“If you want the parties to diverge from one another, have Bush win.” --Ralph Nader.

[DanTex]

This is the face of the far left, folks. The Bernie or Bust left isn't "principled," they actually want Republicans to win elections.

It's not a coincidence that three or four links to right-wing media are posted here every day in order to smear Hillary. It's not a coincidence that people are constantly insisting that there's no difference between Hillary and the GOP. It's not misguided, it is intentional. A GOP victory isn't some unfortunate consequence that the far left hasn't thought through. It is the objective.

I read constantly about what a terrible force the "Third Way" has been in American politics since the 90s. But whatever you think about "New Democrats," they can't hold a candle to the Naderites in terms of destructiveness. The far left are the people who brought us W, and right now they are working hard to try and stick us with Trump. Let's hope Bernie stands up strong to their attempt to hijack his candidacy and turn it into a force for the GOP.

[hrmjustin]

1. Yep! The Bernie or Bust crew are not Democrats.

No matter how much they claim they are.

[whatchamacallit]

2. Hippie puncher says all the left is Nader

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. EEEK!! Nader!! Far Left!! Call Hillary to save us!!!

[DanTex]

4. LOL. Eek! Third way! Corporatists! Bring on the socialist!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. As a socialist, I can only agree.

[DanTex]

8. And I agree that Hillary will triumph over the Bernie or Bust/Trump tag team.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I don't know about you but I'm not voting for Trump.

Or, Hillary.

[DanTex]

13. Yeah, and Nader didn't have to vote for Bush in order to throw the election to him.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. Conclusion: If the Democratic party wants the votes of the Left it should run Leftist candidates.

And, quit whining when it fails to do so.

[DanTex]

17. Nope. Ignore the far left until it gives up on the Naderite blackmail schemes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Blackmail? Stating that you're going to vote for your preferred candidate?

Do tell.

[DanTex]

20. You may not understand how the electoral system works, but Nader did. Quite clearly.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Yes, he did. He ran as a progressive candidate and won votes.

Gore ran as a moderate Democrat and won votes.

Bush ran as an dunce and won votes.

I understand how the electoral system works that's why I want to change it.

[DanTex]

28. He did to throw the election to Bush, intentionally. See the quote in the OP.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Did Gore do the same?

Did he and his supporters intentionally throw the elections to Bush by attacking Nader?

Didn't Gore peel off votes from Nader?

Didn't he try to distance himself from Clinton? Why was that? Should he have embraced Clinton to win the votes of the left or right?

Apparently, you don't understand the electoral system.

If Hillary wins the nomination and loses the GE, who will you blame. Sanders? Trump? The Independent/3rd Party candidates? The voters?

Or, Clinton for failing to convince enough voters to vote for her?

[DanTex]

34. Are you aware of the two-party system we have? Because Nader is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Yes. Which is why I want to change it.

Are you aware that the "two-party" system is not in the constitution or required?

Are you aware that George Washington decried the dangers of party?

Are you aware that most democracies don't have a two party system?

[DanTex]

40. We don't have a parliamentary proportional representation system. That would require amending the

constitution. I'm glad you're working on that, but until that amendment passes, please don't help people like Nader throw any more elections to the GOP.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Support the establishment to fix it?

Sorry, but I don't think that will work. kinda like supporting the death penalty to end it.

[DanTex]

46. I'm sure Trump will fix it...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. I don't think so. That's one of many reasons I won't vote for him.

[DanTex]

51. But you'll still help him win, Nader-style.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. How?

I'm not voting for him. He will not gain a vote from me.

0-0 = 0

Neither will Hillary.

0-0 = 0

Maybe you don't understand how math works.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. The real Ralph Nader

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/06/27/ralph-nader-turns-rightest-on-cisco/

[Beacool]

7. Yeah, that strategy worked well......

[DanTex]

10. If only I bash my head against this brick a little harder...

[UglyGreed]

9. Third way crapola

carrying water for the rich and screwing over everyone else.

[Orsino]

12. Stupid broad-brushing. n/t

[G_j]

14. baloney..

hippie punching nonsense

[onehandle]

16. Ralph Nader 2000 Campaign Interview Where He Revealed His Plan:

​[img][/img]

Will Ralph Nader become Al Gore's worst nightmare?

Of more immediate interest, at least to Al Gore, are Nader's respectable poll numbers: 7 to 10 percent in California as of June, 6 percent nationally. If California tips Green enough, Bush could win the state and the whole damn election.
Which, Nader confided to Outside in June, wouldn't be so bad. When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: "Bush."

http://www.outsideonline.com/1837851/ralph-nader-2000-campaign-interview

How did that work out, Nader voters?

[forjusticethunders]

18. Accelerationism bullshit all over again

Let's punish the oppressed for not supporting socialism by supporting fascism so they "wake up" and support our revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

even Marx rejected that shit btw

This is ACTUALLY how Hitler rose to power in Germany, the KPD refused to work with the SPD to stop Hitler because they didn't think the SPD was radical enough. Combined, the KPD and SPD had more than enough votes (and muscle on the streets) to keep the Nazis out.

[progressoid]

21. mmm...

[Armstead]

22. Is there like a contest going on for dumbest post?

[DanTex]

26. That's my Armstead! Always bringing the intellectual heft!

[Armstead]

30. I only exert as much heft as the task requires

This one was little pinky lightweight

[DanTex]

31. Snarky! Clever!

[Bobbie Jo]

27. That was yesterday.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. Yup. Today they're competing for the "booby prize".

[ThePhilosopher04]

23. Still whining I see

[cosmicone]

24. Bernie doesn't have the integrity to quit and endorse Hillary

The money is too good for Tad Devine and Bernie is dead-man-walking to push his issues -- I mean issue.

The whole world is bored of the subject-verb-(one or more of oligarch, billionaire, 1%, rigged system, wall street and bankers) but like a broken record he keeps yelling the same issue over and over and over and over.

[whatchamacallit]

29. I wonder if this kind of trolling with impunity is what skinner was looking for with the rule change

I'd like to think not.

[cosmicone]

37. It is not trolling -- it is math

"delegate math" to be specific.

[whatchamacallit]

38. We're talking about your crap comment about Bernie's integrity

But you knew that.

[cosmicone]

39. People with integrity bow out

when the handwriting is on the wall and stop accepting more money.

[whatchamacallit]

41. Like Hillary in 2008?

<absolute bullshit description of how that was different to follow>

[highprincipleswork]

33. Quit whining about the "rightwing links". U just don't like reality when it's reported from sources.

That aren't part of your little club.

That's why the hanging out in the "Hillary group". You know it's only going to be a self-serving echo chamber, with little to no discussion, and that's how you like it.

That's why whenever an inconvenient fact or truth or might be fact or might be truth comes up all you tend to do is try to discredit the source, call names, stuff like that. You don't debate things on their own merit.

You simply don't play fair. Because that's not the Clinton game. The Clinton game is about power politics, about bought and sold, not principles that stand true for the average American citizen.

That's why the smokescreen is so damn odious, all the while people's pockets are getting picked.

Your solution - that I become one of the loyal minions, supporting people I don't trust, voting for things i don't believe in.

I've already started practicing my Hillary mantras, in case Bernie doesn't win. You know, "taking money from big money donors doesn't affect a politician in any way. the TPP deal has only a few minor flaws, it's ok to cut Social Security and Medicare because we need to, calling them entitlements is better because what do you think you deserve a return on the money you paid into the system", you know, things like that. I am trying to assimilate myself into the system of the Corporatacrats, but I'm just not sure I'm going to make it!

[DanTex]

36. Now why would anyone defend the posting of right-wing media on a Democratic forum? Hmm...

[highprincipleswork]

42. Oh, so you're calling me rightwing? No, I call those who believe in the buying and selling of the

Democratic Party and the average people it's supposed to represent as right-wing, or close enough.

[DanTex]

43. I'm calling the media that you are defending right-wing. And I'm wondering why you are doing it.

Hmm...

[highprincipleswork]

45. I'm not defending the media in any way. You are attacking people who link to media that you

consider right-wing. And in many cases you may be right. but it doesn't mean they aren't reporting on something that is true or possibly true or likely true or something that has to be dealt with.

I don't believe in that kind of "head in the sand".

Dispute the facts of the matter, not the source. Relying on calling the source names only makes your argument weaker, in my opinion.

For instance, Hillary called into legal difficulties over private server? Reported on by many right-wing sources. And many other sources, I might add. Could it happen? I can see many reasons why an average person would already be in hot water over this, big hot water. The best thing she has in her favor is that she's Hillary Clinton. That, in itself, is a very elitist point of view. Help us with a populist Democratic message? Not so much. Weaken her candidacy? Very well could. Capable of being discussed rationally on DU? NO, apparently not!

[DanTex]

50. You are defending the use of it on DU. And, yes I am attacking people who link to right-wing media.

And, yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as right-wing media. And, yes, it does get linked to a lot here. And, no, the right wing media does not report the facts honestly.

The reason people link to right-wing media so much is very obvious. If something were actually true, they'd be able to find it in non-right wing media. But Hillary bashers want to smear her with lies that they know are not true, and only appear on right-wing media.

And it's particularly true with respect to emails/Benghazi. The right-wing media is constantly reporting that she's about to get indicted, and they have unnamed "legal experts" talking about how criminal her actions were. Despite being false, it suits the agenda of the Bernie or Busters.

[highprincipleswork]

59. Is this too right-wing for you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html?_r=0

[LanternWaste]

49. This isn't new to DU. We've been criticizing posters for voting their conviction and conscious since

This isn't new to DU. We've been criticizing posters for voting their conviction and conscious since 2004. Every primary, some self-appointed prophet of reality informs us to vote as he sees fit else the apocalypse. The only original word/idea you've added this time around is 'Trump."

Your post only validates the criticisms Sander's supporters hits us with. And your post deserves those hits. As a Clinton supporter myself, my only suggestion to you in assisting her election is to think more and speak a LOT less. But again, that's simply a suggestion.

[DanTex]

52. No, Naderism is not new to DU. In fact, it is foundational, because if Nader hadn't succeeded in

throwing the election to W, DU might not even exist, at least not in its current form.

[Philly-Union-Man]

53. Ridiculous. Gore WON the fucking election.

And it's kind of ironic that you say New Deal Democrats want Republicans to win when you're supporting Clinton, a Reaganite.

I'm gong to vote for her if I have to but only because of social issues. I'll take no pleasure in it.

[katsy]

54. Pretty divisive and nasty post.

the FL democrats and the SC gave us bush. Naderites had no such power. Registered democrats did this. Floridians did this. I know I lived there during that fiasco.

There's enough nastiness in this world without blowing this primary contest way out of proportion.

We have 2 great candidates and we all want ours to win. That's all this is.

Fucking treating other democrats worse than you treat republicans. Fuck this noise.

[mrdmk]

56. Thank you for the wonderful post, 3 more posters on ignore

Keep up the good work

[NCTraveler]

58. Fuck Nader Nt