Food for thought; what if "the base" isn't what you think it is?

[Tarc]

Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:37 AM - Edit history (1)

There's a common catcall around here that Clinton is out of touch with the progressive base, i.e all those people that prefer Bernie. But what if the party is shifting along with the demographics of much of the nation? The US is bit by bit becoming less- dominated by white, Christian males; Trump is having a field day capitalizing on that fear. So what if the more important base of the party starts to become people like this;




and this



and this



and not so much this;

[griffi94]

1. Hillarys supporters are the base

With respect to Bernie and his supporters They don't represent the majority
of everyday Democrats.

They're the cutting edge progressives.

The base is exactly who
has put Hillary so far in the lead.

POC, women, blue collar families, moderate Indies who are disgusted by what the GOP has turned into.
Like the the Times piece said.
Her coalition is broad and durable.
That's the base of the Democratic Party.

[uponit7771]

22. +1

[workinclasszero]

38. The real base of the democratic party backs Hillary!

The democrat only New York primary proved that beyond a doubt!

[griffi94]

43. That and all the other primaries and caucuses

where she won a majority of Democrats.
The Indies have kept Bernie in the race this long.

Now that most of the open primary staes have voted he'll continue to lose ground.

[merrily]

52. You have misdescribed the two sets of voters. The sharpest dividing line is age, not the groups

you have listed. All those groups are well represented in Bernie's constituency, but the younger members of those groups.

The meme that all women are voting for Hillary is especially incorrect. Millions and millions of women support Bernie and I am proud to be one of them.

Most, but not all, of Bernie's supporters are the future.

[griffi94]

55. The majority of those groups I listed voted for Hillary

Of course no group is monolithic.

My 2 millinial daughters voted Bernie.
They'll vote Hillary in November.

Yes Bernies supporters are the future but I tend to doubt they'll still
vote the same as they age.
No generation has.

Hopefully they will be more progressive than the last generation and pull our entire society
to the left.

But I don't belive the revolution will keep going.
They never seem to.

The revolutionaries of the 60 largely became the Reaganites of the 80s.

Youth has always been the future but when you age out of youth then your priorities change.
Family, jobs, children, a rewarding life (whatever that means to the individual).

Thanks for your comment.

[merrily]

61. Center right Dems voted for Reagan, not "revolutionaries" or liberals.

They did the same with Nixon and Dimson Bush.

Sixties liberals, on the other hand, demonstrated against the Iraq War, just as they demonstrated against the Vietnam War.

As for what will last and what won't time will tell.

As far as who a majority of women or people of color voted for, that does not contradict what I said about age being the sharpest dividing line, not sex or color or any other factor.

[griffi94]

65. They were center right at the time they voted for Reagan

Again no group is monolithic.
A lot of 60s liberals did protest Iraq.
I attended 2 protests here in Austin.

I'm a generation after the 60s liberals.

I've known more than a lot of them that went from being liberal hippies to
voting for tax cuts.
The ones I've known stayed liberal on social issues and civil rights issues.
Mostly they didn't become T-Baggers. Just more cautious and conservative about economics
and sometimes enviro issues if they work for in the oil industry.


I grew up in a small town in southeast Texas. My youngest uncle was the towns first real hippie
he became a hippie after his Vietnam tour.while he was hanging around southern California. That would have 69-70

Today he's a T-Bagger.
I don't see him much.

[merrily]

66. The idea that liberals made up the bulk of Democrats for Nixon, Democrats for Reagan or

Democrats for any other Republican is patently untrue, no matter what two or three examples you give anecdotally.

Also the "revolution" of the Fifities and Sixties accomplished a LOT. America is nothing like it was in 1955. If you think people who changed it were the ones sitting home watching I Love Lucy and tsk tsking over demonstrators and "draft dodgers: would have changed zip without the "revolutionaries" (misnomer) that, too, would be a big mistake.

[griffi94]

67. You're right

The 60s revolution is still going strong.
Deadhead stickers on Cadillacs

The country lunged to the right in Reagan 49 state sweep
Even MA NY CA IL.

Even Liberal Democratic states went for Reagan.

Have a good day.

[Svafa]

62. Exactly!

[Hortensis]

76. Disagree, but in any case, kids have a way of maturing

and, I might add, becoming at least more conservative in the process. Social scientists know that parenthood causes a fairly reliable seismic shift toward being at least more conservative. Not surprising when you realize that a stronger disposition to fear/anxiety is a major characteristic of conservatives. Calls for "revolution" may not be as appealing to parents as they once were.

And, of course, it's very common for kids who thought they were leftist to have an "epiphany" and end up solidly somewhere on the right. This is actually quite common among left-wing radicals who make the rather short shift to right-wing reactionary, and vice versa.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. If they support candidates like Clinton, then we are no longer a progressive party

[randome]

3. That's right, don't let any foreign ideas infiltrate your perfect thoughts!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

63. I can't believe you said that

Foreign ideas these days are notions such as Corporate Power needs to be brought under control, Wall St. Greed and Immorality need to be directly confronted.....Trade policies should be oriented to FAIR TRADE negotiated democratically rather than behind closed doors by the oligarchs....etc.

Regarding "social" issues, the vast majority of Sanders supporters are jusrt as progressive -- often more so -- than Cinton supporters. Claims to the opposite is just slick campaign marketing.

[randome]

82. The 'foreign ideas' I meant is trying to learn why so many more people are voting for Clinton.

There must be a reason other than they are all 'damaged' in some way.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

83. Oh, okay

To be honest, neither intellectually or emotionally can I fathom why anyone who is remotely liberal on most issues could support her or believe she represents their interests more than Sanders.

But the objective side of my nature can see the various reasons why people would support to her.

[randome]

84. I don't even like her myself, you know, and that's the truth.

But we're headed for a Clinton presidency so we may as well make the most of it, I think.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

85. Like Dylan Thomas wrote:

"Do not go gentle into that good night...."

But I'll probably slip into a blissfully apathetic state for a while once the primaries are over.

[gollygee]

4. DU is more progressive than the Democratic Party as a whole

That is definitely true. The party is more progressive than the Republican Party. The party has moved to the right, and it needs to move back left. I hope Bernie's popularity helps with that - more progressive candidates should feel more confident in running for office after that. But IMO another way to move the party to the left is to have big wins over Republicans. It looks like HIllary will get the nomination at that point, so in the general that's where my vote will go. The easier it is for Democrats to win, the more we'll see progressive candidates going for it. The harder it is for Democrats to win, the more we'll see the party move to the center.

[griffi94]

30. Well said

[KittyWampus]

6. I'm a progressive as are all my friends. We voted Clinton.

Because we are adults who understand pragmatism and can filter out the bullshit flung at her by Republicans and the Leftwing version of Tea Baggers.

She may not have been my first choice or even an ideal choice, but she's an excellent Democratic candidate who will help the country progress in the right direction.

[ThePhilosopher04]

8. You aren't progressive if you voted for Hillary, I'm sorry.

[KittyWampus]

10. You don't get to define me or other Progressives. I am tempted to say

you aren't an adult or interested in democracy as a form of government if you insist on Ideological purity.

[haikugal]

77. Oh please, we're all adults here and if you want pragmatic Bernie is not under an FBI investigation.

Stop with the nonsense. Let's talk about policy.

[Tarc]

17. Do you have any self-awareness of how Bush Jr.-like you sound at the moment?

"You're either with us or with the terrorists", "You don't support the War on Terror? Why do you hate freedom?" and all those lovely buzzphrases.

[uponit7771]

23. You aren't either if you voted for corporate immunity either... progressive my ass

[all american girl]

75. You know, you don't get to tell people what they are. That shuts down the conversation

and is bullying, in my opinion.

[baldguy]

86. You aren't progressive if you oppose the Democratic nominee, and the Democratic Party on principle.

[bkkyosemite]

51. "we are adults" OMG............................

70 on the 29th..you calling me a kid...

[Jrapin]

81. Pragmatist

If Hillary is the President expect,,, the TPP passed as new and better! Expect fracking to expand unchecked. Expect no meaningful banking reforms. Expect citizens united to exist unchallenged. Expect escalation of wars and escalation of refugee crisis. Expect continual impeachment proceedings or scandals made up or otherwise. Expect your social security privatized and more cuts to medicare medicade. All this will be blamed on the republicans who you can expect will widen their margins in Congress.
Buy hey, she's clearly the pragmatic choice.

[uponit7771]

24. disgusting

[mythology]

27. Classless and wrong

Excellent work.

[brush]

34. Believe me, you aren't part of it.

[seabeyond]

13. Quit creating my progressive candidate as non progressive. You are wrong. It is offensive.

[uponit7771]

37. Neither are the ones who support corporate immunity !!!

[NurseJackie]

5. You hit a HOME RUN with that!

[Skwmom]

9. Food for thought: Why are they so DESPERATE to ignore the fact that Bernie voters are more than

Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:25 AM - Edit history (1)

white guys.

And for some reason, when I talk to people as I go out and about, I am finding that people who are supposed to be Clinton's base are for Bernie. Go figure.

[davidn3600]

11. It's this type of attitude the reason you will not only lose the general election...

...but the Democratic party will fracture under the weight of its own identity politics.

No one in this party is talking about equality anymore. Now it's all about dividing the population along racial and gender lines and then pitting one group against another. The end game of that dysfunction and chaos. It won't bring any social justice at all.

You don't have the numbers to win a general election without Democratic white men. You continue down this track, you'll lose the white working class. You will lose the union workers. And when that happens, kiss the swing states good-bye.

[seabeyond]

14. Ya, we get a portion of our white male Democrats have been wanting this white male revolution

for a while in our Democratic party. Yea. You lose.

[davidn3600]

18. Keep it up...

Your reply is exactly what I am talking about.

You have an "us vs them" mentality. It's going to fracture the party.

[seabeyond]

19. Ya ya ya. I know. I get it. You and other white men can push us aside and you are good with that.

As a matter of fact you think it simply how it should be, privilege and all. But you know, women or minority tries to stand up to it, .... and ya, "us vs them".

We are good if we allow your privilege. If we do not... then better watch out.

[davidn3600]

21. And that "privilege" talk is part of the problem too

The only people in this country who are "privileged" are the rich and the elitists....many of whom are running the Democratic party today.

Hillary is the queen of privilege. She's never had to fight for anything in her life. She didn't even know how to use the turnstile at the subway. Her life is full of million+ dollar homes, private jets, and having people drive her around for most of her life. When was the last time she drove a car? Her jobs have been a cakewalk and given to her. As first lady, she and her feminist supporters turned their backs on every woman Bill groped and harassed. In the Senate, she didn't write one piece of legislation. And as secretary of state, Libya fell apart, Syria fell apart, and our "reset" with Russia went down the tubes. And I've not even touched on the scandals and corruption and secret speeches to Wall Street insiders we are not allowed to hear.

Yet you want to talk to me about how I'm "privileged?" LMAO!

[seabeyond]

25. See, I do not even go beyond title. I GET you do not GET your privilege as you demand privilege....

lol, all the while.

[davidn3600]

39. Typical Clinton voter

No answer to her real problems.

Good luck winning the general election...you're going to need it.

[seabeyond]

40. Really? Or just one that does not feel like I have to enable your privilege?

[uponit7771]

26. Talking about privilege is only a problem to the privileged. The establishment is going to have its

... temper tantrum and then some introspection and the ones who really are progressives will get on board with the rest of what America is going to be

[Recursion]

45. OMFG

I wish I could say this post surprised me

[Recursion]

47. "She's never had to fight for anything in her life"

You cannot be that stupid and avoid getting run over crossing the street.

[msanthrope]

15. "Identity politics." Keep dismissing concerns of women and minorities....nt

[uponit7771]

35. Honestly, if people see something wrong with this post then most likely you'll vote Trump anyway...

... there's nothing wrong or false with this post.

People have noticed this for years that white women and women of color are now the power a true power base in the DNC

The ones who haven't noticed are not taking it well, but its been there for years

[davidn3600]

48. Trump??

Fuck no I ain't voting for Trump. Nor am I voting for Hillary. Im looking 3rd party at this point. Or just won't vote at all in the Presidential race. But I refuse to be guilt-trapped into voting for a corrupt politician. Won't happen. I see no difference between her and and the neocons.

[uponit7771]

49. You might as well be voting for trump then if you're going to vote 3rd party... What I typed was

... accurate.

The only people who have a problem with this OP are the ones who are having a temper tantrum about ceding power in the DNC...

[davidn3600]

50. I have a problem because I find it divisive

I don't see how an OP like this brings unity. I don't see how it will bring anyone together. I don't see how it will bring any equality. All it does is bring a shitstorm with everyone accusing each other of racism and sexism and insulting the issues each person views as important. It is identity politics. It accomplishes nothing.

[uponit7771]

71. Its the truth, I think Devine Weaver gave bad advise and paid no attention to the 2008 election

... and the path Obama took to win.

There's no one accusing anyone of either of the isms just that the power structure in the DNC has changed and it do so long ago.

The DNC establishment doesn't notice this but HRC camp did cause they were in the 2008 election and saw Obama's path to victory, they did little different and are being succesful from the start.

Sanders from the start had someone who called Obama niggerized stump for him in IA and NH, what the hell was that!?

The biggest tell tale that his advisers didn't notice the power shift.

It accomplishes a lot to let people know where the power has shifted in the party.... facts are progressive IMHO

[forjusticethunders]

41. we get it white men are oppressed lolololol nt

[boston bean]

12. That type of introspection would cause heads to explode!

Too painful!

[Marrah_G]

16. Every single post you make like this loses future supporters for your candidate

You drive people away. Is that really what you want?

[uponit7771]

31. The racial and gender establishment is resisting the true revolution in the DNC, that's reality

[VulgarPoet]

20. Progressives don't send their military to die for no reason. nt

[uponit7771]

32. Or vote to give corporations immunity... yeah...

[Fast Walker 52]

42. or to destabilize regimes around the world for the sake of US capitalism

causing untold death and suffering

[Octafish]

28. You mean Banksters?

Hadn't thought of that before.

[uponit7771]

29. I'd be surprised if your jury notice isn't given by the 20th child thread, this will hit a nerve.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. The Times They Are A-Changin'-Bob Dylan

[uponit7771]

36. +1, very much so

[Fast Walker 52]

44. Gee, those pics aren't selective at all...

[Tarc]

53. That was....kinda the point there

To show some once-marginalized voices in American society that ar now turning out to vote for Hillary in drives.

[Fast Walker 52]

54. so you really don't think there are pics of Bernie supporters showing similar numbers of

women, etc?

[Tarc]

57. Not. The. Point.

More (far more) women support Hillary.

[uponit7771]

79. +1

[XemaSab]

46. Why are you stereotyping the boys in the last picture?

They could be Jewish, LGBT, recent immigrants, or anything, really.

Why are you assuming they're a bunch of frat bros?

Also, is Bernie himself a white, Christian male?

[Tarc]

56. Do you know why there's no White History Month?

Because they already have them, aka "the other eleven months". ( to Chris Rock)

In the same vein, I don't think white males need protection from stereotyping.

[XemaSab]

64. I found out where you got the picture from!

[Tarc]

68. "Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian hosts of The Young Turks"

Yep, may as well throw HA Goodman in there too.

[MineralMan]

58. The true base of the party consists of those voters

who go to the polls every election and vote for Democrats. That has always been the base of the party. Those who only vote for Democrats when they strongly support a particular candidate are NOT the base of the party, and never have been.

Those who register as Independents or who won't declare a party affiliation are NOT the base of the Democratic Party, either, and never have been.

Those who threaten not to vote for the party's nominee are definitely NOT the base of the Democratic Party. They are something else altogether, and aren't a unified voting bloc at all.

The base of the party consists only of those who are reliable voters for Democratic candidates. The rest are not the base. They never have been the base.

That's my opinion, of course.

[Orsino]

59. Money rules.

People still have a voice, thank goodness, but the money really needs to be banned.

Get the money out of the way, because only then will we have the faintest idea who the base really is.

[Armstead]

60. The target "base" should be the American People 90 Percent - Big Tent

The GOP and Big Money Oligarchs have been making hay out of dividing and segmenting Americans for decades.

People are going to have differing perspectives on specific issues, but we ALL need decent jobs and oppotunities, access to affordable healthcare, access to housing, education...etc. We also need to band together to bring more power to the 90 Percent, and stop allowing ourselves to be bullied by Big Money and Big Power.

[geek tragedy]

72. the problem is that this kind of class-based analysis isn't very popular

African-Americans rejected it.

Latinos rejected it.

Women rejected it.

GLBT voters (based on NYC returns) rejected it.

Jewish voters rejected it.

The party does not define the base, the base defines the party.

[Armstead]

73. 46 percent polling is not insignificant

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

RCP Average 3/28 - 4/14 -- -- 47.7 Clinton 46.3 Sanders

[geek tragedy]

74. 75-25 rejected by African-Americans. 67-33 rejected by Latinos.

65-35 rejected by Jews.

Actual votes, not polls. In New York. In Florida. In Texas. In Ohio. In Virginia.

Amazingly, members of oppressed minorities don't buy into the "one size fits all" theory as much as those who belong to the privileged group.

[Armstead]

78. Marketing and Israel and brand loyalty and unfamiliarity

Sure there are a lot of AA's who like the Clintons. But I prefer to thuink of people as individuals rather than "demographic units" and if Sanders had more time to let them get to know him and his agenda, I'm sure he could continue to cut into that more.

The Jewish vote. Bernie committed the cardinal sin of not pandering to AIPAC and pointing out that Palestinians are people too.

[edbermac]

69. Jury results

On Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Her base consists of sheep and those with Stockholm Syndrome
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1789433

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Offensive OTT insults at Clinton supporters. Sheep and Stockholm Syndrome. Most Sanders supporters accept the S.S. is offensive.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:33 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Objection to calling people sheep
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Do I detect a note of bitterness after last night?
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[baldguy]

87. Righteous hide.

[geek tragedy]

70. The Obama coalition is the base of the party. nt

[mmonk]

80. The poor and the dwindling middle class aren't necessarily all white males.