Those who accused Clinton and the DNC of rigging or stealing the election in Arizona

[CreekDog]

They have hurt Sanders and everything he stood for.

If Sanders gets the nomination, some who believed the accusations will be less likely to vote for him because he is representing the party that was accused of this. If he wins the nomination, the chances that he will have less support in Congress because people who believed the accusation voted against Democrats who would support his agenda increase, making Democrats who support him more likely to lose those races.

The same things also apply if Hillary gets nominated.

Meanwhile, the Republicans on the Supreme Court who gutted the Voting Rights Act that would have likely prevented the reduction in voting locations in Arizona and especially in Maricopa County (Phoenix) are spared from blame.

Meanwhile, the Republicans running Arizona (The Governor and the Legislature), the Republican running statewide elections (The Secretary of State) and the Republican running elections in Maricopa County are all spared.

If people believe those accusations, they may either not vote for Democrats who will support the Voting Rights Act or worse, they might vote for Republicans who will undermine elections to an even greater degree.

[highprincipleswork]

1. If Democrats don't get their act together, including re elections, what do you think they deserve?

If people don't turn out to express their views, they have no reason to complain. But if people work, sweat, wait five hours in line, etc., and still don't get their vote counted, something is very, very, very wrong.

And if you don't want us to complain about it, I have got to seriously disagree.

Do not even begin to think that the act of holding the Democratic Party to the highest principles they have ever represented or could represent is going to stop.

Do not think that reporting on everything that seems to be valid and the truth and bears investigation is going to stop.

If we want real representation as average people in this corrupt, dog eat dog, corporate free for all that is America today, we need to work for, donate to, register to vote for, and finally VOTE FOR BERNIE!

[CreekDog]

3. Democrats did not run the Arizona primary election

can we get that correct next time?

[highprincipleswork]

5. They apparently did not work against the changes that promised so much chaos. And the pattern of

improprieties in vote counting and in people showing up as registered differently than they previously notated needs to be followed and investigated. We cannot have these election place discrepancies occur, and if they do occur in large states like New York, especially with all that warning, that will need to be investigated also.

[CreekDog]

11. YES they did

You should spend the time you're spending making things up, reading up on things instead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/politics/democrats-voter-rights-lawsuit-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0

Democrats Wage a National Fight Over Voter Rules

By MAGGIE HABERMAN and AMY CHOZICKJUNE 3, 2015

Democrats allied with Hillary Rodham Clinton are mounting a nationwide legal battle 17 months before the 2016 presidential election, seeking to roll back Republican-enacted restrictions on voter access that Democrats say could, if unchallenged, prove decisive in a close campaign.

The court fights began last month with lawsuits filed in Ohio and Wisconsin, presidential battleground states whose governors are likely to run for the Republican nomination. Now, Democrats are attacking a host of measures, including voter identification requirements that they consider onerous, time restrictions imposed on early voting that they say could make it difficult to cast ballots the weekend before Election Day, and rules that could nullify ballots cast in the wrong precinct.

[highprincipleswork]

60. This is not the same thing that happened in Arizona and apparently is now happening in New York.

And if Hillary Clinton cannot help with voter registration irregularities that people are talking about in New York, like they check to make sure they are still registered as Democrat and find they are not, then I guess she cannot help with that anywhere.

[kristopher]

76. Site to verity registration in all states - given the cheating, do it often.

https://www.headcount.org/verify-voter-registration/

[yardwork]

19. We've had years of warning. Where have you been?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Guess he refuses to

Willful ignorance I guess.

[brush]

23. Exactly! BS supporters please understand that the repugs are practicing how to suppress . . .

votes in the general election. They are the party in charge of the electoral process.

Weren't many of the polling places closed in Latino communities who they know will support the dem nominee?

Come on Sanders supporters, it was not Hillary or the dems suppressing votes. Think about it, if all those people who waited and maybe didn't get to vote had voted, the same percentage of votes would have gone to Clinton and Sanders.

How could anyone think that all those people in the long lines were only Sanders voters.

That is nonsensical.

Lay the blame where it belongs, on the repugs, and figure out how to stop them from carrying out their vote suppression plan for November.

[kristopher]

77. To quote you on you

"That is nonsensical."

[brush]

81. You do know all the election officials who closed all the polling stations are repugs, right?

Tell me how nonsensical is that? That actually happened. Here are some statistics:

Most counties surveyed by The Arizona Republic had enough polling places to average 2,500 or fewer eligible voters per polling site. Maricopa County, the most populous county where Phoenix is, had only one site per every 21,000 voters.

Chris Roads, Pima County’s registrar of voters, said that Pima County (Tucson) had 130 polling places open for this election. That’s more than double the 60 polling places that were open in Maricopa County, where huge lines plagued polls and some people had to wait hours to vote.

Come on people. It's Arizona for God's sake.

They're trying to keep that state red by suppressing dem votes.

It was a presidential primary. Primaries are run by the state, unlike caucuses which are run by the parties.

Get It? The Democratic Party had nothing to do with people's registrations being switched or polling stations being closed that caused the long lines.

Let's not fall for the okey doke. That was a repug rehearsal for dem vote suppression in the general election.

It wasn't subtle and didn't go well, but whoever accused repugs of being subtle?

[kristopher]

88. My neighbor asked "who benefited"?

She noted that the people who voted early were largely retired establishment Democrats - the group that favored Hillary - and that the people who were screwed over by the closed polling places and underhanded games with the registrations were largely Bernie voters.

I told her what you say and she asked why the Republicans were afraid of Bernie?

[brush]

89. In the Phoenix area most of the polls in Latino areas were closed

Latinos have voted largely for Clinton in other states.

The repugs were trying to suppress their votes.

[kristopher]

90. 70% of the polls were closed.

You're using Latino's as a red herring.

[brush]

91. What are you talking about?

I stated a fact. There were polls closed in other areas too.

Closed polls makes it harder for people to vote, which historically has been shown many, many times to benefit repugs.

There's no red herring. The repugs were testing out how to suppress democratic votes by closing polling places. They will use this information in November to suppress democratic votes in the general election whether it's Clinton or Sanders running.

Instead of going off on me you need to protest against the repug officials in charge of closing the polling stations, some 200 plus stations.

They're practicing for November to keep AZ a red state by keeping dem votes down.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[kristopher]

92. Whatever gets you though the night.

But don't piss on my back and try to tell me it's raining.

[brush]

93. Okay, it's hard for you to understand. I get it. Thick is as thick does. I'm done.

[kristopher]

94. Yes, you are done.

You were done before you started.

[fun n serious]

8. I do not know how your reply fits this post?

Blaming Hillary only lets the real disenfranchisers off the hook and hurts Dems. Actually the damage is done.

[MaeScott]

72. The state Dem Party had control of voter rolls. nt

[gordianot]

2. How likely is it any Democrat would have the pull to rig an election in Arizona?

I intend to buy some Powerball tickets.

[litlbilly]

4. the repubs had nothing to do with all the people who registered as dems but ended up

not being registered. that is on the dems of Arizona.

[yardwork]

7. The Republican Secretary of State is in charge of AZ voter registration.

[litlbilly]

10. well then thats just plain dumb and fucking stupid.

[yardwork]

14. No, it's deliberate voter suppression.

[CreekDog]

16. then why did you say what you said?

you were just corrected for posting uninformed nonsense that blames the Democratic Party for what Republicans did.

you did the damage, it will hurt Bernie, it will hurt Hillary.

it will hurt anybody who runs as a Democrat, anyone who runs to support Single Payer Healthcare.

good job.

and you were completely, completely wrong.

take some responsibility, because we're all gonna pay for the wrong stuff you said.

[litlbilly]

53. you need to take a fucking nap and stop posting nonsense

[LanternWaste]

82. Or, more relevantly, you could simply accept truth over your petulance and bias...

Or, more relevantly, you could simply accept truth over your petulance and bias...

[fun n serious]

12. Yes they did.

I saw video after video and they were all Indys who recently changed to Dem. The update issue is on Arizona not Hillary. Repukes run the voting in Arizona. ALL of the voting....

[Codeine]

84. What the hell are you on about?

You real don't know how anything at all works, do you?

[ibegurpard]

9. meanwhile

Hillary says jack-shit about the Arizona fiasco while flouting her "win"...
So there's that.

[litlbilly]

13. and shes not mentioning the absolute blowouts in Idao and Utah. they were crushjobs

[fun n serious]

17. Yes. and? nt

[fun n serious]

15. How does that make it her fault?

Geez. If she did say anything that would be scrutinized too.

[brooklynite]

21. I'm delighted to see you acknowledge that no election rule violations occurred in Massachusetts.

...since Bernie Sanders has said j--- s--- about any of the allegations mentioned here.

[rhett o rick]

22. This isn't a war between the Democrats and Republicons it's a war between

the wealthy class (Clinton) and the lower classes (Sanders). Those that choose to side with the wealthy and ignore the 16 million children living in poverty, I have only to say frack you.

[yardwork]

24. Bullshit. /nt

[rhett o rick]

27. Spoken like someone that grovels at the feet of the wealthy. Someone that turns their

backs on the 16 million children living in poverty. Someone that applauds the actions of Clinton when she bowed before Bush and lied to the Senate about the threat of Hussein. I know you are aware that the Neocons have endorsed Clinton. Why? Because they know she will carry American Exceptionalism and the quest to "give" democracy to those in the middle east. Of course the MIC will enjoy huge profits but they will share them with the Clinton Aristocracy. And you will applaud the growth of the wealth gap to the point that the lower 99% will sink into poverty. But maybe Goldman-Sachs, your new god, will like you.

[baldguy]

38. Spoken like someone who doesn't understand that the Republican fascists are the real enemy.

Not the Democratic Party.

[rhett o rick]

40. They are not the real enemy. The Oligarchy is the real enemy. Republicons

are a distraction.

[baldguy]

74. You remember that when the distraction President Trump opens the concentration camps

for Muslims, Mexicans, liberals, and other anti-Trumpist "enemies of the state", and starts lobbing nukes into Syria and Iran.

You want so desperately for this to be a replay of the Paris Commune. It isn't. We're rhyming to the tune of the Wiemar Republic instead.

[rhett o rick]

79. The Ruling Class is using the fear of Trump to make us accept a

candidate that will continue the looting of our resources by the Ruling 1%. We desperately need a progressive in the WH. The neocons are hoping the Clinton would obliterate Iran. Where did they get that idea?

[Starry Messenger]

26. Absolute garbage dumpster fire.

[CreekDog]

39. That's why it's fitting that there's someone named "Rhett" in here

that doesn't give a damn.

[CreekDog]

30. apparently you didn't realize you posted in a thread about an election

typical.

[rhett o rick]

33. The OP wanted to pretend that the Clinton campaign was innocent. I say bullshit. The Clinton

campaign represents the Ruling Class and they have the money and inclination to fuck up the election in AZ to the point that Clinton wins. The fix is in and you don't care because you've chosen to side with the biggest bully on the playground.

Maybe you think the Big Money that you grovel before will like you. Not a chance.

[fun n serious]

63. Prove it. Prove she had a hand in this. nt

[LanternWaste]

85. You will of course, supply us with objective evidence to support your allegatio

You will of course, supply us with objective evidence to support your allegation Clinton is responsible for the debacle in AZ, yes?

Or (and I find this more likely), you'll simply call more people more names, thus illustrating again the full breadth of your education; or possibly resort to the petulance of "mob mentality" accusations (again, lacking any evidence).

Either way, it's often amusing to watch the sophistic masquerade as rational and I sincerely look forward to it.

[bvf]

66. And... skunked. My, but skins run thin around here!

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:20 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

This isn't a war between the Democrats and Republicons it's a war between
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1565001

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

He is using " frack you" as an alternative to a very offensive way of venting his anger. He is a very angry person who is only here to make others feel as miserable as he does. This Ugliness needs to stop on DU. I will alert and e-mail admins as well.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 24, 2016, 01:29 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nah, not going to vote to hide, the alert is too far a reach, especially in this forum. If you don't like what's being said, answer it in the thread.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
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Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the alerter needs to get a grip

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[rhett o rick]

80. Thanks for posting. The alerter is right that I am very angry.

Some experts have told us that we've lost our democracy and now live in a country ruled by a government that is controlled by big money. This big money influence is being used to steal resources from the middle and working classes. We are the ones that help those among us that are struggling. The more and more resources that we lose to the Wealthy 1%, the less help we can give to our neighbors and families struggling. I see the struggle every day. I am angry that we have people that turn their backs on those struggling and throw in with the Wealthy 1%. They have lots of different rationalizations but nothing justifies the support of bigger profits for the Wealthy at the expense of those among us that are struggling. The billionaires that support Clinton believe she will help them in lieu of helping the lower 99%. I do believe that Clinton will toss some token "cake" to us peons, but that won't be enough.

The more and more power the billionaires gain the harder and harder it will be to recover our democracy. We may never have this chance again.

[gollygee]

78. This voting issue is a war between Democrats and Republicans

Republicans are targeting suppressing the vote of people of color (who largely favor Hillary) and new voters (who largely favor Sanders.) They're happy to suppress both of those groups as it will help them in November.

SCOTUS gutted the Voting Rights Act, and this is the effect of that. There was lots of talk about this on DU when it happened.

[Starry Messenger]

25. Some of us have been screaming about the gutting of the VRA for ages.

Including Hillary: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/voting-rights/

Hillary will:

Restore the crucial provisions of the Voting Rights Act.

Implement universal, automatic voter registration for eligible 18-year-olds.

Set a new national standard allowing early voting to begin 20 days or more before an election.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-early-voting-nationwide

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-goes-on-the-attack-over-voting-rights-in-alabama/2015/10/17/dbef615a-7373-11e5-9cbb-790369643cf9_story.html

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clintons-bold-plan-voting-rights/

[yardwork]

28. Thank you for a moment of factual sanity.

[Starry Messenger]

37. Thank you, I just can't believe this gaslighting.

So many people have been posting about this for ages...goodness! Always delighted to see you yardie! ((hugs))

[CreekDog]

48. sadly, that's his only source of light

[CreekDog]

50. Socialism would be a helluva a lot stronger around here with more posters like Starry

and fewer like, you know.

[rhett o rick]

29. Bullshit. The Ruling Class that you revere doesn't care about the VRA. They care only about

profits and wealth. You think that Goldman-Sachs cares about the VRA?

[CreekDog]

32. bring it Rhett, PROVE that starry "reveres" the ruling class

prove that post or delete that post.

she has a stronger record at DU posting in favor of Democratic Socialism, in favor of trade unions, in favor of worker rights than you do.

so you either prove your post or delete your post.

[Starry Messenger]

34. Let's compare:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=starry+messenger+vra+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com

[obamanut2012]

68. lololololololol

As someone who knows this poster very well IRL:

[rhett o rick]

35. You dont give a shit about the VRA as long as your candidate wins.

At some point the People will over throw the wealthy fat cats that buy our politicians. They have paid the Clintons $150,000,000 and some minions love it.

[Starry Messenger]

41. Dude, I have been on this for years.

You have just broken the internet with peak irony. I don't remember seeing your name on those threads before TODAY. Soo...? Who isn't it who doesn't give a shit unless their candidate wins.. or loses, more likely?

[rhett o rick]

43. I support those among us that are fighting for jobs and decent health

care. Frack those that put Goldman-Sachs profits before our children's lives.

[Starry Messenger]

46. So all of those posts about the VRA you have?

Not going to put them up? Not going to admit you were wrong and you are Mr. Come Lately on this issue?

[rhett o rick]

52. What my point is that the Clinton Aristocracy doesn't give a shit

about free and fair elections. They represent the Ruling Class and will do everything in their power to eliminate the challenge of a progressive.

Your attempts to intimidate are typical. The People will sooner or later stand up to the powers of the Ruling Class.

[Starry Messenger]

55. Well they ain't voting for your guy.

And despite all the lying and dazzle from your posts, I have been posting about this issue since 2013: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023102040

Put up or shut up. Your non-attempts at caring about this are noted. I already posted the HRC threads about her efforts to help on this VRA issue and you doubled-down on auto-pilot. I myself do not care about your posts, but I'm sure lurkers can tell who just dodged the issue like a hog on ice.

[rhett o rick]

56. Clinton only cares about her personal wealth.

[Starry Messenger]

57. *squawk*

[rhett o rick]

58. I guess you agree. $150,000,000 and counting. And all from "friends".

We need to throw out the corrupt Big Money from our politics.

[Starry Messenger]

59. You haven't refuted a single post.

Debate fail. Math fail. Bernie fail.

[rhett o rick]

61. You feel tough with the Big Money and corrupt politics on your side.

But you will fall along with the Big Money in the end.

[Starry Messenger]

62. You have already failed and your guy has lost.

The dude revolution failed. Next time actually try caring about the VRA and you might make some inroads. All the people on my side were years ahead on this issue.

[obamanut2012]

70. Yup this

And...

ilu

[Starry Messenger]

73. Ilu!

Just another day in GDP. I should have read my book instead, The Hedge Funder Who Loved Me.

[CreekDog]

87. you talk a big game for someone who can't even get someone as liberal as Starry on your side

it seems your purpose is so lacking in substance that perhaps it is just to divide the most progressive people from each other.

you throw a lot of words around but you almost never talk about the issues themselves, or demonstrate that you even know what the terms you use actually mean.

[CreekDog]

51. remember when you tried to accuse John Paul Stevens of being responsible for Bush v. Gore?

that's why your posts read like a madlib generator.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=485894

you don't know what you're talking about. sadly, since you claim to be liberal, even socialist at times, it hurts us all, especially those of us on the far left when you post nonsense.

i have a feeling you know what you're doing, even if you don't know what you're talking about.

[rhett o rick]

54. I do have to give you guys at the Cave credit for you ability to

drag up old posts. But your misrepresentations are pathetic. Go ahead and gang up. But that doesn't intimidate me. You claim to be on the Left but that's a lie. Lies seem to be a tactic from the Cave.

[CreekDog]

65. Yes, do tell us all you know about the Cave

But go ahead, tell everyone who (you think) is me.

[obamanut2012]

71. Accusing Creeky of being a Caver

[CreekDog]

42. you had all of 9 posts last year in the socialist progressives group here, she's actually a host

ironically, if you exclude your Clinton bashing posts in that group, you'd have almost none.

[rhett o rick]

45. Yeah what's your point?

[Starry Messenger]

47. Thank you!!

Good gracious.

[obamanut2012]

69. I needed to take an anti-irony vitamin after raeding your posts

In this subthread.









And a

and "eyes"

for good measure.

[CreekDog]

44. Thank you. I can't believe we have to distract from talking about that to deal with this other BS.

[Binkie The Clown]

36. Can you say "Blame the victim" boys and girls? n/t

[MrWendel]

49. This...

was one of the DUMBEST conspiracy theories yet. It was borderline embarrassing.

[FreedomRain]

67. I don't blame Hillary

or even her supporters for this. Clearly a Republican manipulation. What I don't get is why she hasn't said anything about it? If I stood in line to vote for her and was unlawfully prevented from doing so, as many were, I would be rather upset myself.

edit to add - I do expect she will say something about it.

[Orsino]

75. Another goddamned "supporters" thread.

And no, you're unlikely to remember exactly who was mean to you on the Internet by the time we get to the general election.

It was an ill-considered accusation, but it's not going to leave a mark.

[UglyGreed]

83. One thing after another

[NCTraveler]

86. I really don't think some are Sanders supporters.

There is a clear direction a small group here are going. They are carrying the water for Republicans. They are placing the blame for many rally fucked up things republicans are doing on the democratic party. The same group can also be seen using Obama and Clinton to wash the hands of Bush. It is extremely obvious.

[Waiting For Everyman]

95. Oh sure, anytime Hillary is criticized the world suffers.

What bull. When she does loathsome things, it will be said. This attitude that we're supposed to cover up crap she has done instead of reporting it, out of some sort of deference to her, is laughable nonsense.

Now, I don't know if Clinton and the DNC rigged or stole the election in Atlanta, but I wouldn't put it past them. We don't know. No, I don't think they were the reason for the long lines, but that isn't all that was going on that day.

I do think the lack of comment about the lines was very interesting, and not in a good way.

[MisterP]

96. from the faction that was awful quick to absolve Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush of voter caging?

[workinclasszero]

97. I'm sure the republican party was overjoyed with the smear from

the Bernie camp accusing Hillary/DNC/DWS of restricting voting sites when it was a Republican action and a matter of public record.

I bet Trump and the RNC and the hardcore right wingers on SCOTUS are still laughing about it!

[Jitter65]

98. And once the lie and innuendo is out there, nothing can pull it back from the minds of the braindead

This is how most stuff against Hillary is put out there.

[workinclasszero]

99. Right

It pisses me off