The angry sexism of Bernie's "YES or NO!"

[pnwmom]

For those who can't read English very well, when a person says, "Are you or are you not. . " and someone else replies "I am" -- then that reply means "Yes."

In Hillary's case, she IS supporting raising the cap, but she is ALSO supporting expanding the tax to investment income, and she would support any bill that Congress passes that expands funding with either or both of these approaches.

She has said this again and again in the other debates and Town Halls and it's impossible that Bernie doesn't understand this.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/15/1515612/-The-angry-sexism-of-YES-OR-NO

HIM: Are you or are you not supporting legislation to lift the cap on taxable income and expand Social Security for 58 years and increase benefits...

HER: I am...

HIM: — YES OR NO?!?

My reaction? “How astoundingly sexist and arrogant!”

There was so much male privilege wrapped up in his performance, from the constant finger-wagging and waving, to laughing, but it peaked with this.

What was the privilege?

First, the privilege was the idea that there is only one simple solution to a complex problem, and he had it. It’s pretty typical, frankly, and any female in an office has seen it. A guy gets an idea and then demands everybody agree, rather than consider other ideas, or even that a big problem may have multiple solutions. How many of us have been there, where a guy has an idea, and if a woman says, “well, I think we should think about X, too, because it’s not so simple,” he answers, “you’re trying to change the subject — answer whether you agree or not”?

Second, the privilege was the idea that he, not the moderator, gets to demand that she answer his question, and not just answer it, but answer it exactly and only in his words, and not hers. Ladies, have you ever heard this before?

[daleanime]

1. Agreed.....

No way should Hillary ever be expected to deal with a straight answer.


It goes against her strongly held religious beliefs.



Just in case.

[pnwmom]

14. Her plan would allow a rise in the cap AND/OR an expansion to investment income

that is currently not taxed -- depending on how Congress wanted to handle it.

She has explained this at length and repeatedly in other forums, but Bernie was determined to cut her off without giving her a chance to explain again in this debate.

For some reason, he wants her to commit to only raising the cap, and that's just stupid.

[daleanime]

56. A piece of advice, which I know she won't take....

if she wanted to change the number of Americans that view her as untrustworthy, she needs answer questions instead of dancing around trying to give the impression that she has.

[Hortensis]

113. Spot on, Pnwmom.

HRC is far more sophisticated than Sanders' simplistic black-and-white views allow and her plans for financial reform likewise.

Wonder how many were offended by that authoritarian "yes or no!" Did not go over well with me when I saw it later on video.

[RobertEarl]

137. And then there is this

[Hortensis]

139. Sanders voted with Democrats 94% of the time for 25 years.

Trash them, trash him.

BUT, my point was that Sanders is neither particularly sophisticated or knowledgeable economically (and Hillary is). I didn't realize this for some time. Since his emphasis is socioeconomic, I just assumed he had spent his past 25 years in Congress (and surely more?) learning about what he cared about. Instead, we've learned that his emphasis in those decades was on lecturing his colleagues about what was wrong with them. An ideologue spouting dogma he apparently never needed to develop further.

Barney Frank, an expert who helped Hillary develop her economic plan, has an extremely good grasp of economic issues, one of very, very few in Congress, and it's a shame he retired. All who know him at least take note when this man speaks. Frank shares many of Bernie's goals, but feels his plans for achieving them, such as they are, are not doable.

***************************

Btw, Hillary's statement (below) during this vote proves that she did not vote to authorize war, but rather a use of force to encourage Saddam Hussain to allow UN inspections, and that only to be used if absolutely necessary. This was before Bush II lied about WMD and proceeded to use this authorization as a preliminary to invasion.

The evidence is clear. On Oct. 10, 2002, during the Senate debate on a resolution to authorize the use of force in Iraq, Clinton rose to express her highly qualified support. First, though, she criticized the idea of attacking Saddam then and there, either alone or “with any allies we can muster.” Such a course, she said, “is fraught with danger,” in part because “it would set a precedent that could come back to haunt us,” legitimizing invasions that Russia might launch against Georgia, India against Pakistan, or China against Taiwan.

“So,” she continued, “the question is, how do we do our best to both diffuse the threat Saddam Hussein poses to his people, the region, including Israel, and the United States—and, at the same time, work to maximize our international support and strengthen the United Nations.”

She went on to say that there was “no perfect approach to this thorny dilemma” and that “people of good faith and high intelligence can reach diametrically opposing conclusions.” But, she concluded, “I believe the best course is to go to the United Nations for a strong resolution” that calls “for complete, unlimited inspections with cooperation expected and demanded” from Saddam.

“If we get the resolution the president seeks, and Saddam complies,” Clinton added, “disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. … If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.” This international support is “crucial,” she added, because, “after shots are fired and bombs are dropped, not all consequences are predictable.”

Then came, from today’s vantage, the key passage: “Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first … I take the president at his word that he will try hard to pass a United Nations resolution and seek to avoid war, if possible. Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely and war less likely—and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause—I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go away with delay will oppose any United Nations resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.”

She added, “This is a difficult vote. This is probably the hardest decision I have ever had to make. Any vote that may lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. … My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose.” A vote for the resolution, she argued, “is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our president. And we say to him: Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.”

Full story at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2016/02/hillary_clinton_told_the_truth_about_her_iraq_war_vote.html

[RobertEarl]

140. Quote:

Hillary said: "I take the president at his word"

Proof right there about her judgement capabilities. She failed. We don't need anyone like that as president.

[Hortensis]

141. Congrats on at least combing through for

something to use against her, RobertEarl. Seriously. Most would stop reading as soon as they realized her words conflicted with their Hillary-the-Warmonger notion.

[mhatrw]

93. Clinton and her supporters are ever persecuted and always victims.

[revbones]

2. You guys are too funny with your sexism colored glasses.

She waffled around on the answer multiple times. Even the moderators tried to get a simple yes or no from her on answers. It was comical the way she avoided answering.

She can't even simply say she won't lie.

[pnwmom]

17. It's not waffling to refuse to let your answer be dictated by someone else's terms.

He says "Are you or are you not"

and she replies: "I am."

Do you understand English? That means YES. But then he has to yell at her "YES OR NO!"

Her plan would expand SS funding not just through raising the limit but also through expanding the types of income that are taxed -- but he was determined not to let her explain that.

Although she already has, over and over, in almost every other debate and Town hall and he knows perfectly well what her position is.

[revbones]

29. No, in all that waffling I don't think she agreed to raise the cap.

You might want to recheck that. I don't think she's ever explicitly came out for raising the cap there or elsewhere. If you've got proof, I'd certainly like to see that.

[pnwmom]

49. It's on her website. Have you ever even looked?

But she's not limiting herself to that. She said in an earlier forum that if Congress sends her a bill, she will accept raising the cap AND/OR expanding the tax to investment income, in whatever combination the Congress decides is best.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/social-security-and-medicare/

Hillary understands that there is no way to accomplish that goal without asking the highest-income Americans to pay more, including options to tax some of their income above the current Social Security cap, and taxing some of their income not currently taken into account by the Social Security system.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/clinton-sanders-agree-expand-social-security-taxes-beyond-wages-investment

And how would they get more money?

Clinton said she's looking at "a couple of different ways" to tax the wealthy, including raising the cap on income that is subject to Social Security taxes. Right now, the Social Security tax is phased out on wages above $118,500.

Clinton said she also wants to "expand the existing tax to passive income that wealthy people have so that we do get more revenue into the Social Security Trust Fund." In other words, she would apply Social Security taxes not just to wages, but also to unearned income generated by investments.

[revbones]

53. Is the sky blue in your reality?

"She said in an earlier forum that if Congress sends her a bill, she will accept raising the cap AND/OR expanding the tax to investment income, in whatever combination the Congress decides is best. "

That is not advocating for raising the cap. That's just signing the bill.


Similarly "looking at a couple of different ways" is just waffle words.

Why can't she just be for or against raising the cap? Because she doesn't want to say she's against it as it will cost votes.

[pnwmom]

57. No. Most of the time where I live it's gray, actually. n/t

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

120. There is a study that says if a person starts with "Well..."

They are likely lying to you.

[azmom]

3. The absurdity is nothing but laughable at

this point.

[beam me up scottie]

4. It's pearl clutching time ladies, who's with me?

[QC]

10. Has any other campaign ever been so averse to discussing issues?

Of course, trying to discuss issues is risky with a candidate who has held every possible position on every one of them, since one can so easily say the wrong thing, but you'd think they might discuss something in the real world now and then.

And does it really serve Hillary's interests to depict her as a helpless victim trembling before sexist onslaughts every way she turns? It's all very Victorian.

[beam me up scottie]

15. I've never seen anything like it, it's bizarre.

Just tonight the op was demanding that Bernie release his tax returns after he released them, in another recent op she accused Bernie of having and keeping her credit card info, now she's back to insisting that treating Hillary as an equal during a debate is sexism. If he was the villain she claims he is would millions of progressives still support him?

And yeah, my mother taught me to hold my own against my brothers, she would have been disgusted if I played the 'Stop picking on me - I'm just a girl' card.

[QC]

20. Usually, the object of a cult of personality is heroic.

The object of this cult is a trembling victim too delicate for this cold, cruel world, liable to collapse in tears should one disagree with her position on the Social Security Trust Fund.

I don't get the appeal, and I really don't get how it's supposed to help Hillary, who is far from weak and helpless as anyone in politics.

[beam me up scottie]

37. I'm getting tired of this idiotic excuse that every time she does badly it's someone else's fault

This is the supposedly fearless woman we're supposed to believe can take on Putin and Iran without flinching?

Either she can hack it and owns her mistakes or she can't, pick one.

[QC]

42. Oh please, you know Putin or ISIS would never be rude to her.

That old hippie grandpa, on the other hand, is a cruel, cruel man.

[beam me up scottie]

43. LOL! Right?

[QC]

47. He THUNDERED at her!

[beam me up scottie]

50. Oh my stars, I'm feeling faint again!

[QC]

52. And that THRUSTING FINGER!!!

This is all so Jane Austen.

[beam me up scottie]

58. It reads like bad porn: the throbbing thrusting finger was too much for her...

[Armstead]

63. Go to your room

[beam me up scottie]

64. Ha ha! Remember this?

[Armstead]

71. Uh oh

[QC]

70. And so she becomes faint, and being unable to reach her smelling salts in time,

collapses into swirling darkness, her bosom heaving...

[beam me up scottie]

74. Just as she was ready to surrender, Thorn Thrustfinger thundered his enthusiasm...

[Odin2005]

128. Oh my!

[frylock]

89. ..

[Odin2005]

121. It's the natural end point of play-the-victim politics.

Hillary is beloved by these people exactly because she plays the victim card so well.

Ironically by doing so they are showing their own sexism because they are implying the old misogynist trope that women are weak, easily hurt, and need to be "protected".

[Odin2005]

127. So many of these "social justice warriors" are their own worst enemy.

All they are doing is reinforcing the "women are weak" trope.

[Armstead]

31. I'm not a lady but I'm shocked, shiocked

[beam me up scottie]

39. LOL! Did you read the comments at kos? The idiot diarist is getting killed!

[Armstead]

44. I'm trying to reduce my consumption of stupid shit

[beam me up scottie]

46. Me too but once it's too late and I've read the entry the antidote is quite delicious.

The kossacks don't suffer fools gladly.

[QC]

45. But he THUNDERED at her!

[beam me up scottie]

48. HE THRUST HIS FINGER AT HER!

[QC]

54. It reminds of of a Portlandia sketch.

"Every time you point, I see a penis."

[beam me up scottie]

59. LOLOLOL! Perfect!

[m-lekktor]

132. lol nt

[treestar]

111. That's you if Hillary did that to Bernie

If she cut in with Yes or No when Bernie was trying to explain something? Call out the fainting couches. You know it's true.

[Armstead]

115. I might get pissed but I wouldn't blame it on sexism

[treestar]

109. so you have no problem with sexism now?

Bernie sure works miracles.

[beam me up scottie]

116. Oh I have a problem with actual sexism, but people who cry wolf are just as despicable imo.

And Bernie has nothing to do with that, my mother raised me to act and fight as an equal and to own up to my mistakes instead of whining and making excuses. She would be ashamed of me if I expected men to treat me with kid gloves because they thought I was too delicate to handle myself. And I would be ashamed of myself if I played the victim.

So spare me the faux indignation, I'm not buying it for one second, Bernie treated Hillary as an he would have treated a male opponent in a debate, that is the exact opposite of sexism.

Hillary sure brings out victimhood in some folks.

[Odin2005]

129. Implying women are weak, helpless creatures is what is sexism.

[Odin2005]

119. Watch out, BMUS, you'll be accused of sexism for using the term "pearl-clutching"!

[beam me up scottie]

123. Right? We Bernie Babes* aren't real feminists anyway.

If we were we would be supporting Hillary don't you know?






*note to jury: Bernie Babes are women who support Bernie, it's not sexist to refer to ourselves as such. Check out our Facebook page! Thank you for serving.

[Odin2005]

125. Don't forget you are going to Hell!

[beam me up scottie]

126. Yep, and we only support Bernie because we want to be with men.

[slipslidingaway]

5. Every word/gesture should not be viewed by one's gender ... or religion, race, sexual preference. nt

[SusanCalvin]

22. If I may,

sexual *orientation*. (It just popped out at me.)

[slipslidingaway]

36. Yes and thank you ...

[grasswire]

6. not getting much traction here!! nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

7. I hope no one pays you to analyze shit for a living. You're not good at it.

[murielm99]

8. Great post.

Thank you.

[TCJ70]

9. How is this sexist?

Are straight answers only supposed to be expected from males now? Good grief...

[pnwmom]

18. Because of his entitled manner of speaking to her, demanding an answer only on his terms.

It was the job of the moderator to ask questions, not him.

And another time, when he asked her a question, and she tried to answer it, he snapped back "EXCUSE ME! I think I'm responding."

So rude.

[SusanCalvin]

25. I just saw something very similar from Hillary to the moderators.

Watching the rerun now.

I really think this is grasping at straws.

[vintx]

11. Expecting a woman to give a straight answer is sexist now?

Please stop.

[treestar]

110. you're defining it that way

demanding a "straight answer" of anyone who is trying to discuss something is condescending.

If Hillary did it to Bernie that would probably result in many fainting spells.

[vintx]

112. I seriously think I'll stop identifying as a feminist.

This is blatantly idiotic.

Women are better off without this kind of patronizing nonsense

[beam me up scottie]

117. ^^^THAT^^^

Some of the "feminists" around here make me want to reconsider using that label as well.

[Kittycat]

12. What? Lol

Quit claiming sexism for everything. You've completely jumped the shark, and it's demeaning to women who have truly felt the abuse of legitimate sexism.

[ebayfool]

41. That. Right there.

Couldn't agree more! It's insulting to other women and if they really thought it through, it's insulting to Clinton.

[Politicalboi]

13. Angry sexism from Bernie while you support

The woman who let her husband have affairs and then call those women whores. Just stop it already. Sexism, while Bill Clinton is looking to get back into the White House. This would be funny if it weren't so serious.

[George II]

33. She didn't "let" her husband have affairs. That comment in itself is sexist, like it's always....

...the woman's fault that her husband strayed.

That is offensive.

[JudyM]

16. At least he *asks* ... Rather than yelling declarative lies, e.g., that he doesn't know how to break

up the banks, which he certainly does, as has been 'clarified' by other reporters who've spoken with him. Or her volumes of other high-volume l i e s.

[jfern]

19. The sexism card jumped the shark long ago

[David__77]

21. If Clinton or someone else says so, then it is.

I'm male and don't have an experience of myself as female - as I don't identify as such. I get that some things I say or do might be experienced by others as misogynistic. And I'm totally prepared to acknowledge and engage someone who would confront me with that. I'm hopeful that Sanders has the same perspective.

[SusanCalvin]

28. I'm female and I say it wasn't. nt

[David__77]

32. To clarify...

Based on what I read, I don't consider it to necessarily be any such thing. There are many means of tangling and engaging over ideas. Some of those might occur to some individuals as off putting or bigoted. Clinton was free to answer or not answer Sanders, or to say whatever she might have wished to say. She could have called him a misogynistic or ignored him entirely.

[SusanCalvin]

34. Ah, I see.

I initially took it as "if Hillary says it is so it is so."

[jillan]

23. How are you Hill supporters going to handle Trump or Cruz

if you can't handle Bernie Sanders

[pnwmom]

27. She's ahead 2.3 million primary and caucus votes, so she's handling it quite well. n/t

[Hiraeth]

78. you did not answer the question. n/t

[pnwmom]

80. I'll loathe Trump or Cruz. Won't you? n/t

[Hiraeth]

81. I already do.

[George II]

67. Clinton supporters are handling Sanders quite well - most notably by voting for her in primaries.

[ebayfool]

24. Good Gawd. This is one of the stupidest diaries I've seen linked from KOS yet!

Poster has contorted, stretched and stuffed so much bologna into such a short space, they should really go into sausage-making. It's gotta be hell living in that scary place, where everything experienced is so distorted.

I am female and have worked in male dominated fields. THAT was where you saw real sexism, not this little brush with Sanders. If the debate made this poster feel threatened or intimidated on Clinton's behalf, then poster has led a truly sheltered life.

All the manufactured outrage about sexism being spewed about this race does real damage to the women that are waging the real life fight for equality, and I'm getting dayum tired of seeing it. Real, strong and equal doesn't mean expecting to be treated as someone in need of protection from the big bad Bernie! Clinton is no delicate flower that needs fake outrage. He wagged a finger at her, not his dick! And yeah, I HAVE had that happen in the workplace. So spare me the poor picked on Hillary bullshit. She is a grown-ass woman, tough enough to have made it this far ... you (the KOS poster) do her and all women a disservice by pulling this shit.


Sanders was trying to pin her down to a straight frigging answer - something the moderator seemed loath to even attempt (except for Dana, she tried!). Clinton was so evasive, I don't think she would have answered yes or no if anyone had asked her if her name was Hillary!

[pnwmom]

30. She is not evasive at all. She supports BOTH raising the cap AND expanding the tax

to investment income, in whatever combination Congress comes up with to secure Social Security's future.

She has said this over and over in other debates and Town Halls.

What is so hard about this for you to understand?

[ebayfool]

38. We musta watched 2 different debates last night.

She flat out refused to answer a straight yes to 'will you protect SS benefits'. She waffled, she weasel-worded, she changed subjects. The same thing she did most of the debate.

I gotta ask, is THAT all you got from my response to the OP diary and it's unrelenting squeals of sexism?

[pnwmom]

97. No, when he demanded her to answer "are you are aren't you" she said "I AM."

And then he jumped on her with his YES OR NO demand before she could even finish her sentence.

Her reply is more complex than his, because she wants to emphasize the possibility of ALSO expanding the tax on investment income, and for some reason he doesn't. But he wanted to try to nail her and not give her a chance to fully explain her answer.

Because that's his overbearing style.

I guess this must be what he meant before the debate when he said she'd better be prepared, that he was going to act like a New Yorker.

In other words, loud and rude. That's the way HE thinks New Yorkers are supposed to do it.

[Seeinghope]

55. Good Gawd is right on the money! Hillary Clinton can't have it both ways!

She either can play with the big boys or she can't. Finger wagging? Really? How dare he? Demanding a straight answer from Hillary Clinton? How dare he? Actually I thought it was pretty clever to play "I'll release my tax return if you release your transcripts". She really was sweating bullets on that heated exchange. She tried everything that she could, not to give a definite answer. So today Bernie, true to his word, released his taxes and here is Hillary Clinton talking about "how poor Hillary Clinton is held to a different standard than everybody else". Now she will release the transcripts if the Republicans release theirs!!!!!!! WHAT????? When did they ask her for the transcripts? I thought it was Bernie. Hillary Clinton is really really desperate to keep those transcripts hidden.

Yet people on this board are worried about finger wagging and Bernie Sanders trying to pin her down? Why aren't you even a little bit curious about those transcripts? "


BTW. Hillary gave as good as she got. She did a more interrupting than usual, went past her time allotment more than usual, yelled more than usual, feigned shock more than usual. She supported and defended President Obama before she threw him under the bus. Same with Bill. She was in fine form at the debate. It definitely was not a poor Hillary Clinton night.

[ebayfool]

73. Yep. You get it. WE saw the same debate, I dunno what the OP was watching.

I esp liked the look on her face when she had to wait for the cheers to dissipate to talk. She was pizzed off!

This is NOT a shrinking flower in need of anyone swooping in to defend her delicate sensibilities. I am not a supporter, but I will give her more credit for toughness than a lot of her own people apparently.

[Seeinghope]

75. Seriously. She can duke it out with the best of them. Bernie was more courteous to her

Than she was to him to be honest with you. He just plain old pressed her on the way she never answers a question and he laughed because she is so obviously rehearsed and in full spin mode.

[seabeyond]

26. Probably one but absolutely two. That is what hit me first.

His demand of her and demanding she limit get response to what he allows.

[SusanCalvin]

35. I just saw this exact bit on the rerun.

First, the exchange was not in the order quoted. Second, I did not see it the way you characterize it at all.

[Avalux]

40. It's mind-boggling how you twist anything around to be sexist.

In your post, you preface Bernie and Hillary's statements as HIM: and HER:

I think you're the one with the problem, as you continually use being a woman as the reason why people disagree with Hillary.

[pnwmom]

51. That was how the person doing the diary did it. Can't you see it's an excerpt?

[melman]

60. The author

[img][/img]

lol

[pnwmom]

62. You think a man can't recognize sexism when he sees it? Many can. n/t

[melman]

68. Read that piece again

and try to tell me the reader isn't led to believe the writer is a woman. Talk about male privilege. Again, lol.

[Armstead]

65. Looks like Alan Alda

[beam me up scottie]

72. That is hilarious! Anyone else watch the show 'Younger'?

He reminds me of the author Hugh Shirley!

[Ken Burch]

61. He would have responded in exactly the same way to a male candidate who responded like that.

This has nothing to do with gender.

[pnwmom]

69. If she had responded to HIM that way, she would have been denounced as a shrew.

But it's just fine here when a man behaves like that.

[azurnoir]

94. No it wasn't fine when she started shriekingat an innocent young woman while flanked by

armed Secret Service escorts falsely accusing this young woman of representing the Sanders campaign when in fact the innocent victim of this intimidation was from GreenPeace and not aligned with any candidate*


see hyperbole I can do it too

[LexVegas]

66. Perfect desription: angry sexism. Rec. nt

[dchill]

77. We all float down here, Georgie.

All those strong victims. SO fucking tired of this meme. There ARE sexists. He's not one. Purveyors of false sexist memes - sexists.

[Hiraeth]

79. so, asking for clarification is sexist? really?

no, it isn't.

[pnwmom]

82. He interrupted her to DEMAND a YES or NO, like he was her interrogator.

He wasn't the moderator and it wasn't his job to cut her off before she could finish her sentence.

And yet on another occasion, when he asked a question about what she had meant, and she tried to explain, he exclaimed: "EXCUSE ME! I think i was responding."

So in the first instance she answers him, and he interrupts to demand a Yes or No.

And in the second instance, she tries to answer him, and he shouts "EXCUSE ME!"

What a rude jerk.

[Hiraeth]

83. I agree it wasn't the best debate for either of them.

[pnwmom]

84. Thank you . I agree neither one was at their best. I don't see the point of endless debates.

It's not like everyone in NY and the other upcoming states couldn't have watched the dozens of other debates, town halls, and extended interviews.

[Haveadream]

85. I am glad the primary has lasted this long

Otherwise we wouldn't have had a chance to get to know his temperament. He really does have a hair trigger temper and loses it too much.

[pnwmom]

86. I suppose that is one way of looking at it. His temper does seem to be an issue,

and his smug, angry demeanor is probably a lot of why so many people in Congress dislike him.

But the downside is his supporters have had that much more time to get worked up in hating Hillary.

[Haveadream]

87. I was unaware of that aspect of his personality

when I first became interested in him as a candidate. Now I understand why this peers lose patience with his holier than thou attitude. People who worked with him in VT say the same thing; that he was "vitriolic" and demonized people all the time. It isn't productive.

[Fawke Em]

91. She interrupts him all the time. That's just rude.

[pnwmom]

95. She doesn't stand there, waving her finger around, while he's trying to speak.

I know that men PERCEIVE women as interrupting more, but they don't. It just seems that way to the guy.

Research has proven that, as a general matter, and anyone could do it in the case of Bernie and Hillary by watching this debate and keeping score.

[Odin2005]

131. He was pissed off at her doing her usual triangulating BS and avoiding a straight answer.

Every word she says is perfectly crafted to be as content-free as possible because what her corporate donors want and what the American people want are exact opposites.

[ismnotwasm]

88. K&R

[Fawke Em]

90. Sexism=Shielding your Female Candiate from Fair Criticism.

[mhatrw]

92. Clinton and her supporters are ever persecuted and always victims.

[Eric J in MN]

96. Suppose the final two candidates were Bernie Sanders and Martin O'Malley.

Do you really think that if Martin O'Malley said the same words as Hillary Clinton on Social Security, seeming to be only half-in-favor of raising the cap, that Sanders wouldn't have said, "Yes or no" to O'Malley?

[pnwmom]

99. Many men are bullies to women and not to other men. I don't know enough about Bernie

to know if he's one of those men.

When Martin was in the race, Bernie was always polite. Maybe Martin's presence induced Bernie to behave better.

[Eric J in MN]

100. Bernie Sanders said to Martin O'Malley in the debates

- You were never in Congress!

- Stop lying about our gun records.

(approximate quotes)

[Betty Karlson]

98. Oh lord, that long dead and incessantly beaten horse again! Give it a rest already.

Not all criticism of Clinton is sexist. When she goes into over-triangulation mode, demanding a straight answer is NOT sexist, it's sensible.

"But his tone"

Being exasperated with Clinton is perfectly normal. Voicing that exasperation is a public service.

Let's talk about substance. Unless you feel that Clinton has no substance to offer, except war and greed... That's the feeling she is giving me.

[northernsouthern]

101. Again?

Not even gonna look for the thread again, but women are see as more honest than men, because of Bias, but Hillary, always one to break a glass ceilings trusted less than any on her side of the election. That is an accomplishment. How did she do it, well saying yes, and then adding a caveat or two, and then using lawyer speak to hint that she will in fact not do it. She did that there, everyone I know that saw it were embarrassed that she was such a liar, because she didn't want to say no, but she also didn't want to get caught in a lie. She failed multiple times in the debate. It is funny you think shew is so delicate you have to run a post these poor Hillary is just a little girl threads...

[Scuba]

102. The Clinton campaign desperately wants this election to be about mysogeny.

It's not.

[mainer]

103. "Yes or no" is now a sexist phrase?

Is anything NOT a sexist phrase when directed at Hillary?

[John Poet]

104. Somebody needs to GET A GRIP!!!

I noticed Hillary yelling at Bernie...

I guess that means she's an ANTI-SEMITE!!!!

[Vinca]

105. It's so sad Hillary is such a cowering weakling her supporters have to cry "sexism" in her defense

at every opportunity. Give me a freaking break. You are embarrassing your candidate.

[mcar]

106. K&R

[NastyRiffraff]

107. "Ladies, have you ever heard this before? "

Oh yes, many times, in the office, at home, in various conversations, as has any woman. I know Bernie claims to advocate for women's rights when it suits him, but he seems to be entrenched in the time of his youth where sexism was not only rampant, but expected.

And seriously, someone in his campaign should tie his arm behind his back before any debate so he can't wave that damn, annoying finger.

[treestar]

108. I hate it when anyone does the yes or no thing

because they are usually discounting your ideas and trying to make something simpler. It's arrogant in any event, but men probably do it more when a woman is on the other end than when not. Women may do it too - there are domineering types out there of both genders, but sure the men feel more entitled more often.

[AgingAmerican]

114. Translation: she doesn't support lifting the cap

[Odin2005]

118. More identity politics shit from Hillary supporters.

[Surya Gayatri]

122. K & R. Thanks for posting.

[SidDithers]

124. Jury results coming...

On Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:40 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The angry sexism of Bernie's "YES or NO!"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511749156

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

False accusations of sexism shouldn't be tolerated. It is disruptive but it also devalues the whole concept of sexism.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:46 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Offensive and disruptive
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree that this is a false accusation of sexism, and damaging to women, but I can't justify hiding it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hey Bernie supporters. Your candidate is going to have negative threads posted about him. Fucking deal with it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: LOL, the jury system isn't for when someone disagrees with you. Try reading DU's TOS and jury instructions.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Sid

[Bonobo]

130. My daughter, an actual strong Feminist, would laugh out loud at this pathetic post.

There is no other way to describe this. Pathetic.

Oh, I just thought of two more: Sad and undermining.

[Armstead]

133. Fearsome Female Warrior or Fragile Flower? Please tell me what to believe

I can't figure out what is the acceptable criteria about Clinton's ability to fight and stand her ground?

[Vattel]

134. lol

[sadoldgirl]

135. If she is such a shrinking violet, she should not

run for the POTUS office.

BTW the moderator wanted a yes or no answer as well,

but she is very good at weaseling and waffling.

I remember a time when she was dead against raising
the cap, because it might raise taxes.

[DefenseLawyer]

136. My favorite of Aesop's Fables was always "The boy who cried sexism". n/t

[whatchamacallit]

138. Yeah this is batshit

Good luck.