2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders: Bill Clinton, "owes the American people an apology"...
...for his defense of Hillary's use of "super predators".
We all know what the term meant in the context that it was said years ago, Sanders said after the applause died down. We know who they were talking about.
Black people, yelled someone in the audience.
Thats exactly right, Sanders said, and I think the president owes the American people an apology for trying to defend whats indefensible....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/09/bernie-sanders-tells-a-crowd-in-harlem-that-bill-clinton-owes-the-country-an-apology/
Oh my.
DemocraticSocialist8
(396 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)You'd have to, y'know, earn it. Thus far, Sanders has done little to appeal directly to them, so it's a bit late now...
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Many have not, save "leaders" for whom it was politically advantageous to do so.
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Cha~
Thanks to the adults in the room.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)He was a disaster, so bad that I--as an Obama supporter--wondered if he really wanted Hillary to be president.
He's been better this cycle, but if he can't control himself, he needs to go home.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)I guess you speak for all the people and they'll be "flocking" where you tell them to.....
I doubt that very much.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Besides they might not vote for Hillary regardless of Bernie.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)if only
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)This whole superpredator nonsense was not about helping black communities, it was about attracting white swing voters. Michelle Alexander broke it all down in an excellent article today. Bernie will do much better with AAs in NY and CA. I care, and so do other African Americans.
choie
(4,111 posts)You'd understand why African Americans will vote for him.
vt_native
(484 posts)with another powerful bit o' truth.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)accomplishing a damned thing.
jfern
(5,204 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)"Never, ever"?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Helping with the coup in Honduras, destabilizing Libya, arms trading, building a giant neo-liberal foundation, the list goes on....
IamMab
(1,359 posts)I don't recall asking him to speak for me.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I seem to remember we you posting about race issues in the past.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)I'm such a brainless follower. I must check in with my overlords first.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)who exploited race when it benefited them but can't do the same when it would go against their candidate.
It really makes you question what they really believe. No, it doesn't, actually. They make it quite clear.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)You got yourself in a race-baiting pickle!
Response to morningfog (Reply #82)
boston bean This message was self-deleted by its author.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)you would be able to answer the simple question if you were an honest person.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I'm sure all 7 of us on that jury would have voted to hide it, I know I did
boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)on Bill's rant?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Waiting for the approved message of how Bill did not totally screw this up by telling the truth?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)have fun with this line.
beedle
(1,235 posts)makes it look like it's the 'most likely' reason.
But that's fine you 'check into it' for us.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)... we really don't need you to tell us anyway .. we know the answer already.
Here's some music for you while your deciding
morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)You seem to be at best, taking a totally hypocritical and disingenuous position. But it is likely far worse.
I'll ask neutrally. What is your opinion on what Bill Clinton said to the BLM protester?
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)You will like these.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)sheshe2
(83,791 posts)However you are awesome.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)((LOVE))
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)A simple yes or no works.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)ProTip: that's not a compliment.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)you - you are so different - you should be the poster child for party unity
your actions will save the party and save the world and save the universe - forever
the great bean
boston bean
(36,221 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)That's quite an accomplishment.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Incarceration of young blacks.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Hillary and her supporters, don't answer questions. They answer with a question back, without answering first. These personality/growing traits are usually addressed by the time a child is 7 yrs. old.
Ann Richards would tell you so too.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Response to ViseGrip (Reply #12)
Post removed
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)He hates to get zero response
boston bean
(36,221 posts)LOL
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Smoke coming from Hillary's and Brock's ears as they tried to figure out how to spin the news into a negative.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)sheshe2
(83,791 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Or said they needed to be "brought to heel".
Bernie only voted for the bill because of the Violence Against Women Act:
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...perhaps you missed this?
I challenge you to watch it and tell me you disagree.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Did you watch the video, as I suggested?
Please, just tell me whether or not you agree with Bernie.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I can help you, no I don't agree with Sanders unless he is willing to roll off a lot of apologies on his votes.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Hint: no racist language or warning people to be scared of black kids so they need to vote for the bill.
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I must have missed the part where he used racist language and tried to scare people into voting for it to protect them from kids.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Neither before nor after referring to Black youth as "super predators" who must be "brought to heel" like dogs, because he would never say such a vile and immoral thing.
George II
(67,782 posts)...."excuse" for voting for it that he could rationalize years later, as he's done many times already.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)The bundled in Violence Against Women act.
Bunch of videos in this thread explaining his position if you want to inform yourself.
George II
(67,782 posts)...which is his out for just about everything he's done in Congress for 25 years.
He voted FOR war (in 2001) even though he was against it.
He voted AGAINST war (in 2003) even though he voted countless times to fund it.
He voted AGAINST the Brady Bill several times even though he was for it.
He voted AGAINST gun control legislation even though he was for it.
And on, and on, and on, and on. Never takes responsibility for his votes, always an obscure reason why he did what he really didn't want to do.
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)But you can tell what they really felt about the different parts of the bill, not in hindsight, but in looking at what they were saying at the time, and that's where you can often see the real differences between the two of them, even if they cast the same vote. Please see post #93.
George II
(67,782 posts)Sanders voted for it, Bill Clinton didn't - he just signed it. Yet Bill Clinton "owes the American people an apology"? What does Sanders owe the American people?
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Anything that doesn't fit the preconceived narrative is immediately rejected.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)...Bernie is on record at the time as being against the kinds of provisions that led to more incarceration of the poor while Hillary is on the record at the time talking about super predators who must be brought to heel. BOTH of them supported the Violence Against Women Act aspect, and the assault weapons ban in it. You can't pick and choose which sections of a bill to vote for, but your statements can let people know what you agree and disagree with about the bill.
To apologize for voting for the bill would then mean he had wished he had voted against the Violence Against Women Act and the assault weapons ban. You're setting up a lose-lose proposition. Instead, he has simply honestly presented--even back in the 90s--what he was for and what he was against.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Violence against women was why Hillary supported the bill and why Bill signed the bill. Sanders may not have said super predators but was plain spoken on them.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)He gave the reason he voted for it, and warned accurately about the problem parts of the bill was going to cause.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)He and Hillary must be causing their team no end of ulcers whenever they go off script
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Horrible things happen when they are forced to interact with the unwashed masses.
amborin
(16,631 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...or the banking deregulation?
Your call. Hard to pinpoint which has fucked us worse.
But, yes, I believe an apology for suggesting Blacks should "heel" like dogs is a good place to start.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Maybe he would not have turned out to be such a self centered asshole?
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)on the House Floor when he referred to sociopaths and then voted for the bill?
Quote from his speech. And i will add that Bill Clinton and other supporters of the bill fought hard to include provisions for midnight basketball, social services, mental health assistance and some other things that were included in the bill that address the same issues Bernie seemed to care about.
"Mr. Speaker, it is my firm belief that clearly, there are some people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them. But it is also my view that through the neglect of our Government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world, and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country, and all of the executions in the world, will not make that situation right. We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance."
And then he voted FOR the bill.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Blankfein and Dimon, for example, certainly fit the bill and deserve to be "behind bars".
But, truly, "sociopath" is a medical term, so maybe Bernie meant...actual sociopaths?
so·ci·o·path
ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Now, we can certainly argue that the concern about crime in the early 90s was overblown. The GOP had won presidential elections by insisting Democrats were soft on crime (remember the Willy Horton ads). Violent crime has gone down significantly since that early 90s, but from what I've been told by an academic criminologist, the primary factor in violent crime rates is the relative size of the population of young men. Crime rates decline with the birth rate.
One can argue there was a subtext about race, but she does not call African American youth "super predators." She talks about a kind of criminality, using the term "social predator" that was discussed by social scientists at the time. She makes no mention of race.
rock
(13,218 posts)Doesn't metnion 'black' in it's definition? Just asking.
rosesaylavee
(12,126 posts)We don't need a 3rd Clinton term.