This is NOT first time Sanders camp feinged or faked some type of endorsement or proxy credibility

[uponit7771]

I'm disappointed in Sanders thinking on the endorsements and this move with Pope Francis

I think Francis is a stand up guy to speak the truth quickly, I would want my name not to be associated with influencing a campaign either


Right now Sanders is losing something more important than the primaries, I don't think his staff is doing him justice


your take?


tia

EDIT: Pope Francis: "..I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more..." direct quote

[kstewart33]

1. If the pope quote about a handshake and nothing more....

Bern has some serious thinking to do about the quality of advice he's getting from his staff.

Not good.

[uponit7771]

7. +1, he spent resources to go over there and place Francis in a bad position... 100% selfish IMHO

... whomever green lit that move should lose some credibility

[CorkySt.Clair]

17. It was a complete debacle

[liberal from boston]

110. Go Bernie

It is quite revealing how the lies keep coming from Hillary supporters: Bernie begged for an invitation; fact is the Papal Office invited him in March. The Monsignor from the Papal Office (who is a close aide to Pope Francis) also stated the Vatican is aware of Senator Sanders economic policies. IMO, the anger coming from Clinton supporters is the fact that Senator Sanders message is resonating with Americans & internationally. Sad that Hillary supporters do not see the integrity, character of Bernie. Pope Francis, millions of others have responded to his message to those who have no voice. Pope Francis statement greeting Senator Sanders: " I see in Senator Bernard Sanders a man of great integrity and moral conviction, who understands these principles and genuinely wants what's best for all people".

[uponit7771]

111. Have you read Francis's statements on the encounter?! There was no "meeting" as Sanders claimed

... or his campaign claimed and this is not the first time Sanders camp has misrepresented proxy cred.

[MaeScott]

208. Lol. The HRC crew is jealous. Green with envy. nt

[Thinkingabout]

226. Far from jealous, perhaps this was not the shining moment Sanders envisioned.

Hillary would not have gone, it was more important to sit down and listen to voters.

[uponit7771]

231. Pope Francis: "..I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more..."

[MBS]

230. +1

They've lost a lot of credibility with me.

[roguevalley]

118. you guys need to go for a walk

[mmonk]

2. So he should have declined the invitation to attend?

[Lucinda]

3. No. But he shouldn't have lied about it. n/t

[uponit7771]

10. Exactly!! There's no need to do what he did ... it would NOT have bought him much and right now

.... he's losing something more important than this primamry

[Voice for Peace]

166. But but but i thought you are a devout lover of liars!

[liberal from boston]

125. Go Bernie

What Lie? MSNBC reported that Pope Francis was staying in the same hotel as Bernie. Senator Sanders mentions Pope Francis in his speeches because they agree on Climate Change, economy, peace, etc. Pope Francis statement greeting Senator Sanders: " I see in Senator Bernard Sanders a man of great integrity and moral conviction, who understands these principles and genuinely wants what's best for all people".

[Lucinda]

129. This one:

[lunamagica]

134. Will you quit spreading that lie? The Pope never said this. It has been debunked

look it up on snoopes

[LiberalFighter]

30. The Vatican or their people did not make the first contact.

Sanders requested an invite.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

80. Chancellor Sorondo disagrees with ya nt

[QC]

4. This thread needs a soundtrack.

[Buzz Clik]

88. Ha ha. Did you play this soundtrack when the Berners were gloating about the "personal meeting"? No

Yeah, we get it.

"Truth to Power", as long as the truth is the truth we like ... or maybe a lie.

[Voice for Peace]

167. But you all are normally FOND of liars! Whassup?

[Buzz Clik]

169. Clearly not. But I am surprised ...

...at your willingness to accept sequences on dishonesty from the Sanders campaign.

[Voice for Peace]

179. I haven't SEEN any dishonesty from him or his campaign

but you all apparently do. I just would imagine you'd find it a plus, not complain about it.

[Bjorn Against]

5. So when exactly did anyone claim the Pope endorsed Bernie?

Bernie was not seeking an endorsement from the Pope and he never claimed he got one. Bernie knows that the Pope does not make political endorsements but he also knows that it is important to reach out to influential world leaders.

[uponit7771]

11. There's an or in the OP... good try though

[Bjorn Against]

19. So in other words nobody said there was an endorsement and your OP is disingenuous

[uponit7771]

26. In other words your attempt at a strawman doesn't work on focused people, here he sought credibility

... by proxy of a meeting with the Pope and placed the pope in a position to counter Sanders claim of a "meeting"

That's straight up selfish

[Bjorn Against]

34. Your OP strongly suggested Bernie faked an endorsement

Bernie was not seeking an endorsement nor did he claim otherwise.

Bernie did not put the Pope into any position, the Vatican invited Bernie and the Pope allowed a meet and greet with him. If the Pope did not want to meet Sanders he could have got security to remove Bernie from the area before he walked through, the fact that security allowed him to be there to meet the Pope proves that the Hillary supporters on this site who claim it was an ambush are completely wrong.

[uponit7771]

40. Another strawman... OR is in the OP... its a word and I meant to use it to describe Sanders selfish

... move with the pope forcing a person who wanted nothing to do with the US primary to issue a statement.

Sanders is... wow

[Bjorn Against]

44. That is a straight up lie, Sanders did not force the Pope to do anything

If the Pope did not want Bernie to greet him he could have easily had him removed by security before the Pope even walked through the area.

[uponit7771]

50. Sanders misrepresent the encounter between him and the pope, that's a fact not in dispute and

.. Francis just wouldn't have came out with a statement on the matter if Sanders didn't come out first with his.

So yeah

forced..

totally selfish move

[Bjorn Against]

56. Really? Can you provide a link to this "fact not in dispute"?

[uponit7771]

65. Francis own words? tia

[Bjorn Against]

73. Please provide a link to where Francis said Bernie misrepresented their encounter

I read the Pope's words and I did not see him suggest that Bernie misrepresented their meeting, what I did see is that the Pope said Bernie greeted him with kindness. You made the claim that Bernie misrepresented the meeting and this is a "fact not in dispute" but you have not been able to link to anything that Bernie misrepresented.

[uponit7771]

74. Strawman, I never said he did

[Bjorn Against]

82. Here is what you said...

Sanders misrepresent the encounter between him and the pope, that's a fact not in dispute"

I asked you for a link to back up that supposed "fact not in dispute" and you cited the Pope's words. The problem is the Pope never said anything to suggest what you claim is a "fact not in dispute".

[uponit7771]

92. I never said the Pope said Sanders misrepresented the meeting like you claimed

[Bjorn Against]

94. Then why did you cite "the Pope's words" when I asked you for a link

I specifically asked for a link to where Sanders misrepresented the meeting but instead of providing me a link you cited "the Pope's words". If the Pope never said that Sanders misrepresented their meeting then why would you cite his words when I asked for a link to back up that claim?

[uponit7771]

95. Cause the popes words supercede any Sanders camp excuses for Sanders selfish move

[Bjorn Against]

99. The Pope said that Bernie acted in kindness

The Pope specifically said Sanders greeted him with kindness, how is that selfish and why would anyone need to make excuses for it? If the Pope's words supersede Sanders supporters then they supersede yours as well. The Pope used the word "kindness" to describe Bernie's behavior, that is a very different word than the word "selfishness" that you use. If you want me to take the Pope's word I will do that, but the Pope's position is very different than yours.

[uponit7771]

100. yes, there was no 'meeting' as Sanders claimed... the encounter was a greeting as tje pope was

... walking out to a flight

[Bjorn Against]

102. It was a meet and greet which is an informal type of meeting

Bernie never claimed it was anything more than that.

[uponit7771]

199. Francis: "I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more" Francis over Sachs and Sanders

[passiveporcupine]

192. It was a prearranged meet and greet.

Not a meeting behind closed doors, but Bernie was there to meet him at the time prearranged between the Pope and him (most likely through Sachs).

[uponit7771]

193. I'll take Francis's word over Sanders and Sachs

[passiveporcupine]

197. There is no contradiction if you listen to his words carefully

The Pope was not saying he never said a word to Sanders in their greeting. He was saying they never had a "political" discussion. There was nothing that could be construed as politics or endorsements in the meet and greet. And I suspect he answered the way he did, because the reporters had just asked him if he was endorsing Sanders or something like that. He answered in a way to establish that nothing like that happened. Otherwise there was no reason for him to even phrase his statement to them the way he did. He was trying to stop them from going there.

[uponit7771]

198. No... no... stop this... there is a strong contradiction

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/bernie-sanders-says-he-met-with-the-pope#.sg0dq0Ydp

“When I came down, I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more. This is called good manners and it is not getting involved in politics,” he said. “If anyone thinks that greeting someone is getting involved in politics, I recommend that he look for a psychiatrist.”

That's from the popes airplane vid

[passiveporcupine]

200. Yes, I know what he said.

You did not real what I said with an open mind. You just read the words and didn't even hear me.

this is useless.

No one can stop you all from hating Bernie, but what a waste of energy.

[uponit7771]

201. I did read what you posted and in the post you still speculated, Francis's words were clearn...

... "and nothing more"

I'm choosing to believe Francis's exact words than inject something else into them... it doesn't matter if it was small talk or a mere handshake the point is Sanders and Sachs misrepresented the encounter and its not the first time these type of proxy credibility tactics have been employed by Sanders camp.

The mailers with the union and other logos on them that never endorsed Sanders is a big tell tale

[passiveporcupine]

202. What people say is often misinterpreted, because the nuance is lost

Why did he say and nothing more? What compelled him to even say that? what question was he asked just prior to his answer?

He had no reason to say that unless he was trying to stop a thought that the reporters had pursued, like was this about politics and endorsements?

If he wasn't responding to a question that was not given us in context, he never would have said it like that.

You are trying to take his answer literally instead of understanding the nuance of what he meant and why he said it.

Don't be so literal. You have to take what he said in context with everything he said, not just those three words. He was trying to set the reporters straight. What reason would Sachs have to lie, and the Pope would get all over him if he did.

[uponit7771]

203. Nuance has been lost with Sander camp a couple of times in the past with mailers that had

... logos of left groups that never endorsed him.

If Sanders camp didn't have a track record of misrepresenting proxy cred then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, as of now their past actions don't lend an objective person to give them the benefit of the doubt because of their own actions misrepresenting endorsements to primary voters.

I've said in my response to you that it doesn't matter that it was a meet and greet a hand shake or even a 5 minute meeting the pope explains the encounter much different than Sanders and Sachs.

That's a fact that no one is disputing

[passiveporcupine]

206. Some people are disputing that

And not everyone agrees with you that his campaign (not Sanders personally) tried to imply that he had been endorsed when he hadn't been. It was kinda like this fiasco of all the accusations you've thrown at Bernie over this trip. His campaign made a mistake in including logos on some of their literature without prior permission, but they were not claiming endorsements, just support. If they meant endorse they would have said endorse. And Bernie did not do it. Get over it.

Nothing about this Rome trip has been disingenuous either. Bernie never lied about a thing, yet you all continued to say that he did, as one item after another you were proven wrong...and now even with proof you refuse to let go of your smears because you will never admit you were wrong.

When I make a mistake here, I admit it. When I see something stupid or untrue being said about Clinton, I stand up for her, even though I don't like her, because to me lying about someone is wrong. I can't understand how people can be so filled with hate that they just ignore the truth and keep perpetuating lies in the face of proof to the contrary.

It's like talking to a fucking brick wall here.

And now I'm going to bed before my feet swell up any more than they already have for staying up too late...I should have been in bed hours ago, but I was so pissed at the absolute intransigence of some of you that I just couldn't let it go. I'm sorry I even let you drag me into this crap.

That's all this attack on Bernie and his trip to Rome is. Pure unadulterated crap.

Goodnight!

[uponit7771]

207. His campaign made a mistake in including logos on some of their literature without prior permission

Good, on those grounds we agree...

We also agree that this "mistake" happened more than once and some say more than twice including Nevada

Its rational for a discerning person NOT to take Sanders word for what happened and take Francis's word for what happened.

Have a good nights sleep

[passiveporcupine]

237. I've been focusing on the wrong part of the Pope's sentence

on the plane, the Pope said:

When I came down, I greeted him, I shook his hand, and nothing more.

Not I met him and shook his hand, but I greeted him. That means he spoke to him (and presumably to Jane and the other couple as well). Now you can greet someone by just saying hi...or you can greet him with some welcoming language. He's the pope...Bernie traveled half way across the globe to come to his conference...do you really think he said "nothing"...which means he lied when he said "I greeted him"?

How did he "greet" him? What word, or words did he use to greet him? He did not say how he specifically greeted him. So how can you presume that Sachs is lying?

I still stand by "and nothing more" being a response to a question from a reporter involving politics. But for how he greeted Bernie (for what he actually said), I go with Sachs...

Pope Francis “thanked the senator formally for coming to the Vatican and for participating in the meeting at the Academy,” Sachs recounted, adding that the Pope explained that an earlier start than expected this morning meant he couldn’t greet the conference participants last night as has had been originally planned. “He thanked the senator for understanding (that the prior day's meeting had to be cancelled) and appreciated that he had come and participated,” Sachs said. “The senator wished him well on today's journey and the Pope wished Senator Sanders and his wife very well and then the meeting concluded and the Pope left for Greece.”

This is a greeting from a compassionate and thoughtful man.

If you cannot see what you are doing here and why it's so damned frustrating to reasonable people who are not trying to make everything Bernie does a lie, then there is nothing more I can say to you or anyone.

And one more thing. Everyone went Ballistic over the clip of The View asking Bernie if he was meeting with the Pope, and he said YUP. And that short clip "Are you meeting with the Pope?, "YUP" was played over ad nauseam here, to show how he "lied". He did meet with the Pope, and more than likely expected to, because he was probably told by Sachs that the Pope would be coming to the conference on Friday, as originally planned...but he changed his plans and met with Bernie on Sat morning instead.

Ok, I'm done with this conversation...if you and your camp don't see your mistake and apologize for the nasty things you've said about Bernie, it's on you. I don't expect any apologies, or even admissions of error.

[gabeana]

98. Just give up

your coming like a buffoon, you have have no credibility

[HassleCat]

89. You are in the clear.

It depends on what the definition of "is" is.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

141. I see lots of claims, but no evidence of any wrongdoing by Bernie. n/t

[DrDan]

221. they (his campaign) wants to leave the impression that there is an endorsement

https://www.facebook.com/berniesanders/photos/a.324119347643076.89553.124955570892789/1029290747125929/?type=3&theater

look at the clever placement of Bernie-2016 and parallel placement of Pope Francis and bernie.com.

Nothing but dirty politics.

[frylock]

6. My take?

Team Clinton is shitting their collective pants over Bernie's momentum.

[uponit7771]

13. If he halved her vote count then that would be true and "momentum" doesn't vote

[CentralCoaster]

8. LOL

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. My take? I can't for the life of me understand why NO ONE in this forum will talk about

ACTUAL ISSUES.

[uponit7771]

14. This is an issue!! MANY people have limented that Sanders is just like any other politician just an

... other ways on other issues.

This establishes that there's no need to take a chance on someone who MIGHT be slightly better

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. No... this is silly as hell.

That's it. I don't care who you support, but this has gone to whole new levels of crazy anger.

[uponit7771]

18. Outright lying and using another person to do so isn't silly... goes direct towards his character..

.... this isn't the first time him or his camp has done something like this

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. It is my sincere wish that we move on to actual issues that affect our country.

Seriously, I am gobsmacked by the sheer number of silly posts on this topic.

[uponit7771]

23. Sanders has constantly called Hillary bribed and bought of with "artful" words and has centered his

... campaign on being straight up.

This is an issue, he's losing more than just the primary

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. Sorry. Good luck with this. But you've lost me

with the lack of substance.

[Armstead]

46. If these links don;'t at least raise questions....Well then I guess you;re happy with...

monopolistic global corporations setting the agenda for everything.


http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/05/monsanto200805

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/judy-frankel/hillary-vs-bernie-on-fran_b_7638846.html

[uponit7771]

47. Of course they raise questions but ones important to the way she'll govern?! no... not at all

[Armstead]

12. I think you are obsessed with trivia more than actual issues that will shape the future

I do not know whether that is a personality trait, or if you are simply participating in the cynical larger politically opportunistic attempt to make mountains out of molehills to distract attention from the actual important issues that rae at the base of this election.

You asked. That's my own honest take.

[uponit7771]

15. Sanders patter of lying about endorsements or crediibilty by proxy is not trivia. If Clinton coughed

... wrong on Thrusday there would be 23432 threads about it here and

[Armstead]

32. These "patterns" are non existant

If you are referring to Nevada, that was a dumb mistake by campaign staffers.

I disagree about his motivations for going to Rome...But if you choose to believe that Sanders visited the Vatican was just a campaign stunt....Well WTF? All campaigns engage in political stunts every day.

EVEN IF your erroneous claim were correct....That is a tiny gnat compared to the issues he is addressing regarding the future of America and the planet.

Hey, you disagree with him? Fine. Don't like him? Fine.

But blowing up specks of personalized dust into political obsessions is exactly what is wrong with politics.It;s why so many peopel have tuned out from politics, and turned the henhouse over to the foxes.

[uponit7771]

48. So Sanders camp did NOT lie about endorsements in the past? tia

[Armstead]

52. Fer God sake I am not going to get lost in this OCD nightmare

If you want to spend this nice spring day obsessing over some campaign staffers doing a few stupid things, and tyong it into some non-existent pattern, be my guest.

Life's too short....

[uponit7771]

54. Obfuscation, you said there was no pattern... there is

[Armstead]

72. Investigate away if you really think this matters in the scheme of things

Forget the large corporations that donate millions to candidates...and forget the fact that no legislation can get through Congress without being vetted and approved by lobbyists and Wall St. and Big Business...Forget all that.

This imagined "Endorsementgate" is ever so much more important than the cumulative effect of systemic corruption of out government.

[uponit7771]

91. Yes it does, Sanders camp has misrepresented proxy credibility multiple times and calling

... their encounter a "meeting" vs a greeting as Francis did continues to go against the

[3hummingbirds]

159. Vatican visit

For God's sake. He was invited to Vatican and Hillary was not.

[Cha]

21. Hope the last damn time.. but I doubt it.. they never learn.

[uponit7771]

41. +1

[Thinkingabout]

176. The Pope is a great person, he has not indicated any interest in our politics.

Smart man.

[Cha]

184. Why should he?.. good grief, he has more important things to do than be a part of BS' political

stunt.

[revbones]

22. I'm disappointed in the Hillary camp and followers...

[IamMab]

24. AARP, League of Conservation Voters, American Legions, NH newspapers, Sanders stole them all.

His campaign used their logos on mailers, or in the case of NH newspapers, implied their endorsement in a television ad ahead of the NH primary.

[uponit7771]

38. Yeap, my understanding its not just once or twice either. This is no doubt a pattern

[salinsky]

25. Waiting around in the lobby at 4 am ....

.... to buttonhole the Pope, before he could slip out of town does seem a little crass.

[uponit7771]

29. Then, misrepresenting the "meeting" forcing Francis to counter... 100% selfish move. Don't understan

.. the judgement here... really bad judgement

[2pooped2pop]

35. can you prove that or is slander your usual thing?

[uponit7771]

49. The pope left the lobby around 4am ish, that's where the 4am comes from

[passiveporcupine]

195. Actually they met at 6am in the foyer.

And it was a prearranged meeting to greet each other, thank each other and wish each other well.

Pope Francis “thanked the senator formally for coming to the Vatican and for participating in the meeting at the Academy,” Sachs recounted, adding that the Pope explained that an earlier start than expected this morning meant he couldn’t greet the conference participants last night as has had been originally planned. “He thanked the senator for understanding and appreciated that he had come and participated,” Sachs said. “The senator wished him well on today's journey and the Pope wished Senator Sanders and his wife very well and then the meeting concluded and the Pope left for Greece.”

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-meets-bernie-sanders-vatican-confirms/#ixzz4633ABBnr

So, apparently the Pope did plan on attending the conference on Friday for greetings or blessings or whatever, but had to change his plans because of his early trip in the morning. So instead he arranged a meeting with Sanders for sat morning to thank him for coming.

Nothing political was talked about and no endorsements were asked for or given.

[uponit7771]

196. All take Francis's word over Sachs and Sanders... link and quote

“When I came down, I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more. This is called good manners and it is not getting involved in politics,” he said. “If anyone thinks that greeting someone is getting involved in politics, I recommend that he look for a psychiatrist.”

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/bernie-sanders-says-he-met-with-the-pope#.sg0dq0Ydp

[99Forever]

28. Another Hillarian poutage thread from Camp Lying Liars.

Cry us a fucking river.

The Pope doesn't want Hillary around. Deal with it.

[PeoViejo]

31. Camp Doubledown.

[uponit7771]

36. I trusted Sanders at one time, I no longer do ... he's lied multiple times about endorsements

[99Forever]

64. Oh please.

You aren't fooling anyone.

Give it up.

I care fuckall who you "trust." Since it's clearly Clinton, then YOU aren't trustworthy either.

[2pooped2pop]

126. lol, but you trust the lying Hillary?

um, I guess a "your concern is noted" is due here.

[PeoViejo]

128. Crickets.....chirp..chirp.

I hope you have been saving your earnings, for it might be a long wait until your next Gig.

Someone stepped on their Dick....

[2pooped2pop]

33. bernie said there was no endorsement

Why does the Hill clan keep trying to put her behavior onto him? Are you that desperate?

[uponit7771]

37. Or credibility by proxy... strawman noted

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. There is no endorsement, and the credibility is real.

The Vatican invited Sanders to speak about inequality and meet the Pope. They did not invite Clinton.

I expect him to highlight this at every opportunity. I expect her supporters to lie about it.

[uponit7771]

43. I disagree, it's not credible to misrepresent something and involve other people in the

... misrepresenting to the point where they had to issue a strong countering statement.

That's bad character

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. No one is misrepresenting the Pope's views on inequality.

And it's you who is doing the misrepresenting re: an endorsement.

[uponit7771]

53. I'm speaking of the encounter and how Sanders described it with the pope

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. You mean when he said "not an endorsement"? That? n/t

[uponit7771]

66. No, the "meeting" part

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. So the Pope came home to find Sanders sitting on his couch, playing his X-box and drinking his beer?

The Pope doesn't meet people by accident.

[uponit7771]

71. I take Francis's word for the encounter not someone who camp has lied multiple times about

... proxy credibility

[Bjorn Against]

75. Fine take the Pope's word for it...

The Pope says Sanders greeted him with kindness...

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2016/04/16/pope-francis-calls-sanders-greeting-only-common-courtesy/

“This morning as I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” Francis said. “He knew I was coming out at that time, and he had the kindness to greet me.”

[uponit7771]

78. Yes, a greeting is NOT a "meeting" and "he knew I was coming out at the time" = Sanders was waiting

... and not something set up

[Bjorn Against]

86. Have you ever heard of a meet and greet?

They are generally not long and formal meetings, but they are meetings. Bernie never claimed to have a long one on one with the Pope but he did meet him.

[uponit7771]

101. This was no planned meet and greet either...the Pope said Sanders was waiting for him and knew what

... time he was leaving for his flight

[Bjorn Against]

106. The Pope's words make it very clear he appreciated Bernie's kindness....

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2016/04/16/pope-francis-calls-sanders-greeting-only-common-courtesy/

“This morning as I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” Francis said. “He knew I was coming out at that time, and he had the kindness to greet me.”

[uponit7771]

107. Red Herring, Sander was kind of course.. was he supposed to cuss the Pope out in his own house?

the OP is about Sanders campaign and Sanders own words on the greeting... not the server minute "meeting"

[Bjorn Against]

109. So what is so horrible about what Bernie said?

He made it clear that there was no endorsement despite what you misleadingly implied. And yes you did imply it, using the word "or" does not mean the implication is not there.

[lumberjack_jeff]

132. "He had the kindness to greet me" = "thanks for meeting with me at this time of my choosing"

Whose the diplomat now, Hillary?

[lumberjack_jeff]

131. A wave is a greeting... Depending on how many fingers I'm holding up.

A handshake and discussion is a meeting.

[uponit7771]

136. There was no "discussion", you guys are really pushing the reality thing no?

[catnhatnh]

130. I assure you

if you were seen shaking hands and exchanging greetings with someone and were asked, say by the FBI-"Did you ever meet so and so?" and told them "no", they would be most unhappy with that answer....

[Katashi_itto]

42. My take? Trashing.

[Vinca]

51. My take? You're seeing things that don't exist. Seek help.

[uponit7771]

58. I'm seeing the popes own words in black and white; no "meeting" with Sanders

[Vinca]

68. Never mind. I know it's a case of jealousy.

Hillary would have killed for that trip to the Vatican and everyone knows it. I bet she would have given the Pope a discount rate . . . maybe a hundred thousand off her usual fee. For charity's sake.

[uponit7771]

70. I'm not Catholic and don't value the organization enough to be "jealous" of anything ...

... but believe what you want.

Sanders used resources and misrepresented the encounter with the pope

[Vinca]

77. Why would he do that?

There is no motive campaign-wise. About half the talking heads say going was a big mistake because he lost time on the campaign trail and the other half say he's using it to promote his campaign. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He had a great opportunity, he went and I'm very happy for him and proud an American was invited. You should put your hatred aside and be proud of that, too.

[uponit7771]

81. Cause his camp has lied before when it comes to proxy credibility?! MULTIPLE times during this ...

... primary they've misrepresented who was endorsing them.

This is a pattern not just a single instance

[Vinca]

87. On the plus side, he's not being investigated by the FBI.

[uponit7771]

108. Neither is Hillary Clinton

[Vinca]

124. Okay.

You should read a newspaper every so often.

[840high]

181. haha lol - thanks I needed

a good laugh.

[polichick]

57. My take: your desperation is showing.

[uponit7771]

59. Desperate = calling a hand shake a "meeting"

[polichick]

62. Meeting, as in they met each other - get a clue.

[uponit7771]

67. I take Francis's word for the encounter not someone who camp has lied multiple times about

... proxy credibility

[northernsouthern]

60. Like this time they feigned interest in helping out interns?

Honestly, the more the HRC camp pulls these threads out, the more I want to post these. Is this wrong? It has as much to do with the election as this thread.

[uponit7771]

61. That's Bill Clinton not Bernie Sanders

[northernsouthern]

63. Whaaaaa?

My sources lied to me, I was told that was the 15 dollar an hour meeting.

[Armstead]

76. It sure is.....The guy who almost took down the government by lying about sex

[uponit7771]

104. Armstead...I think the US government is stronger than a couple of people doin the nasty

[redstateblues]

165. Hey Sean Hannity! Good to see you here on DU

[northernsouthern]

175. It is not Sean in the pictures

It turned out is was Bill, apparently Sean has been too busy posting on the Hillary Groups about Bernie's trip to Rome to take any new pictures.

[redstateblues]

177. Isn't that you posting Sean?

[northernsouthern]

180. Posting about Sean?

No I am responding, you are the one talking about Sean. Frankly you seem a bit obsessed. I don't even think you are on the right forum is you are a Sean fan, I think you want the Fox News forum. Why do you like Sean so much?

v

[eShirl]

79. My take: the horse you're beating is pinin' for the fjords. n/t

[deathrind]

83. This site has...

Gone off the deep end...

The Pope was right in his recommendation.

[JI7]

84. my take is people still making an issue out of this after jerkoffs

[Gothmog]

85. There is a pattern here

The pope is not endorsing Sanders. Neither did the other groups

[grasswire]

90. It's hard to see how you could make yourself look any more foolish.

But you have managed to do so today.

[uponit7771]

97. Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position

[Lil Missy]

93. I think he felt genuine honor to meet the pope, and

not likely any nefarious motives.

Just because Bernie Bros are so ridiculously suspicious of Hillary's every move, we don't have to act out in kind.

[uponit7771]

96. Sanders camp has misrepresented proxy cred multiple times during the primary...

... if Hillary had a habit of doing such with no change of mind Id have to acknowledge reality.

[BlindTiresias]

103. stupid OP

[uponit7771]

105. Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position

[azurnoir]

112. yes they are indeed - Bernie Sanders says private meeting with Pope Francis is not an endorsement

Source: Washington Post

ROME — U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders met privately with Pope Francis during his overnight trip here, his spokesman said.

"They discussed the issues that the senator raised — that the pope has raised so often — at the conference yesterday," Briggs said, adding that there was no discussion of U.S. politics or Sanders's candidacy.

"He said that there was radiance in his presence and that he was very honored and humbled to have the opportunity to meet with the pontiff."


Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/16/italian-media-sanders-met-privately-with-pope-francis/

[uponit7771]

116. There was no "meeting" there was a greeting and that was it. I take Francis's word of the ecounter

... over someones camp who has lied about proxy cred many times in this primary

[azurnoir]

119. you've been corrected-nicely

[azurnoir]

121. JPost-Pope meets with Bernie Sanders, thanks him for addressing Vatican on the 'moral economy'

VATICAN CITY - Pope Francis met US presidential candidate Bernie Sanders on Saturday morning before leaving for a visit to the Greek island of Lesbos, a participant at the meeting said.

Columbia University Professor Jeffrey Sachs told Reuters that the meeting took place in the Vatican guesthouse where the pope lives and where Sanders had spent the night after addressing a Vatican conference on social justice.

The Vatican had said before the conference that a meeting was not planned. Sachs said Sanders, who was accompanied by his wife, and the pope spoke for about five minutes. Sachs, his wife and a Vatican official were also in the room.

Sachs, who has advised the United Nations on climate change, said Sanders thanked the pope for his pronouncements on the need for morality in the global economy and statements in defense of the environment.

http://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/Pope-meets-with-Bernie-Sanders-thanks-him-for-addressing-Vatican-on-the-moral-economy-451397

[Admiral Loinpresser]

147. Bookmarking to laugh off meeting/greeting pope "controversy." ROFL. n/t

[uponit7771]

194. Pope Francis's words trumps Sachs and Sanders

[DisgustipatedinCA]

113. You belted that out as though it were true. It's not. REJECTED.

[uponit7771]

114. “This morning as I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” Francis said. “He knew I was coming out

[passiveporcupine]

115. My take?

You're having a bad day!

[uponit7771]

117. Having a bad day = behind 2 million votes

[passiveporcupine]

122. that doesn't bother me

but you sure seem to be bothered an awful lot by Bernie being invited to the conference, and by the POPE meeting (albeit unsheduled) and shaking hands with Bernie.

I think my bad day is looking brighter all the time. Yours, can't really get any worse or better. You're stuck with it.

[uponit7771]

149. Nah, more bothered that a guy who should've been kept out of the mix had to proffer a correcting

... statement to Sanders "meeting" claim.

To the Pope, however—well, even the word “meeting” seems to overstate how he saw their encounter. He made a point of clarifying that the handshake and pleasantries they exchanged should not be seen as a political endorsement

[passiveporcupine]

153. Exactly what Sanders said.

Never was about politics for him. They just share the same views on economics and ecology and this conference came up at an opportune time, and he was proud to be able to meet and shake the Pope's hand.

It tickles me to see you all going nuts over this.

[uponit7771]

157. Sanders said it was a "meeting" while the pope says not

To the Pope, however—well, even the word “meeting” seems to overstate how he saw their encounter. He made a point of clarifying that the handshake and pleasantries they exchanged should not be seen as a political endorsement.

[passiveporcupine]

162. But he never made a point of saying it wasn't a meeting

so your concern is noted, but I think you made that up.

And they really did have a meeting. A meeting of the minds.

[uponit7771]

163. True, the pope used the word greeting multiple times in his statement....so, Francis over Sanders

[passiveporcupine]

164. Yah Yah, my dad's bigger than your dad.

Do you even know how silly you sound?

[GeorgeGist]

120. My take ...

Word salad.

[GeorgeGist]

123. Here's some credible proxy for you

[Mike Nelson]

127. My take...

...don't think it was a "lie" - which is a word overused. Bernie is simply a fan of the Pope. Remember when you're 14 and really like Madonna or some other singer... You meet the singer and "elevate" the encounter in your mind. You talk about it because it seems to elevate you - it doesn't, but you really think it does. The whole Pope story is stupid... hope it ends soon!

[2pooped2pop]

133. get a grip man.

[uponit7771]

135. I'll take Francis's word over Sanders, that grip enough for yah? tia

[Admiral Loinpresser]

140. Please educate me.

When did Bernie say the pope endorsed him? Link please.

[uponit7771]

142. Strawman, never said he did...

[Admiral Loinpresser]

145. How about some evidence of anything? n/t

[uponit7771]

146. Here you go

http://qz.com/663579/the-pope-met-with-bernie-sanders-out-of-politeness-and-good-manners-he-says/

To the Pope, however—well, even the word “meeting” seems to overstate how he saw their encounter. He made a point of clarifying that the handshake and pleasantries they exchanged should not be seen as a political endorsement.

“This morning when I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” he told reporters in Italian aboard the papal airliner today, after his visit to the refugee-filled Greek island of Lesbos. “He knew I was leaving at that time and he had the courtesy to greet me. I greeted him, his wife, and another couple who were there and were sleeping in Santa Martha. This is called good manners and it is not getting involved in politics.”
Added the Pope, laughing, “If anyone thinks that greeting someone is getting involved in politics, I recommend that he look for a psychiatrist.”

[Admiral Loinpresser]

152. The meet/greet "controversy is a non-starter." This thread is silly. Over and out. n/t

[uponit7771]

204. "..I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more..." It doesn't matter the other nuances the

... fact is the pope described the encounter different from a politician

[2pooped2pop]

211. No its not. You are still obsessing. Breathe man! Let it go. They didn't want Hillary.

Live with that and relax.

[hobbit709]

137. "There's desperation in the air. It stains all your clothes and no detergent gets it out."

[jfern]

138. Bernie never claimed the pope endorsed him. End of story.

[uponit7771]

139. Failed Strawman 4, there's an "OR" in the OP title... or proxy credibility... either way, lying abou

... about endorsements 2 or 3 times and then this non "meeting" aka handshake as the pope was walking by on the way to his flight

[Aerows]

143. The Vatican lies!? They sent

communique's confirming that the meeting in the Pope's private residence was pre-planned. If it wasn't true, guess what your are doing? (Accuse the Pope of lying - I dare you).

He thanked Bernie Sanders for his attendance.(Again, Accuse the Pope of lying).

Bernie stated kind things about the Pope after his meeting with him. (Met him, tweeted about it).

You folks have lost your damn minds.

[uponit7771]

144. I'll take Francis's word over Sanders, Francis calls it a greeting Sanders called it a meeting and

... Sanders camp has been known to straight up misrepresent proxy credibility

[Aerows]

151. Pope Francis met with Bernie Sanders.

That is a fact.

Unless you are insinuating NOW that the Vatican is part of Bernie Sanders camp.

Wait ... That seems to be what you ARE insinuating. Bernie Sanders is a mouthpiece of the Vatican, a proxy of the Vatican.

Well, the Vatican has spoken, and Hillary wasn't there.

[uponit7771]

155. Francis doesn't think so (link and quote inside)

http://qz.com/663579/the-pope-met-with-bernie-sanders-out-of-politeness-and-good-manners-he-says/

To the Pope, however—well, even the word “meeting” seems to overstate how he saw their encounter. He made a point of clarifying that the handshake and pleasantries they exchanged should not be seen as a political endorsement.

[Aerows]

156. You aren't Catholic, are you? n/t

[uponit7771]

158. Why does that make a difference? The conversation is about Sanders statement and the popes

... counter to his statement about a "meeting"

[Aerows]

160. If I have to explain

the relationship between Catholicism, the Pope, and the Pope's role on earth

a rancorous reply is absolutely the wrong thing to do, will not advance any spiritual cause, least of all mine, nor yours.

Have a good day.

[ThePhilosopher04]

148. It's pretty obvious to any rational thinking person that the Pope supports Bernie.

I totally understand why he would stay above the political fray and not publicly endorse a candidate, but it's pretty clear Bernie has his support. I also get why Clinton and her supporters want to spin this as negatively as possible. I say keep it up, it makes you look really, really bad.

[uponit7771]

150. OMFG, is this real!?

[840high]

182. What is wrong with you? Why

are you using so much energy on this. Kinda creepy.

[ThePhilosopher04]

185. As real as real is. Peace be with you.

[Aerows]

154. The loss of their shit is epic.

Calling Bernie a "proxy of the Vatican" in one breath and berating the Pope in the other, then seeming to demand appreciation as a serious commentator.

I've never seen anything like it before.

[ThePhilosopher04]

187. They know deep down but simply can't come to terms with it. Really fascinating to watch.

[magical thyme]

161. Link please? Exactly where/when did Sanders camp claim an endorsement?

Or anything other than that he'd been invited to speak at the Vatican academy conference (he had), that he hoped to meet the Pope, that he did meet the Pope?

Not their fault if the MSM (and some DUers) went into meltdown mode and attach all kinds of stuff to it.

The fact is that he has expressed interest in attending the conference in prior years. This time he got invited. He doesn't schedule the conference and, contrary to some people's claims, he didn't invite himself.

He chose to go because he'd always wanted to and this was his chance.

He was going to be leaving the campaign trail to do so, which guaranteed it would be news.

[uponit7771]

170. Fifth Strawman fail, there's an "OR" in the op... good try though

[magical thyme]

173. Fine, Link where Sanders' campaign claimed credibility or endorsement?

Journalists writing about the events have stated it lends his campaign gravitas and credibility. That is their opinion.

I have not see a single quote out of the campaign making that claim.

[krawhitham]

168. Your concern is noted

[Cha]

171. Kick!

[Skwmom]

172. This is elementary school crap ( Clinton fake outrage, trying to make a mountain out of a molehill).

[Haveadream]

174. A senior vatican official took it very seriously

and accused Sanders of showing "monumental discourtesy" by lobbying for an invitation to a church sponsored conference on economic and environmental issues for political gain.

What lies at the heart of the controversy is not the parsing of the words "invitation and "meeting" but the maneuvers Sanders is employing on the eve of the primary in NY. Appearing on national television and stating he has been invited to meet with the Pope is seen by many as campaign tactic to help turn the enormous Catholic vote in NY in his favor. There is a reason candidates seek endorsements and having even the remotest semblance of one is better than nothing, especially when you are double digits behind and desperately need a way to convince people you are still viable.

Sanders spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign funds to travel for a ten minute speaking slot. He then waited in the lobby for the opportunity to press flesh while the Pope was on his way out to meet a flight. The cries of foul are challenging the pretense of the collegiality, common goals and planned meeting between Sanders and the Pope. Neither the vatican nor the Pope are willing to cooperate with that narrative and to that end, the Pope went on record to say in no way should their courtesy when crossing paths be construed as anything political. In terms of getting out the vote, the results on Tuesday will show whether it was money well spent.

?1460752503

[uponit7771]

189. +1, whomever green lit this move should be fired... we all know what Sanders was trying to do

... by saying he "meet" with the pope vs just greeted the guy with a handshake

[Bluenorthwest]

220. Boy are you incorrect. She's not a Vatican official at all, Lady Archer is a Professor at a secular

University who sits on the board of a Vatican Academy. She's also a well known conservative with a bit of bias in her mix, shall we say.
Margaret Archer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Archer

Accuracy is a large part of honesty....

[msanthrope]

229. My my. Petards and all...nt

[redstateblues]

178. Let's be real-This was a Hail Mary to try to win the NY Primary

Bernie's internals tell him how far he is behind- He don't give a crap that the Pope is against women's rights, LGBT rights. Bernie thinks his one size fits all will solve everything. Bernie is a politician. First and foremost

[Haveadream]

183. Yes- Political expedience

People would be less cynical if he didn't try to pretend the trip was anything other than finding a way to seem relatable and not get hurt too badly in the upcoming primaries. NY, RI, CT, NJ and PA all have a significant number of Democratic Catholics. It made sense for him to try to connect with them. The fact that the relationship is so forced makes that connection tenuous at best. We'll see if Catholics buy what he is selling. So far, older people haven't, women haven't, blacks haven't and the Jewish community hasn't. Hail Mary is right.

[uponit7771]

190. +1

[BillZBubb]

186. My take is that this is not your first time being dishonest.

You Hillary fanatics have no connection to the truth. You have totally mischaracterized what has happened through this entire Vatican trip.

I understand Hillary's big dollar campaign fundraising trip is embarrassing so you've got to find a way to deflect attention from that. It isn't working.

Bernie had a great trip and did meet the Pope. Eat your heart out conservaDem.

[uponit7771]

191. What in the OP is false? tia

[Bluenorthwest]

216. All of it. It's just words you typed, assumption and presumption and not a word of support for

your assertions because that support does not exist. You have been asked to prove your assertions and you can't. You would if you could but you can't so you don't and you won't.

I see your motive as being one of bias.

[Jamaal510]

188. I lost

a bit of the respect for him that I had before the start of the primaries. This issue is one of plenty that contributed to that.

[pat_k]

205. Oh, the noise! Oh, the Noise! Noise! Noise! Noise!

Arrrggghhh. To greet is to meet. You can meet and not greet. You can't greet in person if you don't meet. Can't call it a "meeting" though they met and spoke. What then? A gremeeting?

Arrghh, I can't take all this Noise! Noise! Noise! Noise!

How much I would LOVE a Suess book on the "road to the nomination."

[cloudythescribbler]

209. When will the Hillary folk finally let this whole Vatican thing go?

It's true there was a report from someone in the Vatican that the invitation was recent and at Bernie's behest, which turned out to be inaccurate and corrected by a higher up figure in the Church. So there was that granule

But everything else has been just pouting and supposition and accusation and innuendo and sour grapes with an attempted disguise of high-mindedness

Really now!

The resonance between the social (and ecological) message of Laudato Si and the central message of Bernie's campaign is plain, and has been rightly noted by Bernie, and he was invited to a Conference at the Vatican on the subject. I think he was wise to have gone, but why are Hillary supporters concerned -- what that he was wasting time and should stay stateside through the entire primary season? The whole thing was important to Bernie and he went. Good. And he met the pope. Obviously as the whole thing took place during the middle of a campaign, the Vatican had to be very careful not to imply however faintly any sort of endorsement or involvement in the campaign. Neither Bernie nor his surrogates ever implied otherwise -- although some on DU seem to, which is the right of enthusiastic grassroots supporters I suppose. But like this thread, it is NOT that Bernie's supporters are baiting Hillary's, or that we need to. The visit reflects that affinity of social message of a moral economy. I agree with those who say to the Hillary supporters who have put forward countless poutage threads to simply DEAL WITH IT.

[uponit7771]

214. After Sanders folk admit Podium Bird was wrong !!

[Bluenorthwest]

219. We love birds in Oregon. The bird bothers you. We love that too.

Flip that bird!

[Bluenorthwest]

212. Your candidate tells detailed lies which favor Republicans and smear LGBT and you are fine with that

[uponit7771]

213. HRC didn't smear LGBT in the vid you posted... How do you post imbeded vids on DU? Thx

[Bluenorthwest]

217. Yes she did, she claimed we did NOTHING until Ron and Nancy started the activism. Horrible smears.

And as I said you are totally fine with that long winded set of lies and insults. Here you are defending it, excusing it and dismissing it yet again, Defending the indefensible.

[uponit7771]

222. Could you point to the seconds she said LGBT did "nothing until Ron and Nancy" started anything? tia

[Bluenorthwest]

224. Do I look like your servant? You might be like Hillary, so uninformed about the actual history that

you can't even understand the horrors of what she's saying. The fact is the LGBT community spent years and years of activism and building the organizations to serve people with AIDS while your candidate's heroes sat in the WH and ignored the deaths of tens of thousands of gay and black Americans. The activists in the gay community and in the African American community started that hard work and long conversation years and years before your candidate falsely claims the Reagans got that work and conversation going. What she said was the opposite of the truth and the fact that you don't mind that is definitive of you and of her supporting cohort.

[Bluenorthwest]

218. What she said is like saying George W Bush was the savior of New Orleans after Katrina.....

Insulting, false and outlandishly out of touch with reality.

[uponit7771]

223. Hmmm, I don't hear anything like that in the vid but I wouldn't go as far as to say that was a smear

Do you know how to post imbeded vids?

tia

[Bluenorthwest]

225. It was a horrible smear and you are dismissing it and excusing it and refusing to discuss it.

The lack of concern out of her supporters for this set of filth lets me know that you don't know the history anymore than Hillary does. Disgusting display of bigoted attitudes.

[betsuni]

215. K&R

[Squinch]

227. Waiting for Bernie to crash the Dalai Lama's birthday party armed with a selfie stick.

[RazBerryBeret]

228. My take?

what kind of socks did he wear?
there are a thousand negative posts about this very subject and
I think that's the ONLY thing that hasn't been posted here, or talked about, or linked....

will this obsession be over soon?

[uponit7771]

233. No, it wont be over soon... it establishes what many thought of Sanders; another politician

... who's just about as full of shit as everyone else just different.

[RazBerryBeret]

235. interesting...

i just think it makes a group of people look small and petty.

[Lazy Daisy]

232. I think you think too much about this

My take on the this whole "Popegate" Hillary supporters are so worked up about is about the same as what I believe Bernie's take on this is. He got an opportunity to do something most people don't get to do. He got to meet The Pope.

I take the whole trip as something he saw as a once in a life time experience. One you simply don't pass up, regardless of what else is going on in your life. He admires this Pope, why wouldn't he do this? Nothing political.

I believe Bernie doesn't take becoming President for granted, knowing if it doesn't happen he may not get another invite.
He was invited to speak on something that came about as an anniversary, again not an everyday thing.

This has never been an endorsement of Bernie in my mind, but an opportunity that came about because the message going out across the world, one which Bernie is one of the people sending that message. The only other politician from our country beating that same drum is Elizabeth Warren. Being this is the Catholic Church, I don't see a woman being invited to speak at the conference.

And the nastiness being spewed by the Hillary camp over this is reminiscent of RW hatefulness.

[uponit7771]

234. Not really, I've been saying for nearly a year that Sanders can NOT throw the stone that he

... holds in his hand and this establish's such with solid proof.

Sanders is involving a guy who had to come out with a statement countering his claim of a meeting

Pope Francis: "..I greeted him, I shook his hand and nothing more..." direct quote

[Lazy Daisy]

236. And your point is?

Show me where Bernie stated the pope endorsed him?

Why do Hillary supporters want to make this anything but what this is, a very nice moment. The hatefulness is saddening.

The Pope made that statement not because what you and all the others want to think, but because he doesn't want to get involved. Bernie has, for a very long time, spoken out on financial equality. Something this Pope has also taken a stand on. Something this particular conference was about.


Hillary supporters need to concentrate on Hillary's positives instead of trying to go negative on Bernie.
If she get the nomination, there's a whole bunch of votes that need to be earned. This ain't doing it.