The collective loss of shit - H's supporters over the Vatican trip - is epic.

[Aerows]

Calling Bernie a "proxy of the Vatican" in one breath and berating the Pope in the other, then seeming to demand appreciation as serious commentators.

I've never seen anything like it before.

Get a hold of your damn selves.

[elleng]

1. Yes! Please!

[Aerows]

4. Have mercy, elleng.

DU has some people that have absolutely lost it.

[Aerows]

2. Every damn body on DU for Hillary suddenly acts like they are a Catholic

Give me a break.

[elleng]

11. And, Aerows, if they really were, imo,

chances are they'd UNDERSTAND, and be glad for the 'meeting.'

[Aerows]

15. It's enough to make you

want to break down and cry. I swear.

[Kalidurga]

30. I already broke down and cried

while LMAO.

[Aerows]

41. Mixed emotions

on this end.

[elleng]

60. Wish mine were mixed/

I'm getting madder and madder. I knew there would be 'issues' re: a Jewish candidate, but I guess I'm not as 'strong' as I've hoped.

[Aerows]

72. I know

I am, as well.

The slander is getting deeper and deeper.

[Punkingal]

85. I feel ya....it has just about driven me over the edge.

I probably shouldn't admit that, since that is their intent. The thing to remember, and I learned this in my first job that I was actually using my psych degree, is you can't reinforce someone's insanity by giving it any legitimacy at all. I keep telling myself this every day.

[Aerows]

88. There comes a point

when you have to point out flat-ass crazy as what it is. Not to mention maligning the Pope?

[Punkingal]

96. Maligning the Pope is what did it for me.

He exudes kindness and love. Do I agree with all his stances, no, but I understand why he has them. That I disagree with him doesn't change the fact that he never misses an opportunity to hug a disabled person or to care for the oppressed, or that he has the courage to speak out in a positive way. And no doubt he spends many hours praying for this planet and everyone on it. It is shameful and ludicrous the things that have been said here.

[Aerows]

101. He is the best Pope we will see in my lifetime, I believe

he is one that sees people. He sees those that have been cast off, left behind, destroyed and foresaken.

I believe he can be a tremendous force for good in this world simply because he does that.

[greiner3]

175. There are several DU'ers who fit this

And I just post back that I hope they revert to sanity after the convention as I truly look forward to their OPs. So much real talent and they post crap💩

[Aerows]

195. "So much real talent and they post crap💩"

Indeed.

[Bubzer]

114. It's absurd, I know!

I think there's more than a touch of this going on:

Victim Claiming: the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy or attention seeking. Where a person is known for regular victim playing, the person may be referred to as a professional victim.

[Aerows]

135. Look at the posts flowing in

It is ridiculous.

[w4rma]

201. Every damn body on DU for Hillary suddenly acts like they are a Catholic or hates Catholics.

Just like their leader, they want to have it both ways.

[Skink]

3. It was Breath taking

[Aerows]

42. Truly n/t

[Hissyspit]

5. "He stalked the Pope" is now an actual talking point. I kid you not.

Insane.

[NWCorona]

9. Like that could actually happen.

Bernie and his group wouldn't have gotten close without approval.

[cui bono]

10. Yes, it is.

Some idiot keeps posting that Bernie jumped him outside the bathroom. How sad that someone would actually post that, and then repost it again. What a sad human being.

This pope thing really makes me see how pathetic Hillary supporters' lives must be, or how well they are getting paid to look like such fools.

.

[pdsimdars]

22. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Amen! ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Aerows]

23. It's so damn insulting to the Pope

to Catholicism, to Catholics, and to people that may be agnostic but recognize the Pope's role in positive works that it is enough to make me want to sit down and cry.

We can scream at the Catholic Church all day long, but if you absolutely need them, they will be there for you. I don't care who you are or what you have done.

I say that as an Episcopalian that lost their way once.

[senz]

45. Peace be with you.

[Aerows]

74. And also with you :)

[2banon]

109. Count me in as agnostic, and a great admirer of the Pope since his

papacy began, (hope that's the correct application of the term in this context)

Didn't know a thing about him, (despised the last pope) but was honestly impressed with his bio which pales in comparison to what he's been doing and saying during his tenure as the Pope.

If Bernie was bailing out of the campaign in New York to attend a meeting with Wall Street Banksters, Hucksters, and Grifters, say in Panama, well I'd be very ticked off.

[Aerows]

113. The Pope has been consistent in his message of economic equality.

That Bernie Sanders, of 100 Senators was invited to speak at such a conference, and speak personally with Pope Frances, says quite a bit about both his clout and his character.

Only a sour grapes type or direct opponent would attempt derision as commentary.

[2banon]

121. indeed...

[Lordquinton]

162. It's also insulting to people who don't like the pope

who have been trying to shine light on the RCC and get cast aside, only to have this thing come up and suddenly everyone is so concerned with his stance on LGBTQIA and women's rights, it's like, I can see how fake they are, and at least I can recognize how powerful the Pope is (which is why I hold strong feelings about his stances) and how important this is for Sanders, and why he did it, and how it will give him a bump, if even slightly, and how much credibility it will give him internationally when he's elected.

Shockingly someone who is running for president does something that will gain him some votes, STOP THE PRESSES!

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. Pretty soon I expect them to post a picture of a potted plant...

And claim it's where he was hiding as he prepared to "ambush" the Pope.

[grasswire]

52. don't give Saturday Night Live any ideas...LOL

Up next!

[HooptieWagon]

58. Or a street map of Rome...

...claiming it's his airplane route.

[cherokeeprogressive]

65. YES! That was some funny stuff. Good times.

[Aerows]

80. I loved that one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458

Epic thread.

[cui bono]

122. okay, that was funny!

Thanks for the link!

I have laughed at stuff on DU more today than I have in a long while.



.

[Aerows]

137. I'm glad to contribute to your laughter

ciu bono. You are a fine DUer, and a good friend

[cui bono]

154. Thanks Aerows!

You're pretty awesome yourself!



.

[Fawke Em]

150. What the everloving fuck?

I didn't know planes followed streets when flying over cities.

[Aerows]

151. That whole thread

was MILES of entertainment.

Marr was so on point with that post, I swear, I'm laughing just posting it again.

[berni_mccoy]

129. Mass Mental Illness has Gripped Them

They have collectively brought themselves to this point over the boiling hate. They need to start a support group stat.

[Aerows]

194. It is the only conclusion a reasonable

person could come to. Yes, a support group would probably help.

[greiner3]

176. Did the poster say the reason for this was Bernie was out of TP

[Aerows]

190. One is claiming he popped out from behind a potted plant

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1762654

I've never seen anything like it. Shit-stirring for no other reason than shit-stirring and slander.

It's a competition at this point to see who can be the most outlandish in their slams.

Maybe Eminem can get in on this act at some point.

[Capt. Obvious]

228. It wasn't outside the bathroom

Bernie grabbed the stall next to the Pope while he was doing his business.

[JackRiddler]

16. He was an invited guest at the papal residence!

[passiveporcupine]

166. And he had a prearranged meeting with the Pope on Sat morning

According to the economist Jeffrey Sachs, who has also been attending the conference which ends today, the courtesy visit was prearranged. “Last night the meeting was scheduled for 6am this morning,” Sachs said in comments to CNA. “They had the chance to talk for several minutes.” No photographs were taken of the encounter.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-meets-bernie-sanders-vatican-confirms/#ixzz4633ABBnr

This is just the most beautiful link I've seen all day. Damn this feels good.

[Aerows]

32. It is sickening.

What should be a celebrated idea that a Democratic nominee candidate traveled and met the Pope has become denigrating the Pope as though he was a liar and Bernie Sanders as though he was some sort of gun-wielding bank robber that forced the Pope to agree to the message that "Yes, we need a moral economy."

Yes, Bernie is a gangster that put a gun to the head of the Pope to allow him to speak about poverty, economics, and how to move to a more moral future.

Bernie is so gangsta.

[uponit7771]

6. cause this the first time ever the Sanders campaign has misrepresented proxy credibility :rolleyes:

[Bluenorthwest]

25. cause all you do is slam Bernie Sanders with unsupported smears. You are transparent:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=216668&sub=trans

[uponit7771]

28. Link and quote inside

“This morning when I was leaving, Senator Sanders was there,” he told reporters in Italian aboard the papal airliner today, after his visit to the refugee-filled Greek island of Lesbos. “He knew I was leaving at that time and he had the courtesy to greet me. I greeted him, his wife, and another couple who were there and were sleeping in Santa Martha. This is called good manners and it is not getting involved in politics.”

http://qz.com/663579/the-pope-met-with-bernie-sanders-out-of-politeness-and-good-manners-he-says/

[Aerows]

40. Oh.

Well QZ is obviously a site for those who are interested in news.

Really, uponit? I've always known you to be a fierce advocate for Obama, and I'm sure you pride yourself on that, and you should.

This mess? It is absolutely unworthy of you.

Peace.

[uponit7771]

44. arrows, that was a quote... don't care where it came from it's a quoote and it refutes the claim mad

... by the poster who I responded to

I'm not an advocate for Obama, just don't like the overt hateraide

[Aerows]

93. When is it time to care?

I do care about our country, it's people and our direction. It doesn't stop just because I disagree with you.

[uponit7771]

98. I care about the quote, its in context and there's a video of him saying the exact words...

... i was refuting what the poster said.

This is important because Sanders camp has misrepresented proxy cred in the past and has a habit of it so when Sanders overstates a hand shake it looks like the same line of thinking.

[Aerows]

106. No, it wasn't in context

and no, there wasn't the full quote.

Do you actually know what "in context" means, or only when it helps you when you are making shit up as you are at present?

[uponit7771]

213. There's no other words the pope said that alters "nothing more"... you can make up some which

... it sounds like that's what people are attempting but gas lighting doesn't work with progressives

[arikara]

157. You are "refuting" with a lying blog that is misrepresenting the original article

How about reading the entire article that some of that bs was taken from instead of just parroting a lying blog that doesn't even link to its sources... which should tell you something right there.

The pertinent part of the original article, which is not all that difficult to comprehend:

They touched on the topics of climate change and foreign policy during the 6 A.M. chat at the pontiff's residence, held shortly before the pope departed for the Greek island of Lesbos to meet with refugees.

This is taken from the article in Haaretz, entitled Pope Suggests Critics of Sanders Meeting 'See a Psychiatrist'
http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.714722?utm_source=dlvr.it

Just in case you didn't get that, Bernie did not "lay in wait" for the pope, nor did he "ambush" the him in front of the bathroom or whatever other silliness you people are going on about. Bernie and the Pope had a 6 A.M. chat at the pontiff's residence. You people should be ashamed of yourselves and seriously, just quit making stuff up.

[uponit7771]

214. Please link and quote the Vatican saying it was a "five minute meeting". The pope said what I posted

... he said it was a greeting and nothing more, Sachs... a Sanders minion said it was a five minute meeting so before you go off looking I'll save you the trouble in that its not there

[DisgustipatedinCA]

186. You've been caught. You've been less than honest.

[uponit7771]

211. That's a claim and no proof

[RANGERMAN89]

207. The post stop because your lie has been discovered..

Hopefully you remember this feeling the next time you are trying to push another lie from camp Hillary.

[uponit7771]

212. No they haven't and there's no "lie" there, you're making things up and its a little scary

[passiveporcupine]

200. 'I'm not an advocate for Obama, just don't like the overt hateraide'

You mean like this overt hateraide over Bernie's trip to Rome?

I'm with you on the extreme hatred attacks on politicians, with no merit, but here you are participating in one.

[noiretextatique]

182. And a few others too

Absolutely have lost all objectivity and common sense. This one is still claiming the Clintons have a "hood pass." As much as some claim Bernie supporters are influenced by the RW, I know the opposite is true. The vehemence against the left is evidence of the success of the neos.

[passiveporcupine]

170. I hate to blow your mind here but

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-meets-bernie-sanders-vatican-confirms/#ixzz4633ABBnr

According to the economist Jeffrey Sachs, who has also been attending the conference which ends today, the courtesy visit was prearranged. “Last night the meeting was scheduled for 6am this morning,” Sachs said in comments to CNA. “They had the chance to talk for several minutes.” No photographs were taken of the encounter.

Pope Francis “thanked the senator formally for coming to the Vatican and for participating in the meeting at the Academy,” Sachs recounted, adding that the Pope explained that an earlier start than expected this morning meant he couldn’t greet the conference participants last night as has had been originally planned. “He thanked the senator for understanding and appreciated that he had come and participated,” Sachs said. “The senator wished him well on today's journey and the Pope wished Senator Sanders and his wife very well and then the meeting concluded and the Pope left for Greece.”

Yes it was a prearranged visit with the Pope. Bernie never lied about anything and all you Hillary people need to eat your words.

All along I kept saying lets wait till it happens before we call him a liar, but all along, every part of this trip he was called a liar. He never lied.

Can you stomach that? Feeling a little sick now? You should be.

[Aerows]

198. Thank you for that.

I appreciate it.

[passiveporcupine]

199. You are welcome!

[uponit7771]

215. That's a claim by Sachs, not The Vatican, I'll take the popes words over Sachs and Sanders any day

[passiveporcupine]

217. Sorry, but you are calling the Pope a liar

and yet you claim to be "taking his word".

I wouldn't disrespect the Pope that way.

[uponit7771]

218. Please link and quote the pope saying "multiple minutes"... tia

[passiveporcupine]

219. He was greeting a group of four people.

And that meant he spoke with them all, and it probably ran into multiple minutes. You know, he greets them and they respond to him. And then they all wish each other well and say farewell.

Please quote me where you heard the Pope say how long his greeting lasted.

[uponit7771]

221. So no link or even a quote, got it

[passiveporcupine]

222. Where's the quote I asked for?

I am not the one who is so desperate to make Bernie out a liar that he will throw Sachs and the Pope under the bus.

[passiveporcupine]

225. Now you are just repeating yourself

And that is an OCD trait, which I am a victim of, but even I have my limits.

You've got nothing and you still keep holding it up as a prize. BYE!

[Contrary1]

223. Don't bother with this one.

For someone so sure Hillary is gonna win it all, they are awfully worried about how Sanders spends his time.

[passiveporcupine]

224. Yeah, you are right. This one is a total waste of my time.

I've taken care of it now.

[cui bono]

230. Fixed the link for you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300456&sub=trans



.

[HooptieWagon]

7. They really have become unhinged over the Vatican conference.

I can understand them not wanting to talk about Hillarys $350K/plate dinner, but conjuring up all kinds of nefarious conspiracies about the Vatican visit is outright deranged. Well, I hope they stock up on butthurt creme, because the next few weeks will be rocky for them.

[Aerows]

191. The best was the one

that claimed he jumped out from behind a potted plant.

[cui bono]

8. They have become absolutely and completely unhinged over this.

They don't even know where to stand on it. Unfuckingbelievable!

They are surely in a tizzy!

.

[Aerows]

46. It isn't just "unhinged"

It is downright absolutely insulting. To the Pope. To Bernie Sanders. To Catholics. To Democratic voters.

This is injury, insult, intolerance and indignity.

[Hiraeth]

77. don't forget insanity. The Pope is right they need to seek professional help. They are unhinged.

[Aerows]

108. Hiraeth, I've never seen anything like it.

Had you told me that someone would malign a US Senator for going to the Vatican to discuss the world economy, I'd have thought they were a Republican, at best.

[Hiraeth]

111. Is it worse than '08? I think it is.

[Aerows]

115. Unfortunately

I believe so.

[Betty Karlson]

210. Sour grapes of jealousy - for all to see. eom

[boobooday]

12. The constant attempts at debunking do look petty.

And only serve to keep the subject in the public eye.

[restorefreedom]

13. every time i think i have seen the complete buffet of crazy

someone brings another platter

[Aerows]

86. That looks a heck of a lot

more tasty than the shit-sandwich they have been pushing at us all week.

[restorefreedom]

138. yes, the shit sandwiches were getting old.

time for some fresh cake...er, dinner!

[Aerows]

139. You rock, RF

Keep calm and Rock On!

[restorefreedom]

141. back atcha, aerows!

[Nay]

14. I've been staying out of most of this shit. I have even refused to be on several juries

because a good number of people on this board have lost their fucking minds. I check a couple of times a day for breaking news or an essay by Taibbi or something, but otherwise --- I can hardly wait for this idiotic election to be over. Over. Over. I barely even care who wins.

[Hissyspit]

18. I tried to for quite a while.

[Califonz]

17. Completely ignoring the Hillary group

has made DU bearable for the relatively short time I've been posting.

[Nay]

26. I have several completely whack people on ignore, I think I may put that

group on ignore, too. I've just had it.

[pdsimdars]

19. Someone said we are going through a period now where the truth can't be hidden

and it seems that people are no longer able to hide who they really are inside.

[Aerows]

196. Indeed.

You cannot.

[FlatBaroque]

20. CCTV image from Her Group

[Armstead]

21. The obse4ssive natire of it is getting into Twilight Zone territory

Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.
Sanders went to the Vatican. How Awful.




Must Know More.
Must Know More.
Must Know More.
Must Know More.
Must Know More.

[senz]

51. LOL!

Perfect.

[3hummingbirds]

73. Vatican visit

Love your post. Things are definitely getting insane.

[passiveporcupine]

24. They are in serious melt down mode.

If she wins the primary, how will they ever handle the GE?

[HooptieWagon]

33. Imagine when she loses the primary or GE.

It'll be a temper tantrum the likes of which we've never seen.

[Aerows]

48. If she is our candidate

and she loses the GE, we will all be lower than dirt, because we will be the ones that said "We told you so" about her inability to win the GE.

[grasswire]

53. I don't think that makes us lower, Aerows.

Truth always trumps hallucination.

[djean111]

59. You care what they think? I don't. n/t

[Aerows]

92. I have to care.

it is the future of our country.

[djean111]

94. What I meant was, of course, if Hillary is the nominee, and loses, they will call us lower than

dirt - and what they think of me does not matter. What would happen to us all matters.

[Aerows]

97. Oh, I should have assumed that was what you meant

I think highly of you, and you have been a great voice lately. Didn't mean to doubt you

We are in for a rough ride!

[djean111]

100. Thank you! and - same back at ya! n/t

[truebrit71]

112. Nope. We'd be the ones getting the blame for the loss...

Not their crappy and hopelessly flawed candidate.

You can take that to the damned bank...

[HooptieWagon]

132. Exactly.

[HassleCat]

27. I don't know why it bothers them.

But it surely does. A lot. The whole event will have zero bearing on the outcome of the primary. I guess it's another opportunity to point out that Bernie is a candidate outside the mainstream. I think we knew that months ago, but thanks.

[elleng]

34. because an outside neutral with humanitarian credentials provides approval,

and they can't live with that.

[senz]

49. True, and not just "neutral," but a recognized authority

because, like all rightwingers, they are authoritarian.

[elleng]

50. Right.

[Kalidurga]

36. I think it might have less than a zero outcome from the way they are acting.

Who knows. I no longer know any Catholics save one very very lapsed one.

[Myrina]

82. Everything about Sanders bothers them because

THEY are supposed to be the "cool kids club" for this election cycle & now there's another club at Democratic junior high that's getting more members than theirs, so they're acting out.

Complete & total childish immaturity.

[pat_k]

95. "New and stirring things are belittled because..."

"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled the humiliating question arises 'Why then are you not taking part in them?'"
-- H.G. Wells

And some more random quotes I that seem to fit the Sanders campaign:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511744422

[Odin2005]

144. Supporters of neoliberalism oppose any notion of a "moral economy".

They are blind worshipers of that golden calf on Wall Street called "free markets".

[Bjornsdotter]

29. I agree

You would think Jesus had dinner with Bernie with the way they are carrying on.

The gnashing of teeth, the parsing of the words "greet" and "meet", the endless travel worries on how Bernie would get to Italy on time, the concern on who was paying for the charter, the fact that he brought his family etc.

I've seen toddlers take disappointment better than many posters here.

[Aerows]

125. It was plain silly, Bjornsdotter

Last edited Sun Apr 17, 2016, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)

and is an embarrassment to this forum. (not you, that idiotic post)

[pdsimdars]

31. Maybe their faith in Hillary is finally being shaken

They have holding on so long and so tight, denying everything. . . maybe the fact that Bernie was invited by the Vatican makes it finally start to sink in that maybe they are on the wrong side of history.

Bernie keeps moving forward and for anyone with a good heart and eyes, you can see the grace that is flowing along with him. All it takes is a good heart.

[HooptieWagon]

37. No, they still think she is as pure as the driven snow.

What's shaken their hive is that some Puissant is standing in the path of their queens coronation...and not only is he not going away, he's attracting more and more support, and gaining stature in world opinion. It's 2008 v2.0, and that's making them insane.

[bjo59]

76. Find myself agreeing with you.

[Autumn]

35. This has made my day

I think his Holiness is right, some help is definitely in order.

[Aerows]

126. Indeed.

That was more than a Papal blessing on some folks calming down and seeking counsel!

[Scuba]

38. The panic is palpable at Camp Weathervane.

[Aerows]

55. It is not just palpable

All five senses are radiating that she's going to lose again, and a warp core breach is in progress.

[truedelphi]

39. I am still waiting for the HRC voters to announce that

Hillary [h2]IS [/h2]the Pope, setting the record straight once and for all.

[Aerows]

136. LOL! I have no doubt

that they are cooking up the books in such a way as to give that impression, but not completely because that would put them in a different tax code.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. It's because Bernie was asked to get involved in something

that had no downside at all. It's all good. The purpose of the conference was to discuss ways to promote economic justice throughout the world. Since economic justice is a good thing, or should be for liberals, there was nothing about the conference that could be credibly criticized. But for Hillary everything is about how to get more money and more votes. However, because the conference did not bring Bernie more money and will also probably not get him significantly more votes, the Hillary people couldn't relate to it. Hillary wouldn't travel overseas for a conference that wouldn't bring her a lot more money or a lot more votes; projecting this mindset to Bernie, they figured he had to be doing it for money/votes and therefore had to disparage and denigrate his presumed efforts as stupid, fruitless and/or dishonest.

They need to look up the meaning of "tikkun olam."

[Fairgo]

54. This is clinical cognitive dissonance

at the collective level. It may seem silly, but its actually quite dangerous.

[Aerows]

56. I agree.

Don't know what else to say.

[grasswire]

57. like lemmings?

or the Japanese people who thought occupying Americans were going to kill them so they threw their babies off cliffs?

[Aerows]

61. What in the Fuck?

Okay, actually lemmings didn't leap over clifts - they have a sociological framework that causes them to explosively breed based upon climate changes, then be consumed by the additional environmental surge in predators.

And then, dishonoring Japanese people ... I have no understanding of that, it sounds ugly as hell.

[Fairgo]

79. I vaguely recollect the story

And I had the same initial question...but as I recall, the event was triggered the intense propaganda in the village regarding their impending fate before the advancing US forces. The americans had been portrayed as ghoulish sub-humans who would rape, torture, pillage without mercy. So driven in fear and so bereft of power, they were driven collectively "over the edge". Killing the children was a mercy; their following suicide was the only honorable path left them.

This story is similar to the original proposition in that it is about the collective loss of identity in the context of overwhelming power. In my propositon the culprit was hate, in this story the culprit is fear. More research is needed on the story, but it was not meant as disrespect, just the depths to which a collective madness can go.

[Aerows]

104. I think I heard the same story, too

You go to the same mental places I do, it seems, but I think I understand what the post meant now.

I'm not always the brightest crayon in the box, but I definitely hang out with the craziest colors.

[Maedhros]

226. This kind of thing happened on Saipan and Okinawa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan

Emperor Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing.[15] Much of the community was of low caste, and there was a risk that live civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June, Hirohito sent out an imperial order encouraging the civilians of Saipan to commit suicide.[15] The order authorized the commander of Saipan to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat. General Hideki Tōjō intercepted the order on 30 June and delayed its sending, but it went out anyway the next day. By the time the Marines advanced on the north tip of the island, from 8–12 July, most of the damage had been done.[15] 1,000 Japanese civilians committed suicide in the last days of the battle to take the offered privileged place in the afterlife, some jumping from places later named "Suicide Cliff" and "Banzai Cliff".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

With the impending victory of American troops, civilians often committed mass suicide, urged on by the Japanese soldiers who told locals that victorious American soldiers would go on a rampage of killing and raping. Ryūkyū Shimpō, one of the two major Okinawan newspapers, wrote in 2007: "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up.[57] Thousands of the civilians, having been induced by Japanese propaganda to believe that U.S. soldiers were barbarians committing horrible atrocities, killed their families and themselves to avoid capture. Some of them threw themselves and their family members from the southern cliffs where the Peace Museum now resides.[58] However, having been told by the Japanese military that they would suffer terribly at the hands of the arriving Americans if they allowed themselves to be taken alive, Okinawans "were often surprised at the comparatively humane treatment they received from the American enemy."[59][60] Islands of Discontent: Okinawan Responses to Japanese and American Power by Mark Selden, notes that the Americans "did not pursue a policy of torture, rape, and murder of civilians as Japanese military officials had warned."[61] U.S. Military Intelligence Corps[62] combat translators such as Teruto Tsubota managed to convince many civilians not to kill themselves.[63] Survivors of the mass suicides blamed also the indoctrination of their education system of the time, when the Okinawans were taught to become "more Japanese than the Japanese," and were expected to prove it.[64]

[Fairgo]

229. That's the one.

Its a toxic mix of fear, caste, identity, power, and desparation...and can happen to any people

[Fairgo]

71. Pushed to extremes, dissonance becomes disassociation

Recipe for chaos...(1) convince a group that their leader is only path to salvation; (2) set them against a world that hates dear leader; (3) teach them to abandon rational thought; (4) give them a hate ritual to trance them, ramp them up; (5) give them an enemy to focus the hate; (6) get some blood on their hands...

Then expose dear leader as a fraud even they can't ignore.

The mob splinters like a glass hammer into a thousand jagged little victims. Do not stand in the way until the shrapnel stops flying.

[elleng]

66. VERY concerning.

Nothing like 'progress,' technology/social media and all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Yes it is.

There is another group that has engaged in this during this season...ah the summer will be fun

[Aerows]

110. Yes, and thank you.

Your efforts are only unappreciated by those who employ such underhanded crap.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. You welcome

[Lars39]

142. Or a form of trolling.

[senz]

62. I hope the Pope hears of this so he can grasp the level of depravity

that infects the enemies of the humble American man he shook hands with.

[elleng]

63. I almost hope he doesn't hear of it, senz.

[Aerows]

67. I wish we could stop

doing this to each other, as people, elleng.

[elleng]

70. So do I, Aerows,

but I do think it's part of the human condition. Kind of nature's joke, we'll do eachother/all of us, and the planet, in, due to 'progress' and our 'us vs them' compulsions.

[Aerows]

81. Saner voices have GOT to prevail, cher

We have to get saner voices in positions of leadership. Pope Frances is a start, let's get some more in positions of leadership.

[elleng]

89. Well, I hope so, dear Aerows, but I have little confidence.

'My' chosen candidates are rarely elected. Power does corrupt absolutely.

[Aerows]

99. I have enough swagger for both of us.

We just have to take it day by day, change it vote by vote every chance we get when talking to people. Even a mountain can be moved if you take it rock by rock, pebble by pebble, or stone by stone - whatever any can do, they move the mountain.

[elleng]

102. That's a great attitude, Aerows.

[Aerows]

116. Attitude

can become results. Not always, but at least you get what you put in.

[greiner3]

178. His minions

sure sent it up the line

[Aerows]

64. I hope the entire world

can heal when they realize what they are doing to each other.

[Agschmid]

68. I really hate that people are putting us all together on this...

[Aerows]

69. I am not pointing a finger at you, Agschmid

Last edited Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

But honestly, I haven't been a part of the fomenting, so don't point a finger at me, either.

I'll clear that right the hell up now.

[ibegurpard]

105. tough shit

Enjoy your petard

[Agschmid]

107. ...

[Marr]

179. You are literally the only Hillary fan I've noticed not going along with this insanity.

I'm sure there must be others, but none have had the decency to actually say anything.

This has been one of the disgusting episodes I've ever seen on this site, and while primary seasons are always filled with mudslinging around here, I've seen nothing that compares to this. This has just been repulsive, and I have zero respect left for the people who have engaged in it.

[w4rma]

206. Is quietly doing nothing about the insanity really "not going along with this insanity"?

Really, "but *I*'m not doing it, but I'll continue to support those that do it" isn't 'not doing it'.

[yallerdawg]

75. "What's good for the goose is good for the gander!"

Welcome to the Big Leagues!

30 years from now people will still be reminding us of Bernie's European vacation!

Irony can be a difficult sense.

[Aerows]

118. Well okay.

And I have to admit, that this post reveals me as "yellerdawg's meaning/point" challenged.

No idea.

[Zen Democrat]

181. A Yellow Dog Democrat would vote for a yellow dog before voting Republican.

[deathrind]

78. It is rather...

Astonishing... As I replied in another thread it is as if Bernie Ninja'd his way past Vatican Security and the Swiss Guard and ambushed the Pope as he came around the corner from the bathroom.

As bad as this is the scarier part is that it is infighting by people of the same party. To such an extent that the rift being created by this primary may be permanent. I have serious doubts that people will set aside emotion and come together to support whoever the Democratic nominee is in the GE and where that leaves us as a party is unknown territory. We have seen what infighting has done to the Republican Party.

I would like to see Sanders get the nomination but the more important issue here is seeing that either Sander or Hillary win the GE because the republicans have truly gone off the deep end in a very serious and scary way so I will support whoever gets the Democratic nomination.

[Aerows]

127. You would think that

Bernie was hiding in the damn toilet and jumped out of it with blue water cascading off of him to shake hands with the Pope.

[treestar]

83. Meh I just like the disconnect

Bernie associating himself with the misogynistic homophobe church is suddenly just fine. Suddenly the RC church is A-OK with the progressive left wing!

[Fairgo]

117. No snark until you finish your crow salad.

Here's a fork for you.

[questionseverything]

140. so are you saying hc has DENOUNCED the catholic church?

is this an announcement?

[Silver_Witch]

183. And her were it Hillary flags won!d be waved and

Voices o fchoir angels would proclaim her righteousness?

[840high]

84. Sane people are applauding that

one of our countryman was so honored.

[Aerows]

119. Exactly, as they should

The rest, well, on both sides of the political fence, D and R, there is ^ that going on.

[Maedhros]

227. Hillary supporters are behaving toward Bernie's Vatican invitation

the exact same way Republicans behaved toward Obama's Nobel Peace Prize.

[longship]

87. Birdie Sanders, and now the Pope.

Those poor, poor abused Hillary supporters.

Meanwhile, they have the highest number of banned DUers from their private club, the let's make shit up about Bernie's Vatican visit club. And a little finch threw them all onto their fainting couches.

Pitiful. Simply pitiful.

[Aerows]

152. Pitiful is putting it kindly, longship

And you mention the situation that shall not be named, too.

[annavictorious]

90. I'm sure this will all get sorted out on the Sunday morning shows

Pope ran is is already back at the Vatican with the refugee families that he brought back to Italy..

[MFM008]

91. you Sanders guys are losing your ability

to appreciate good snark or a joke. Ive seen some real zingers aimed at HRC and I appreciate a good elbow jab.
I got a post hidden for saying 'Sanders jumped Francis outside the bathroom', just a harmless jab, a jest.
Its sad when we lose sight of the real targets in the race, the GOP and have turned so badly on each other.

[Aerows]

124. A good snark?

A good joke?

------------>
Look over there
---------------------------------------->


It's the point you failed to make when you called derision, out and out slander including a dash of anti-semiticism by more than a few "snark" and jokes".

[CharlotteVale]

123. It really is one of the most comical things I've ever seen - especially

since it wasn't that long ago that the Clinton Foundation invited the pope to their big "Initiative" gala...maybe they're so mad because he declined the invitation, LOL.

I'm not a fan of the church or the pope, to put it mildly...but unlike with Hillary teaming up with the Family to push legislation that was anti woman, I'd never, ever have to worry about Bernie doing anything to hurt me regardless of his going to the Vatican. Just the opposite, he would stand up for my right to control my own body no matter where he was.

[Aerows]

128. The Pope DECLINED a Clinton Foundation invitation

That is what has really chapped their asses.

Elton John also told them to piss off.

[HooptieWagon]

133. Pope couldn't afford the cover charge.

Doesn't matter who you are, gotta pay up to be in the Queen's posse.

[Aerows]

134. Apparently.

That is what has them crying for diaper rash cream.

[enigmatic]

143. That's really what it's about

It's a clear invitation for Sanders and a clear rejection for Clinton from The Vatican in their eyes. It's driving them insane.

It really has no sway in the Primary but the optical (like Birdie Sanders) are unbeatable, and Hillary hasn't had one of those moments, let alone 2 like Sanders.

[Aerows]

220. The Birdie moment

was absolutely unbeatable. It was genuinely amazing.

[840high]

131. +100

[morningfog]

130. They are hilarious.

[Aerows]

148. You have been rocking in the background on this

and it is time to say

MORNINGFOG ROCKS.

I didn't mean to go overboard but this was a nice moment where I could tell you how highly I think of you.

anyway, let everything

PROCEED

[Contrary1]

145. Kick and rec

[beam me up scottie]

146. Kicked and HIGHLY recommended!

Camp Weathervane's collective panties are so bunched I don't think they'll ever get over it.

[Aerows]

147. I have never seen the like.

It is absolutely a conflagration.

[Bonobo]

149. It has truly been breathtakingly petty. nt

[Aerows]

153. It has.

Disgusting.

[desmiller]

155. The level of insecurity among them is extremely ridiculous.

They know that Hillary is in deep shit, so they're creating stuff to "distract" others away from Hillary's problems.


#ToneDownForWhat

[Aerows]

184. It *has* been

a stunning display of insecurity, desmiller, and on more levels than one!

[Fawke Em]

156. In their zeal to downplay Bernie as an international leader...

and let's be honest, that's what bothered them, they thought Clinton had him beat on that issue, even if her foreign policy has done NOTHING but create chaos, they overlooked one of the most poignant moments of his visit.

[libodem]

192. Wow

Impressed!

[Aerows]

203. And you, my friend Fawke Em

got to the heart of the matter.

[pinstikfartherin]

158. It was funny at first...

but it quickly just became sad. This place is an absolute dumpster fire at this point. So many DUers are off their fucking rockers, and I feel like if I block the users that are constantly shit posting every day, I wouldn't have anything to read on here.

It's liking reading comments on facebook. One glance and you just nope the hell out of there.

[Major Hogwash]

159. Strangest reaction to the Pope I have ever seen here at the DU.

As if somehow they are afraid of the Pope.

Very odd comments, remarks, and reactions.

[Aerows]

160. It boils down to one simple point.

Hillary Clinton wants to BE something.

Bernie Sanders wants to DO something.

[Lordquinton]

161. This is why Tom Lerher retired

[Aerows]

165. I don't particularly

find this funny.

Get your joy, I guess, if you do.

[Lordquinton]

168. Sorry, I understand your mood right now

I agree with you 100%, Tom Lerher retired as a political satirist because Kissenger won the Nobel peace prize, he claimed that he could never top that. Clinton supporters do it almost daily. (If I had a token for every time they one up themselves)

[Aerows]

171. If I knew what that meant

I'd probably be a Han Solo.

I'm too Jedi for that.

[rufus dog]

163. Been here since 2007, hands down this is the lamest meme I have seen with multiple posts on DU

There is some lame B.S., posted all the time, but never have I seen so many threads and posts that bluntly are embarrassing.

[Aerows]

164. Well, what should a person do?

Let this bullshit slander go without saying a damn word? I'm not built that way.

[rufus dog]

167. I'm all for defending against the B.S.

I am just shocked at the number of HRC supporters who are just going out of their way to take shots at Bernie. In addition some of the posts are from people who I thought had a great deal of common sense. The taxes issue is ridiculous enough but this Papal Visit is just batshit crazy insane, to a level expected at Free Republic, Hannity.com, or Discussionist.

If I were new here I would assume they are paid trolls, but they aren't, they are Democrats that are so invested in HRC winning that they can't even comprehend how badly they are behaving.

[Aerows]

169. I agree with you

It appears that you are the first person on the scene of a train wreck that has clarity.

[Fumesucker]

174. A solid contingent of the 2016 Hillarians hated her guts in 2008...

Said stuff just as bad against her then as they are against Bernie now.

I'm to the point I think some people enjoy being assholes and stirring the pot and that's really all they get out of it.

[QC]

180. I think you're right. It has little or nothing to do with the candidates.

The same people are the nasty primary warriors every time. It's not about politics for them--it's about having a place where they can be shitty to people without consequences. These very convenient primary season "amnesties" provide them with that.

[passiveporcupine]

172. Just in case anyone doesn't see what I posted above,

According to the economist Jeffrey Sachs, who has also been attending the conference which ends today, the courtesy visit was prearranged. “Last night the meeting was scheduled for 6am this morning,” Sachs said in comments to CNA. “They had the chance to talk for several minutes.” No photographs were taken of the encounter.

He said the senator “thanked Pope Francis for his leadership on the moral economy and his leadership on climate change and he described how the Pope's leadership on climate change has made a vast difference in accelerating action on climate change.” He also expressed his gratitude to Pope Francis “for all of his moral leadership and his brave stances.”

Pope Francis “thanked the senator formally for coming to the Vatican and for participating in the meeting at the Academy,” Sachs recounted, adding that the Pope explained that an earlier start than expected this morning meant he couldn’t greet the conference participants last night as has had been originally planned. “He thanked the senator for understanding and appreciated that he had come and participated,” Sachs said. “The senator wished him well on today's journey and the Pope wished Senator Sanders and his wife very well and then the meeting concluded and the Pope left for Greece.”

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/pope-francis-meets-bernie-sanders-vatican-confirms/#ixzz4633ABBnr

Bernie never lied.

[Aerows]

193. He did not lie.

And thank you, my friend passiveporcupine, for stating it plainly.

I'm beginning to think .. (okay, not beginning, really because nobody is stupid) .. that H-supporters distort things for their own amusement.

Do you suppose at some point that they might need some "Preparation H"?

The butthurt is getting bad.

[silvershadow]

173. Gets a hearty K&R for the title alone. nt

[Aerows]

187. I just couldn't put it any other way.

It's unreal. Just look at what is being posted TODAY.

It has descended even FURTHER.

[silvershadow]

188. I honestly believe the wheels came off the bus a long time ago. I think at least a couple of them

are starting to figure it out. Win, Lose, or Draw in New York, we are headed to convention, and (ever-so-possibly with a win).

[Aerows]

189. Example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1762654

"Bernie hid behind a potted plant" because he's a ninja and can infiltrate the Pope's private residence. Hasn't everybody just strolled right on in to see the Pope?

Even the Pope himself said that people trying to read something into his meeting with Bernie Sanders should seek a psychiatrist.

Some *ARE* starting to get a clue. The rest are just shit-stirring just to shit-stir. They did it against Hillary Clinton in 2008, and we see where that got them. Now they are doing it against Bernie Sanders in 2016.

[Kalidurga]

197. Another kick for good times. Because tomorrow will be a different poo flinging party.

[Aerows]

205. I have tried to the best of my ability

to be a straight shooter, plain speaker, though I guess sometimes I get caught up in using big words.

Regardless, I have always done my best to say exactly what is on my mind without obfuscation.

[pdsimdars]

177. It's that one, simple truth that is berning their souls, and that is that may actually be

supporting the WRONG candidate.

As Bernie simply moves forward and all the support miraculously pops up around him from every quarter, that simple truth is starting to make itself felt in their hearts and minds, that Bernie is the good guy, the right guy. . and, for some reason, Hillary really isn't.

It may take time, but it will continue like this, more and more.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

185. Someone turned the kitchen light on them in the middle of the night.

And they scattered just like...just like you'd think they would.

[KPN]

202. It's breathtaking. Now, they are moving on to losing shit over

the $ bill throwing.

[Aerows]

204. I will say this

and I don't say it with pride, I don't say it with relish, I say it with sadness.

This is *deplorable* and you truly need to get over yourselves if this is how you think you will win an election.

[Warren DeMontague]

208. I think it is panic.

Like I said, I wonder what the internal polling says about NY. They are not behaving like people confident of a solid win.

[Aerows]

209. It could be panic

It could be hubris crashing into concrete block.

You never know.

[Art_from_Ark]

216. It is truly mind-boggling