Evidence that the Pope/Sanders meeting, and leak, was organized by Bishop Sorondo

[Barack_America]

Subtitle: Please stop blaming the Sanders campaign.

1. Sorondo originally extended the invitation to Sanders.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-vatican-idUSKCN0X5257

2. Sorondo suggests Sanders invitation was cleared by the Pope.

Asked in an interview whether Francis had been aware of the invitation to Sanders ahead of time, Sánchez Sorondo replied playfully: "He is not an absent-minded pope. He knows everything".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/14/no-plans-for-pope-francis-to-meet-with-sanders-vatican-says/

3. Despite reports to the contrary, Sorondo strongly suggests a meeting with the Pope is still possible.

"But that was not the final word for Monsignor Sánchez Sorondo, who has a reputation among some in the Vatican for attracting attention to his conferences with star-studded names. (Last year the academy screened a movie directed by Angelina Jolie, who did receive an audience with the pope.) He dismissed the Vatican statement on a potential papal audience as “all the Roman gossip” and suggested Mr. Sanders could bump into the pope at the Vatican dormitory where he keeps his apartments."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/16/us/politics/bernie-sanders-vatican.html?_r=0

4. The very first report (that I can find) is a tweet by an American journalist who, coincidentally, just co-authored an article with...you guessed it, Bishop Sorondo.
(Note how the article was cleverly retweeted just prior to the meeting announcement).

6h6 hours ago
Michael Shank ‏@Michael_Shank
BREAKING: @pontifex meets w/ @sensanders in Vatican City. Talks #climatechange, economic justice. @CasinaPioIV

7h7 hours ago
Michael Shank ‏@Michael_Shank
After all the #BernieAtTheVatican buzz from yesterday, the work continues @CasinaPioIV http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/ending-the-exploitation-o_b_9681658.html … #endslavery #climatechange

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michael_Shank

5. This tweet is immediately retweeted by an established "vaticanista" in the tweet many of us have seen.

iacopo scaramuzzi
5h5 hours ago
iacopo scaramuzzi ‏@iscaramuzzi
con @SenSanders @pontifex ha parlato di politica estera e questioni climatiche, cinque minuti prima di partire per lesbo

My overall take:

This has all been a fascinating crash course in Vatican politics. The Pope (and Vatican) is walking a tightrope between publicly supporting Sanders's economic policies while not wanting to be seen supporting his social policies.

That "team Sorondo" won out and a meeting between the Pope and Sanders was managed suggests just how much the Pope agrees with Sanders's economic policies.

ETA: An assist to Jeffrey Sachs is clearly in order. Not only was he the original contact between Sorondo and Sanders, but Michael Shank handles communications for him.

http://www.michaelshank.tv/about-michael/

Further edit
Both Sorondo and Sachs were in attendance at the meeting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-pope-francis_us_5712553be4b0060ccda370ac

Sorry folks, no selfies.

[beam me up scottie]

1. They're making it up as they go along.

I really don't care that much, I'm enjoying watching them eat crow.

[Barack_America]

3. He was told to bring his entire family.

This immediately told me that a meeting of some sort was going to happen. I think Sorondo was lobbying for the full deal, and that this was the compromise.

But it is obvious to me that the Pope clearly supports Sanders on many issues.

[yourpaljoey]

4. Time to start buying Crow: get in on the ground floor

Steam shovels full, dump trucks full... there will be lots of crow-eatin' - demand will be incredible!!!

[beam me up scottie]

5. They are in full denial mode at this point.

There's even a thread that says since there were no pictures it didn't happen.

Derp. No pictures allowed in the private residence.

[yourpaljoey]

8. This is why we must invest NOW and avoid the rush!!!

CROW - strong buy!

[beam me up scottie]

12. I heard it's better warm, they really should start choking it down.

It's not going to get any tastier the longer they wait.

NOM NOM NOM

[yourpaljoey]

15. And they already have soo much on their plates...

...served with gagh, bok-rat liver, and a flagon of raktajino:
"'Captain Declan Keogh of the USS Odyssey, in response to Commander Benjamin Sisko's request for raktajino, opined that it tasted "like drinking an oil slick." His first officer, Commander Joseph Shabalala added, "only without the tangy aftertaste," causing Sisko to burst out laughing. (DS9 - The Brave and the Bold, Book One novella: The Second Artifact)'"

[beam me up scottie]

18. AWESOME!

Loves me some DS9, is it just me or do HC supporters remind you of Ferengi?

[yourpaljoey]

22. Truly. As well, they remind me of the old cotter and his wife from this:

"It is said that in Ulthar, which lies beyond the river Skai, no man may kill a cat; and this I can verily believe as I gaze upon him who sitteth purring before the fire. For the cat is cryptic, and close to strange things which men cannot see. He is the soul of antique Aegyptus, and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir. He is the kin of the jungle’s lords, and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa. The Sphinx is his cousin, and he speaks her language; but he is more ancient than the Sphinx, and remembers that which she hath forgotten."

[QC]

51. This makes just about anything tasty!

(Better get the gallon jug over there on the right.)

[KittyWampus]

17. Sanders lied so many times now about this, there's no reason to believe it.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Oh someone's credibility is shot here but it isn't Bernie's!

[Barack_America]

20. Please provide evidence of a Sanders "lie".

He has told the truth at every turn. Any confusion was all Vatican political scramble.

[BillZBubb]

26. You are such a fanatic. Even facts have no meaning to you. That is sad. IGNORE!

[dchill]

52. That's ESPECIALLY facts.

They're all about BrockFacts.

[passiveporcupine]

33. It turns out Sander's never lied,

And he probably was told by Sorondo that he would probably get to meet the Pope. Now that he has, it's just silly to keep this butthurt going.

BTW, the Pope does not interject himself into political races, but if he WAS going to endorse anyone in the campaign, is there any question about who he would endorse?

The answer is obvious and that fact alone is causing you more butthurt than this whole issue.

Those of us who waited for the actual event before issuing declarations, most of which were petty, mean-spirited, and childish, are not surprised by the outcome. Those who jumped to conclusions and labeled Bernie a liar are now just going to keep that bag over their heads, or accept the truth. He didn't lie.

Deal with it.

[brush]

45. Don't get all the hoopla, it was an accidental meeting and a handshake.

Some "audience" with the Pope.

[thesquanderer]

58. No one said it was going to be an "audience."

He was hoping to meet the Pope, and he did. (And exactly how "accidental" it was is disputed as well.)

[PufPuf23]

9. Nice likely clarification.

I had considered that the media fed by Clinton campaign had made any direct contact with Pope an impossibility.

The Clinton campaign would have been more productive and classy to have acknowledged the invite of Sanders to the Vatican as something positive for the values of the nation and Democratic Party.

Pathetic and sad politicking.

[Barack_America]

23. I truly don't think they're capable of that.

Sadly.

But, you know what, having so many high profile people highlighting inequality gives me hope!

[PufPuf23]

24. Agree! eom

[yourpaljoey]

49. PufPuf23 is just about the coolest possible name

Can you tell us the origin?

[PufPuf23]

59. about screen name

?zz=1

Pufpuf is the name of the Pacific Giant Salamander in the Karuk language. It is also the name of one of the immortals in Karuk stories of creation (that is salamander-like). In Karuk the pufpuf is good luck.

23 is a nice number.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_(number)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_enigma

[yourpaljoey]

60. I had a cat named Puffafluffagus

My brother called him PufPuf.
Agreed, 23 is a good number.

Thank you for the cool story

[PufPuf23]

61. Puffafluffagus is way way cool.

Why Puffafluffagus?

I was told once that pufpuf is slang for fart in Dutch.

[yourpaljoey]

62. He had wonderful soft fluffy fur

His original name was Puff... when I got him he needed a royal name

[bvar22]

39. Crow al la Poo

[yourpaljoey]

50. I am sourcing that menu now for there shall be much serving of it!

Sounds French

[Nyan]

2. Thanks for this.

Fascinating. Very well done!

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

6. Hillary Supporters are choking hard on that Birdie Sanders they've been having to eat...

[geek tragedy]

7. Shanks works for Sachs, no? His role is curiously absent

from this narrative.

[Barack_America]

10. I did not realize it. It makes sense....

...considering Sachs was originally tasked (presumably by Sorondo) to reach out to Sanders about attending the conference.

[Barack_America]

13. I updated the post to give Sachs an "assist"...

...on the "score".

[geek tragedy]

14. .

[Barack_America]

25. Both Sorondo and Sachs were present for the greeting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-pope-francis_us_5712553be4b0060ccda370ac

So, yep, I'm pretty sure we've identified the involved parties here.

I'm beginning to think that Vatican politics are even more fascinating than our own! They seem to be everything I'd imagined they be!

[MBS]

54. Sachs - himself a Sanders advisor -was without doubt a key engineer of this maneuver. n/t

[apcalc]

11. Honestly

Few people care about this.

[Barack_America]

16. Thanks enough for caring to kick the thread!

[Bodhi BloodWave]

21. if we were to look at DU, it seems to me like a lot of hillary supporters did nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. Except passionate Clinton supporters, apparently. n/t

[Barack_America]

34. So many threads.

I can't even get them to bite at a new thread I posted showing Clinton's support among women has collapsed.

They simply can't let go of this Pope thing.

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. I understand. I can't get them to bite at a thread about the GOP possession of Goldman speeches.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511752398

It's gonna take them a long time to let go of this.

[bvar22]

41. I disagree.

Millions of Catholics Americans care,
and Millions and Millions around the World care.
That YOU don't care says a lot about your self absorbtion.

[brush]

27. Whether he met the Pope or not, New York primary is closed and independents won't skew it to Sanders

New Yorkers are pretty savvy and most won't fall for the Pope pandering which turned out to be nothing but a handshake in passing.

Remember, Clinton is a twice-elected former US Senator from New York who bought home millions of dollars to New York after the 9/11 attacks.

New York dems remember that. And she lives in New York.

She'll win going away.

[bvar22]

43. How many Catholics live in New York?

Where the Religions Are:
Percent of Total Adherents
Brooklyn Manhattan Queens Staten Island Bronx
Catholics 8.8% 52.5% 60.0% 79.6% 77.5%

Evangelical Protestant 5.5% 3.0% 3.9% 2.8% 4.2%

Mainline Protestant 6.6% 9.3% 5.7% 4.3% 4.7%

Jewish 24.4% 9.2% 22.2% 10.1% 11.2%

Muslim 3.7% 3.4% 4.9% 2.4% 1.6%

Eastern Orthodox 0.7% 1.8% 2.7% 0.6% 0.5%

Other Religions 0.2% 0.7% 0.7% 0.3% 0.3%

http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/demographics/3881-a-religious-city

(The chart at the link is much easier to read)

Looks like LOTS of Catholics in New York. They care.
While lapsed Catholics like myself had no love for the previous Pope with ties to the NAZIS,
most of us have a great deal of respect for this new Pope, Pope Francis, who lives up to his namesake.

I am delighted by Bernie's invite to the Vatican, his invitation to speak at the conference,
and his meeting with the Pope.

[brush]

44. That's nice. Won't make a difference though.

Most people who site what faith they are hardly ever set foot in a church.

And Bernie is not Catholic.

New York's primary is closed, no independents skewing it towards Sanders. Just dems voting. Clinton has it in the bag.

[Trenzalore]

28. I will concede he was given an accidental meeting

I also think the Sanders political team depiction of the hand shake pissed the Vatican off enough for the Pope to give a clarification on an airplane.

[Barack_America]

35. "Given", "accidental".

I don't follow.

Did you mean to say "informal"?

How can something intentional (given) be an accident?

[Trenzalore]

36. It's a political term "accidental"

A political figure who won't sit down and meet with someone formally for some reason, happens to be somewhere the political figure is walking through so that they can briefly meet. The person who wants the meeting can honestly say they met while the political figure can say it wasn't intentional.

I believe the Vatican granted this circumstance for Bernie however when Bernie's campaign characterized it as a private audience the Pope himself felt it was important to dial it back.

Essentially the Vatican gave Bernie the opportunity to say he met the Pope when he returned stateside however when Bernie's political arm made it seem more than what it was they got slapped down.

[bvar22]

63. The meeting was PLANNED...just not publicized for political reasons.

ROME — U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders says he met privately with Pope Francis during his overnight trip here, his spokesman said.

The meeting took place at the papal residence early Saturday, according Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs.

A Vatican source said the meeting was not a chance encounter and had been planned.

The Sanders campaign had been vague about the senator's itinerary here following his address Friday to a Vatican conference. Francis left Rome later Saturday for Greece, where he is visiting migrants stuck on the island of Lesbos. The reticence about a Sanders meeting may be an attempt to avoid the perception that Francis is endorsing Sanders or otherwise involving himself in American politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/16/italian-media-sanders-met-privately-with-pope-francis/

What about that statement do you NOT understand?
I can make the words smaller if that will help you.

There are numerous (that means "many&quot other sources this morning from legitimate outlets.

[Trenzalore]

64. Given the Pope's statements

My post stands.

[bvar22]

65. Then supply a link to "The Pope's Statements" you are claiming.

I really don't believe you are close enough to the Pope to be referring to his words you heard in a casual telephone conversation.

I provided quotes from a legitimate source to back up MY claim.
There is more corroboration (the means total agreement) from almost ALL the Media today.
You should be able to provide a quote to back up your claims.
Put Up....or Shut Up.

You can "STAND" on False Statements (that means "LIES&quot all you want.
That says more about YOU than it does about anyone else here.


You will know them by their WORKS.

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. Now who's the diplomat, Hillary? n/t

[awake]

31. The Hillbots are stuck between a Rock and a Hard place

There was no photo, so it was not done for PR but some want "proof" of the meeting now they would like to say with out a photo how do we know it happened but that would mean questioning the Pope's word, good luck with that. It would have been best if Hillbots had just stayed quite about this whole trip but no they could not stop putting their foot in it.

[Barack_America]

32. The Vatican has retweeted several confirmations of the meeting...

...of which both Bishop Sorondo and Jeffrey Sachs also attended.

Even if there was a photo, they would insist it was photoshopped.

They are truly outdoing themselves on this one.

Me, I think it's mostly a fascinating glimpse into how the Vatican works, and how they try to promote their influence in a much more sophisticated way than our political process.

[passiveporcupine]

37. Even if there was a photo, they would insist it was photoshopped.

Either that, or a deliberate attempt on Bernie's part to use it as a photo op to capture catholic votes.

It doesn't matter what he does with the Hill camp, it's always wrong.

And I can understand their need to do that. They know they have a weak candidate, in terms of things that can be used against her, and because they can't refute all her negatives, they have to balance the scales; even if they have to fabricate negatives for Bernie to do so.

[Trenzalore]

38. Bernie has politicized the trip the entire time

and been rather ham fisted at his attempts from day one. Shows his lack of diplomatic experience.

[MBS]

55. + 100. n/t

[jillan]

42. " anyone who viewed the "polite" chat as meddling in politics should "look for a psychiatrist." "

'nuff said

[mainer]

46. Excellent analysis

Agree with every point.

[Barack_America]

47. Thanks!

I've been following this all week.

I think I may officially be more interested in Vatican politics than our own.

[AgingAmerican]

48. Evidence that the Pope/Hillary supporters freakout was organized by David Brock

[RazBerryBeret]

53. Dear God

give it up. get over it. let it go. it happened. it's done.

please, we need 100 more threads on this same issue.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

56. lol

[Barack_America]

57. I hope you recognize that I am a Sanders supporter...

...and have provided clear evidence here that Sanders's invitation and meeting with the Pope were orchestrated by the Vatican, rather than the Sanders campaign.

There was no "ambush" of the Pope; the meeting was clearly orchestrated by the Pope's close aide, Bishop Sorondo.