I have no problem with the Sanders/Pope meeting, but if he wants my vote

[eastwestdem]

He will have to develop some sort of faith. It just seems empty (and even pandering) that an avowed agnostic is touting a visit with the head of a church he was not raised in, or seemingly has any connections. I could never vote for a candidate who does not think that some divine intervention is needed in such a powerful job.

Before anyone bashes me, I don’t yet firmly support either candidate. I have been going back and forth between the two…my state doesn’t vote until June. There are great things about both, and things I really don’t like about both…but the faith issue with Sanders really bothers me. And honestly, a connection with the Catholic church doesn't really fly. Why pick the most oppressive, wealthiest, and corrupt of all?

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. .

[JackRiddler]

61. Agnostics can be Christians.

Hear me out, eastwestdem. If I believe that Karl Marx was the son of God born of a virgin, crucified and rose from the dead on the third day, but reject his teachings, am I a Marxian? No. Similarly faith should be in the teachings, not in a form of literal truth. If you believe in the literal truth of the Christ story but reject Love thy Neighbor and the other teachings, are you a Christian?

Which of these candidates is closer to the teachings of the Christ as you understand them?

(By the way, I don't believe Sanders has ever said he is an agnostic.)

[FreakinDJ]

2. The "avowed agnostic" who acts more Christian then the Corporatist ?

[litlbilly]

23. agnostics are actually more religious IMO, they are open to reason.

[ThePhilosopher04]

59. This. Not tied to any one tradition or legend. Open-minded, usually very spiritual and connected

with the overall human condition. And most of all, live by the Golden Rule. Bernie gets it.

[litlbilly]

62. couldnt have said it better myself. Bravo

[99Forever]

3. Bwahahahaha...

Funny shit dooooood.

[JI7]

4. So you have a pRoblem with Obama meeting religious jewish buddhist

And other faith members of which he isn't a part of ?

Did you have a problem with the jewish and muslim leaders who attended the ceremony for Frances becoming pope ?

[eastwestdem]

17. I'm fine with any meeting that connects and builds bridges between groups, the problem

is when it is done in the middle of a campaign in an effort to court voters. Then is just appears to be a ploy.

[JI7]

24. that's a common part of campaigns. Hillary has met with a lot of jewish leaders and groups

To help get jewish support.

[rurallib]

32. where did you get the idea that it was done to court voters?

Why would the Vatican do that?
Sanders didn't just drop in you know. He was invited to speak at a conference.

[pangaia]

36. That is NOT what you put forth in your OP.

You said you could not vote for someone who doesn't have 'faith,' whatever that is.

[berniepdx420]

5. Weather one is monotheistic, atheist or other, should not keep us from coming together to fight

against Social & Economic Injustices.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. His belief system is the most legitimate one I've ever heard from a politician, ever.

[JI7]

7. where was the divine intervention when his people were being killed in the millions ?

[Punkingal]

8. Ever hear of "spiritual?"

At least he isn't a hypocrite. Hillary says how important her religion is, and has no problem lying on a daily basis.

[ucrdem]

9. Beyond good and evil

there is the campaign trail which can be a pretty cynical place. Good luck trying to explain this to a Sanders partisan but it is what it is. BTW welcome to DU.

[tonedevil]

10. I hope that...

Senator Sanders can get by without your vote because your reasoning is pretty much nonexistent to my eyes. The message is economic morality try to keep up.

[djean111]

11. He was there to talk about poverty, not to make a connection with faith.

Also, funnily enough, I would not vote for anyone who says they will let their religion have a say in governance.

Dvine intervention? bwahahahaha! So, the Iraq war was some kind of holy war? What kind of "divine intervention" are you talking about? Bush maundered on about his faith all the time - and then - 9/11. No divine intervention there, folks.

Maybe you would be more comfortable with Ted Cruz. His deity is gonna rule the world. And take all the money and property of non-Christians.

Oh, and Obama inviting homophobic Rick Warren to give the convocation? Disgusting. But - religious, amiright?
Hillary's meetings with The Family - ugh.

No one at this point cares enough to "bash" you. Vote for whoever you want, really. No need to seek martyrdom.

[Lil Missy]

12. Bernie is far from agnostic. He is a Jew.

Nothing wrong with his seeing the Pope. Might be bad timing with the election coming up, but I have no problem assuming his motives are sincere.

[Kip Humphrey]

19. thank you for your sanity here!

[arcane1]

13. You're just making shit up and hoping it sticks. It isn't n/t

[litlbilly]

14. sorry, Bernies positions are much closer to "God" than most organized so called religions.

Agnostic is just a word, just means I will believe in God when and if I see proof, until then, the door is open. That's really all it means.
And if you think someone has to be connected to some big religion, I say good luck with that. Freedom of religion also should mean freedom from religion. I believe that is Bernie's position and it is the perfect place to be IMHO. No government should be connected to any religion. Its that simple.

[litlbilly]

18. Bernies postions on poverty etc, that is a true religious position.

[indigoth]

16. Because, ya know...

That "Devine intervention" worked so well for hitler. Or the crusades. Or the original native Americans. Or west Salem baptist church. Or the kkk.

Because some deity has specifically chosen some one to do/be something which no one knows what. I mean, come on ... This is what Ted Cruz thinks. This is what Romney thought. You actually want to "walk down" that path? Really?

Smh

[Armstead]

20. Suggestion -- Look at values as they pertain to life on earth

Whether someone is "faithfilled," agnostic or an atheist is nobody's business but their own.

What matters is their values and beliefs in how to behave, and what is important on earth. That is what has an effect in this life....The rest is totally internal and won't be answered until we die.

The rest is between you and your own God...or lack of one.

As for this episode -- Sanders has said he disagrees with the Catholic Church and the Pope on certain issues. But he admires the Pope and economic and social justice stance of the church in otehr matters.

[Ino]

21. This is how you choose a president?

Oh, 15 posts. Thanks for your concern.

[Myrina]

60. +1 brazillion

[litlbilly]

22. 17 posts, go back to the Hill shill table and try something else. this is total nonsense.

[eastwestdem]

25. Wow, some of the Sanders supporters sure are passionate.

It may not be your thing, but a large number of Americans do vote based at least partially on religion. You might not want to belittle them for their beliefs, just as I wouldn't belittle you for yours. I think I might look elsewhere for objective discussions about the candidates, but your responses certainly will be factored into my decision.

[JimDandy]

33. Sheesh...

You just did belittle Sanders beliefs.

Noone believes you might have voted for Bernie after this post.

Buh bye!

[840high]

38. You joined DU yesterday and your

fav group is Clinton. 'bye.

[NRaleighLiberal]

39. Wow...the whole election..indeed the future..depends on you!

[rurallib]

43. It is the lies and the hypocrisy we belittle, not the religion.

[LoveIsNow]

52. This whole post is about belittling Sanders' beliefs.

What you are saying is a form of bigotry, just as much as if you believed he was Jewish and wouldn't vote for him because of that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Whistles...

[Trajan]

27. DU Whack A Mole ...

It continues ...

[HereSince1628]

28. Who do I want leading the empire to war? An agnostic or a hypocrit?

Oh excuse me! Methodists advocating killing muslims isn't hypocrisy.

[larkrake]

29. dont mix religion with politics.

many involved with creating the constitution were atheists. many pilgrims were fleeing from religious persecution. Faith does not make the man. I'd venture to say religion has no business in running a diverse country.

[Android3.14]

30. Back to the cave with you.

[Luminous Animal]

31. He believes in God. He has flat out said it...

Sanders doesn't generally speak about his own religious views. He said he's proud to be Jewish, and though he's "not much into" organized religion, he wouldn't be doing what he is today if he were not "spiritual."

"I believe that there is a connection between all living things, and that my belief in God requires me to do all that I can to follow the 'Golden Rule,' to do unto others and as I would have them do unto me," he said. "As a public servant, it requires me to do all that I can to ensure that every person lives with dignity and security."

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2015/09/18/sanders-pope-agree-income-inequality/72432128/

[Califonz]

34. Woo hoo!

Hillary shill whack-a-mole day in GDP!

*plonk*

[rurallib]

35. Where did you get the idea Sanders was an "avowed agnostic"?

He's been Jewish since birth. Can you cite the reference where he declares himself to be an "avowed agnostic" or you just making it up?

But beyond that, what is wrong with a doubter or a non-believer speaking with a religious person?

[HooptieWagon]

42. It seems to be 'invent a meme' day.

Does Brock pay overtime?

[redwitch]

37. Who says he doesn't have faith?

He went to Rome to talk about economic inequality. Which he has been talking about since forever and whether he attends synagogue or not has nothing to do with anything. If you think Hillary is the most spiritual candidate and if that is most important to you then you have your choice.

[BernieforPres2016]

40. Favorite group: Hillary Clinton

I am shocked.

[HooptieWagon]

41. If you want faith-based leadership, then go vote for Cruz.

Most voters find separation of church and state still a good thing.

[JRLeft]

47. I have a better idea, the op should move to Saudi Arabia.

[HooptieWagon]

49. Probably already living in Mubai.

Looks like one of Brock's hired bots.

[GeorgeGist]

44. This might help ... No religion needed.

[JRLeft]

46. Whew!

[Romulox]

48. Oh Jesus. The OP is a "moral majority" (of one)! nt

[LoveIsNow]

50. Firstly, he says he's (a more scular) Jewish.

He is a speculated agnostic, nothing more.

Secondly, isn't a church you don't have any connections to exactly the right place for an agnostic? Agnostics are into experimentation, and there idea of "spiritual but not religious".

Finally, if you truly believe someone must believe in God to be president, I pity your closed mind. There is no reason an atheist couldn't be a great president.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. Well, Bernie's faith seems to be in people and democracy. Much more so than the Christian Hillary.

[snot]

53. Judge by the person's acts and accomplishments,

not by their professed creed – which they may or may not actually follow, let alone believe in.

I.e., don't just "read [their] lips."

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Yes, cuz the executives who think they have a direct line to invisible sky-beings always do so well.

[jmg257]

55. WTF? "He will have to develop some sort of faith" He's 74 - what type of faith should he "develop"?

"Why pick the most oppressive,..." ???

This isn't like Hillary, who won't take a dump without measuring which way the water is flowing - it is FAITH.

I'm sure his is quite developed by now!

[basselope]

56. So basically you want the exact opposite of what the founders intended.

Bernie has shown more "faith" than any other candidate I can think of in history. He actually thinks we should care about each other.

While Pope Francis is currently the head of a very corrupt organization, HIS message is similar. He can't change the entire institution and even though I fall into the category of Religulous, I respect that Pope Francis has been saying about acceptance.

However, no TRUE person of faith could ever vote for Hillary Clinton. You can't vote for someone who voted for a completely unjustified war.. it is the antithesis of ALL faiths (I don't even think satanists would condone it).

[shawn703]

57. Bush believed in divine intervention too

And that's why the country was in the mess it was in with two wars and an economy in tatters.

I have a serious question for you. Why would it be better to have a leader who makes decisions because of the belief that God will intervene and make everything okay? Several places in Scripture it says NOT to put God to the test. Wouldn't it be better to have a leader who does not believe divine intervention is needed, and that he or she should make decisions with the assumption that such help will not be forthcoming? We could end up with another Bush.

[CharlotteVale]

58. Exactly, and whaddya know, God never told Bush anything he didn't want to hear.

[jfern]

63. Lots of Reform Jews don't go screaming about their religion. That doesn't make them agnostic.

[pdsimdars]

64. I no longer bash the foolish, now that I've discovered "ignore" --- buh bye.