2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat happens if Clinton is our nominee and she gets indicted on Criminal Charges ?
Does it mean a President Trump or President Cruz
We should as a Party really consider this issue before it is too late
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)if the FBI recommends charges between now and the convention?"
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)product they sold.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Vote2016
(1,198 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)And our party should be discussing these questions openly.
Many people do not understand the basics--like why sending classified and Top Secret information from a homebrew, unsecured server is a bad thing.
They know the Clinton talking points and nothing more.
They are fools.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)Even if they don't charge her. If they recommend charge this she needs to withdraw from the race. I hope it's resolved soon.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)Response to pkdu (Reply #3)
berniepdx420 This message was self-deleted by its author.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Even with misspelled words, the post was clear.
Evidently, that cannot stop you from posting stupid responses.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)And yeah, I think she would be happy to see President Trump or President Cruz, if only she could say she won. I get the impression she believes she has fixed everything.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Impeachment, a Clinton family tradition.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Response to berniepdx420 (Original post)
Post removed
CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Stay frosty.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)Fuck those GOP clowns.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)CorkySt.Clair
(1,507 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)And a black cloud of corruption hanging over a Clinton GE campaign is going to cause a bloodbath downticket.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Here are some facts for the silly conservatives to ignore https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-hillary-clinton-is-unlikely-to-be-indicted-over-her-private-email-server/2016/03/08/341c3786-e557-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html
Could a clever law student fit the fact pattern into a criminal violation? Sure. Would a responsible federal prosecutor pursue it? Hardly absent new evidence, based on my conversations with experts in such prosecutions.
There are two main statutory hooks. Title 18, Section 1924, a misdemeanor, makes it a crime for a government employee to knowingly remove classified information without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location.
The State Department released 52,000 pages of Hillary Clintons emails as part of a court-ordered process. Here's what else we learned from the publicly released emails. (Monica Akhtar/The Washington Post)
Prosecutors used this provision in securing a guilty plea from former CIA director David H. Petraeus, who was sentenced to probation and fined $100,000. But there are key differences between Petraeus and Clinton.
Petraeus clearly knew the material he provided to Paula Broadwell was classified and that she was not authorized to view it. Highly classified . . . code word stuff in there, he told her. He lied to FBI agents, the kind of behavior that tends to inflame prosecutors.
In Clintons case, by contrast, there is no clear evidence that Clinton knew (or even should have known) that the material in her emails was classified. Second, it is debatable whether her use of the private server constituted removal or retention of material. Finally, the aggravating circumstance of false statements to federal agents is, as far as we know, absent.....
The argument here would be that Clinton engaged in such gross negligence by transferring information she knew or should have known was classified from its proper place onto her private server, or by sharing it with someone not authorized to receive it. Yet, as the Supreme Court has said, gross negligence is a nebulous term. Especially in the criminal context, it would seem to require conduct more like throwing classified materials into a Dumpster than putting them on a private server that presumably had security protections.
My point here isnt to praise Clintons conduct. She shouldnt have been using the private server for official business in the first place. Its certainly possible she was cavalier about discussing classified material on it; that would be disturbing but she wouldnt be alone, especially given rampant over-classification.
The handling of the emails is an entirely legitimate subject for FBI investigation. Thats a far cry from an indictable offense.
Ruth Marcus is hardly a Clinton supporter and these facts are consistent with the analysis posted elsewhere on this board that are not from Fox
grasswire
(50,130 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)She may get there anyway, from her own house.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)There was not crime committed here. Dan Abrams (son of Floyd Abrams) has some good analysis here http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/analysis-hillary-clinton-commit-crime-based-today/story?id=36626499
"During his tenure as the commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, Petraeus recorded handwritten notes in personal journals, including information he knew was classified at the very highest level. . .
Both the law and his oath required Petraeus to mark these books as 'top secret' and to store them in a Secured Compartmented Information Facility. He did neither. Rather, Petraeus allowed his biographer to take possession of the journals in order to use them as source material for his biography.
Importantly, Petraeus was well aware of the classified contents in his journals, saying to his biographer, Paula Broadwell on tape, 'I mean, they are highly classified, some of them. They don't have it on it, but I mean there's code word stuff in there.' When questioned by the FBI, Petraeus lied to agents in responding that he had neither improperly stored nor improperly provided classified information to his biographer. Petraeus knew at that time that there was classified information in the journals, and he knew they were stored improperly."
In the law, intent can be everything. Petraeus clearly knew he was violating the law, but based on what we know today, there is no evidence - not suppositions or partisan allegations but actual evidence - that Clinton knew that using a private email server was criminal or even improper at the time. Even assuming for argument's sake she created the server to keep her emails out of the public eye, that is in no way remotely comparable to the Petraeus case. Efforts to contrast the two cases fall flat factually and legally....
To be clear, none of this means Clinton won't be charged. There may be a trove of non-public evidence against her about which we simply do not know. It's also possible that the FBI recommends charges and federal prosecutors decide not to move forward as occurs in many cases. No question, that could create an explosive and politicized showdown. But based on what we do know from what has been made public, there doesn't seem to be a legitimate basis for any sort of criminal charge against her. I fear many commentators are allowing their analysis to become clouded by a long standing distrust, or even hatred of Hillary Clinton.
Dan is a good lawyer and this is a good analysis of the law on this issue
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Here is a good legal analysis as to why Hillary Clinton will not be indicted http://prospect.org/article/why-hillary-wont-be-indicted-and-shouldnt-be-objective-legal-analysis
The most important words in this statute are the ones I have italicized. To violate this statute, Secretary Clinton would have had to know that she was dealing with classified information, and either that she was disclosing it to people who could not be trusted to protect the interests of the United States or that she was handling it in a way (e.g. by not keeping it adequately secure) that was at least arguably prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States.
The statute also provides a definition of what constitutes classified information within the meaning of the subsection described above: [C]lassified information, means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for restricted dissemination.
Again, the most important words are the ones I have italicized. First, they indicate that the material must have been classified at the time of disclosure. Post hoc classification, which seems to characterize most of the classified material found on Clintons server, cannot support an indictment under this section. Second, information no matter how obviously sensitive does not classify itself; it must be officially and specifically designated as such.
Lesser penalties are provided under 18 USC 1924 which provides that an officer of the United States commits a criminal violation if that person possesses classified documents or materials and knowingly removes such materials without authority and with the intent to retain such materials at an unauthorized location.
Prosecutors would also encounter stumbling blocks if they charged Clinton under this law. First, it is unclear whether classified information conveyed in an email message would be considered a document or materials subject to removal. Moreover, with respect to information in messages sent to Clinton, it would be hard to see her as having knowingly removed anything, and the same is arguably true of information in messages that she originated. If, however, she were sent attachments that were classified and kept them on her server, this law might apply.
But even if this section did apply, a prosecutor would face difficulties. Heads of agencies have considerable authority with respect to classified information, including authority to approve some exceptions to rules regarding how classified information should be handled and authority to declassify material their agency has classified. It would also be hard to show that Clinton intended to retain any information sent to her if her usual response was to forward the information to another, and if she then deleted the material from her inbox, whether or not it was deleted from her computer......
Based on what has been revealed so far, there is no reason to think that Clinton committed any crimes with respect to the use of her email server, including her handling of classified information. While it is always possible that information not revealed will change this picture, at the moment Clintons optimism that she will not be criminally charged appears justified. The same is not necessarily true of those who sent her classified information. If it could be shown that they knowingly acquired information from classified sources and sent it unmarked to an unapproved server, their fate may be less kind than Clintons is likely to be.
There will be no indictment
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Willful or not.
Since Hillary has now lawyered up, the chances of a indictment have risen. It's still not highly likely, but it is a significant risk nonetheless.
The FBI wouldn't have spent this much time and resources on this if their wasn't prima facie evidence of a crime. The fact that they are progressing to interviews suggest a case is being built.
To blindly write this off as no big deal is just as foolish as claiming an indictment will happen.
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Here is a good explanation as to why the silly but funny hopes of the conservatives that the FBI will find a criminal violation by Hillary Clinton are so funny http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-clinton-emails-legal-20150908-story.html
That's because even a misdemeanor charge for mishandling classified information would require proof that Clinton knew she was keeping government secrets at "an unauthorized location."
Clinton has repeatedly said that she did not knowingly send or receive emails that were marked classified, and that her use of a personal email server while not "the best choice" was not illegal or unauthorized.
But these lawyers also caution that much remains unknown about Clinton's unusual email system and they say the Democratic front-runner remains vulnerable, both politically and legally, because of the ongoing FBI inquiry and a newly energized Republican-led House committee investigating the 2012 Benghazi attack that killed the U.S. ambassador to Libya and three others.
That investigation appeared to be going nowhere, but it gained new focus in late February when GOP staffers learned for the first time why they had received only a handful of State Department emails to or from the secretary of State. They had not been told until then that Clinton had not used the State Department's email server and instead relied exclusively on a personal system....
Stewart Baker, who served as top national security lawyer under Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush, said it does not appear based on what is known now that Hillary Clinton committed a crime when she used a private email server.
"It was a bad idea, a serious lapse in judgment, but that's not the same as saying it leads to criminal liability," he said. On the other hand, the continuing inquiries could turn up damaging evidence, he said, including the possibility that foreign governments tapped into her emails.
"This investigation has a way to go, and it will keep drip, drip, dripping away for a long time," he said.
The knowingly standard is not an easy standard to meet in this case.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)If she is indicted before the convention, she'll either suspend her campaign (which I doubt she would without being forced) or the super delegates will take matters into their own hands.
If she wins the election and then is indicted, she'll be impeached.
None of those scenarios are good for Democrats. The best scenario is that the FBI clears her ASAP, preferably before the convention. We don't need this lingering.
artislife
(9,497 posts)He may not have been my Grandma's saint, but he has a pure heart. So I think it suits him.
Hills?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)about getting a Democratic WH then yes this should be considered.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Here are some facts for the conservatives to ignore or not be able to understand https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/04/11/republicans-know-hillary-clinton-is-not-going-to-be-indicted-they-just-cant-say-so/
The relatively few cases that drew prosecution almost always involved a deliberate intent to violate classification rules, as well as some add-on element: An FBI agent who took home highly sensitive agency records while having an affair with a Chinese agent; a Boeing engineer who brought home 2000 classified documents and whose travel to Israel raised suspicions; a National Security Agency official who removed boxes of classified documents and also lied on a job application form.
.......But if youre a Republican pundit, you know that the idea of Hillary Clinton being led away in handcuffs is just too tantalizing for your audience to resist. And so when the Fox News Sunday panel (consisting of two conservative Republicans and two objective reporters, which is their idea of balance) had the chance to weigh in, the conservatives Karl Rove and The Posts George Will expressed the proper degree of faux outrage at Obama. Whats most interesting about their comments (heres the transcript) is that neither one of them even tried to make a case that Clinton should be indicted. Instead, they both brought up former IRS official Lois Lerner, to argue that the Obama Justice Department engages in cover-ups of criminal behavior. They implied, without saying outright, that the Justice Department would never issue indictments that would damage Democrats (such as Hillary Clinton).
For the most part, the Clinton email story has been a disappointment to Republicans. They were desperately hoping that the emails would reveal some kind of ghastly malfeasance on Clintons part, some smoking gun that would make all Americans realize that she should never be elected president. When that turned out not to be the case, they pinned their hopes on the idea that she would just have to be charged with a crime eventually. I have no doubt that people like Will and Rove now understand that that isnt going to happen either.
But having gone this far, they need to keep up appearances, and they also know that just talking about her emails serves to convince people that something scandalous must have happened. So they are laying the groundwork to argue, if and when she doesnt get indicted, that it must only be because Barack Obamas corrupt administration quashed the investigation and hid the truth from the public.
And down where the conservative rank and file get their information the talk radio rants, the right-wing blogs, the breathless chain emails these two contradictory ideas are both widely circulated. Clinton is about to be indicted, and Clinton wont be indicted because the fix is in. The assumption in either case is that of course she committed crimes, even if no one can say exactly what they were. Because shes Hillary Clinton, right? What more do you need to know?
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)There will be no indictment http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/waiting-clinton-indictment-dont-hold-your-breath
The examination, which included cases spanning the past two decades, found some with parallels to Clintons use of a private server for her emails, but in nearly all instances that were prosecuted aggravating circumstances that dont appear to be present in Clintons case.
The relatively few cases that drew prosecution almost always involved a deliberate intent to violate classification rules as well as some add-on element: An FBI agent who took home highly sensitive agency records while having an affair with a Chinese agent; a Boeing engineer who brought home 2000 classified documents and whose travel to Israel raised suspicions; a National Security Agency official who removed boxes of classified documents and also lied on a job application form.
Politicos examination seems to have only been able to find one person who sincerely believes Clinton will face prosecution: former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R), who was a prosecutor and a Justice Department official before his partisan antics made him something of a clownish joke.
Among more objective observers, the idea of Clinton facing an indictment seems, at best, implausible. This is very much in line with a recent American Prospect examination, which reached the same conclusion.
TPMs Josh Marshall published a related piece in February, after speaking to a variety of law professors and former federal prosecutors about the Clinton story. To a person, Josh wrote, they agreed the idea of a Clinton indictment is very far-fetched.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I was reading and then I realized it was WaPo and Maddow? Not cool. My understanding thus far is that she may have used a person to forward copied top secret emails to her for security. She unlike the others that used private emails, she used a whole private server, and then deleted tons of the emails ahead of time, some of which have turned up and are work related. I am not sating that anything will come from this, but it will be back on the airwaves general election non-stop. many of these stories gloss over the private email server and compare it with private emails. Not sure how they set up their private emails to only forward on to government servers though. But is sounds like we are only getting half truths from all sides right now.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,328 posts)And that it isn't a real indictment but a security review indictment.
I don't think she will be indicted.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)The original report from the NYT on which this story was based was changed and this thread is based on a false and misleading premise or claim. The DOJ has confirmed that there is no criminal probe into the Clinton e-mails http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/doj-no-hillary-clinton-criminal-inquiry
The New York Times reported Thursday that two inspectors general asked the Justice Department "to open a criminal investigation into whether sensitive government information was mishandled in connection with the personal email account Hillary Rodham Clinton used as secretary of state." The language of that report originally cast Clinton as a target of the requested probe, but notably was changed after Times reporters received complaints from Clinton's presidential campaign.
The agency now says that it what it received was "not a criminal referral," but a request related to the potential compromise of classified information, according to Washington Post report Sari Horowitz:
Sari Horwitz ✔@SariHorwitz
The Department of Justice now correcting their earlier statement & saying the referral regarding Clinton emails was not a criminal inquiry.
Sari HorwitzVerified account
@SariHorwitz
Correct from DOJ ept has received a referral related to the potential compromise of classified information. It is not a criminal referral.
Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD), the top Democrat on the select House committee investigating the Benghazi attacks, also rejected the notion that the inspectors general of the State Department and intelligence agencies asked for a criminal probe into Clinton's email account
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)msongs
(67,406 posts)fasttense
(17,301 posts)The odds are Not likely for either one. And Raygun (who I had hoped would pitch over dead when he was president) never did even at the ripe old age of 78.
Faux pas
(14,681 posts)they should do it now so she can get out of our way!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)...and should do so. The playing out of this new Clinton psychodrama on America is producing far too much stress.
riversedge
(70,219 posts)between the two many days.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Those who want to live like people did in the Soviet Union, where even certain words could not be said, and no criticism was allowed of leaders ought think twice about where that takes us.
TRUTH shields us from TYRANNY.
And I will never apologize for being brave enough to face it no matter who is affected.
Faux pas
(14,681 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,340 posts)get your bacon for breakfast? Oh well. I guess you'll have to try something else.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Pres. Cruz or Pres. Trump..
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)I think you are just trying to stir shit.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)The claim that there is a criminal referral here is really sad and wrong. http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/08/12/myths-and-facts-on-hillary-clintons-email-and-r/204913
The Justice Department said Friday it has received a request to examine the handling of classified information related to the private emails from Hillary Clinton during her time as secretary of state, but it is not a criminal referral. [Reuters, 7/24/15]
AP: U.S. Official Said That Request Of DOJ "Doesn't Suggest Wrongdoing By Clinton Herself." The Associated Press quoted an anonymous U.S. official who noted that the referral did not implicate Clinton in any wrongdoing:
The New York Times first reported the referral. The Clinton campaign said Friday that she "followed appropriate practices in dealing with classified materials." Spokesman Nick Merrill said emails deemed classified by the administration were done so after the fact, not when they were sent.
One U.S. official said it was unclear whether classified information was mishandled and the referral doesn't suggest wrongdoing by Clinton herself. [Associated Press, 7/24/15]
Wash. Post: Officials Say Clinton "Is Not A Target" Of FBI Probe. The Washington Post reported that government officials said Clinton is "not a target" of the FBI's investigation:
Hillary Rodham Clinton's attorney has agreed to provide the FBI with the private server that housed her e-mail during her four years as secretary of state, Clinton's presidential campaign said Tuesday.
..
The inquiry by the FBI is considered preliminary and appears to be focused on ensuring the proper handling of classified material. Officials have said that Clinton, the Democratic presidential front-runner, is not a target.
The FBI's efforts have included contacting the Denver-based technology firm that helped manage the Clintons' unusual private e-mail system. [The Washington Post, 8/11/15]
The GOP and the Conservatives are so scared of Hillary Clinton that they are making crap up and hoping that their lies will hurt Clinton.
Facts here do not support the GOP silly claims
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)The chances of an indictment are very slim at best http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/01/06/benghazi-fabricator-demands-hillary-clinton-ind/207808
Washington Post: FBI Probe Is "Focused On Ensuring The Proper Handling Of Classified Material." Hillary Clinton "is not a target" of the FBI investigation, which is "focused on ensuring the proper handling of classified material." From The Washington Post's August 11, 2015, report:
The inquiry by the FBI is considered preliminary and appears to be focused on ensuring the proper handling of classified material. Officials have said that Clinton, the Democratic presidential front-runner, is not a target. [The Washington Post, 8/11/15]
NY Times: Hillary Clinton "Is Not A Target Of The Investigation." In an August 14, 2015, article, The New York Times explained that Hillary Clinton is not a target of the FBI's investigation into her private email server. The Times wrote:
Law enforcement officials have said that Mrs. Clinton, who is seeking the 2016 Democratic nomination for president, is not a target of the investigation, and she has said there is no evidence that her account was hacked. There has also been no evidence that she broke the law, and many specialists believe the occasional appearance of classified information in her account was probably of marginal consequence. [The New York Times, 8/14/15]
CNN: Clinton "Has Not Personally Been Declared The Subject Of The Investigation Into Her Emails." Recapping an August 19, 2015, interview between CNN host Chris Cuomo and Donald Trump, CNN.com noted that Clinton "has not personally been declared the subject of the investigation into her emails":
Cuomo countered that Petraeus knew the information was classified and intentionally passed it along, but there has been no indication to date that the Justice Department believes Clinton intentionally shared information she knew was classified. She has not personally been declared the subject of the investigation into her emails. http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/19/politics/donald-trump-chris-cuomo-cnn-interview/[CNN.com, 8/21/15 ]
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)SDjack
(1,448 posts)what Bernie will do if he is disqualified.
FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)Some one as Egocentric as Hillary and the "It's My Turn" campaign knows no bounds
grasswire
(50,130 posts)And she will put the blame on everyone else, including the voters.
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)You would get great odds http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-winner
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)Predictwise has here at 93% to be the nominee. That would equate to a great return if you are silly enough to buy an option contract http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-democratic-nomination
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)Gothmog
(145,242 posts)This non-scandal is also disappointing sad Sanders supporters who have wised up and know that Sanders will not be the nominee absent an indictment https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/03/04/clinton-emails-continue-to-be-non-scandal-disappointing-republicans/
Now lets be honest. When this story broke, Republicans were desperately hoping that we would learn that some criminal wrongdoing or catastrophic security breach had taken place, so they could then use that against Clinton in her run for the White House. But that turns out not to be the case. So the next best thing from their perspective is that theres some vaguely-defined scandal that the public doesnt really understand, but that voters will hold against her if you just repeat the words Clinton email scandal often enough.
They may have gotten that. Ive certainly seen plenty of voters quoted in press accounts saying some version of, I dont trust Clinton, cause you know, that email thing. Im sure 99 percent of them couldnt tell you what they think Clinton actually did thats so awful, but they know that there was something about emails, and it was, like, a scandal, right?
In recent weeks, Ive had a couple of liberal friends and relatives ask me, with something approaching panic, I just heard that Clinton is about to be indicted. Is that true?!? The answer is no, but they heard that because its something conservatives say constantly. Tune to to talk radio or surf through conservative web sites, and before long youll hear someone say that the Clinton indictment is coming any day now. Donald Trump, with his characteristically tenuous relationship to reality, frequently says that shes about to be indicted or that she wont be permitted to run for president because shell be on trial. It hasnt happened and it wont happen, but that isnt going to stop them from saying it.
Finally, theres a phrase you should watch out for when you see this issue discussed: Drip, drip, drip. Sometimes itll be a Republican partisan using it, but more often it will be some pundit explaining why the issue is important. What drip, drip drip means is that despite the fact that there was no crime and no security breach, the media will keep discussing the story as the investigations continue, and that will cause political difficulty for Clinton. Drip, drip, drip is this controversys version of, its out there, meaning, there isnt anything scandalous about the substance of this matter, but heres how well justify talking about it as though it actually were something scandalous.
I dont say that to justify Clintons original decision to set up the private server. She shouldnt have done that, not only because it was against department policy, but also because she should have been extra careful, knowing her history, to make sure she minded her Ps and Qs on everything like this. She should have known that once she started running for president there were going to be FOIA requests and lawsuits and investigations of everything she did as Secretary of State. So yes, that was an error in judgment. But it wasnt a crime and it appears that no bad consequences for the country came of it so we shouldnt treat it like it was.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Could relinquished her delegates to someone of her choice. If after she is in office the VP would take over. In other words, if the question is will Sanders be the nominee, no, won't happen.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)she will trott out the 'innocent until proven guilty", "i will beat this", blah blah. she wants this so bad she can taste it, and dws and the corrupt supers will not replace her.
but indictment or no, if a recommendation is made, its trump in a landslide. if no recommendation is made, many will think obama fixed it for her, so it will still be trump, but perhaps not a complete blowout.
lets face reality. Hillary nominee means a trump administration. its that simple.