2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI'm watching Bernie on This Week with George Stephanopolous. He made the following statement:
" Well, she's getting more votes. A lot of that came from the South"
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-sen-bernie-sanders/story?id=38277617
Just what is that supposed to mean? Do votes from the South not matter?
Broward
(1,976 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)It reminds me of reading the posts in a Yahoo News article. The depth of critical thinking would fit in a teaspoon.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Was it just a throw-away, meaningless line?
Let's hear your in-depth analysis.
artislife
(9,497 posts)His are later and in the West and Midwest.
Thanks for proving the size of the spoon.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Or more honest Republicans that actually register in their own party rather that ours, usually we get the latter and seldom does the south help us in the General election, like almost never seldom.
I wish people with more political knowledge posted here, it saves time not having to give electoral politics 101 lessons all the time. That being said, I still don't mind educating you.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)It has even been lectured here by many that the only way to win in a red state is by being more "blue dog" Conservative on the issues. Such explanations are usually given in a Condescending manner by Conservative Democrats themselves while defending certain politicians that have blocked Democratic bills put forth by Obama in the Senate or during similar instances when long time Democrats like me get frustrated by Dem on Dem obstruction of liberal legislation.
It is considered not only impolite, but misleading to put your own words in the mouths of others. Please stop.
I merely pointed out the fact that southerners tend to vote more Conservative, I do not think this is unknown or contradicted by many that follows US politics. If the truth makes you feel uncomfortable, then perhaps you also tend to vote more conservatively and have thus become defensive, that is only a guess but if true, please don't take it personally, it was not aimed at you personally, it was merely a statement of fact regarding the general voting habits in a certain region. I would also add that no region or group is monolithic and there are some "more liberal" Democrats that vote in that region as well, simply not as many.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)staying on message and not putting his foot in his proverbial political mouth.
Perhaps he's feeling the mental strain and fatigue.
enid602
(8,620 posts)Historically, his message has been heavily anti-Wall St and the business model of capitalism is greed. Not the best message to take to New York and surrounding states.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)or if he'll just go on spouting his one-note refrain?
merrily
(45,251 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I'm a Southerner. I know my state will never vote for the Queen in the general. End of story.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Especially When he knows full well, the black vote was pivotal in those Southern States. His tone deaf messaging continues, and the AA community in the rest of the nation will feel that same sting he just inflicted on the southern POC voter.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)I think he's stating the facts.
Hillary is sort of a Southerner, having lived in Arkansas.
Dems don't do that well in the South but Clinton did for the same reason.
Sanders is a yankee with a NY accent, sort of like Kerry was.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)It's not insulting at all given the very small number of delegates to be awarded, the strong support and numbers favoring Bernie. Add to that the unnecessary cost to fund a losing state and realizing that in the GE, Utah is as bright red as they get. Nope not offended at all at that decision.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)Just like my vote in Massachusetts doesn't usually matter, since the state almost always goes Dem no matter what.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)nt
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)dsc
(52,162 posts)he won 42 EV in 2012 and 57 in 2008. Meaning he won about 15% of his EV there in 2012 and close to 20% in 08.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Bernie is first and foremost a POLITICIAN.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Be specific now.
oasis
(49,389 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)As a transplant from TX to the Midwest I can attest to the fact that we Southerners are not all low information voters. For instance, in my immediate family we had/have: one M.D., 5 Ph.Ds, 2 Masters degrees, and 2 Bachelors degrees (the latter have always been embarrassed about their "lack of education."
merrily
(45,251 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)I wish I remembered who said it but some Sanders supporters act like this election is a Coachcello that happens every four years.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The question is what Presidential candidate Bernie meant by specifying that the Presidential primaries won by Presidential candidate Hillary were all in the South. My answer was about Presidential electoral votes, which was on topic. No clue why you think the subject of this thread is Clyburn's Congressional district or anyone's Congressional district or elections in general. Oh, and my ability to remember the subject of the OP and to post replies on topic says nothing negative about me or any other Sanders supporter.
Henhouse
(646 posts)will effect down ticket candidates if he wins the primary....To think otherwise is incredibly narcissistic...but hey that defines Bernie.
merrily
(45,251 posts)asked the meaning of that comment. The meaning of his comment is what the thread is about. Can't help it if some Hillary supporters totally twisted, as usual missed the meaning of Bernie;s comment, but the thread is about his comment. And his comment was, OF COURSE, not about dismissing all Southern votes. This is a man who thinks voting is so important that he wants it to be a day off from work. He's not going to dismiss votes. Get a clue.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)And maybe a handful of Congresspeople? All of whom are from majority-minority districts.
We're basically red, period. I know this. I'm a Southerner.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)There isn't any. By the way, Hillary can relate; getting blown out of the South is how she lost last time. And Barack Obama's GE prospects weren't compromised in the least by the importance that the South played in the nomination contest.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It means that Bernie can win.
Perogie
(687 posts)Pretty simple, unless you are trying to make it mean something else.
Can you read Bernie's mind and know exactly what he meant or are you trying to make it sound like Bernie hates the south.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)George Snuffallotofus is just another over paid corporate puppet
Autumn
(45,107 posts)more votes, a lot of those votes came from the South. Yes, obviously all votes matter. What do you want it to mean?
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)Well, she's getting more votes. A lot of that came from the South.
Vinca
(50,278 posts)If you're going to create another faux issue, we can wonder why Hillary is alienating the northern states.
artislife
(9,497 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Electorally, that's been the case overall since the 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)what team Hillary has been doing from get go?
think
(11,641 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)GreenPartyVoter
(72,378 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)IamMab
(1,359 posts)He can't even keep track of his own talking points any more. Sad, really.
djean111
(14,255 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I am from the south, from your state too, any you well know our racists state has a history of Red...
http://www.270towin.com/states/Arkansas
If you look at the chart you can see very oddly the votes for Dems dropped off around the time of the Dixiecrats leaving the party in 1948. It continued down until we became red. Billy won twice...but as of now Arkansas is as Red as the HRC camp wants to paint Sanders.
How odd Obama lost by so much each time? 58.72 for McCain and 60.7% to Mitt? Only support along the the delta? How very odd? I wonder why? I know plenty of people in Arkansas that did not vote for him...something about they were afraid the south would not vote for a black man.
It also may have to do with the south distrusting the North since Carter won the South one election? But please put your specter of the south doesn't matter back in the closet with all the bad sh@t our state did in its past.
BTW did your Arkansas school have the trail of tears running through it too? Ours did, I wonder if that was a good trail? Could you remind me, why were people crying on it? Was it because they were so happy to be in Arkansas a place where their vote would count?
Arkansas Granny
(31,518 posts)southern states in the GE. However, to point out that much of Hillary's support comes from those southern states sounds to me that Bernie thinks those voters are unimportant in selecting the Democratic nominee.
BTW, I don't see where you trail of tears comment has anything to do with this conversation.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)It is the very opposite, the southern vote went first and fast, they created a narrative of Hillary and anyone that pointed out that the south does not support the Dems in the general election and the north had yet to vote was labeled a racist. They had in fact made it so their voice didn't count. Also did you vote for Obama in both elections and in the primaries? How well did that work? How important was your vote? It is your right to get offended by what ever you like. I for one am offended by people creating a narrative about this to call us racist. I know plenty of racists, they are all over, but I sure found them quite quickly when I was in the south...some just a branch or two away in the old family tree.
You ask why does it matter? Well I am pretty sure the Native American vote in Arkansas does not matter, why? Because we removed them all, I went to a school knowing that people died under our soil being forced to walk from as far as (well they got a boat part of the way) Florida.
Most Native Americans were forced to leave Arkansas during the Indian Removals of the 1800's. These tribes are not extinct, but except for the descendants of Arkansas Indians who escaped from Removal, they do not live in Arkansas anymore. They were moved to Indian reservations in Oklahoma instead. If you click on the link for each tribe above, you can find more information about them.
Where did they end up? Oklahoma...which voted for Bernie.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/2/1494912/-Bernie-won-the-non-black-PoC-of-Oklahoma-vote-55-39
I include this because of the narrative you seem to be trying to spread about the southern vote mot mattering to equate with racism. I am tired of it, He was our governor for 10 years or so, during his run all the black people in our town lived in one little government housing project that had been there for a long time, right below a confederate cemetery. We went to the high-school in Little Rock a few times, it had metal prison bars on all of it's windows, it had a walled in field. Helena looked so painfully poor, it was like nothing had changed. When people try and paint this narrative about the south they are glossing over much of the horribleness that is there in parts. They make it look like a horrible old white jew from the north is repressing the free south. News flash, the south ain't free, it still suffers under the ghost of its past. In fact the amount of anti-antisemitism I grew up under, the religious pamphlets with the horrible drawings of jews that were handed out in my school bus by fellow students. This is digressing a bit but I love the fact that the guy that discovered the cause for Pellagra in the south was scoffed at because he was Jewish...too bad they did not listen to him because he was right...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goldberger
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)- sounds to me like your own wishfully negative interpretation. Why not Post #6's "What it means is that voting in the south is over.... Bernie is doing well in the rest of the states" and similarly Post #15's "It means she pulled ahead early and that those votes came from the South."
The fact is, most of her strongest support comes from one region of the country. Bernie's support is much more broad. One can make that point without being dismissive of southerners.
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)I mean, how else could you interpret "A lot of that came from the South" other than complete disgust and disregard for every American who happens to live south of the Mason-Dixon line??? There's just no other interpretation that makes any sense! I'm series!!1!1!111!
srobert
(81 posts)I was going to respond until I noticed your screen name. LOL.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Their votes, at least in a general election... Not so much.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)NorthEast, Mid Atlantic, MidWest, Mountain West, West, etc.
The South is the region across the lower U.S. from Louisiana through the Florida Panhandle.
Bernie is saying that Hillary won these States in the early primaries and ran up the vote count.
It is really that simple, a politician giving a reason for why he has fewer votes.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Hillary Clinton has gotten a lot of votes. Many of the primaries and caucuses she has won thus far were in Southern States. Hillary has not won as many of late althought she is still getting some wins. Hillary is strong in southern states. Bernie seem a bit stronger in the mid-western states and we have yet to see who will carry the eastern states or west coast
There is that a bit easier to understand????
Have a nice Sunday!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)It was like listening to someone off of DU talk in an interview.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)srobert
(81 posts)People in the South talk more slowly. Bernie always sounds angry (because he is). Perhaps he's talking too fast for many southerners to get the gist of what it is he's angry about. If they knew what he was angry about they would vote for him.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Seems to be a daily occurence now.
He's gone badly off message. Get his handlers to reign him in.
Calling Jane, calling Jane...
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Jackilope
(819 posts)Perhaps all the little innuendo from Clinton-speak is automatic to question what the opposition says.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Some people don't know how to "interpret" someone who says what he thinks.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)If he thought they didn't matter, he wouldn't have campaigned there.
I'm not sure why you'd come to that erroneous conclusion. He stated 2 facts: 1. She's got more votes so far. 2. She got many of them in the South.
These things are true. Why do you feel you need to spin them to mean something more, or something different?
PufPuf23
(8,790 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)DINOs, neoliberals, neocons, and Rethuglicans have no clue what it means.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)bigtree
(85,998 posts)...but, crime bill.
PufPuf23
(8,790 posts)How about that Bill Clinton?
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)He was asked about Clinton's lead. He replied that much of it came from the South.
That is just the "math."
He has stated elsewhere that they knew Clinton had an inherent advantage in the south, and his campaign had to set priorities during periods where there were simultaneous primaries. They focused on the states where he had a better chance. A pragmatic decision.
Any other hidden meanings or secret racist code is solely in your own mind.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)nt
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,734 posts)He wasn't trying to say southern votes don't matter, but simply that although Hillary has done well in the southern states, those primaries are over. In other words he expects to do better in the remaining elections. Don't read into it something that isn't there.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Going forward and moving on .... meanwhile ....
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)You think she can do better than Obama among Black voters in the solid Republican south?
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)"...from black people." It just doesn't sound as good.
Response to jcgoldie (Reply #63)
MoonRiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Pretty sure we're on the same side. My point was that Sanders supporters are fond of pointing out that he inspires certain demographics that democrats will need to get to the polls in November such as young people. Then they make reference to her victories in southern states as somehow related to the 150 year gone confederacy, implying these states are more conservative and won't vote democrat in the GE anyway so those wins somehow mean less. Leaving aside the fact that most of the mountain west where most of his recent caucus wins have taken place will also be red in November, the reason her lead is nearly insurmountable at this point is not because she won in the south. It's because she won by huge margins in the south making it very difficult for him to counter those margins even if he can rack up wins in the west and northeast. The basis of those roughly 70-30 margins is that she's winning with people of color by tremendous percentages and there are a lot of them in those places. Of course minorities are just as important for democrats to inspire in November as young people or independents, but it somehow obscures this dynamic by calling them the confederacy or saying she only wins in "the south".
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Wyoming, or Idaho, or Oklahoma, or Nebraska, or Kansas, or Utah, or Alaska.
On the other hand, Florida and Ohio and Virginia could be sorta important.
merrily
(45,251 posts)I have not seen polls for the other states you named. Also, you seem to have left out New Hampshire, which is also purple state.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Hillary beat Trump by a wide margin in Georgia for example. Doesn't make it any more likely to flip in November, although recent trends suggest it will be closer than Utah.
merrily
(45,251 posts)But, what is your point here? The OP is about the meaning of the comment Bernie made about the Southern states and we seem now to be pretty far off that topic.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)You were comparing the relative support for Trump and Sanders in the Utah caucus. Turnout in the primaries and caucuses on either side is what has been shown to be meaningless. We'd better hope that's the case whether we are for Clinton or Sanders because GOP turnout this spring has been up. It's a reflection of how competitive the race is not who will win in the fall. And if you think Utah will turn blue for Sanders there's some oceanfront property for you there as well.
merrily
(45,251 posts)That kind of poll is what my prior posts 87 and 91 were obviously about. They had nothing to do with turnout during primaries and caucuses.
Meanwhile, I had assumed we were having a discussion, but I was obviously mistaken: Tell you what. You save the gratuitous condescending snark and the oceanfront property in Utah for people who think voters will turn out in 2016 for Hillary.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)However, he came close to winning. Georgia will win before Texas...and Bernie will not take Florida, Virginia or Ohio in my opinion.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)Does anyone dispute that?
If fact, he would do better than Hillary among African-American and other non-white voters in the General Election .... unless Hillary and the Democratic Party National Committee sit on the sidelines and refuse to help Bernie mobilize voters.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)That we can assume the black vote is in the bag for Bernie despite the fact very few actual black voters are voting for him, and yet we are simultaneously to assume young people and independents will not vote for Clinton at all?
riversedge
(70,242 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The prestigious award is reserved for the dumbest post of the day. It's early, but you win.
You project Hillary's MO onto Sanders. The Clintons have always been divisive, especially on race. Of course you missed her 2008 anti Obama performance and Bill's historic Sister Souljah show.
Henhouse
(646 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)"total" means "not a total" but means something like "votes only count from primary states and from a few caucuses but excluding votes from numerous caucus states."
Hillary built up a lot of votes in the states of the the Bible Belt (the 13 states of the former Confederacy) which have less progressive Democrats than the rest of the nation and which are all primary states and not caucus states.
mcar
(42,334 posts)I'm happy my vote for HRC here in FL counted.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Representative (D-SC 6th District) since 1993.
So tell me again how my vote doesn't matter?
All in it together
(275 posts)And it's not winner take all. The second person gets some of the delegates to the national Democratic Convention, that chooses the party's nominee.
In the general election Republicans usually win in the southern states and it is winner take all for one candidate in the electoral college. So anyone in any state who votes for the candidate that came in second is not given any votes in the electoral college from their state.
It doesn't matter the total number of votes the candidate gets, just the number of states they win and get their electoral college delegates.
It is unfortunate that so many people have so little say in red and blue states, if they are for the other party.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I'm in Tennessee. I get what he means.
Henhouse
(646 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...into an attack. Did she NOT get more votes in the south?
chillfactor
(7,576 posts)Sanders does not think anyone living in the south has a brain.....what a horrendous statement he made.
All in it together
(275 posts)Of course Bernie isn't dissing the people in the south. I'm sorry that's how you interpret it.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Much of the non-south hasn't voted yet
beedle
(1,235 posts)So let me get this straight, when the Bernie side mentions "ghettos' and their unequal association to 'race' in the American historical context that's a no-no, but if you talk about poverty and the poor you are criticized because the focus is on 'poverty' instead of 'race'?
Then if Bernie side talks about "The South" the Hillary side says you're disrespecting Blacks, but when the Hillary side talks about superpredators this is about 'all criminals' and has nothing to do with any specific 'race'?
Will the Hilary camp release a whitepaper on the rules of discussing issues of race ... "Ghettos and SuperPredators" must NEVER mention 'race', "The South and Poverty" you must ALWAYS mention race ... anything else?
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)message.
K-I-S-S
Bernie's made this same point in a number of interviews and speeches.
It was not meant to demean Southern voters in any way.
"The Deep South is a very conservative part of the country," he said. "Now that we're heading into a progressive part of the country, we expect to do much better."