"Do you think NY State should recognize gay marriage"? Hillary: "No."

[Bonobo]

Bear in mind, this isn't even what some people consider a "dodge" -which is to fall back on saying it is a "State's rights" issue.

No, this is something more disgusting.

This is a US Senator from the Democratic Party coming straight out and advocating against Gay Marriage.

[Segami]

1. But, ...but,..let me poll that question and

I'll get back to you with my new & improved position....

[DanTex]

2. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511690900

[Bonobo]

4. God forbid people should know who they are voting for. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

6. i only have to go back to the first 6 years of this century.

And if you ask me, there is little more relevant to a politician's resume than their legislative voting record.

[hellofromreddit]

56. While that's pretty cute

You're cherry-picking data. You never post that link in threads about recent stuff.

The past matters regardless of smugness.

[beam me up scottie]

3. Thanks to DOMA the fight for marriage equality had to begin in the states.

It was a state's rights issue and Hillary opposed it both at the federal and state level.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. yes, but that was before the polls evolved

Or the candidate did, or something.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Was it one of those "Hard Choices" she made.

[msongs]

8. yeah sanders was against it too at one point..next smear? nt

[Bonobo]

12. Posting her own words is a "smear" in your world? Okay.

[m-lekktor]

17. no he wasn't.

[Armstead]

29. NO HE WAS NOT

SAt one point when civil unions was still controversial he said it was not time politically to push things with gay marriage, because the debate had become overheated, and it would be better to let them settle down.

But he was never opposed to it.

[Ash_F]

41. At 39k posts you should know better than to try to get away with that here.

[brooklynite]

9. I see...so Bernie Sanders was "dodging"...

Explaining his vote in 1996, Sanders’ chief of staff told the Rutland Herald that Sanders’ vote was motivated by a concern for states’ rights, not equality.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/10/05/bernie_sanders_on_marriage_equality_he_s_no_longtime_champion.html

[Bonobo]

10. Some people would say so. But why did Hillary oppose it both on a federal AND a state level? nt

[beam me up scottie]

16. State's rights to enact same sex legislation is now called dodging?

[brooklynite]

22. "States Rights" means you also support States' Rights to make it illegal...

[Bonobo]

28. Sanders strongly spoke against a constitutional amendment against gay marriage in 1999. Look it up.

[brooklynite]

30. Right...just allow the States to ban it if they want to...

[Bonobo]

31. Actually here is his direct quote in 1999 in response to the ruling by the Vermont Supreme Court

"The Vermont Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that under the Vermont Constitution, all citizens of the state have the same right to the benefits of marriage,” Sanders said at the time. “I applaud that decision. Vermont has once again shown itself to be a leader in the struggle for human rights.”"

[brooklynite]

32. And if Mississippi wants to deny marriage rights? Not my problem...

[Bonobo]

33. Does it hurt your back to flop around and twist that much? nt

[BeanMusical]

40. Not when you do it constantly, your body is adapting.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Other than you who said that? You do realize that putting words in people's mouths is lying, right?

[beam me up scottie]

38. Not when you're arguing against DOMA which would make it illegal in all states.

Look we get it, Hillary opposed marriage equality and you can't defend her, but stop trying to say Bernie opposed it as well.

Facts matter.

[pantsonfire]

11. She evolved in 5 years, that's remarkable considering how long it usually takes...n/t

[Zira]

13. She's evolved in the last ONE YEAR. And honestly, her new found liberalness actually started

full force at the end of NOV 2015 as Sanders was suddenly closing the gaps with her.

The weathervane is only a weathervane. Lets not see her re-do her super right career like she did in the Senate and as Secretary of State. She voted to cut every welfare and food stamp bill that came up when she was in the Senate. Got to hand it to her, turning in to Kissinger as SOS far out did all of her consistent neocon moves up to that point.

Watch today's Democracy now show. They focus on her and Honduras.

[pantsonfire]

15. On it....I love Democracy Now!

When you're off looking for entertaiment, this reminds me, watch Documentary now! it's a hilarious sketch-mockumentary-comedy...the first episode is about relatives of the Kennedy's who lived in that dilapidated house (Grey Gardens).

[Zira]

19. democracynow.org

[Travis_0004]

18. She probably evolved overnight once she saw which way the wind was blowing.

[Zira]

14. bump

[amborin]

20. there you have it

[dsc]

21. and at the very same time Sanders opposed it for Vermont

a stance he didn't change until after VT decided to approve it.

[Bonobo]

23. You have your timelines wrong. nt

[dsc]

24. No I don't

He stated his opposition in 2006, she stated hers in 2007 or 2008 but he didn't revoke his opposition until 2009, which is after Vermont ratified marriage equality. Thus he opposed marriage equality for VT at the same time she opposed it for NY.

[Bonobo]

25. And when did Hillary say she opposes it?

[beam me up scottie]

37. When did he say that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry?

He said it was too soon to try to pass same sex marriage legislation in Vermont, he never ever said that it should be illegal.

And he was right, the struggle to pass civil unions tore Vermont apart, ssm legislation never would have passed.

[beam me up scottie]

36. He never opposed it for Vermont, he said it was too soon.

You have been asked repeatedly to back up that allegation and never have.

[MFM008]

26. Obama's position the same

Almost all her positions are Barack Obama's
Sorry you see those as an 8 year F A I L.
Your NEVER going to get someone as liberal as you want. Never.
Do you think Sanders will win states like Nevada/Virginia/ Colorado/ Iowa in the general?
They wont vote for him. But since this is all an exercise in Ideological purity the point is moot.

[hrmjustin]

27. As a gay NYer I am always happy when someone admits they were wrong in marriage equality.

I am a very forgiving person.

[Nye Bevan]

34. "When Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no"

But when Sanders was asked by a reporter whether Vermont should legalize same-sex marriage, he said no. "Not right now, not after what we went through," he said.

That same year, Sanders was asked in a debate during his first run for the Senate about a Massachusetts state court decision that legalized gay marriage. The debate moderator wanted to know if Sanders thought the federal government should overturn that decision. He responded by talking about states’ rights, which is an argument often used by politicians who have argued against federal recognition of gay marriage as well.

“I believe the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue,” Sanders said in the 2006 debate.

http://time.com/4089946/bernie-sanders-gay-marriage/

Indeed, many politicians have evolved on this issue. And that's a good thing.

[beam me up scottie]

35. He wanted to wait because it was too soon to try to pass it in VT, he never opposed it.

That article is full of shit, here's the transcript From 2006 again with the pertinent part underlined:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other the state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue.

He opposed allowing the feds to overturn states who had passed same sex legislation, he didn't oppose the legislation itself.

Bernie didn't need to evolve, he never opposed marriage equality, not in Vermont or anywhere else.

[BeanMusical]

43. +1000

[delrem]

44. Whoa, baby! Now that's a vid.

Mike Figueredo made quite the impression on me.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Yeah it is! He knows his stuff.

[delrem]

47. Maybe there's some connection to Sanders' mega crowds.

Could it actually be possible that such large crowds are motivated by beautiful, future friendly ideals?

I think so. I think we ought to keep on trying.

[beam me up scottie]

50. They recognize someone who stands for the little guy.

Someone who can't be bullied or bought. Bernie's the real deal.

[delrem]

51. I can see why Hillary's supporters consider that "extreme".

In a world where Hillary Clinton defines the norm, that would be "extreme" to the point of being impossible.
No wonder they can't understand even common sense logic.

eta: to the "I can see why", I just mean to the tune of $160million for starters. And common sense logic.

[Bonobo]

48. Great video! nt

[beam me up scottie]

49. Mike's all kinds of awesome, isn't he?

[Bonobo]

52. Yes, he is. The final word on the issue. nt

[Nye Bevan]

54. OK, so cautious, pragmatic, and supported civil unions as opposed to marriage.

Like so many at the time.

Of course what is more important is the candidates' current position, given that they have both evolved.

[beam me up scottie]

55. No Bernie supported both civil unions and same sex marriage.

He never opposed it, he simply said Vermont wasn't ready for it yet.

Like so many at the time.

Speak for yourself, like Bernie some of us didn't need to evolve.

[Nye Bevan]

57. "Not ready for it yet" = "wait until the polls say people support it" (nt)

[beam me up scottie]

58. That means it won't pass so it's better to wait.

Not: oh hell no because "marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman"

One is opposition to marriage equality and the other is knowledge that rushing it will lead to failure.

Pragmatic but not opposed if you will.

[delrem]

42. She evolved. It's important for this election cycle that you update your impression.

She is, after all, a woman of principle.

[BeanMusical]

46. Lol!

Thanks, I badly needed the laugh.

[Joob]

53. This isn't even her final form!!