2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWorld's Second Largest Investor, Vanguard, Is Socialist
Ive been watching Bernie Sanders describe himself as a democratic socialist these months and wanting to shout at him that that isnt quite what he means. Over here in Europe, given that we live rather closer to properly socialist states and also came rather closer to it ourselves were perhaps a bit more attuned to the niceties of the nomenclature here. Democratic socialism was the way that the Trotskyites described themselves. The inner core of the party would vote on things, thats the democracy, and then everyone else would have to do what they said or get shot which isnt quite socialism but is what they meant. What Bernie actually means is what we over here call social democracy, some variant of which exists in just about all of the Western European countries. A largely capitalist and market based economy but with a higher tax rate than the U.S., the revenues from which are used to buy nice things for the voters. Free college education, free child care, free family leave and so on. Of course, none of these things are free; theyre just tax financed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/02/10/memo-for-bernie-worlds-second-largest-investor-vanguard-is-socialist/#2b62a8a62ccb
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)By definition, it is not. I wouldn't recommend Forbes as a source on anything that is actually socialist.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The shareholders own the company itself. Credit unions are also socialist, as are co-ops and employee-owned companies.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)If it were socialist, the *workers* would 'own' the companies the mutual fund is trading, not the shareholders. The shareholders are profiting because of worker exploitation. This is the basically opposite of socialism.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Since only its traders own its trading capital...
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Or maybe you're just fucking with me.
But either way, I don't really think I want to talk about economic theory in GDP on a Saturday night anymore.
delrem
(9,688 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)and something that a lot of Team Sanders doesn't really seem to get.
revbones
(3,660 posts)think Bernie wants to nationalize all industry in the US.
TheBlackAdder
(28,225 posts).
I love the Tea Party ilitary guys down my street who try to explain away their socialist job, their socialist pension at age 42, their property tax credit, and especially their secondary defense contractor jobs paying six-figures... all while they tap into the exchanges and subsudized commissary. Capitalism is just an illusion.
The problem is that those in power wrote the tax rules to benefit them. Small Business, Xe making over $30Billion is a small business, so is Koch Industries, so it multi-national KPMG, etc. They just need less than 100 owners. So when you hear about protecting 'small business' that's not who they are talking about, they want you to think about the mom&pop store, but really there are multiple tiers to the tax code that most small business can't take advantage of.
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beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This is another one of his articles:
Food Stamp Eligibility And The Keynesian Welfare Ratchet
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)and yes, having studied the Danon lawsuit I know better than most about its inverted corporate structure.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They are scouring the internet looking for hit pieces and don't care what they drag back here.