Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

RandySF

(58,823 posts)
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 10:36 PM Apr 2016

Why Is Bernie Sanders Slamming Southern Democrats?

Primary elections, however, are completely different animals. Primary elections are about voters within a political party—and sometimes without, in open primaries, which are another debate that we may get to in the future—having their shot at choosing which candidate their party should nominate. There are of course some states that matter more than others. But there aren’t any individual votes that matter more than others, at least among primaries (caucuses don’t usually report individual votes). For Sanders to dismiss Clinton’s Southern votes as distortions of reality is hugely insulting to Democrats from the region.

And to one group of Democrats in particular, who are concentrated in the South and who happen to be the most loyal Democratic voters in the country. I don’t think Sanders has a racist bone in his body, but is there not a certain racial tone-deafness in dismissing the votes of millions of black voters as distortions of reality? This is the one moment, their state’s presidential primary, when these African American voters have a chance to flex some actual political power in the national arena.

And then to write off Clinton’s Southern votes as “conservative” is just a lie intended to fool the gullible. Sure, the South is conservative at general-election time. But at Democratic primary time, it’s pretty darn liberal. It’s blacks and Latinos (where they exist in large numbers) and trial lawyers and college professors and school teachers and social workers and the like. They’re not conservative, any more than the people caucusing for Sanders in Idaho and Oklahoma are conservative, and he knows it.

The topic of Sanders’s own red state wins actually raises another point. He’s won seven states that both he and Clinton would/will lose by at least 15 points in November, and in many cases more like 30: Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas, and Alaska, along with the aforementioned two. And he won them in caucuses, not primaries, which nearly everyone agrees are less democratic, less representative of the whole of the voting population.

Now let’s look at Clinton’s red-state wins. She’s won 10 red states: Texas, Arizona, Missouri, Georgia, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, and South Carolina (I’m calling North Carolina purple, and of course Virginia and Florida and Ohio). Neither she nor Sanders would probably win in these states either, although a Clinton win over Donald Trump seems conceivable in a couple of them.

In any case, yes, they’ve both won states that are unwinnable in the fall. Yet do you hear Clinton going around saying that Sanders’s victories in these states are distortions of reality? I don’t. But Sanders goes around bragging, as he did at the debate, about winning eight of the last nine contests, “many of them by landslide” margins, referring to these very states where he or Clinton would get walloped in the fall, while denouncing her red-state wins as aberrational. What is it about his red states that count—or more to the point, perhaps, what is it about hers that makes them not count?


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/16/why-is-bernie-sanders-slamming-southern-democrats.html

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why Is Bernie Sanders Slamming Southern Democrats? (Original Post) RandySF Apr 2016 OP
When you can't win on the merits, you go ugly. CrowCityDem Apr 2016 #1
He's not. morningfog Apr 2016 #2
He is Congruente Apr 2016 #31
he's not, you'all just have nothing of substance to discuss that doesn't make Hillary look worse. Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #3
oh dear.... RazBerryBeret Apr 2016 #4
Sanders says Southern primaries ‘distort reality’ Gothmog Apr 2016 #5
It's not that complicated. dogman Apr 2016 #7
Excellent post, Gothmog. Hortensis Apr 2016 #37
Sanders' campaign has unknowingly, or maybe knowingly shown this, "it's all about white votes" brush Apr 2016 #6
Do you realize what you wrote? dogman Apr 2016 #9
yeha he only had 6 months in the places he won too nt msongs Apr 2016 #13
But the Clinton machine was not as deeply rooted in those states. dogman Apr 2016 #16
He should have joined the party years ago and built relationships, gotten national recognition . . . brush Apr 2016 #15
Unlike Hillary he hasn't been running for President for 15 years. dogman Apr 2016 #17
Come on, they've been rough on Hillary for decades. She's taken it and it still standing. brush Apr 2016 #19
No doubt they will hit him, but she is already damaged goods. dogman Apr 2016 #20
Nah. Bernie can't overcome her lead. He joined the party too late. brush Apr 2016 #21
If its big, she's on her way, if it's close, hang on for CA. dogman Apr 2016 #22
And who in the splintered repug party will beat her? brush Apr 2016 #23
in that scenario it would have to be Cruz, but I fear Trump. dogman Apr 2016 #24
Wrong direction. People are leaving the party in droves. It doesn't help to have a corrupt DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2016 #26
Buh-bye. brush Apr 2016 #33
+1, seeing these "southern red states" are just as red as the ones he won that are mostly white uponit7771 Apr 2016 #34
To suggest Florida is the Deep South is asinine. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #8
One probably gets that impression from the Statehouse. dogman Apr 2016 #10
All I know is when I was growing up in Orlando and Miami all my friends were transplants. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #12
That was the lie Hillary tried in the debate... northernsouthern Apr 2016 #29
We shouldn't be dismissing some of the most heterogeneous states in the union. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #39
You are missing the issue. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #41
Northern Florida seems like the deep south to me m-lekktor Apr 2016 #43
You are correct... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #44
because they are not his best demographic, like Utah, Idaho, Montana, etc nt msongs Apr 2016 #11
Damn Montana ibegurpard Apr 2016 #27
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Iliyah Apr 2016 #14
As a southern dem woolldog Apr 2016 #18
It's actually stupid.. i've seen AA voters on twitter who are sick of this.. say they have relatives Cha Apr 2016 #25
Vermont is pretty much only white, and racist, just look at these 2016 images from it. northernsouthern Apr 2016 #28
why is Chelsea's Beast pumping this untruth- azurnoir Apr 2016 #30
How did he do this? I only saw him silvershadow Apr 2016 #32
He wasn't refering to the red states he won that are not deep south, the delineation is demographics uponit7771 Apr 2016 #36
When did you stop beating your wife? Sky Masterson Apr 2016 #35
Because as a black southern voter myself Setsuna1972 Apr 2016 #38
I don't know why you're all so excited your candidate apparently leans so far right the most Vinca Apr 2016 #40
"Deep South" code words.... workinclasszero Apr 2016 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author silvershadow Apr 2016 #45
They should just come out and say it out loud Setsuna1972 Apr 2016 #46
+100 workinclasszero Apr 2016 #47

Gothmog

(145,242 posts)
5. Sanders says Southern primaries ‘distort reality’
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 10:46 PM
Apr 2016

Sanders' lame justification for why he is 2.4 million votes and 210 delegates behind is really sad http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/sanders-says-southern-primaries-distort-reality

In fact, the same week that Clinton did well in states like Florida and Virginia, Sanders won in Oklahoma and Nebraska. There’s no reason to believe those Democratic voters are any more or less important – or more or less in line with reality – than any other group of Democratic voters.

What’s more, the South may be filled with “red” states, but in Democratic primaries, it’s economically liberal African-American voters who represent the bulk of those who are turning out to participate. Their votes don’t “distort” reality so much as they reflect reality.

Maybe the argument is that Southern voters count, but they shouldn’t have a prominent role at the start of the primary season. Except, (a) the South doesn’t go first; the overwhelmingly white states of Iowa and New Hampshire go first; and (b) I don’t know why states with fewer black voters would do a better job of ensuring that reality isn’t distorted.

Perhaps Sanders means Southern states aren’t truly representative of the Democratic electorate. Except (a) given the importance of African-American communities in the party, I’m not sure why not; and (b) are voters in Utah, Kansas, and Idaho more representative of the Democratic electorate?

Maybe he means that Democrats won’t do well in these Southern states in the general election. That’s true, but once again, the same can be said of many of the states Sanders has also won.

As we discussed the other day, the New York Times reported last week that the Sanders campaign deliberately focused its efforts away from the South for a reason: “Sanders and his advisers and allies knew that black voters would be decisive in those Southern contests, but he had been unable to make significant inroads with them.”

As a tactical matter, this made perfect sense. There was no reason for the senator and his operation to build an electoral strategy around states he was likely to lose.

But as a rhetorical matter, arguing that states in which black voters were decisive “kind of distort reality” is a very different kind of message, one that Sanders still has time to change.

Sanders' revolution is a fantasy and his justifications for being behind do not stand up

dogman

(6,073 posts)
7. It's not that complicated.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:01 PM
Apr 2016

If the first 10 states were in the Northwest would you view that as distorting reality?

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
37. Excellent post, Gothmog.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:10 AM
Apr 2016

The Southern primaries alone would "distort reality" briefly for more than one reason but notably because a very large portion of the 13% of Americans who are black live there. A third of us in Georgia are black.

But so what? Would Bernie have been happier if Georgia took Vermont's place in the primary schedule?The first primaries and the various regions that follow all create temporary distortions, such as the recent string of white states that also fail to represent America's sizable Latino population, but in the end the American electorate has voted.

?w=640&h=494
(Interestingly, there has been a phenomenon of blacks "returning" for cultural reasons to the south in recent years, although many were born elsewhere to parents who once left to seek better lives, so this map probably understates their concentration.)

Btw, Sanders' comments just dig his hole deeper with blacks, and no doubt with other racial and ethnic groups who are as sensitive to unintended dogwhistle notes as to intended ones. He won't be needing their votes in future races, of course, but he should care.

brush

(53,778 posts)
6. Sanders' campaign has unknowingly, or maybe knowingly shown this, "it's all about white votes"
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 10:56 PM
Apr 2016

preference from the jump. It's the dumbest strategy ever.

He did well in the mostly white early states (Iowa and New Hampshire) but not the southern states with many AA voters. Hell, they almost bragged that they didn't contest the southern primaries hard because they won't be carried in the general election.

I mentioned dumb strategy earlier, well that's what I mean. Primary voters determine the nominee. You can't get to the general without getting enough primary voters to vote for you. ALL VOTES MATTER, including black ones, but they say they didn't campaign for them.

Again — DUMB. If Sanders had won two or three of those southern primaries he might be in the lead.

Ya can't win the Democratic Party nomination with just winning mostly white votes. That time has passed, just as it's passed for the general. The demographics of the country is browning as we speak.

Romney won a huge majority of white votes but couldn't beat the Obama coalition of blacks, Latinos, LGBTers, Asians, women, AND progressive whites — not just progressive whites.

The Sanders campaign has no one to blame but themselves.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
9. Do you realize what you wrote?
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:05 PM
Apr 2016

Bernie's campaign did not choose IA and NH. the Clintons have been involved in those Southern States for 40 years. Bernie had 6 months.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
16. But the Clinton machine was not as deeply rooted in those states.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:20 PM
Apr 2016

They are still a staple in the South. Those States are content with the status quo in the Party. They defected for Obama and it is now Hillary's turn. Bernie couldn't really hold hands and pray in the Churches like Hillary did.

brush

(53,778 posts)
15. He should have joined the party years ago and built relationships, gotten national recognition . . .
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:19 PM
Apr 2016

by working to raise money and elect other dem candidates, thus earning party loyalty and super delegates when his time to run as a dem came.

Yes, that's thinking ahead, admittedly, but if he had, he'd probably, as I said in the other post, have won some of those southern primaries, especially with his civil rights history. Black voters would have known about him.

But he didn't think about getting recognition outside of New England until he knew he needed to get on TV in the Democratic Party debates because he wasn't going to get any coverage running as an independent.

So let's face it, joining the party was an opportunistic move. He knew what he had to do.

Too bad he didn't do it years earlier.

And yes, I realize what I wrote.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
17. Unlike Hillary he hasn't been running for President for 15 years.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:28 PM
Apr 2016

It is time for the outsider and my fear is that the other outsider in the GOP will be able to ride that wave. I think Hillary's negatives are just to high. All this talk that Bernie is too rough on her is insane when you realize what Trump or Cruz will do. It seems that when he has enough time to work a state he can win.

brush

(53,778 posts)
19. Come on, they've been rough on Hillary for decades. She's taken it and it still standing.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:39 PM
Apr 2016

Wonder if Sanders will be able to say the same after the repugs start on him.

It won't be pretty, I mean with the Sandinista/Nicaragua thing and the Moscow trip. He's been spared so far.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
20. No doubt they will hit him, but she is already damaged goods.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:43 PM
Apr 2016

They have been hitting her and it has affected her. Obama hit her in 2008 and she is taking a beating now. Her unfavorables and her failure to unite the voters will do her in.

brush

(53,778 posts)
21. Nah. Bernie can't overcome her lead. He joined the party too late.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:57 PM
Apr 2016

New York will go for Clinton as she bought home millions of dollars in funds after the 9/11 attacks. She was elected there twice as a US senator. She's got it.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
22. If its big, she's on her way, if it's close, hang on for CA.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:02 AM
Apr 2016

I think she will lose the General, but that's not something I want to see.

brush

(53,778 posts)
23. And who in the splintered repug party will beat her?
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 12:08 AM
Apr 2016

After Trump gets through with their convention after they try to steal it from him, their nominee won't even be able to get elected dog catcher.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
26. Wrong direction. People are leaving the party in droves. It doesn't help to have a corrupt
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 02:53 AM
Apr 2016

frontrunner and a DNC chair who works with Republicans to screw people. Have fun with the party. I believe I'm going independent after the general.

dogman

(6,073 posts)
10. One probably gets that impression from the Statehouse.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:08 PM
Apr 2016

Sadly our Statehouses up North are suffering the same fate now.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
12. All I know is when I was growing up in Orlando and Miami all my friends were transplants.
Fri Apr 15, 2016, 11:12 PM
Apr 2016

If we had a friend who was a native Floridian we called him "Country" or "Pioneer"

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
29. That was the lie Hillary tried in the debate...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:15 AM
Apr 2016

She said she did not just win there, and listed four in a row that are the deep south.

The term "Deep South" is defined in a variety of ways: Most definitions include the states Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Arkansas is sometimes included or else considered "in the Peripheral or Rim South rather than the Deep South."


DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
39. We shouldn't be dismissing some of the most heterogeneous states in the union.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:45 AM
Apr 2016

My suburban Los Angeles apartment floor is more heterogeneous than Burlington and I can prove it.

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
41. You are missing the issue.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:33 AM
Apr 2016

The comments about the south are because our side has been labeled racist and sexist for months now. The took the narrative of the south and ran wit it as only whites support Bernie. We pointed out that the the people voting for Hillary according to the majority of the exit polls did not know who Bernie was. They then ran with the you are calling blacks uniformed. We then said he the rest of the country has not voted, Hillary's big gains were from all the south so just wait for the rest of the nation to vote. They called us racist. We explained how the south has a history of not supporting our candidates, so just wait for the rest to vote, they ran with disfranchisement. I am from the south, all reports show almost ever state sans Florida in the south had the lowest showing for our party in ages (if ever). The democratic party has been shrinking more and more down there, while the republican has actually been growing. The south has become the don't rock the ship party since they are afraid to lose any more people. We still go called racist. We posted a list of the horrible, racist laws they have done recently, how they are the least friendly area to lgbt communities, how they have faked investigations for years to target and arrest minorities, how they have ads for the KKK now running in Arkansas. The then countered with her newest meme not all my wins were int he deep south. They are now attempting to redefine it, in the debate she listed four or such of her wins as not deep south that are. If hillary was not winning the south it would have been under the bus long ago, she did with MLK last election...
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2016/01/jan_7_2008_the_day_hillary_clinton_lost_the_black_vote.html

She is still using the dreamer line. Also the idea that the minority vote was the only thing that voted in the south is also wrong, they are the minority vote, they had a turn out as bad as the rest, in a few of the states it is a bit higher, but only Hawaii has the minority population white (Alaska is high too, and Washington here is more diverse than other 28 states or something like that). HRC made this about race and has been playing that race card as fast and often as she can...it started to wear thin with the #BernieMadeMeWhite. I feel embarrassed when she does it or pulls out the dead only when it is convenient. So that is the real issue. She is dismissing the minority vote like she owns it and dismissing the Bernie vote like they are not democrats. Florida won't be an isseu next election with global warming as it is, I read if the water raises 1" Florida will be under 3" of water (because it is so flat...Florida burn). No my main issue with Florida is Debbie and Governor Scott...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2016/04/11/florida-governor-rick-scott-posts-video-response-customer-starbucks-tirade-caught-camera/9JROogfR06JWolwOWKwUkK/story.html

He made a video attacking one lady in a coffee shop.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
44. You are correct...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:51 AM
Apr 2016

Some people call Northern Florida Southern Georgia but you have to keep in mind the major population centers are Central and Southern Florida. Miami-Dade County is nearly 70% Latino.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
27. Damn Montana
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 02:54 AM
Apr 2016

With our Democratic Governor and Democratic senator and four of five top statewide office-holders Democrats...we just can't hold a candle to Democratic strongholds like South Carolina, Mississippi, or the motherload of Democratic votes: Texas...

Cha

(297,232 posts)
25. It's actually stupid.. i've seen AA voters on twitter who are sick of this.. say they have relatives
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 02:48 AM
Apr 2016

in New York.

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
28. Vermont is pretty much only white, and racist, just look at these 2016 images from it.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 03:10 AM
Apr 2016
These are all from this year.










Even their state flag is racist!




Oh, wait, That is Arkansas in the south...I take it back your point is stupid.


The HRC camp is getting called out on their racism, stop trying to back pedal out of what you did. I am not going to forgive the way many from this party has used race as a toy. I think we need a sticky on this so I can stop explaining this to people that are somehow blind of what happened.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
36. He wasn't refering to the red states he won that are not deep south, the delineation is demographics
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 06:55 AM
Apr 2016

... and that's made known to anyone paying attention.

Sanders has lost the benefit of the doubt with me, first it was Cornell West... he went down hill from there

Sky Masterson

(5,240 posts)
35. When did you stop beating your wife?
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 06:53 AM
Apr 2016

This is asinine and a douchey attempt to paint a man who fought hard for civil rights when it wasn't cool to do so.
Maybe we can find another school shooting to exploit for Hillary again.
Your side is not helping candidate flip-a-coin

Setsuna1972

(332 posts)
38. Because as a black southern voter myself
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 07:15 AM
Apr 2016

Sanders just doesn't impress me . He's a flimflam man trying to sell people snake oil .

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
40. I don't know why you're all so excited your candidate apparently leans so far right the most
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:02 AM
Apr 2016

conservative states that traditionally vote Republican in the general election are supporting her. Haven't you learned that in the end conservative voters always opt to vote for the real Republican?

Response to workinclasszero (Reply #42)

Setsuna1972

(332 posts)
46. They should just come out and say it out loud
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 05:58 PM
Apr 2016

Deep South is a slick way of calling southern black voters stupid and uninformed . I will never forget logging in here after the SC and first Super Tursday primaries , seeing and reading so many posts about " the South should be ignored ", and "the black voters are uneducated with their slave mentality to fully appreciate Bernie Sanders". I will never support a bunch of holier than thou fools who insist of insulting people of color and expecting the same people they've insulted to blindly follow their Dear Leader.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Why Is Bernie Sanders Sla...