Bernie's young supporters are very misguided.

[Armstead]

Perhaps one of the biggest reasons millennials have such a sympathetic view of socialism is because they don’t understand that “free” isn’t really free. ...

Even those who realize all government has to be paid for some way, whether it be through taxes, borrowing or inflation, always seem to think it’s someone else bearing the cost. If you put two socialists in a room, each would think it’s the other one paying for everything.


Sure, socialists like Bernie Sanders want to raise taxes on the rich to pay for their schemes. But his fans always seem to forget the rich aren’t rich enough to fund everything he wants. They’re going to be bearing the cost too.

Source -- Not the Clinton campaign. The website of former GOP ultra conservative Cong. Allen B. West.

https://www.allenbwest.com/2016/02/this-is-what-liberals-tweet-when-they-finally-realize-who-pays-for-government-free-stuff/

But it sure sound a lot like the Clinton campaign and some Clinton supporters here.

[JoePhilly]

1. How many Clinton supporters linked to it as a source?

Or are you the first to link to that nut job's website ?

[virtualobserver]

4. if Hillary supporters are using the precise language of the right, it isn't about links.

[JoePhilly]

13. So no links?

[CorporatistNation]

38. WHO... Is Mis-Guided?

[Armstead]

5. Not that....But this

and read the comments
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1568975

[JoePhilly]

14. So no links to that source?

[RANGERMAN89]

10. Just got off a post

Were I thought I was reading a Paul Ryan stump speech but it turnedout to be a Hillary supporter talking about Bernie Sanders supporters as "lazy unemployed kids"

[JoePhilly]

12. So no links?

[Armstead]

15. I gave you a link

REad the OP and note the source and then read some of the comments.

EXACTLY the same sentiment

[JoePhilly]

16. But not from Allen West ... just you trying to ...

... connect some dots (badly) to a RW nut job.

Meanwhile, Sanders supporters are regularly linking to RW nut jobs to attack Hillary.

And yet you link to a RW nut job to then claim that he "sounds like" some one who supporters Hillary.

Here's an idea ... promote Bernie ... maybe that would get him more delegates than this nonsense.

[Armstead]

18. Read the damn Thread I was referring to

Cato Institute...."free stuff"....further down Clinton supporters yukking it up about how the kids want "free stuff"


And I post plenty of positive Bernie stuff. But I got mad reading so many supposed Democrats talking about ponies and "free stuff"

[RANGERMAN89]

20. Hahaha no way

It's literally the same link I was about to post I won't waste my time reposting for someone who is literally posting "where is the link" on a post with a link

[CorporatistNation]

41. Consider Just Who Is Lost Here... Bernie Supporters? I Think NOT!

[Jackie Wilson Said]

2. The corporate structure of this country is very much in control and will fight hard to keep

it that way.

Bernie or no Bernie, it will be a very long time before that changes because we have allowed that structure to infiltrate and poison our politics.

[haikugal]

3. Why yes, yes it does!

[hollysmom]

6. so now quoting right wing blogs is a good thing?

why do it?

[djean111]

7. I don't even like reading that headline - almost trashed it! :-)

[Armstead]

9. I posted this after reading a thread with very similar comments from supposed Democrats

[arcane1]

11. Good catch! n/t

[grasswire]

8. maybe their FDR-voting grandparents were "misguided" too nt

[kath]

21. Yes. My dad, the son of a man who was a union organizer in the little mill towns upriver from

Pittsburgh in the '30s and '40s, grew up in a crappy little apartment where a photo of FDR hung on a living room wall.

man, those people were SERIOUSLY misguided.

[ladjf]

17. This OP is as full of holes as swiss cheese. It is exactly the same old hackneyed unfounded

bull that has been preached in American Politics, largely the Republicans,for years.

If you are so dead set on using "logic" then bear this in mind, if Capitalism is not brought under control relatively soon, the environment itself will most definitely collapse to the point of mass extinction
of plants and animals rendering the Earth uninhabitable for the remaining 5 billion years of it's life
expectency.

The OP author says "... they don't understand tat 'free isn't really free'".

It is the politicians who are busy fattening their net worth by allowing Corporations to do whatever they
choose to make MONEY. Meanwhile, they have forgotten, 'free isn't really free'. The natural resources can' be abused and depleted and the weather can't be allowed to flood the Continents.(13 million homes will be flooded by 2100 due to sea level rise.) 'free isn't really free'.

The author of the OP should stop telling young people not to believe Bernie because he is offering them something that isn't free while if they don't get behind some smart leader, Capitalism will
wipe life out. Remember, Capitalism has only one prime directive which is "MAKE AS MUCH MONEY
AS FAST AS POSSIBLE REGARDLESS OF THE COST TO THE QUALITY OF LIFE ON EARTH"
Capitalism is a machine that does not care about humanity.

Bernie is an intelligent caring human who is willing to lead us if we want him to.
Hillary is a artful fundraiser whose life pattern as been similar to the Capitalism's prime directive,
make as much money as possible regardless of the cost to the quality of life.

[Armstead]

23. Read the bottom line of the OP

[Zen Democrat]

19. Screw that. Everything is free for the Exxons of this world.

They pay nothing and the taxpayers pay their share and the kickbacks. It's called the oil depletion allowance and Kennedy tried to get rid of it while he was in office.

There's so much corporate and billionaire welfare going on that it makes my blood boil when people say we can't "afford" to feed the hungry, provide medical care as a right, or give our kids an education without them being in debt $100,000+ upon graduation, with no jobs!

It's a matter of priorities. Bernie is not a socialist who wants the government to own everything, he's an FDR Democratic Socialist at a time when people need a New Deal or a Financial Revolution or whatever to call it. The Government = The People and it's time the government was directed toward people's needs instead of rewarding fat cats for owning politicians.

Hillary isn't going to do anything to fundamentally change the status quo - she's Third Way. It'll just get worse.

[Karma13612]

45. Bravo!! +20 Eom

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

22. Military spending is through the roof.

It would be great if 25% of that could be spent on the citizenry instead of pork barrel weapon systems that are broken even before they are completed.

[NCTraveler]

24. Judicial Watch has been touted here more than once in the last couple of days.

All by "Sanders" supporters unless I have missed something. And this is the direction you are going?

[Armstead]

25. Please read this thread and the comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1568975

Unfortunately the sentiments expressed are not a rarity these days.

I don't condone most of the Judicial Watch stuff. But at least that is not denigrating the basic principles of liberalism with right wing memes.

[NCTraveler]

27. I read the op. Nt

[Armstead]

28. Please read the comments too...That's what I was also referring to

[desmiller]

26. Sounds like Hammer is trying to make a comeback.

[MisterP]

29. Old Economy Steve's mad!

[libdem4life]

30. The 60s are back and we want our tie dyes and VW vans back. Remember?

"Don't come knockin if this van's rockin'" LOL. We weren't known as the Boomers then...just the anti-war ingrates. Another LOL.

[Downwinder]

31. Education system is breaking down Not indoctrinating

people properly. Hard to get the desired Stockholm effect.

[Dragonfli]

32. That's because Republican think tanks and professional propagandists experienced a major brain drain

To fill the ranks of Clinton;s political machine and Propaganda super-PAC (The one that works and coordinates directly with the campaign) - a thing illegal unless you are named Clinton. In order to Help her lie, cheat and steal her way to the presidency.

Some of the slimiest lie merchants, lobby groups, financial wall St. grifters, and Republican think tanks are short some of their best (or worst depending upon how you look at it) employees because they are currently under her employ, some are even paid surreptitiously by "the foundation" slush fund/money laundering outfit.

It is a damn shame that the majority of the population find her (or recognize her) as one of the most dishonest and corrupted politicians known to them, that combined with a pure seething hatred of her by Republicans involving two generalizations now (that will set records for the privilege of voting against her) may very well put an ape-like fascist of a man in the white house as well as losing us most or many down ticket races due to record Republican turnout against her and apathy among left of center Independents and young voters that will be watching Netflix or cat videos on election night depressing what could be the opposite.

That opposite, bringing us instead (Record Democratic youth and Independent turnout) if Sanders is our standard bearer, is because most of the people feel the opposite of him, considering him the most honest and incorruptible politicians known to them and most of them believe he will fight for the middle and lower classes, rather than the upper middle classes, cocktail crowd, and billionaire classes they believe she would fight for. Which would crush the Trump ape/fascist in a General election.

The only group where even half (the cast off Republican "new Democrat" half) like her only comprise approx. 30% of the population, IOW the Democrats, and the half of them still more recognizable as Democrats rather than converted Republicans will only vote for her while gagging on their own vomit as they use a clothespin to cover the stench of voting against their own interest because of the sulfur smell of voting the slightly less evil demon they know will bring with her more bloodshed as an unholy creature born of Bush and Kissinger doctrines regarding foreign policy.

The New Democrat Coalition loves her, and among the establishment, her infamous "hit list" book full of threats and bribes along with cheating has been exploited to it's highest extremes to get her ahead in the party primary (that along with a Clinton over Sanders bias in the purchased media whose moguls are contributors to her campaign).

Using all of these sleazy employees, dirty tricks, and lies, can likely with the help of documented cheating and a Rovian campaign gain her a small percentage victory among the 30% of the entire population that the Democratic party represents, and thus the Democratic nomination, but will fail her in the GE and leave us with a disaster in the form of a barely hominid Fascist President. Along with a down-ticket disaster that will resemble 2014

Goddess help us all.


ETA: I started the response to your post to explain why a Republican blurb about Sanders sounds nearly identical to a Clinton blurb about Sanders and then just couldn't stop writing, sorry for ramblimg on so - Denny

[dana_b]

43. bravo!!

you spouted everything that is my head and more.

[Dragonfli]

44. It's important to spout that Clinton puss from your brain regularly, or the risk of infection

and permanent brain damage could harm your mind.

I am quite pleased to be of some assistance helping you spout it out.

[UglyGreed]

33. Spot on

Third way thinking has ruined the Democratic party......

[Onlooker]

34. The NRA endorsed Sanders in 1992, and like Sanders opposed the Brady Bill so Sanders=NRA

My point is simply an analogy to your twisted nonsense. Posting something offensive and claiming it sounds like its something Clinton supporters would say without providing evidence is just complete crap.

[Armstead]

40. Well "fre stuff" seems to be a mantra among some Clinton supporters today...

ae are the claims that that's all millennials are looking for from Sanders......therefore this is not a very big leap

[Art_from_Ark]

35. Perhaps the good Congressman can set an example,

and give up all of these free perks he gets as a Congressman.

OFFICES, FURNITURE, & DISCOUNT SHOPPING PRIVILEGES:
A seat in Congress comes with office space -- lots of it. Not only do members move into an office on Capitol Hill, they maintain space in their home districts and states too. For senators, this benefit has a pretty high cap - up to 8,200 square feet. The Congressional Research Service (CRS) report says there is "no restriction" on the number of offices they can open in federal buildings in their home states. Plus senators get to shop at the equivalent of Congress' IKEA -- furniture supplied through the Architect of the Capitol. Every senator gets $40,000 -- and potentially more -- for furniture in their home-state offices.

BONUS TAX DEDUCTION:
Members of Congress can deduct up to $3,000 for expenses while outside their home districts or states.

STAFF

HOUSE: Representatives are allowed to spend more than $900,000 on salaries for up to 18 permanent employees.
personal staff allowances vary with the size of the members' states. For 2009, the maximum salary for a staffer in a member's personal office was $168,411 in the House.

SENATE: Senators enjoy the same privilege but get a much bigger allowance for their office expenses. According to a Congressional Research Service report, the average allocation for fiscal 2010 was more than $3.3 million. Personnel money varies, depending upon how big of a state a senator represents -- a senator from New York is going to get more than a senator from Montana. But for starters, each senator is given a $500,000 budget to hire up to three (3) legislative assistants.

Senators may hire as many aides as they wish within their allowance; typically this ranges between 26 and 60, depending on the size of the state and the salary levels offered to the staffers. Committee staffers, in certain instances, may be eligible for a slightly higher salary than regular staff.

TRANSFERRING MONEY:
Up to $75,000 of a representative's staff funds can be transferred to his or her official expense account for use in other categories, such as computer and "related services".

EXPENSE ALLOWANCES:
Expense Allowances for members, kept separate from personal staff allowances, cover domestic travel, stationery, newsletters, overseas postage, telephone and telegraph service, and other expenses in Washington and in the members' state or congressional districts.

FREE POSTAGE
The Franking Privilege, a valuable perquisite, allows a member to mail official letters and packages under the members' signature without charges for postage. Members of Congress may send official mail to constituents at government expense. Though they are not permitted to send election materials, borderline material is often sent, especially in the run-up to an election by those in close races. Many consider that the free mailings give political incumbents a big advantage over challengers.

FREE DOMESTIC TRAVEL:

Domestic Travel Allowances (to and from District/State)

HOUSE: Included in office expenses is a minimum amount of $9,700 (2003), with additional funding based on a formula that uses the distance from Washington, DC to the farthest point in the Congressional district from Washington.

SENATE: The official expense allowance is based overall on population and distance, and includes travel.

FREE FOREIGN TRAVEL
Foreign Travel by members for the conduct of government business is financed through special allowances. These funds can come from various sources.

WORKDAYS:
The Senate has averaged about three working days on Capitol Hill - three-and-a-half if you count Monday nights. Plus there are several breaks, which Congress calls "work periods," penciled in the calendar throughout the year. This year, members of Congress returned to their districts for a Presidents Day break, a spring break, a Memorial Day break, an Independence Day break and a summer break. Sept. Congress is about to adjourn again until early November so members can campaign. Of course, that's good old-fashioned time off for senators not up for re-election this year.

http://www.the-office.com/545.htm

[DanTex]

37. So, you've been reading right-wing web sites... Shocking!

[Armstead]

39. Actually I was just borrowing from your posts

[DanTex]

42. LOL. Yes, all my posts where I quote Allen West. What happened to you?