Sanders on New York: So what if I lose?

[geek tragedy]

Bernie Sanders’ path to the nomination has narrowed to a sliver, and Tuesday’s primary in New York looks like it will squeeze it further. But the Vermont senator was defiant as he made the TV rounds on the eve of the crucial contest. His message: So what if I lose?

Sanders’ campaign in recent days has downplayed the importance of winning the popular vote in the delegate-rich state, pointing to Clinton's once gargantuan advantage in the polls shrinking to single digits by some counts.

"Those are the public polls. The bottom line is, let's look at the real poll tomorrow," Sanders told NBC's "Today" in the first of three in-studio interviews Monday morning. "Generally speaking, polling has underestimated how we do in elections."

...

"Here’s the truth: we don’t have to win New York on Tuesday, but we have to pick up a lot of delegates," campaign manager Jeff Weaver wrote. "This poll shows that if we keep fighting, we may actually have a chance to do both."

Despite his day-long detour to the Vatican last Friday, Sanders maintained that his campaign was focused on winning New York but also laid out several preemptive explanations for why it might not. Among them: the fact that independent voters cannot participate in Tuesday's closed Democratic primary.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/bernie-sanders-new-york-222077

Weaver is correct. He doesn't have to win New York, just like he doesn't have to be the nominee.

[XemaSab]

1. If it's even close

it's bad news for Hillary.

She got 55% of the vote in the 2000 senate election.

If she were to get 55% tomorrow, that would imply that almost half the people who voted for her in 2000 are no longer supporting her.

[geek tragedy]

3. Sanders is the one who needs the win, not her.

A ten point win for her is a backbreaker for him.

Her goal for the month of April is end Sanders's status as a credible candidate to become the nominee.

[XemaSab]

5. I think we're heading for a contested convention

unless Hillary gets some crazy momentum going.

[geek tragedy]

9. contested in the way that Bambi contested a piece of ground vs Godzilla.

If Sanders wants to displace the 2014 Brazil World Cup Team for the most spectacular public humiliation, I guess he could try to persuade Democratic party insiders to steal the nomination from the Democrat who won the voting.

We'll see how much he values his committee seniority in the Senate.

[Human101948]

67. You really don't understand the situation do you? He is needed by Dems in the Senate...

He has been a much more reliable vote than the jerks known as Blue Dog Democrats (aka Republicans).

[geek tragedy]

68. If he's so reliable then he won't try to claim a nomination when he lost the voting

To do so would be an insult

[Human101948]

70. That's a non sequitur

can't you concentrate on ahything?

[geek tragedy]

72. if he's a reliable ally then he will respect the votes of primary voters.

if not, then he will have been exposed as a third party saboteur

[hack89]

10. How can it be contested? One candidate will have more pledged delegates than the other.

that person will win on the first vote at the convention. Contested conventions only come about when there are more than two viable candidates and none can get a majority.

[Recursion]

18. I don't see why so many people have a problem grasping that

Our convention will be over on the first ballot; it basically has to be.

[silvershadow]

56. Miss Cleo? Is that you? nt

[hack89]

61. Are you suggesting some blatantly undemocratic process

like having all the super delegates ignore the will of the voters and giving the nomination to the candidate with the fewer pledged delegates?

Because that is the only way Bernie would win.

[hack89]

64. The super delegates are going to vote for the candidate with the most pledged delegates

that plus the pledged delegates will be enough for Hillary. They will not steal the primary from the person with the majority of delegates.

[hack89]

73. All of Hillary's super delegates in 2008 voted for Obama on the first vote

with her complete and total blessing. Breaking ranks right now is irrelevant - they will all vote for the candidate with the most pledged delegates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. By 6/7 he will be over 300 delegates and 3,000,000 popular votes behind.

I will just let the sentient posters among us make their own inferences.

[workinclasszero]

17. "By 6/7 he will be over 300 delegates and 3,000,000 popular votes behind."

And diehard Sanders fans are clinging to the fiction of a contested convention??? WOW!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. That's a conservative estimate./nt

[workinclasszero]

29. Sweet!

[Beacool]

42. No, we won't.

Whichever candidate has the most pledged delegates will be the nominee. Just as it happened in 2008.

[salinsky]

53. This is an example of the type of thinking that occurs ...

... when a candidate refuses to shoot straight with his supporters.

[BreakfastClub]

59. Yep, Sanders isn't doing his supporters any good by misleading them into thinking he

is somehow going to magically win the nomination. Sad.

[Human101948]

69. Not at all...even if he loses he will have advanced liberal policies by giant steps...

something that Hillary does in itsy bitsy teeny weeny incremental baby steps.

She can't do anything bold, she's fighting a tsunami of negatives--

[bigtree]

7. that's nonsense

...either Sanders has a big win and pulls the majority of delegates, or the percentage he needs from the few remaining states rises.

Hillary's percentage needed would fall, in that case, because of the dwindling number of opportunities Sanders has to catch up and the vanishing number of delegate rich states.

The spin about the 2000 election is a new one, but just as baffling. You can only hope the actual campaign doesn't use the same rose-colored glasses, because you need to gotv to win big tomorrow.

[workinclasszero]

16. Hillary will be fine if its close because she is way ahead in delegates already but

ANY win in NY for her is a deathblow for Sanders campaign!

[Renew Deal]

38. If she gets 55% tomorrow Bernie falls much further behind.

[Zynx]

39. If he doesn't win tomorrow he's done.

[uponit7771]

44. Podium Bird tell you that too?

[yardwork]

79. Podium Bird!

[Silver_Witch]

2. Bernie has taught me to look and see what is happening...

Last edited Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)

He is bringing change in a way the DNC will never understand. I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. It is my vote and I shall use it as I will! Bernie has changed me personally from someone willing to hold her nose and vote for crappy candidate out of fear of what might be. From now on I vote for the candidate that EARNS my vote!

[Shadowflash]

35. +1000

nt

[Beacool]

45. Foolish and shortsighted choice, but it's your prerogative.

I would vote for Mickey Mouse if he was the nominee, anything to stop Trump or Cruz.

[Silver_Witch]

83. It is you that is shortsighted my friend

You may vote for Mickey if you like. But to say I would vote for anyone to stop (fill-in name here) is scary to me. We have to vote for good candidates no mor settling for the lessor of two evils!

[brush]

55. Read this. He's not so pure

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.cy8bg4j7g

[Silver_Witch]

84. Your link is broken can't see...

To see "secrets" about Bernie. Never said he was perfect, but he is not a Hawk with Kissinger in his pocket as his best advisor, nor will he trade abortion rights with Republicans to open negotiations. Nor is he a bible thumper!!!

[brush]

85. Here it is. You might have to copy and paste it in the url field.

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.c2hx0ru3u

[BreakfastClub]

62. Bernie is not a guru, and he is not a god. His "teachings" are

not divine information he has shared with you. Vote for whomever you like, but don't believe for a second that Bernie is a wise sage. He's not. He's a politician who is in the back pocket of the NRA.

[Silver_Witch]

82. Oh please back pocket of the NRA

Now that is one that made me laugh! He has a D- rating

I don't believe in any god my friend so I don't think Bernie is one either. Save the hyperbole for some young kid that is swayed by such silliness!

Have a nice day!

[wendylaroux]

4. Don't you see? Bernie has opened sooooo many eyes to the fact

that hc and other establishment dnc robots are inline with the other side of the isle.[how to help the 1%]

People are saying no more of the same old shit. So have fun with the

crooks,good luck with it.

[brush]

57. Read this and re-open your eyes. He's not so pure

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.cy8bg4j7g

[CrowCityDem]

6. Step 1: Run. Step 2: Lose all the big states. Step 3: ___ Step 4: Win!

[geek tragedy]

8. Looks like he's running the Rubio playbook down the stretch, a big second place win for him tomorrow

[firebrand80]

14. Step 3 is a moveon.org petition nt

[workinclasszero]

20. Salon and Huff Post will be pushing it too!

[Beacool]

46. What would they petition???

[firebrand80]

49. Threaten the SDs with primary challenges nt

[Beacool]

50. On what grounds????

There are only two candidates. The one who has the most pledged delegates at the convention will be the nominee. End of story.

[firebrand80]

52. Who needs grounds? nt

[NCTraveler]

12. When Sanders and Weaver are both saying their path to the nomination....

is to subvert the will of the people, this is the only attitude they can have.

[geek tragedy]

13. part of me wants him to try and contest it

just so he can reap the consequences

[NCTraveler]

15. Some of my fellow Clinton supporters have been telling me that is who he is since the beginning.

I have fought back on that. As we have gone on I have seen they were correct. I really don't think Sanders and Weaver could shock me at this point.

[LexVegas]

19. What a delusional bunch. Jesus. nt

[PufPuf23]

21. It is not too late for you to switch your support from Clinton to Sanders, geek tragedy.

You will feel better about yourself and have a positive effect on the nation and Democratic Party.

Sanders is going to do better in NY than the polls say and what you are selling at DU.

[geek tragedy]

22. My wife and I are voting for Hillary early tomorrow morning nt

[PufPuf23]

27. Who do you plan to vote for in the general election should Sanders be the Democratic nominee? eom

[geek tragedy]

28. sanders won't be the nominee nt

[PufPuf23]

37. Probably not but still in realm of possibilty.

Last year few had considered that Sanders would be a serious candidate for POTUS.

Now he is the favored candidate of some large demographics, wins primaries, and draws enthusiastic crowds.

Sanders has a net unfavorable rating of +9 with potential American voters while Clinton is -23.

Clinton was my least favorite candidate in 2008 and her once front-running campaign self-destructed.

I backed into Sanders in 2016 and am glad; Clinton did not learn in 2008 and has made similar mistakes.

I may end up voting for Clinton next Fall but will be angry and bear a grudge.

[Agschmid]

32. Loyalty oaths suck. Just FYI.

[PufPuf23]

40. You would probably feel good too if change your supoport from Clinton to Sanders.

I have been loyal as registered and voting member of Democratic Party since 1972 when aged into vote.

I became a staunch anti-war Democrat in 1968 age 15. The mother of my roommate at boarding school was the great liberal and anti-war Democrat Maya Miller of Nevada. She took us to an anti-war rally for the Presidio group at the Marina Green in San Francisco. RIP Eric and Maya.

Loyalty oaths do suck especially the ones tied to $ and influence within the Democratic party like many of the super-delegates, that great non-democratic method by establish to dampen power of the grass root democrats.

[Agschmid]

41. I feel fine, thank you.

I voted for, and helped Sanders get elected in VT to Senate. I currently support Clinton, and will most likely continue to do so during the primary process.

[PufPuf23]

43. And that is your choice. Hillary Clinton will be less successful and

less transformative than POTUS Obama; we will at best tread water as Clinton is for the status quo.

I like Sanders for two reasons:

(1) Sanders is transformative. The transformation I support is to get neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism out of the Democratic Party and out of the nation and world. The tide change will take other POTUSs and other pols and a generation in time.

(2) Hillary Clinton has character issues. I do not think Clinton will be disqualified by the character issues because politicians and the wealthy appear to have automatic forgiveness in our not so vibrant democracy.

I respect your decision and that your final decision is some what a gray area.

Sanders could lose my support; Clinton could never earn my support back but could likely get my vote back in the general election (but I will be angry and bear a grudge as I already do regards the Democratic establishment).

[Beacool]

47. In NYC it'll be a beautiful election day.

Today is glorious, already 75 and going to 78.

[The Old Lie]

48. Nice to know it's voided by two votes for Bernie

by my in-laws, and my brother-in-law.

[Capt. Obvious]

24. Oh but he was a Sanders supporter

until those dastardly Berniebros forced him to jump ship.

[PufPuf23]

31. I have never met a BernieBros.

I think that a BernieBros is sort of like a unicorn to some Clinton supporters.

[brush]

60. Read this about the Sanders campaign

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.cy8bg4j7g

[PufPuf23]

71. Your link goes to medium.com but not to the article.

In fact, I cannot find the article you cite but will read if you can find and make a link.

Here is a link an article at medium.com:

https://medium.com/jeremy-keeshin/why-i-m-voting-for-bernie-sanders-and-you-should-too-af4dec9c91bb#.fouwui8u2

[brush]

75. I'll read yours if you read this

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.ewct6mrcq

[ecstatic]

23. So what if he can't win the blue states (the states he says matter)?

[geek tragedy]

26. he'll always have Kansas and Alaska nt

[griffi94]

33. And Oklahoma don't forget Oklahoma

He won Oklahoma.

[geek tragedy]

34. that great bastion of progressivism nt

[griffi94]

36. Yep

Almost as progressive as Utah

[Haveadream]

30. Or the Yuge swing states like Florida and Ohio

[cannabis_flower]

51. Even if he loses we win

Hillary started out as a centrist and he has pushed her to the left. If she wins we need to keep her feet to the fire.

[kennetha]

54. Name one policy that Hilary holds now

that she didn't hold at the start of this campaign?

[cannabis_flower]

74. Being against the TPP for one

[firebrand80]

58. If you lose, you don't get to be President

Unless, of course, you're saying that's not your actual goal, which wouldn't surprise me at all.

[apnu]

65. Bernie has already won.

He knew form the outset he had a tiny chance to pull this off. But his goal, as it always has been, to drag the conversation left, that he's accomplished and then some. He's come so far and he's done better than anybody ever imagined and he's defined the whole primary with his presence, words and actions, including the Republicans. It is astounding what kind of an effect he's had on national politics.

So yeah, NY doesn't matter. He'll keep on being Bernie and keep on doing what he does, and he'll keep on dragging the conversation left and come Philly in July, if he's not the winner, he's still won all the same.

[redstateblues]

77. It will be interesting to see if Bernie

Uses his popularity, after he loses the primary, to help us win back the house and senate in the midterms. Somehow I have my doubts.

[apnu]

78. I doubt that too.

He is an indepentent after all. That is a different mindset from a party member.

[yardwork]

80. That's not helpful, then.

I'm living in a state that is being eaten alive by the Republicans. Down ticket races matter. A lot.

[apnu]

81. Yes they do!

No doubt about it. But Bernie has done little for the down ticket races so far. I think his years as an indepentent makes it difficult for him to think in party terms. To connect with different regions that have different concerns.

True, Brenie's main focus on poverty connects with most Americans, but not having the support of a national party to work toward that goal means he would spin his wheels before we even get to talking about Republicans.

Bernie must make in-roads with Democrats. He must convince them that he will help them, not the other way around. It is not that his meaasge does not resonate with Democrats and liberals, it is that he comes from the outside like an invader, not a helper. While that is a breath of fresh air for progressives,it makes party insiders and loyalists cringe. If he wants to use Democratic assets to win in November, he needs those insiders desperatly.

Convince the establishment that his goals are their goals and everything will fall into place. He has not managed to do that so far, look at all the union endorsements Hillary has collected, despite the fact that Bernie's brand of socialism lines up nicely with unions. They should be falling all over themselves for Bernie, but that hasn't happened.

[Surya Gayatri]

76. K & R most enthusiastically.

Well, not much time left for the BSers to pull it out.