The defenders of our "clean" election system are contradicting Clinton's own words

[Armstead]

It has become a tactic of deflection to cite the letter of campaign finance laws to deny that Clinton's campaign could possibly be supported by Big Money interests.

Like we have a system in which no campaign or politician can be unduly influenced by Big Corporate Support. As if no politician does "workarounds" and other diversions that allow Big Bidness and their lobbyists to unduly influence our political process -- and the operation of government.

This argument contradicts even the "conventional wisdom" of the mainstream for years....Long before Citizens United.

Even, Clinton disagrees with that stupid argument (at least publicly) on her own website.

www.hillaryclinton.com

“We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”

HILLARY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2015

[2pooped2pop]

1. Truth contradicts Clinton

All day, every day

[Armstead]

4. 24/7 it sometimes seems

[tk2kewl]

2. It's all part of the smoke and mirrors

You're not supposed to look any deeper

[Armstead]

3. yeah not even as deep as Clinton 's own admission about the system...

on her own damn website.

It's really turning into Alice in Wonderland....ooops. Is that sexist?

[DanTex]

5. Bernie lied about her getting money from the fossil fuel industry. It's not "deflection".

It's the truth. No corporation in the energy industry or any other industry has supplied her campaign with a dime. It's all individual money, and Bernie knows this, but he intentionally tried to shade the truth for political gain.

[Armstead]

6. Yes Dan. And in Washington Corporations have no power.

All all legislation is pure as the driven snow with no influence buying

[DanTex]

7. Sure, they have power. But that doesn't excuse Bernie's lie.

They also have power over people like Bernie, by the way. You don't think he voted for gun industry immunity because he actually thought it was a good idea, do you?

[Armstead]

8. Dan your defense of this is based on a core fallacy about how the system works

I think you're smart enough to understand that, but you choose not for political purposes.

And Bernie's stance on guns -- which is NOT that different than Clinton -- reflects the views of the PEOPLE in his state. The gun lobby has nothing to do with it.

[DanTex]

9. The defense is based on the simple fact that Bernie lied or at the very least intentionally gave a

false impression. You're trying to excuse his flagrant dishonesty by vaguely floating the fact that there's generally too much money in politics, but that doesn't fly. Bernie tells a lie, he owns the lie. There is too much money in politics, but the tiny amount that Hillary raised from people who work in the energy industry is not evidence of any kind of corruption.

[Armstead]

10. Okay then this should be easy for her to do

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/20-organizations-ask-presidential-candidates-sign-fix-democracy-pledge/


Bernie Sanders became the first presidential candidate to sign a new pledge launched today asking all major candidates to support a people-powered democracy and reject campaign contributions from the fossil fuel industry.


© Greenpeace / Robert Meyers
“From the halls of Congress to the presidential campaign trail, politicians are taking money from mega industries like the fossil fuel industry, and prioritizing corporations over constituents. At the same time, many in power are making it harder for the poor, communities of color, the elderly, and students to vote in the first place. We need to get money out and people into our democracy,” said Annie Leonard, Executive Director at Greenpeace USA.

“A critical way for candidates to show they support a people-powered democracy is by rejecting fossil fuel money and supporting voters rights. So far only Bernie Sanders has agreed to fossil fuel-free funding and protection of voters rights. It’s time for Hillary Clinton and anyone with serious White House aspirations to match Sander’’s leadership. Our democracy has to stop being sold at auction to the highest bidders,” said Leonard.

More than 20 organizations and individuals from advocacy, to academia, to business have signed onto the letter to all the major presidential candidates asking they take the pledge. Organizations include Greenpeace, 350.org, Center for Biological Diversity, Center for Popular Democracy, Climate Justice Alliance, Climate Parents, Common Cause, Democracy Initiative, Energy Action Coalition, Food and Water Watch, Friends of the Earth, Indigenous Environmental Network, Labor Network for Sustainability, Oil Change International, People for the American Way, Public Citizen, Rainforest Action Network, SumOfUs, US Rebel Alliance, and US Student Association. Additional individuals who have signed on include activist and 350 founder Bill McKibben, author Colin Beavan, columnist and author Jim Hightower, former Dean of Yale’s School of Forestry and Environmental Studies Gus Speth, and Ben Cohen of Ben & Jerry’s Ice Cream.

The pledge to #fixdemocracy that was sent to candidates reads as following:

I pledge allegiance to a democracy of, by, and for the people.

If elected, I pledge to fight for a people-powered democracy where every voice is heard

By defending the right to vote for all, and

Supporting common-sense measures like public funding for campaigns and overturning Citizens United to ensure a government by and for the people, not the biggest donors.

And I will prove that I work for the people by refusing money from fossil fuel interests and by championing these solutions for a people powered democracy on the campaign trail.

Read the full letter:

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Candidate-letter-General.pdf

Nearly every Republican presidential candidate receives a substantial contribution from the fossil fuel industry — either directly or via a super PAC. On the Democratic ticket, Hillary Clinton receives money connected to the fossil fuel industry via industry lobbyists who have bundled contributions to the campaign. GOP hopefuls Governor Jeb Bush and Senator Ted Cruz and Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton are the top three beneficiaries of contributions from oil and gas employees.

[DanTex]

11. Haven't seen that, but I would advise her to wait for Greenpeace to retract their dishonest

statements about her before signing anything of theirs.

[Armstead]

14. They issued this in January...long before the present dustup

[dsc]

17. by Greenpeace's own standards he violated it

he has also taken contributions from employees of the fossil fuel industry which they are counting against Clinton in their numbers.

[Armstead]

19. If he did, Greenpeace would be all over him like a cheap suit

They not exactly shrinking violets. And they are not politically correct.

If they felt that Sanders was violating the pledge, they'd be saying so.

Why is it so hard to acknowledge that we have a SYSTEMIC PROBLEM in which lobbyists and campaign contributions and Big Business, Wall St. and the Billionaire Class has too much damn influence in our political system?



As noted in the OP, even, Clinton disagrees with that stupid argument (at least publicly) on her own website.

www.hillaryclinton.com

“We have to end the flood of secret, unaccountable money that is distorting our elections, corrupting our political system, and drowning out the voices of too many everyday Americans. Our democracy should be about expanding the franchise, not charging an entrance fee.”

HILLARY, SEPTEMBER 8, 2015

[dsc]

20. in their own figures they ding Hillary for contributions to her campaign from donors

related to the fossil fuel industry. He has less from them but he did get some. He violated their pledge by their standards.

[Henhouse]

18. Bernie signed the pledge and, by his definition of fossil fuel contributions, has violated it....n/t

[amborin]

12. KNR

[NCTraveler]

13. Agree with Clinton. Nt

[Armstead]

16. I agree with Clinton's statement on her website

The contrary claims that our system is so clean that the involvement of lobbyists and bundlers and Pacs and SuperPacs make no difference....not so much.

[azmom]

15. kick