Bernie Sanders bashes New York election law

[Dem2]

Bernie Sanders on Monday slammed the election law that will prevent independent voters from casting votes in New York's primary on Tuesday.

"It's bad New York state election law. What it says to the many hundreds of thousands or more independents who would like to vote tomorrow for me or for anybody else -- they' can't participate," the presidential candidate said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that that's wrong and that does hurt us because we win independent voters about two to one," Sanders added, in effect lowering expectations a little for the outcome.

Only registered Democrats and Republicans can participate in their respective party's primary on Tuesday in New York. Every state sets its own rules, and one of the reasons why Sanders has performed well in states that hold caucuses is because independents are usually allowed to participate. A CBS News battleground tracker poll released Sunday found that Clinton has a 10-percentage-point lead ahead of Sanders in New York 53 to 43 percent.

Asked how bad the Democratic primary process is in terms of delegate allocation, Sanders said, "I have serious problems with it. You know, this is the establishment, folks."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-bashes-new-york-election-law/

[TCJ70]

1. Having the deadline to switch parties 6 months before the primary...

...is ridiculous. Why can a new voter register up to two weeks prior but party changes end half a year ago?

[TexasBushwhacker]

73. Yeah, I find the double standard troubling

I realize that it's to prevent party raiding, but it doesn't make sense that it's so much longer.

[hrmjustin]

2. Independents in NY are warned they can not vote in primaries when they register to vote.

They were warned six months ago to change if they wanted to.

Sorry but we are not changing the rules for Bernie Sanders.

[The Old Lie]

9. You decided to disenfranchise the independents six months before primaries?

Nice to know where your priorities lie.

[hack89]

13. These laws have been in place for decades

one reason they do it is to protect the smaller parties - NY is one of the few states with thriving and viable small political parties.

[MineralMan]

24. Closed primaries are the long-time rule in New York.

You didn't know that? Sorry.

[Renew Deal]

28. I love when people that don't live in NY and have no idea how NY works

criticize

[Buzz Clik]

33. "Disenfranchise". Laughable.

Q: Are you a Democrat?
A: No.
Q: Do you realize you will not be able to vote in the GOP or Dem primaries?
A: Who cares? I do not belong to either party.

[floriduck]

53. But what about those voters who've had their registration changed without their

approval or knowledge? They should be able to get that corrected and vote. Otherwise, it's just another example of suppression.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

66. ^^THIS^^ n/t

[hrmjustin]

71. Absolutely!

[LiberalFighter]

96. If that is true. Yes.

Details are needed to confirm it. All of it should be traceable.
Was it changed and when was it changed?
How was it changed? Paper form? (Confirm Signature) Online form? (Likely no recourse) or BMV? (Did clerk fail to perform their job properly?)
Do they have a history of voting in Democratic primaries in the past? Meaning were they Democratic until the recent change?

[LiberalFighter]

94. Only Sanders finds a problem with New York election law.

There weren't complaints about it in previous Presidential elections.

[CrowCityDem]

3. As a 'native New Yorker', he should have known this and worked accordingly.

[Dem2]

6. :)

[merrily]

81. Did he say he didn't know it?

[CrowCityDem]

87. No, but since he did, he should have been more active in Sep. and Oct. to get people switched.

[merrily]

88. While he was trying to raise money and DWS purposely held off the first debate?

And media was either ignoring him or crapping on him?

Great point.

[IamMab]

82. He stashed his NY election rules with all his subway tokens.

[merrily]

84. While Hillary got carpal tunnel trying to use the card? Yeah, that was so much better.

[IamMab]

91. Average New Yorkers struggle with the subway card the same way every day.

At least her information about the subway system wasn't 13 years out-of-date though. That probably did more damage to Sanders than his empty answers about reforming the banks.

[merrily]

92. Um, no they don't struggle that same way.

Here's the difference: Bernie actually rode that subway before this campaign. She never did.

If people are so clueless as be surprised that Bernie has lived in Vermont for decades, too bad. If they are more pissed that he didn't keep up with their tokens vs. card news than they are that she is a corporatist,

[leftynyc]

93. The nonsense about the metrocard

LOST Bernie votes. REAL NYers have trouble with them every single day so that may play in places that have never even seen a metrocard but it made NYers roll their eyes and say big fucking deal.

[wendylaroux]

4. And of course Bernie is right again.

just think if Bernie would have been treated the same as h,this whole time,

Bernie would have already locked this primary up.

[randome]

11. Just think if Republicans were welcomed to vote in our Primaries. Or Green Party members could.

Or the Tea Party. Why have parties, right? They're all the same. (No. They're not.)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[wendylaroux]

55. whatever you say bub

[RandySF]

17. Yeah

Just think if only white millenials were allowed to vote.

[wendylaroux]

57. yes,but just think if only black millennials could.

[merrily]

86. She was taking fairness and you made it about racial division. She's right; you're wrong.

The most dramatic divider in Bernie's supporters is not race, but age.

BTW, has BLM approved racial justice Hillary's platform yet? It approved Bernie's last summer.

[DrDan]

90. we would, no doubt, have less whining . . .

[Nye Bevan]

5. When Bernie did his party switcheroo to run for president,

maybe he should have done a better job of reminding his supporters to also join the party before the deadline?

[timlot]

7. Seems like whining to me. Stop labeling people...

Dems, Ind, Repub, etc. Go out and change individuals mind.

[DCBob]

8. Bernie going to be doing alot of bashing in the next several weeks..

All of these are closed.. MD, PA, CT, DE, KY, OR, NM, NJ, DC.

[MineralMan]

25. Yup. It could be interesting this week and next.

I'll be watching the results.

[DCBob]

32. Indeed. It will likely get ugly for the Bernie team in the next few weeks.

Not sure at what point they finally give it up.

[MineralMan]

36. Well, I can wait for those primary elections and see

how they turn out. We only have to wait for two more days to learn how New York goes. Some might stay up late on Tuesday, but I'll wake up to the results and start my day knowing how the candidates did.

Then, I only have to wait another week to learn about other important states with large delegate counts.

The results will be coming soon. I can wait for them. Once next Tuesday is over, I think things will be a lot clearer for all of us, for better or worse, depending on who you support.

[DCBob]

38. I will up be late tomorrow night and celebrating with other like-minded DUers here.

[MineralMan]

39. I'm an early riser, so staying up for primary

results screws up my day. I stay up for general elections, though, and just write the next day off. But not for primaries. The next morning is soon enough for me. We still have a way to go in this primary season. I can't get all anxious about individual primaries, really.

[DCBob]

42. Sounds good..

[Skink]

29. CA open

That is if you didn't fall for the American Independant party.

[DCBob]

31. Right.. that's a crazy development there.

By the time we get to CA I suspect Hillary's lead will be huge.. probably around 300+ delegates so CA wont really matter in determining the nominee.

[SFnomad]

58. It will be CA that will clinch the majority of pledged delegates for Secretary Clinton n/t

[DCBob]

65. Yes, that is probably correct .

Good point.

[SFnomad]

68. I said "pledged delegates" ... which is no different than Obama in 2008

Nobody had a majority of total delegates in 2008 after the states primaries either, but Obama did have a majority of pledged delegates and he had enough committed Superdelegates for the nomination.

Secretary Clinton will be no different. Also, because of her Superdelegate commitments, she will have enough total delegates to clinch the nomination before CA.

[DCBob]

70. Right.. I just corrected my post.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Skink]

61. Yes please disenfranchise CA now

[DCBob]

63. CA has never played much of a role in the nominating process.

Their late primary date is unfortunate.

[HughLefty1]

75. Even so the millennials are excited to register to vote in CA!

Bernie is having a huge impact in CA. The young voters are engaged which can only be a good thing going forward.

[DCBob]

80. Agreed.. that's good thing for the future.

[SFnomad]

76. In 2000, 2004 and 2008, California was part of Super Tuesday

Since then, they've been back in June.

[DCBob]

78. Oh really.. I didnt know that.

Thanks for that.

[SFnomad]

97. Yeah, in 2008, there were so many states in it, they were calling it "Super Duper Tuesday"

I looked it up and the Democrats had just more than 1/2 the available pledged delegates determined on that day and the Republicans just under 1/2 ...I think it's the closest thing we've had to a single National Primary Day.

Since then, the states aren't front loading the calendar nearly as much.

[DemocracyDirect]

10. Stop crying Hillary folks...

If the shoe was on the other foot, that is if the independents were going for Hillary...

... all the Hillary supporters here would not only be crying to allow independents to vote...

... they would have changed the rules already.

Stop lying too.

[DCBob]

19. We are celebrating a probable big win tomorrow.. you guys are the ones complaining and crying.

[DemocracyDirect]

37. Because we don't like disenfranchisement?

Well you are on the wrong side of history.

Good for you.

[DCBob]

40. Any citizen and resident of NY state can register and vote in the general election.

To vote in the NY primary a person need to register with a party. Its not that complicated.

[DemocracyDirect]

43. It's the sixth months before hand requirement that is the problem.

It's not the complicated.

Put your head back in the sand.

[DCBob]

48. I suspect those who made that rule wanted to minimize any potential shenanigans..

from members of the opposing parties. Although I think 6 months is a bit extreme but I do agree with the general concept.

Thanks for "head in sand" insult by the way. That's a sure sign your argument lacks substance.

[DemocracyDirect]

51. So you agree with my argument and then say that my argument lacks substance.

Six months is ridiculous. Independents would barely have an opportunity to know any candidates at that point. You know I'm right.

A month ahead could be argued reasonably.

Your first quip of "Its not that complicated." is just as insulting and perhaps even more so.

[DCBob]

54. No I dont agree. There is no disenfranchisement.

Each state has a right to make their own voting rules.. voters need to follow them... even if a bit difficult.

[DemocracyDirect]

60. You agreed that 6 months was too long.

And even you can see how that might work against a candidate with no name recognition; and when debates were severely limited early on.

If not it's the head-sand thing again. Sorry in advance.

[DCBob]

62. No.. I just said it does seem a bit extreme but that's the states call.

I dont know all the issues they were considering. Regardless its their call and the voters responsibility to follow those rules.. end of story.

[DemocracyDirect]

64. That's not the end of the story.

State parties can also set the rules to favor the establishment candidate.

But I understand why for you it is the end of the story.

[RandySF]

12. The excuses have already begun.

If Bernie's supporters are the high-information voters as portrayed on DU, there shouldn't have been any problems. Why didn't the Sanders campaign anticipate it? I thought he's still a "New Yorker".

[NurseJackie]

14. If someone wants to participate in party activities, namely...

If someone wants to participate in party activities, namely... the act of choosing the PARTY'S nominee... then they should join the fucking party. It's just that simple.

For a group of people who fancy themselves as being "politically active" and "involved with the process", it certainly seems to me that they don't know as much as they think they do (or maybe they're just not as involved as they claim they are.)

Registering in the middle of an election cycle? No particular candidate to "motivate" you ... well, just pick an actual party that comes closest to representing your views and opinions and philosophy. Again: simple!

If someone's truly "independent", or if they just can't decide, or if they place more value on the pride of being able to label themselves as being "independent" or "free thinking" or "not beholden to a party" (instead of taking on the responsibility of participating with PARTY ACTIVITIES) then good-for-them! That's their choice and all the limitations that come with it ... but ultimately, it's their choice, and those are the consequences (so to speak) of their own decision.

But all is not lost. They can still participate by VOLUNTEERING for, and DONATING to the primary candidate of their preference. And if the actual PARTY MEMBERS agree and select that candidate as the PARTY'S nominee, then they can vote for that candidate in the General Election.

Don't like the rules? Well... it seems that their best chance of helping to shape and influence the rules would be to do so from WITHIN the party machinery. Standing on the street and shouting about it doesn't seem to be working. Posting on social media and hashtagging it to death isn't working either. When all else fails, come up with a new plan.

That's how a two party system works. "Perfect" is not always a choice. You can ask for "perfect", but you don't always get it.

[TCJ70]

27. This is the part that makes no sense to me...

...if I'm a new voter I can register nearly up to election day. If I want to switch parties I needed to do that 6 months ago. Just make the cutoff dates the same and all is right with the world.

[NCTraveler]

46. +1 nt.

[OilemFirchen]

49. Since, as I've noted numerous times, the smaller parties don't hold primaries...

not registering as a Dem or Rep and then complaining about being "disenfranchised" during the primary process is embarrassingly stupid.

[geek tragedy]

15. amazing that over 5 million people managed to figure this out in NY state

but not the low information independent voters who want to pick our party's leadership

[Stallion]

23. They Don't Want to Commit to the Democratic Party They Just Want to Date Around

nm

[Bluenorthwest]

72. Registration vs Turnout in NY:

An Analysis of Voter Turnout in New York

Low voter turnout is a national problem, and New York is no exception. During the last midterm
election, 29% of New Yorkers turned out 7% below the national rate. Voting rates for young people were even more abysmal, with only 13% voters ages 18 -29 representing the national electorate.

While registration rates in New York have increased since the early 1980s, turnout has largely
remained stagnant. As of 2010, there is a gap of approximately five million people between
registered New York voters and those who turned out to vote for governor.
http://www.citizensunion.org/www/cu/site/hosting/Reports/Final_CityCollegeCapstoneReport-VoterTurnout_May2015.pdf

[MoonRiver]

16. ...

[Stallion]

18. Should Have Been Part of Calculus When Bernie Decided to Co-Op the Democratic Party

he knew there were positives and negatives. The fact that actual Democrats don't want a Democratic Socialist at the top of their ticket should have been anticipated

[Goblinmonger]

85. So when he caucused with the Dems all those years

where was all the complaining about "co-op"ing (sic) the party?

[MineralMan]

20. Democrats selecting their own nominee - The Horror!

New York's rules are not new. Not at all. They were in place long before Bernie declared his candidacy.

He doesn't like them, because he became a Democrat only for this election. Those rules don't favor newly-declared Democrats, apparently, but they are the rules in a number of states, and have been for years.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Well you claim to be all about GOTV. NY has some of the country's worst turnout due to various

undue restrictions. Oregon is a closed Primary, we have very high turnout so it's not about open/closed primaries. It's about many things. In 2014 NY State had the third worst turnout in the US, less than 29% and NYC turnout was at 20%. Only Texas and Indiana had lower turnouts than NY.
This is some information from the NYC Campaign Finance Board:
New York State Near Bottom in Voter Turnout Rankings
New York City hit a historic low in voter turnout last November, but the latest report from the U.S. Election Assistance Commission makes it clear that our voter turnout crisis extends across New York State. After each federal election, the EAC collects data from election administrators around the country about voter registration and turnout for the best comparison for how states stack up against each other. New York routinely ranks near the bottom for turnout in EAC reports, and 2014 was no different. The state trailed the rest of the nation, ranking 46th for voter turnout among the citizen voting age population (CVAP). An abysmally low 29.1% of citizens age 18 or over cast a ballot last November – only slightly better than the 20% who turned out in New York City. New York can and should do more to encourage civic participation among voters — starting with reforming our outdated, restrictive election laws.


http://www.nyccfb.info/media/blog/new-york-state-near-bottom-voter-turnout-rankings

Odd to see you favoring what others call 'outdated, restrictive election laws' when those laws result in embarrassingly low turnout.
If I was a NYer I would be ashamed of that habitual low turnout.

[MineralMan]

74. I don't live in New York. I've never voted there.

I lived in Syracuse for 9 months while in the USAF, to attend a total-immersion Russian language school, but voted absentee in California that year.

Now, I live in Minnesota, which has very high turnouts in general elections. I work on GOTV where I live, not in other states. I have no input into the primary rules in New York. I assume that the Democratic Party in that state is responsible for them. I think I'll just leave their rules to the party there. We have no such restrictions here, and won't when we have primaries instead of caucuses starting in 2020. We have same day registration and do not declare our party when registering. At the primaries, we ask for the ballot we want to vote on.

Every state does it differently. States set election rules and laws.

What do I think of New York's primary rules? Not much. I don't think about them much at all. They are what they are. They are what they have been for a very long time. Apparently, they're what New Yorkers want. I can't say. I won't ever live there, I'm certain, so I'll just keep concerning myself with Minnesota's laws.

[Bluenorthwest]

95. Yeah, I know where you vote. You are here touting the excellence of NY's rules and you are always

yammering about GOTV so I pointed out to you that NY's rules create low turnout and voter apathy. I guess you are no longer into big turnout and GOTV. That's all one can surmise from your responses in this thread. You are thrilled with States in which Democrats barely vote at all. If that serves your candidate. Good for you.

[KingFlorez]

21. An offer of cheese to go with that whine

Lowering expectations indeed.

[salinsky]

22. I would tend to agree that the process is corrupted ...

... however, I would also observe that if you're complaining about the process, you're probably not winning.

[Renew Deal]

26. Boo hooo

[Buzz Clik]

30. When he's back in the Senate, perhaps the Amendment King can pass a resolution about this.

[workinclasszero]

35. Good idea!

[workinclasszero]

34. I guess Bernie Sanders is not the King of New York

To bad, so sad!

[sufrommich]

41. Why should independents pick the democratic party's nominee?

That seems like a pretty simple question. This is a party election,not a general election.

[Codeine]

44. Perhaps his campaign should have worked

on informing potential voters in time?

[NCTraveler]

45. Remove Paul supporters from being able to vote in our primary.

And you remove any chance Sanders has to win.

[workinclasszero]

56. Bingo!

We have a winner folks!

[ecstatic]

47. Just. Like. Trump.

Everything about his campaign resembles Trump's campaign. The complaining, bullying, etc.

[beedle]

50. Democratic party making 'smart' decisions

Always a good idea to alienate the biggest block of voters while your party is leaking supports like a sieve.

Bodes will for 2018 & 2020 ... but who cares about the future of the country, or even the future of the party ... there are people to disenfranchise today in the name of Hillary.

[Land of Enchantment]

83. Nice graphs. The 'Big Tent' is shrinking and

I could not agree more that they are alienating the indies at their own peril. The Al From wing of the DNC is an archaic entity and the young and new voters want no part of it...

[Bluenorthwest]

52. From The New York City Campaign Finance Board...strong criticism for restrictive election laws....

New York State Near Bottom in Voter Turnout Rankings

New York City hit a historic low in voter turnout last November, but the latest report from the U.S. Election Assistance Commission makes it clear that our voter turnout crisis extends across New York State. After each federal election, the EAC collects data from election administrators around the country about voter registration and turnout for the best comparison for how states stack up against each other. New York routinely ranks near the bottom for turnout in EAC reports, and 2014 was no different. The state trailed the rest of the nation, ranking 46th for voter turnout among the citizen voting age population (CVAP). An abysmally low 29.1% of citizens age 18 or over cast a ballot last November – only slightly better than the 20% who turned out in New York City. New York can and should do more to encourage civic participation among voters — starting with reforming our outdated, restrictive election laws.
http://www.nyccfb.info/media/blog/new-york-state-near-bottom-voter-turnout-rankings


Are NYers proud of this bottom of the barrel turnout? Many of them on DU seem to be very proud of their State's voter apathy. In 2014 NY was the lowest turnout of any Blue State. Only Texas and Indiana had lower turnout than NY. Is that really something to celebrate or is Bernie correct to join the NYC Campaign Finance Board in criticizing NY election restrictions?

Some more:
Forty Years of Freefall in New York Voter Turnout
Voter turnout in New York State is in freefall. Last week's gubernatorial election saw the smallest number of voters make it to the polls in the four decades since the state Board of Elections was formed and began tracking voting. Few reports have noted the extent of the decline: Cuomo's 52.5 percent of the vote on election night may have seemed like the typical erosion of an incumbent's margin - down from 61 percent in 2010 - but it obscures a fall of nearly one million votes.

"New York has always been lousy," says New York Public Interest Research Group (NYPIRG) legislative director Blair Horner. "It's getting worse."
http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/government/5432-forty-years-of-freefall-in-new-york-voter-turnout

[Onlooker]

67. Bernie's full of shit on this one

In this cycle, independent voters could move the Democratic Party to the left, which would help Bernie. In other cycles, independent voters move the Party to the right. If Trump had run as a conservative Democrat and Bernie had not run, I think he'd be very upset by open primaries. But, let's face it, he only became a Democrat for opportunistic reasons, not because he's a true Democrat, so who is he to complain?

I think the bigger problem with primaries are caucuses, which only tend to represent the political class, which is not what democracy is about.

[Bluenorthwest]

69. NY is proud of having lousy turnout and high voter apathy? Wow!

Forty Years of Freefall in New York Voter Turnout

Voter turnout in New York State is in freefall. Last week's gubernatorial election saw the smallest number of voters make it to the polls in the four decades since the state Board of Elections was formed and began tracking voting. Few reports have noted the extent of the decline: Cuomo's 52.5 percent of the vote on election night may have seemed like the typical erosion of an incumbent's margin - down from 61 percent in 2010 - but it obscures a fall of nearly one million votes.

"New York has always been lousy," says New York Public Interest Research Group (NYPIRG) legislative director Blair Horner. "It's getting worse."
http://www.gothamgazette.com/index.php/government/5432-forty-years-of-freefall-in-new-york-voter-turnout

[ecstatic]

89. He loves caucuses though.

Talk about undemocratic!

[DCBob]

98. +1

Caucuses provide the most skewed results of any voting method. They restrict who are able to participate and rewards aggressive participants. They should be outlawed as unfair and illegitimate.

[Gomez163]

77. Will Bernie please stop with the whining??????

[SusanCalvin]

79. I can't agree with this. People should know the rules in their own state.

I've lived in states with both open and closed primaries and registered accordingly.

Maybe he's just trying to manage expectations, but I feel this is not the way to do it.

[brooklynite]

99. If only there was a way the Sanders campaign could have found out the rules in advance...

...maybe notify prospective voters early enough to re-register...