Bill's attack on the BLM protesters: fair & defensible, or not?

[Ken Burch]

An good intro, for those who haven't yet heard about this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1675780

Corollary question: If Bill had done this two days before Super Tuesday, what effect do you think it would have had on the results in those states?

69 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Fair and Defensible
	7 (10%)
	Unfair and Indefensible
	62 (90%)
	Not Sure
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. This is will go down in history as one of Bill's worse moments.

Last edited Fri Apr 8, 2016, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

And that's really saying something.

[uponit7771]

3. "when you talk about ghettos traditionally, what you talk about is African-American communities. "

[morningfog]

4. Did Bill say that? You seem confused.

[uponit7771]

5. No, Sanders did

[morningfog]

7. Oh, you are confused. This is about Bill Clinton's racist rant.

[iwannaknow]

17. I thought it was Trump

[Nye Bevan]

6. Wow. That's the worst quote I've seen today (nt)

[morningfog]

8. No it isn't and your positions on race are far too suspect to take you seriously.

[Nye Bevan]

9. And associating "ghettos" with "African American communities" is not "suspect" at all.

No Siree Bob.

[morningfog]

10. Compared to you and Bill CLinton? No.

[Nye Bevan]

13. Well at least you're being more civil than last time.

[morningfog]

14. Was that the last time? Can't be. How time flies. Yet nothing changes.

[MineralMan]

15. Jury Results

On Fri Apr 8, 2016, 09:44 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Well at least you're being more civil than last time.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1679506

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Offensive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Apr 8, 2016, 09:53 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is equivalent to a direct quote. I wouldn't hide a direct quote, so I can't find the logic behind hiding this post.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster wrote it. He owned it. I am disappointed in both posters, though. Private conversations should remain just that unless they include a credible physical threat.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Your own words are offensive, morningfog? Good, glad you think so.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's the DU Mail that is offensive. Posting it, not so much. DUers CAN post DU Mail they have received. This one deserves to be posted, IMO.

[Nye Bevan]

16. Thanks MM (nt)

[noiretextatique]

26. Ghettos are associated with African Americans

As a black person, I have no problem with Bernie talking about that reality. I do have a problem with Hillary blocking a wage increase for Haitian garment workers.

[uponit7771]

35. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE: Racist think ghettos are associated with blacks and persist its meme

... even though 3/4 of blacks aren't poor and even most of the poor blacks don't live in "ghettos"

That fact not in dispute is not relevant to skin color either

[noiretextatique]

42. This is just silly...have you read his racial justice plank?

It is very comphrensive. The problem of poverty among AA's is as disproportional as are all the other statistics. I think that reality is more important than mentioning wealthy or middle-class black people everytime he mentions poverty. Yeah...it sucks that Clarence Thomas can't get a cab.

[uponit7771]

55. Irrelevant, it could've been written by Malcom X himself and the statement is still racist & urtful

[noiretextatique]

59. Get the f outta here

What's hurtful and racist is the reality of mass incarceration, entrenched poverty and racism. And the fact that some Democrats are as bad or worse than republicons on those issues. 1 million people are losing food stamps because of Clintons welfare reform, and you are whinimg about hurt feelings over the use of a word. Whatthefuckever.

[uponit7771]

60. red herring, nothing to do with the ghetto statement

[vintx]

36. And this post is met with silence.

Seriously it is amazing how well those blinders work.

[uponit7771]

37. I replied to the racist meme, now what?!

[vintx]

39. The fact that Hillary's supporters are more concerned with putting on a show

about how not racist they are, and demonstrating this by ranting about how racist it is to associate ghettos with inner city poverty, which disproportionately affects black people - while simultaneously ignoring substantive issues with which Hillary has repeatedly demonstrated her lack of concern with the issues of poverty OR race - is a sight to behold.

Not a good thing, but amazing nonetheless.

[uponit7771]

40. Strawman, no one is concerned about putting on anything. That meme is racist on its face, Red..

... herrings aren't going to change that

[vintx]

41. Substance is a red herring - but parsing words is meaningful.

Up really is down in shillary-land.

[noiretextatique]

46. And fng Bill Clinton gets a pass, and Haiti?! Claims it didn't happen

Both Clintons worked to stop a wage increase for garment workers, some of poorest people in the world. This poster claims there must be more to the story, but heaven forbid Bernie used the word ghetto. The hypocrisy is stunning.

[uponit7771]

57. Nope, Clinton doesn't get a pass on anything.. he's just been there, so at least he'll argue with us

... for more than 10 mins and do it with dignity instead of lookin at folks like they stink.

The BLM folk didn't give Clinton a pass at all and some of the things he said helped and hurt but again, he's there... not having someone who called Obama niggerized last year stump for him in IA

[noiretextatique]

47. Read the comment about Haitian garment workers

If it is true...I am sure there is more to the story...blah, blah, blah. But let's harp on the word ghetto endlessly, and give the Clintons a pass for making sure Haitian workers remain poor. Total hypocrisy.

[uponit7771]

58. "if its true..." sigh...

[uponit7771]

56. Substance isn't associating blacks with ghettos, that's stupidity

[noiretextatique]

61. No comment about the racism in Haiti?

Only fools believe he associates blacks with ghettos...really.

[uponit7771]

62. Got a link, can't find anything on this nothingburger

[noiretextatique]

43. This after Bill's racially-charged meltdown

And they still are harping about a single fng word.

[XemaSab]

67. Yesterday I posted that the Clintons' chief campaign strategy is tone policing

This is a good example.

"Oooooh, Bernie used a historically loaded word in a possibly slightly thoughtless way! He's a racist and not fit to be president! Oooooh!"

(Never mind the fact that Bernie is undoubtedly aware that the original term "ghetto" referred to the segregated Jewish neighborhood. Are the Clintons aware of this? Maybe, maybe not.)

Meanwhile, the Clintons can yammer on about how BLM is all about defending 13-year-old crack-addicted superpredators who are killing each other, and that's just straight talk from them, right?

The Clintons are all about discussing word choice and tone of voice because they know they're not on the winning side of the issues.

[noiretextatique]

75. Another Sistah Souljah moment for Bill?

In hopes of attracting the racially insensitive?

[morningfog]

11. You voted fair and defensible, yet you have been outspoken when it comes to racially insensitive

comments. How was his racist rant fair or defensible? What is the defense?

[uponit7771]

32. Yeap, Clinton gets the benefit of the doubt. Someone who had a person who called Obama niggerized

... stump for him in front of mostly white IA and NH does NOT get the benefit of the doubt.

See the difference?

tia

[noiretextatique]

44. Clinton gets the benefit of doubt...WHY?

Because he's a Clinton?

[uponit7771]

52. Cause they didn't have someone who called Obama niggerized stump for them in front of mostly white

... people

[noiretextatique]

54. Superpredators! How soon you forget

And there he was defending that racist bullshit yesterday. That was the former president and candidate's husband, not some college professor who you cannot forgive.

[uponit7771]

70. Not talking about Black's how awfully racist for some to think she was

[morningfog]

51. Yes. You practice racist apologia in defense of your candidate,

and are an absolutist for the other. That is an incredibly disingenuous position to hold. You lose any credibility on race issues when you bend depending on the speaker.

[itsrobert]

24. I think Bill should apologize for that

or Camp Pinocchio might jump on him.

[uponit7771]

33. Nah, after listening to him his defense sounded reasonable

[noiretextatique]

77. Reasonable.

Sad.

[uponit7771]

78. Podium bird logic = reasonable is the sad... sigh

[Ken Burch]

25. trivial compared to defending mass incarceration

and accusing BLM of defending murderers.

And Bernie didn't say that ALL AA communities could be called "ghettos&quot btw, Bernie is Jewish, and the term "ghetto" was first used to describe the neighborhoods European Jews were segregated into). That was what the AA community itself used to describe some, but not all, predominately AA neighborhoods in the 1960's and early '70s.

Is it really any different than the term "the 'hood" today?

[noiretextatique]

27. Any comments on Hillary blocking a wage increase

For Haitian garment workers?

[uponit7771]

34. Nope, she doesn't think podium birds mean too much of anything so it sounds like her decisions

... are rational and pragmatic.

I'm sure this is not portraying the whole story about her decision, typical

[noiretextatique]

45. What? Is this the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears?

Google it yourself. This supposed friend of Black people blocked a wage increase for Haitian garment workers to help US clothing manufacturers. That's a fact. Typical Clinton two-faced BS.

[uponit7771]

53. Nah, just looking at how people react to podium birds and deciding accordingly

[TheFarS1de]

63. You sure love that bird

[Ken Burch]

65. The bird thing has nothing to do with this.

And it wasn't silly.

Why are you fighting so hard for the much more conservative candidate, especially since Bill's rant proves they don't care about you?

Nothing Bernie ever said or did could possibly be worse than Bill and Hill's record of appeasing white supremacists.

[Ken Burch]

49. There is no "nuance" that makes it acceptable to oppose wage increases in Haiti

A country where the vast majority of people are essentially paid nothing for their labor. A country where HRC essentially supported the coup against Aristede, the democratic elected leader, and then colluded in rigging the last Haitian election to guarantee a victory for the most right-wing, anti-worker, antigay candidate in the race.

It's as though HRC thinks Haitians owe it to us to be offshore slaves. There's no other way to describe it.

Decent wages for Haitian workers were never going to do any harm to the U.S. economy. We have an obligation to let that country achieve social and economic justice.

[noiretextatique]

50. +1000 the hypocrisy on this issue is stunning

Here's a black person who harps on Bernie's use of a word, but has nothing to say about Haiti...nothing, but some vague insinuation that it is not true. Just pathetic.

[beedle]

66. When you talk about ghettos

in America, what traditionally do you think you are talking about?

Or are you one of those who really believe that going after 'super predators' was a dog whistle for Wall St. Speculators?

[uponit7771]

71. Poor places...southy Boston... West Virginia... The "unexposed" only think about Blacks

...cause of the white supremacists stereo type

[beedle]

72. So then Sanders is right

when he talks about poverty as being the main issue?

Remember, when he talked about Ghettos, it was in response to always being criticized that he never mentions Blacks when he talks about poverty.

He talks about poverty and he is criticized that he isn't talking about race in regards to poverty, so he starts to talk about race as it regards pvoerty and he gets criticized that he is protraying poverty as just a 'racial' thing.

In the meantime Hillary is looking out for the elites who cause this problem whether you look at it through a lens of poverty OR race. And she gets credit while doing absolutely nothing except spouting platitudes ... every decision she has made, every ;aw she has supported, every war she has cheered on, does nothing but harm minorities.

[uponit7771]

73. No, when you think about ghettos only the unexposed and racist think about blacks...

... cause that's just ignorant.

I'm saving all the post who are still trying to defend that dumb ass'd statement too... ya'll to prone to amensia

[beedle]

74. Ignorance?

or

“What I mean to say is that this is and has always been a white problem of violence,” Jones continued. “There’s not much that we can do [as black people] to stop the violence against us.”

That’s when the conversation got awkward.

“Respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems,” Clinton snapped back, eliciting a wide-eyed look of horror from Daunasia Yancey, the founder of Black Lives Matter in Boston who was standing directly to Hillary Clinton’s left.

or try googling pictures of "American Ghettos". From your comment I fully expected to see pages and pages of Irish

https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22Hillary+Clinton%22+Ghetto&espv=2&biw=1855&bih=881&tbs=cdr:1,cd_max:2015-01-01&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlvo3G8oTMAhWJPD4KHTuaDfs4ChD8BQgGKAE#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_max:2015-01-01&tbm=isch&q=%22American+Ghettos%22


or this from http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/ghetto.aspx

Ghettos in the United States are generally defined as poor inner-city areas where a disproportionate percentage of ethnic minorities reside. Although African Americans are generally associated with ghettos, Hispanics and whites also live in them.

[geek tragedy]

18. shut the fuck up, Bill

you're not helping Hillary, or yourself, or anyone.

[Cheese Sandwich]

22. No, keep talking Big Dawg!

[Ken Burch]

31. Thanks for that. n/t.

[B2G]

19. Imagine if Trump had said the exact same thing.

Not ONE person here would be defending him.

Not one.

[vintx]

38. And this is the defining characteristic of the segment of the electorate

which has fueled the third way movement

They think things which Republicans would be excoriated for are fine and dandy as long as it's a dem doing it.

[Rebkeh]

20. I thought it was disgusting

Divide and conquer, stir up conflict so we don't talk about the issues.



God forbid we talk about the issues!
(She would lose if we did)

Edited to add:

What Bill did was trolling in its finest form, it's also a republican tactic. They are making it harder and harder to come to their defense when they are (occasionally) right.

[Cheese Sandwich]

21. good. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. Ha. And now they're throwing BLM under the bus in The Hive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110795039

"You damn sure don't try to drown out popular former President Bill Clinton because he won't put up with your BS and will make feel like you need to find a dark hole to climb into."

[Marrah_G]

29. There should be a third oprion: "Incredibly stupid"

[TexasBushwhacker]

30. +1000 n/t

[jmg257]

48. nevermind. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

64. There's no excuse

[beedle]

68. Watching MSBC this morning

They had a panel on to discuss the Bill vs BLM issue ... the did the whole fucking segment without so much as actually letting anyone know what Bill actually said, didn't mention BLM at all ... the only thing being discussed was Bernie and how many ways this was a knock on him.

How Bernie voted for the bill as well (without mentioning his speech explaining why and warning of the obvious problems and where they would lead to); How Bernie saying Bill should apologise will hurt him with Blacks(?); etc.

Then the next segment was suppose to be a follow on regarding the issues with the crime bill ... again, without mentioning Bill or Hillary and only talking about Bernie.

Joy got her redearch direct from the Clinton camp. How fucking embarrassing.

[Octafish]

69. The codes and condescension weren't only for that audience.

[grasswire]

76. after seeing this video of Hillary's Saturday night racist jokes...

I'll have to conclude that nothing they do is defensible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511705048