2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie's useless record on gay rights
When I look at Bill Clinton's record, the fact is he increased funding for AIDS research and invests tens of millions of dollars in AIDS education, granted asylum to victims of homophobia, appointed scores of openly gay people to government positions, barred discrimination against gays in federal contracts, advocated for gays in his 1999 State of the Union address (a big deal at the time). Even Hillary herself as SoS ensured that gay couples have equal benefits as straights in the State Dept. and spoke in international forums declaring that "gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights." Bill Clinton even let gays in the military, but was met with such a backlash (primarily from conservative Democrats) that he was forced to compromise with Don't Ask/Don't Tell. Bill's big mistake was with DOMA, which passed Congress by veto proof margins, but still Bill was wrong to support it.
What Bernie did is laughable. He's done NOTHING for gays. Okay, he voted against DOMA, but big deal, his vote did not get gays one benefit. He couldn't even persuade many Democrats to vote against it. And, worse, his argument against DOMA was that the matter of marriage should be left up to the individual states, a right wing view even at that time (the same argument was used by the segregationists), and one still held by the likes of Ted Cruz. In fact, Bernie did not publicly come out in favor of gay marriage until 13 years after DOMA. So, Bernie's biggest accomplishment on gay rights, the one he boasts about on his website, was that he accomplished nothing. No wonder the largest gay rights group, Human Rights Campaign, and so many others have endorsed Hillary.
The fact is Bernie has done nothing for gays in his 20 years in Congress. The Clintons, despite their mistakes along the way, have actually done quite a bit. That's why so many gay organizations and a majority of gays support Hillary Clinton.
On gay rights, Bernie has nice beliefs but has been useless or at best ineffective on a national level. He's done nothing for gays.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... I really dislike the Bernie bros. Bernie's good, but there are too many jerks who support him, and that's who I go after. You should read some of the posts.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)On Fri Apr 15, 2016, 08:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
You should read some of those posts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1747762
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This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
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Calling people Bernie bros is rude an over the top. This person has repeatedly insulted his supporters, check his transparency page if you need verification.
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roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)people? That Bill Clinton? Or some other Bill Clinton?
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... DOMA was designed to prevent gay marriage from happening, so in that way was awful (and as I said Bill Clinton was terribly wrong for signing it), but the reality is that DOMA had no impact on gay marriage. MA legalized it in 2004 and other states followed suit until the US Supremes finally threw DOMA out. But, again, Bernie accomplished NOTHING with his vote. That's his big claim to fame -- that he cast a good vote that accomplished nothing. Awesome, Bernie.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Is there nothing you won't excuse to defend the Clintons?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)How many more nasty screeds about Bernie are you going to post in order to excuse it?
The hatred for this man is disturbing.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)I cited rights that gays got thanks to the Clintons. Bernie's big accomplishment was a good, but meaningless vote. Maybe that impresses you.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)By the way, where was Hillary during the struggle?
Oh, that's right, standing firmly in the way:
Please stop exploiting this issue to score points.
LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I will NEVER vote for her. NO big deal voting against DOMA??????? How much do you get paid for this? I trust Bernie to help the LGBT community over any Clinton. If she's willing to compromise on abortions, what else is she willing to compromise over.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 15, 2016, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)
NOTHING. The Clintons accomplished a number of things.
And Bernie's argument for voting against DOMA was that the decision for marriage should be left up to the states. Wouldn't that be great if his argument had prevailed? Ted Cruz would be happy about it.
You trust Bernie on gay rights. I trust him on economic rights, but as a Congressperson he has never been a leader in civil rights, women's rights, or gay rights. He's voted the right way (as has Hillary), but he has no accomplishments. His vote on DOMA did not get us one right.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Now that he's officially announced he will seek the Democratic nomination for president and challenge Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders will be talking about his positions on major issues on the campaign trail, and one very big issue he has championed for years is gay marriage. Sanders, unlike some of his potential Republican opponents, seems like he would not turn down an invitation to a gay wedding (and he might actually get invited to one).
In 1996, then-Representative Sanders voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, which barred recognition of gay marriage at the federal level (DOMA was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 2013). Sanders' and his home state of Vermont were the first to legalize same-sex unions in 2000, at first recognizing them as civil unions. Gay marriage has been legal in Vermont since 2009, and as The New York Times reported, Vermont was the first state to pass legislation in support of same-sex marriage, rather than in reaction to a court ruling.
On Tuesday, as the Supreme Court took up the issue of gay marriage, Sanders issued a statement on his website reaffirming his support, saying gay Americans in every state should be allowed to marry.
Of course all citizens deserve equal rights. Its time for the Supreme Court to catch up to the American people and legalize gay marriage.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/79951-bernie-sanders-views-on-gay-marriage-show-hes-been-a-supporter-for-a-long-time
Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving independent member of Congress, is officially seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 2016, the Vermont senator announced in an email to supporters this morning.
"People should not underestimate me," Sanders told the Associated Press in an interview that broke the news of his candidacy Wednesday night. "I've run outside of the two-party system, defeating Democrats and Republicans, taking on big-money candidates and, you know, I think the message that has resonated in Vermont is a message that can resonate all over this country."
The self-described "Democratic socialist" wants to challenge the business-as-usual trend of big money in politics that he says dominates the current candidates including Hillary Clinton.
The thrust of Sanders's campaign thus far like his political career as the mayor of Burlington, Vt., 16 years in the U.S. House of Representatives, and the past seven in the U.S. Senate has focused on supporting working-class Americans through elevated taxes on the wealthy and correcting income inequality "which is now reaching obscene levels," he told the AP.
But Sanders has also been a steadfast and reliable supporter of LGBT equality, supporting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act when it passed the Senate in 2013 and even calling on President Obama to evolve already and support marriage equality in 2011. He's a cosponsor of the federal LGBT-inclusive Student Non-Discrimination Act and has consistently voted against bills seeking to amend the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, while cosponsoring a bill that would repeal the remaining portions of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act. Sanders has a perfect score of 100 percent on the Human Rights Campaign's latest Congressional Equality Index.
http://www.advocate.com/politics/election/2015/04/30/bernie-sanders-most-lgbt-friendly-candidate
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Outside of that, the only accomplishment of Bernie's on gay rights that I could find was that he played a role in ending legalized housing discrimination against gays when he was mayor of Burlington in 1985. But, his record of accomplishment outside of that is nil.
As far as DOMA goes, Jerold Nadler is the big hero, because he fought DOMA every year he was in Congress.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)pantsonfire
(1,306 posts)Like what? The HRC rates Bernie at 100% and Hillary at 88%. He's done a number of positive things for the LGBTQ community.
Here's a summary: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-lgbtq-rights/#lgbtq-values-family-values
This takes the cake in my opinion (1995):
senz
(11,945 posts)Maybe the OP, if he gives a damn about LGBT's, will watch it.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)tells you how much store to set by anything they say: their endorsements are self-serving and corrupt establishment tactics.
We better vote the opposite of what HRC suggests.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Time to move on to smear plan number 4,168.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)And he never opposed SSM, while Hillary clearly opposed it in 2004.
senz
(11,945 posts)Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Yes, he's spoken out and voted right, but he has done absolutely nothing and achieved absolutely nothing for gay rights. The Clintons, like it or not, have delivered greater rights for gays, despite DOMA. Bernie's vote on DOMA was great, but it accomplished nothing.
Even on gay marriage, he only publicly came out for it AFTER Vermont had passed it, and well after states like MA had legalized it.
If Bernie Sanders never existed, it would have had no impact on gay rights.
If the Clintons had never existed, then who knows when the White House would have banned discrimination by federal contractors, appointed scores of openly gay people to government posts, permitted asylum for gays from oppressive nations, funded AIDS research and education to the tun of at least a couple hundred million dollars, made gay rights part of the State of the Union address, etc.
senz
(11,945 posts)So even though Bernie has been more solid on gay rights than the Clintons ever were and ever will be, Bill had the position and power to make a few appointments, etc.
Cheesy and low of you to hold that against Bernie. But not surprising
senz
(11,945 posts)Do yourself a favor and get educated on it:
http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-lgbtq-rights/
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)She supported DADT
She supported DOMA
She opposed equal rights
And in 2016, she praised NANCY FUCKING REAGAN for starting the national conversation on AIDS, when all that hellbound bigot did was deadpan the direly needed conversation. She and Ronnie wanted to "let the gay cancer work its magic" and that is what Clinton calls activism?
FUCK THAT!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)You're a joke.
QC
(26,371 posts)and that letting us marry would defile something sacred.