, I don't live in Iowa or New Hampshire or Illinois or any of the before-halftime states--I just gave you a +1, but I wish I could give you more.)

Well said.

[Politicalboi]

39. Bernie or Bust

She will NOT win the nom. Cheating at the polls by visiting is disgusting. I won't support those that steal from me.

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. There is no reason why he should end his campaign,

and a very good reason why he should proceed: other peoples', votes count and they should be able to cast them without a whole ton of discouraging apathy or worse, interference from the sidelines to deal with.

I guess Hillary et al will just have to go along for the ride or forfeit the field themselves.

You call the democratic process "tilting at windmills". Really now? If the primary was supposed to end in March, the rest of it wouldn't be scheduled. This is the process. We will complete it. And the more you complain, the more determined we are to do exactly that.

Stop trying to cheat. It isn't working.

[AzDar]

42. #StillSanders #NeverHillary

[21st Century Poet]

43. When is Part 3 coming out?

Wow, I just read all the replies and not a single person who wasn't already a Clinton supporter agreed with you. I can't wait for Part 3!

[Chichiri]

47. No need for a part 3; Bernie supporters are merely repeating themselves at this point.

Part 3 would be me doing the same. So yeah.

[21st Century Poet]

50. Don't quit a winning formula.

Police Academy went on for seven films.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. It's OK. There's plenty of number two in this OP.

[bobbobbins01]

44. I was done phonebanking tonight until I saw this.

Bernie just got another hour from me.

[FreedomRain]

45. thank you

That's a very reasonable post and the kind that will help if the day comes that Bernie endorses Hillary. Hey, I know that is the most likely outcome, I am cool with it. I can say it is unfortunate for our party that it won't be as energized and Independent attracting as Bernie's might be, but we may have to live with that. You are optimistic for your preferred candidate and we are for ours. It is too early to dismiss the possibility he may yet win. Let's see what the voters say, many have not had their voices heard yet on the nomination.

[Maedhros]

49. Sorry, but I don't vote for corporate minions.

Even if all the cool kids are doing it.

[Raster]

52. No.

[Larkspur]

55. Yes we can continue to support Bernie. I haven't voted yet.

Hillary supporters are just jealous that Hillary had to go into $6 million debt in 2008 in a losing battle and Bernie has a strong core of supporters who will keep funding his campaign. As long as he can raise the money, he should keep going.

[RoseMead]

56. I logged just to tell you no

Hell no, even.

Bye now!

[rock]

57. Don't you think it would be less traumatic to the Bernie Supporters

To ride this whirlwind to the end? (Not that I think the end result will change!) Wouldn't that be the easiest way to let them down and the way to bring peace between the factions? Hummm?

Incidentally I do very much enjoy your answers to the questions for this OP. Thanks so much.

[HassleCat]

58. Let's ask Hillary Clinton

She says she has nothing to say about Sanders dropping out. In fact, she mentioned the point about how she stuck it out against Obama in 2008.

[EndElectoral]

59. Thanks for posting. Reminded me to send Sanders campaign $25. Done.

[BlindTiresias]

60. Go home

You are drunk.

[timmymoff]

61. I will be voting for

the most progressive candidate available for the general election. It won't be a corporatist. Don't like my vote, better get more people out to help you with that awe inspiring campaign of Secretary Clinton. If Hillary happens to earn my vote, ( yes, she must earn it ) I still won't support any corporatist candidates down ticket either. How's that new way/third way thingy working out for ya?

[LWolf]

62. I'll stop supporting Sanders' primary campaign

the day after the convention.

Not before then.