2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI really don't care if Bernie goes to the Vatican or not
If he goes and it helps him, good for him. I'm not going to fault him for going and speaking in other countries like a good leader should do. This, to me, is a weird thing to be obsessed over. He's using his time in the best way he sees fit, and I am in no position to say he's wrong.
And, yes, I'm saying this as a very strong Clinton supporter that will be voting for her here in NY.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Godhumor
(6,437 posts)zazen
(2,978 posts)Frankly, she would have come off a lot more presidential if she had issued an immediate statement congratulating him on his invitation and expressing gratitude that a Senator was engaging with other leaders on this important issue. Then she could have made some statement about engaging with leaders herself on these issues for years and how vital it is for a Senator to be welcomed to the world stage as she has been fortunate to have been. Then she could have focused on how glad she is to have a Senator giving voice to these economic concerns and how important it is to incorporate that dialogue into the many challenges America and the world are facing in the 21 st century . . . .
I mean, that's not that hard to write a congratulatory and yet honestly patronizing statement, because she does have more experience in worldwide fora and while I think Sanders isn't a one-issue candidate, a lot of other people do, and she could have spun this to reinforce this misconception.
Instead, her surrogates have made her campaign seem petty and spiteful. Not smart.
They keep making missteps like this. She should have been much farther ahead in the polls. Sometimes I really do wonder if her husband is intentionally holding her back, you know?
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)I simply am not concerned about how Bernie spends his time.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)If you are equating DU members to Hillary surrogates don't, they aren't.
I'd be open to seeing some links where people criticized him for going who were actual surrogates. But I haven't seen the candidate do it, maybe I missed it?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I don't care if he goes, he can go wherever he wants and do whatever he wants. But it's not like he just coincidentally got invited to this right at this time, he lobbied for the invitation because he thought it would help his campaign.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)the Pope invited him.
Where are you getting this?
You have repeatedly argued and railed against something that Bernie never did.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I am absolutely certain that Bernie never said that the Pope invited him.
Never.
That has never been reported anywhere that Bernie said, "The Pope invited me to come to speak at this conference."
Do you think maybe you misunderstood?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)There was an extended discussion between Bernie and the ladies on The View about Bernie's trip. Then Joy said, "Oh my God! You're going to see the Pope!?" And Bernie replied, "Yes!"
Is this what you're taking about?
If so, I can understand. He answered in the affirmative and said, "Yes!". I heard it when it was said and I just assumed that he was saying that yes he was going to Vatican City, where the Pope is. I didn't take it so literally. I was just so thrilled for Bernie and for the Dem party and that the topic of caring about the poor and less fortunate would get some much-needed publicity.
How do you and I both hear the same thing and come away with two such disparate interpretations?
With all of that said--Bernie never said that the Pope invited him. I really wish you'd quit professing that Bernie said this because he didn't. You need to go back and listen to the video.
Bernie NEVER asserted on The View or anywhere else, that the Pope invited him.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)BTW, in your scenario, where did the View get the idea that the Pope had invited him? If it didn't come from the Bernie campaign, you think they were just guessing?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Has someone from The View asserted that Bernie said the Pope invited him?
Because...Bernie never said that the Pope invited him.
Bernie issued a press statement about this news--in the very beginning--after he got news of the invite. In Bernie's official press materials, he never asserted that the Pope invited him.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Like I said, where do you think the View got this information? It came from the Bernie camp, because that's the only place it could have come from. They told lies to the View, and the View repeated those lies on TV, and Bernie said yes.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)said, "Bernie told us that the Pope invited him to this conference."?
Did they say this after Bernie appeared there on the show?
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Bernie never said, "The Pope invited me." He never spoke those words.
Bernie also never said that the Pope invited him in any of his press materials. Never suggested that or said that in any other context.
Behar said that and he agreed, which to me, was Bernie affirming, in general, that he was going. "The Pope invited me" has never been uttered by Bernie. Never.
This was an innocent affirmation of this epic announcement. Bernie was excited.
So we'll just have to agree to disagree about what the affirmation meant. I guess you see bad intentions on Bernie's part. That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion.
He's leaving in four days. Maybe all of this keyboard analysis will subside a bit, and maybe people will be able to see the good, once he is there in Vatican City.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And he nodded when she said that the pope had invited him.
The excuses you are making are just bizarre. If someone asks you a question, and you answer falsely, that's a lie even if you don't repeat the question.
You know, like if someone asks me if I've won an Olympic medal and I say yes or nod in agreement, that's still a lie, even if I don't repeat "yes, I've won an Olympic medal".
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)that Bernie went around saying.
In fact, Bernie has been quite open about who invited him. He said repeatedly that it was Chancellor Sorondo.
After Sorondo sent digital copies of the formal invite to Bernie--Bernie widely disseminated that invite from Sorondo to many media members. I saw reporters from CNN and ABC who had those documents in hand.
Does this sound like the actions of a man who was saying that the Pope personally invited him? In fact, Bernie was doing the opposite.
I agree that Bernie answered in the affirmative. We'll have to agree to disagree about Bernie's intentions, what he meant--and if that affirmative response is important.
Cheers.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It was totally cynical and dishonest. He assumed that the audience of the View would never check the facts for themselves.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)about Bernie's intentions. About his honesty. About his assumptions about the audience and that he desired to dupe them.
Got it. How you feel about all of this, is very clear.
Thanks for the dialogue.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I think that what Dan saying is incorrect, Bernie did say he was going but I haven't seen him say he was invited by the Pope.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I don't agree with you here, sorry.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)ms liberty
(8,592 posts)There are some DU'ers who are being really ugly. I am not surprised to see you are not one of them! You've shown fairness and civility before and I've noticed!
Wasn't it you that changed jobs a few months ago? How is that going for you? Well, I hope!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)are acting like crazed loons regarding this issue. It's so over the top.
Bernie was invited to attend a conference. He's going. He's excited. As he should be.
The petty mocking and straw man arguments are bizarre. People are starting threads just to declare that the Pope never invited Bernie. Meanwhile, Bernie never said the Pope invited him. It like they entertain themselves by arguing with themselves about things Bernie never said.
It really makes your side look like bratty and petty.
I'm glad to hear that you are indifferent. It's much better that acting like an unhinged howler monkey.
Maybe you could talk to your friends and tell them how moronic they sound? It must be lonely being the lone voice of reason.
I will also say that Hillary has been an effective campaigner in NYC. NYC looks good on her. I thought riding the subway was a great idea. I love Bernie's big rallies, but Hillary does a great job with smaller-venue events. I think that will go a long way in NYC, and I hope to see Bernie doing more intimate events.
Best to both candidates in NY who are fighting their hearts out to win this state.
Enjoy your front-row seat. It will be over before you know it--so attend every event that you can and enjoy the non-stop television ads, media circus and rallies. This much focus on the NY primary is rare, as you know.
Enjoy it while you're able! You may never see NY at the epicenter of the Dem primary--at this level--again in your lifetime.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)What's wrong with you?
Marr
(20,317 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)shows about his internals in NY that makes it discussion worthy for many people.
I think the meetings subject matter is right up his alley and might be good inspiration for his post campaign work.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Everything else just elicits a shrug.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)The monks would be a bit out of character. Then there are the nuns...well ...
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)uponit7771
(90,359 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)i am happy for him too as one of his supporters, but honestly wish the issues would get more attention.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... on our side have grabbed on to this simply because of the nonsense we hear about Hillary day in and day out from Bernie supporters.
They parse her every word.
When it comes back at them, they get very upset.
But its really a non-event.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)spoke there, was or was not invited. Aside from a very few issues, the pope is on the wrong side of history and has more in common with his predecessors.
What I don't get it the obsession from the Hillary folk. It's just petty, silly and highly entertaining.