2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTo Protect Hillary Clinton, Democrats Wage War on Their Own Core Citizens United Argument
Another critical aspect of the right-wing majority argument in Citizens United was that actual corruption requires proof of a quid pro quo arrangement: meaning that the politician is paid to vote a certain way (which is, basically, bribery). Prior precedent, said the Citizens United majority, was limited to quid pro quo corruption, quoting a prior case as holding that the hallmark of corruption is the financial quid pro quo: dollars for political favors.
Does that sound familiar? It should. That, too, has become a core Clinton-supporting argument: Look, if you cant prove that Hillary changed her vote in exchange for Goldman Sachs speaking fees or JPMorgan Chase donations (and just by the way, Elizabeth Warren believes she can prove that), then you cant prove that these donations are corrupting. After all, argue Clinton supporters (echoing the Citizens United majority), the hallmark of corruption is the financial quid pro quo: dollars for political favors.
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/14/to-protect-clinton-democrats-wage-war-on-their-own-core-citizens-united-argument/
Bernie takes the Democratic position on this issue and the Hillary campaign and her supporters are with Scalia & McConnell. And they have the nerve to tell us that Sanders isn't the Democrat. Yeah, right.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)it causes congress members as they are forced to spend time fundraising to protect their seats. I seriously doubt she would leave it standing.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Did you read the piece?
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Then she will fix everything
The article is excellent btw
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Hillary is clear on where she stands on CU. It's public record.
In this climate, until CU is overturned, I have ZERO problems with her using any legal resources to raise funds to combat the GOP in the General Election. The Koch brothers alone have pledged hundreds of millions of dollars to defeat the Dem candidate.
Bernie's campaign hasn't proved anything about what is needed to compete in a General Election. He hasn't faced unlimited funding pushing attack ads, that WILL be aired against our nominee. Unless he seriously amped up his findraising, he would tank quickly. Fortunately, it doen't looks like we are going to have to worry about it.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)So you don't think when Hillary is receiving large sums of money from Wall Street banks and other large corporations that corruption might be involved?
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)The only thing unusual about the speeches, is that very few women have the stature to make as much as Hillary did per speech, but her fees are quite similar to what men make on the speakers circuit.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-12/the-very-valuable-words-of-hillary-clinton
That link has many of the organizations that she spoke to, and a few videos of the speeches.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)So you don't think when Hillary is receiving large sums of money from Wall Street banks and other large corporations that corruption might be involved?
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)But I'm pretty sure you know that already.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Mr. Greenwald's points in his piece above.
Your comment where you say there is no "evidence" or we would have heard about it is about quid pro quo (see my original post). This is what Scalia and McConnell argue to maintain the Citizens United decision. If you can't prove quid pro quo then it's not corrupt. You've shown all of us you are on the Scalia/McConnell side of the argument for campaign finance reform. The dissenting opinion says you don't need quid pro quo for it to have a corrupting influence (the Democrats view prior to Hillary's campaign).
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Who are Congresspeople spending their time fundraising from?
Hint: it isn't John and Jane Q. Public
MisterP
(23,730 posts)because SCOTUS
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)President Obama was against Citizens United but had to use a super pac in 2012 to keep the contest close. Hillary Clinton is against Citizens United and has committed to only appoint SCOTUS justices who will vote to overturn this decision https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/05/14/hillary-clintons-litmus-test-for-supreme-court-nominees-a-pledge-to-overturn-citizens-united/
Clinton's emphatic opposition to the ruling, which allowed corporations and unions to spend unlimited sums on independent political activity, garnered the strongest applause of the afternoon from the more than 200 party financiers gathered in Brooklyn for a closed-door briefing from the Democratic candidate and her senior aides, according to some of those present.
"She got major applause when she said would not name anybody to the Supreme Court unless she has assurances that they would overturn" the decision, said one attendee, who, like others, requested anonymity to describe the private session.
If the make-up of the court does not change by 2017, four of the justices will be 78 years of age or older by the time the next president is inaugurated.
This is the only practical way to undo the damage done by Citizen United in that it will be impossible to get a constitutional amendment through congress and the states to undo this decision. That means that if you want to get rid of Citizens United, then one must support a candidate who can win in 2016 and support the most viable general election candidate.
Sanders is a very weak general election candidate who would be killed in a general election with negative ads. The only safe way to get rid of Citizens United is to elect a Democrat to be POTUS
revbones
(3,660 posts)I suggest you read about him supercharging Citizen's United with his SpeechNow decision.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Your claims are false. Here are some direct quotes from Hillary Clintonhttp://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/268174-clinton-i-have-a-bunch-of-litmus-tests-for-supreme-court
I do have a litmus test, I have a bunch of litmus tests, because the next president could get as many as three appointments, the former first lady responded. Its one of the many reasons why we cant turn the White House over to the Republicans again.
Clinton said her potential appointments would have to support the Voting Rights Act, parts of which were invalidated by the current group of justices.
She also said potential nominees would have to believe that money does not equal speech, which led to the landmark Citizens United decision that paved the way for super-PACs.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)from Wall Street and other special corporate interests?
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)As a private citizen she gave speeches. Which are perfectly legal.
And anyone quibbling about her making money after she worked for the country for free for almost 20 years as Bills FL in AR and in the White House as FLOTUS, is kind of sad.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)creon
(1,183 posts)It is all deniable.
It was all done with winks and nods.
No letters; no emails; no phone records.
It was all done at dinner at le Bernardin
QC
(26,371 posts)what with all these threads about what an OUTRAGE!!! it is that she pays a higher tax rate than he does.
Well, she made ten or fifteen times as much money as he did.
That's progressive taxation. Democrats used to support that.
Is there any cherished principle their fan club is not willing to sacrifice to gratify the Clintons' narcissism?
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)that the ones who scream the loudest that Sanders isn't a Democrat are the very ones who embrace Republican positions over Democratic positions.
QC
(26,371 posts)But yes, it's very interesting that being a good Democrat means being a Republican now.
No thanks.
I'm not willing to throw away everything important just to help Hillary complete her résumé.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)I too am not willing to discard my principles to vote for someone who doesn't represent my values.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)Wow, I thought everyone knew that. It's old news to anyone who followed the case. I guess you didn't.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)azmom
(5,208 posts)is that it will send a message that Sanders small contribution manner of funding campaigns is ineffective. If that is the case, say good bye to any type of reform.
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)that talks about Debbie Wasserman Shultz who is also out there undercutting the dissenting opinion in Citizens United.
She actually wants people to believe that only Republicans can be corrupted by Corporate cash.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1416499
elleng
(130,908 posts)for Goldman Sachs speaking fees or JPMorgan Chase donations (and just by the way, Elizabeth Warren believes she can prove that), then you cant prove that these donations are corrupting,' simple as that.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)They have NO idea what being a Democrat is. Let them follow this loser and her loser husband. Maybe someday justice will catch up with the Clinton's. I hope it's soon. I can't handle all this stupidity much longer.