Ok, so you're Bernie or Bust. What do you want from Hillary supporters then?

[auntpurl]

Why do you keep posting OP after OP about how you're Bernie or Bust, or you'll NEVER vote for Hillary, or how this isn't just a presidential campaign, it's a movement, etc etc etc? What do you hope to accomplish?

The Hillary supporters can't help you with your conundrum. 2.5 million (it's probably more than that after NY) more Democratic voters have chosen Hillary over Bernie. No matter how strongly or passionately you feel about Bernie as a candidate or the revolution in general, he/it resonates with fewer people than does Hillary's message.

Listen, I'm sorry. I've been in your position. My heart was broken in 2008. I of course voted for Obama (and I like him a lot more now than I did then), but I felt sad that my candidate hadn't made it. That her message just wasn't getting to people the way Obama's message was.

You're in the same position now. You feel psyched up and energised by Bernie's message, but not enough people in the Democratic Party agree with you.

So what is the point of these types of OPs? What do you want us to say? Ok fine, we'll rescind our vote for Hillary, subvert the will of the 2.5 million more people who've already voted for Hillary, and somehow circumvent all the election rules to get Bernie the nomination? I really don't understand what you want from us.

[Merryland]

1. It ain't over till it's over

and it AIN'T OVER YET.

[Orsino]

7. Your A game.

Come to the convention with every last delegate your candidate can win.

[silvershadow]

126. Had I known it would come to this, I would have gone to convention instead of vacation.

Way too late now, to my knowledge to get in. ? I can change my plans.

[dubyadiprecession]

128. Backwardsbernie is right. He still has his day job in the senate.

[northernsouthern]

2. I am sure they want nothing from you.

Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Your post indicates you have little to no empathy for the issues they are dealing with in this election. Way to cite popular vote in closed elections (the most closed in the entire country)...but hey it is a win for HRC, not really moral since you can't have a moral win in a rigged election.

[griffi94]

18. Wow talk about entitled

Little to no empathy for the issues they're dealing with in this election?

What about the issues of the majority. They shouldn't vote what's important to them and instead
set that aside for the perpetually angry, disgrutled, and seemingly unrealistic demographic.

I know Bernie supporters are frustrated and angry but here's the thing.

Me voting for my candidate isn't an attack.
Empathy for your issues doesn't mean embracing them to the detriment of what my issues are.

You have an opinion. It's not a chisled in stone fact. It's not even the majority opinion.

[Gwhittey]

36. Wow talk about entitled

That title straight off Shawn Hanitty forums when they are talking about us liberals. I guess that is what happened to some of GOP they came here.

[griffi94]

47. Thanks for commenting

I've been a Democrat since I voted for the first time in 1980.

Sorry you're upset that I won't vote your priorities instead of my own.
Or that I won't let you pick my priorities for me.

Your comment seems to indicate that you're angry and disgruntled. I'm sorry for that

Sorry your guy lost (well not really since I was for Hillary)

[northernsouthern]

44. Wow a HRC poster postining "wow talk about entitled"

What about the issues of the majority. They shouldn't vote what's important to them and instead
set that aside for the perpetually angry, disgruntled, and seemingly unrealistic demographic.

Hey good example of being entitled! That is definitely talking about it...

en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

Painting our entire base ad hominem with the appearance of little to no understanding and genuine apathy of their actual problems is being entitled. The MOST INCLUSICE election was just won by you candidate with a lower win than in 2008, with thousands of uncounted ballots still waiting to be counted...and you act like that means something. Good lick with that.

[griffi94]

56. So voting my own interest is

me expecting special treatment.
Haha

Bernie is toast.
Democrats soundly rejected him.

Most of them voted their interests as well.

[northernsouthern]

78. Wow, just tons of wow!

You got it completely.



That is exactly what I am saying, you are sooooooooooooo empathetic it is hard to deal in all of your empathy. You pretty much summed it up for me. I must have been saying that, and wow soundly rejected, just like with Obama!

When you are done with all of the shooting victims you like to use for your flag, can you return them to the families that actually cared about them?

[griffi94]

86. I'm sorry you're angry

Maybe a candidate you like will have better luck in 2024.

[northernsouthern]

97. Actually very true.

Trump will win this election, the DNC will get purged (unless they double down with Hillary blinders). Then a good candidate will challenge Trump in 2020, or Hillary will pull one last Ahab and then in 2024 we will get a good candidate. They is a pretty good argument I never looked at it that way, thanks for the help.

[griffi94]

98. You're welcome

Keep in mind that nothing is static.
I woke up pissed off every day from 2000 - 2008.

Then we got Obama. I didn't like him at first but I've softened that.

He's done what's possible with what he had to work with.

Compromise isn't a dirty word to me anymore.

[northernsouthern]

100. I always liked him more than Hillary.

But that is because I knew I could trust him far more. I knew he would have a hard time, and the fact the RNC doubled down as racist and the DNC failed to help him pass things because as DNC candidates got they are often timid rabbits only concerned with reelection. I have seen so many elections they act cowardly to not pass a bill because they are afraid to upset the right, but then they alienate the left and get destroyed in the election. This primary is a big example of that.

[griffi94]

102. I didn't like him in 2008

But it wasn't his message.
I don't like candidates that show up on a national stage with no real checkable background.

I live in Austin and in 2000 when Dubya was running he didn't have much of a checkable background.

I knew he was the village idiot from living here but the media sold him as a moderate and a compassionate conservative.

If you were here you knew what he was.
But there wasn't much of a record to check.

I remember in a debate with Gore, Dubya taking credit for passing a Patient Bill Of Rights.
Lying bastard it passed over his veto but that was never mentioned in any of the press.

That was my issue with Obama.
I've been happy with him for the most part.

[northernsouthern]

106. Yeah GW had issues.

I also wondered why he got such a free pass. For me having grown up with Hillary, having seen her more business and more conservative sides I was not a big fan. I did think about voting for her based on finally getting a woman in, but the Iraq vote was such a horrible thing I could not understand how someone that high up could make a more ignorant vote than the average Joe would have...or rather she voted like he would have. BUt as I said her race and religion baiting from 2008 ended my respect for her...



and

...I forgot about that a little bit of the start of the election because of the republican's making a martyr of her with the hearings...but the second the HRC camp started smearing us it all came flooding back.


Also this...

Jesus listen to this is is soooooooooooo hypocritical.

[griffi94]

110. She's not my ideal candidate

But I like her better than the nutters on the Republican side.

I quit holding the IWR vote against her.
I know that's a bridge too far for some people.
My position is that it was going to pass anyway. And that was in the height of the Patriotics Fever
You're with us or your against us.
I was really angry about at it that time but mostly because the vote was a "When did you stop beating your wife"
kind of thing.

The GOP and most of the media were really out for Democratic scalps.
I forget the Democratic Congressman in GA who was a disabled war veteran and got defeated because he wasn't
patriotic enough.

It was always going to pass. The Democrats were afraid of being smeared as pro terror but it still pissed me off
because when they voted yes they gave cover to the GOP.

After it went to hell then the Republicans got to point at the Democrats and say They voted for it too.

She's done some good things like her votes on CHP and I think the ACA will be safe with her in office.
It's not as good as I'd like either but it's better than the nothing we had before.
I had a pre-existing condition nothing serious but I couldn't get insurance before.

I think she's as liberal as we're likely to get at this point in time.
I've gotten more pragmatic as I've gotten older.
I don't take any politics personally.

[northernsouthern]

111. That is a southern thing.

I have noticed it with my family that did not vote for Obama because "no one would vote for a black man". Well they were wrong, and this election in Arkansas they did the same thing, no one I know voted for her they voted for fear, they said no one would vote for a socialist. We will never know the temperature of the water if no one jumps in. As a party we are the most cowardly, so many people get embarrassed by how weak we are...they only see the weak candidates we think will be ok with the other team...stop playing for the other team, play for our country. We need this.

[griffi94]

114. I didn't vote for fear

I vote for what I think is possible more than my wish list if my wish list is out of reach.
I don't have a problem with slow and steady.

The difference between Obama in 2008 and Bernie now is that
Obama had the support of a majority of Democrats and was following a disaster of an administration in Dubya.

Bernie doesn't enjoy the support of the majority of Democrats and is following a popular Democratic president.

I read somewhere recently that doesn't work in Bernies favor.
Most Democrats aren't nearly so angry as they were 8 years ago and they see Hillary as Obamas 3rd term.
Since they've mostly been happy with Obama they're happy with his policies continuing.
I think a lot of people wish it went faster but they do see the difference between now and 08.

This cycle the GOP is the angry party but they've become so enraged that they're unhinged.
I'm not die hard party guy tho and outside of some ribbing I'd never tell anybody how they should vote.

The truth is unless you live in a swing state it doesn't have much bearing on the outcome.
If you live in Oregon or Illinois that states going blue regardless. And if like me you live in Texas where nuttery is the rule not the exception then it's going red.

I do think this tears candidates in both parties are going to effect the number of swing states,
It;s usually OH FL
This year VA and NC will be in play.

[northernsouthern]

116. Not correct.

I vote for what I think is possible more than my wish list if my wish list is out of reach.
I don't have a problem with slow and steady.

That is the fear I speak of, in the south many of us don't know how much better other areas can be. Just because you are in the north does not mean you don't see it too, but you are closer to oasis. But basically many people in highly racist areas don't vote for black or even jewish people based on the fact that the rest of the racists will not vote for them...which actually makes them racist by proxy (my parents).

The difference between Obama in 2008 and Bernie now is that
Obama had the support of a majority of Democrats and was following a disaster of an administration in Dubya.

This cycle the GOP is the angry party but they've become so enraged that they're unhinged.
I'm not die hard party guy tho and outside of some ribbing I'd never tell anybody how they should vote.

You are in the minority here, all I have heard for 6 months is Hillary or you are a sexist Bernie Bro like the Obama Boys before. Our party is also about to break.

Hopefully voter turn out in those states you listed will be better, they have all been sub 2008, Florida was the only one close.

[griffi94]

117. I think I wasn't clear then on my not voting fear

I don't vote with group think.
I'm not really a joiner.
I'm also not locked into any regional culture.
I live in Teaxs most of the time. I live in NYS a few months every year.
I travel a lot for work.

The fact that people in my state won't vote for someone based on race gender or ethnicity doesn't have any bearing on mey decisions at all.

But I voted based on the pragmatic idea that while Bernie offers a whole loaf. I don't think he can deliver it.
How much of it can he deliver? Hard to tell.

Hillary offers a half loaf. How much of that will she be able to deliver. Given what I know of her
enough of it that gets my vote.
Hopefully Hillary will get a senate majority and not have to compromise as much as she will have to if the GOP keeps the senate.

I'm not all or nothing.
That's not fear. we've had elections here where I really couldn't stomach either candidate so I voted 3rd party.
I knew I wasn't going to get anything when I did that.

I also think on an anonymous political site that plenty of people are just bomb throwers.
Neither candidates supporters are monolithic.

In my real life I have friends across the political spectrum from very progressive to to conservative Republicans.
We never get nasty with each other. But it's not anonymous.

Ive seen plenty of idiocy on here and I've even participated in some of it.
But anybody that's interested in having a reasonable conversation with me then I'll be more than happy to
do that and be respectful.
I'm happy to know your side of things I'm not trying to convert anybody.

[northernsouthern]

118. Yeah I was...

...throwing my friends and family under the bus, less you. But what you were saying reminded me of what they said in 2008. I think they feel guilty about it when they talk about it now, but then they said the exact thing about Bernie. The big thing about Clinton is that I think she will offer up more than Obama did to the republicans, that is why starting the left is the only way to compromise, if you start the deal with a half of a loaf the best you can do is a half.

[griffi94]

120. There is something to be said for asking for everything up front

Ask for the moon and the stars and then settle on the moon.
Or even a comet. But that's more of a differnce of opinion on how to negotiate.

The current state of the GOP I don't see them agreeing with anybody even on things they say they're for.

But they've gone rabid. Thank you RW media lol.

[northernsouthern]

122. Yeah.

Our media has also been bad, even NPR is bad more often than before. I think the problem with using the do nothing congress is that it is a moot point, they can get nothing passed. The advantage is that with a candidate that brings out independents and the youth vote we could destroy the republican hold on the senate and damage the house...but as it is now they are killing off the enthusiasm with all of the cheap tricks and smearing.

[griffi94]

123. There isn't as much enthusiasm as there was in 08

I'd like to see the younger voters get involved at the state level.
Flip some legislatures and maybe a Governors chair or two.

Start pulling everything back left from the bottom up.
That would also give us a really deep bench for years.

About all the media tilting to the right.
That's a residual effect of 9-11.

Was like the Joe McCarthy red baiting years.

Any criticism of any Republican was met with. Why do you support the terrorists.

[northernsouthern]

124. The sad thing is there is

The areas that were close or Bernie won in were closer to the last election, the areas he won were above the 2008 election. Hillary has yet to win a state that has at or over 100% of the previous election

[griffi94]

125. Democratic turnout has been down over all from 08

Hard to predict what it might be like in November.

It's not just Democrats having a contested primary.
And honestly this one isn't any worse than our previous 2.
08 and 04.

The GOP has a timebomb on their hands because a lot of their rank & file hate both of the front runners.

At least both of out candidates are sane.

[LibDemAlways]

69. Please clarify what you mean by "issues of the majority."

As I see it, a vote for Hillary is a vote for the dangerous, environmentally unsound practice of fracking. A vote for Hillary is a vote for neocon foreign wars. When she had the opportunity to take a stand on Iraq, a war based on lies, she voted yes. Her admiration of Kissinger and support from Kagan are downright disturbing. A vote for Hillary is a vote for a woman who pockets hundreds of thousands of corporate dollars from corrupt bankers for making secretive speeches behind closed doors. A vote for Hillary is a vote for trade deals that destroy American jobs and H1-B visas that steal them.

If those are indeed the issues that the majority of so called Democrats favor and Hillary somehow manages to claw her way into the WH (which is doubtful) we the people are good and truly fucked. D or R at that point are two sides of the same warmongering corporatist coin and the outcome can only be bad or worse.

[northernsouthern]

79. I am sure what they mean...

Is the elite as they have said,"Mature and their friends".

[griffi94]

84. Well that's as you see it

The simple fact is that more Democrats find their issues closer to Hillarys than Bernies.

If they agreed with Bernie more then he wouldn't be losing.

But in the opinion of some of Bernies supporters the voters who went for Hillary are
doing some personal injustice Bernie and his supporters.

Nobody thinks Hillary is perfect but her supporters feel like she lines up with their priorities better.

The Bernie supporters here seem outraged that people voted for the candidate they wanted to win.

So now we're not real Democrats or we're not the real base or we're just bad, mean people.

We are the base. That's why HIllary is winning.

And being angry and implying that someone has no empathy because they won't vote your priorities over their own does smack of entitlement.
Never mind what the majority wants give us the minority what we want. We deserve it because revolution.

[auntpurl]

35. "Little to no empathy for the issues they are dealing with"

I'll tell you who I have empathy for. Parents of black children who've been shot in the street. That's just ONE reason I support Hillary. She'll be better for the country, and better for people. Which is why so many more of them have voted for her.

[northernsouthern]

48. Good for you.

Way to use the dead kids as your own flag. I am sure half of may family thinks you are great, the white half may actually buy your arguement, but they also voted against Obama since he was black...you are in great company. I am sure Hillary cares so much for the black people like she did when I was in Arkansas and all they did was lip service to the community that basically went to their own school in our town. You have little to no care for life, you support a candidate that has killed millions, that attacked Obama for being anti-gun, and for being Kenyan and Muslim...enjoy your racist white privileged vote.

[Gman]

39. If Bernie or his supporters didn't like the rules for the primaries and

specifically super delegates and closed primaries, why didn't he work to change the rules years ago?

Maybe he didn't because he is not a Democrat? I have no sympathy for the whining.

[Adrahil]

87. "rigged"

Meaning any election which does not favor Sanders. Gimme a break.

[Katashi_itto]

3. At this point we want nothing from you. You have crossed the Rubicon.

[whatchamacallit]

4. I thought you were a brit...

[auntpurl]

6. I live in the UK. I'm American. I'm from PA.

And I've cast my vote for Hillary in PA.

But what does that have to do with my OP?

[MineralMan]

52. And the relevance of where that poster lives is what?

Lots of US voters live in other countries. Work, retirement, whatever.

[whatchamacallit]

57. I didn't know she was an expat

so I was confused about her voting for Obama. Surely you could have surmised this with your massive intellect...

[MineralMan]

62. No, I surmised it after opening the poster's profile.

Born in PA. "Natural born" citizen, it seems.

I don't assume. I check. Many DUers provide such information in their profiles. Others do not. About those, I have no idea.

[peacebird]

5. Honesty about how corrupt the process has been this cycle. 248k voters purged in Brooklyn alone

Thousands in Arizona who had the registration changed from D to Indie or nonaffiliate.

Voter disenfranchisement is bad.

[auntpurl]

9. Voter disenfranchisement IS bad.

Do you have any proof or even any indication that corruption is behind the purged voters in Brooklyn? How does it benefit Hillary? How would the electoral officials have known who was supporting Hillary and who Bernie? Brooklyn is a pretty diverse area.

Making people bring in extra ID when it's an undue burden is voter disenfranchisement. People not updating their registration after Sandy or even not registering at all is NOT voter disenfranchisement. This is an issue I feel very passionate about. Everyone deserves a vote! But you have to follow the rules.

The business in Arizona, based on how other areas voted, hurt Hillary more than Bernie.

[egalitegirl]

14. They would know because...

How would the electoral officials have known who was supporting Hillary and who Bernie?

In general, those who have switched to Democrats from Independents have done so due to BErnie attracting them to the party. These were ordinary Americans who were frustrated by the control influenced by the Military Industrial Complex and Wall Street. It is easy to target the new registrants and disenfranchise them.

Whatever be the reason, if people have been disenfranchised, it is the responsibility of the party leadership to redo the elections in a fair manner and ensure that everyone gets to vote.

[auntpurl]

17. Ok, that's reasonable I guess, but...

do you have an proof that that's what happened? Has ANYONE come forward to blow the whistle, or has there been any evidence uncovered? I'm including Arizona in that since NY was only yesterday.

[peacebird]

21. Not according to the insvestigation by Anonymous. In Arizona it was over ten X Bernie supporters

Disenfranchised vs Hills supporters

I am SURE the two Hillary superDelegates in NY are totally above board and will sort out what happened in Brooklyn in time that the primary won't be negatively impacted... Oh, wait. Too late.



Just like I am certain thet Debbie Wasserman Schulz is an honest and unbiased broke as her position as head of DNC REQUIRES her to be. After all, that's why the DNC insisted Tulsi give up HER board seat, because she was going to endorse Sanders.

The double standard and blatant bias against Sanders is SO obvious.

[brush]

46. I don't think you're right at all about Arizona

Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Most of the polling places closed there were in minority communities. Those are definitely not Sanders voters.

The election apparatus in AZ is controlled by the repug election officials, not Hillary's camp. It's a red state for the most part (except Tucson and Flagstaff)

All that was was a ham-handed rehearsal for the general election where they were planning to steal the election for the repugs.

They just overdid all the poll closings which resulted in the long lines at the two thirds fewer polling stations and drew unwanted attention to their rehearsal to suppress dem voters, not just Sanders voters.

[KPN]

25. So wait ... you ask what Bernie people want, you get an answer that is impartial ...

and pretty basic to democratic principles ... and YOU THEN LAUNCH INTO QUESTIONING THE RESPONDENT'S VERACITY??????



Some Hillarians just can't see beyond their noses I guess.

[auntpurl]

29. Not at all.

I didn't question the respondent was telling the truth. I asked for proof that any corruption (which was the word he/she used) was shown to be extant in the contests in AZ and NY.

[KPN]

38. Are you joking?

[auntpurl]

42. No.

[KPN]

55. Really??? What you said seems realtively non-sensical.

You are saying you don't question the respondent's truth, but you want him/her to provide proof. This after asking for "what a person wants from Hillary supporters, getting an impartial, direct and straightforward response (no innuendos), and you launch off about proof??11

[randome]

105. That's okay. Sanders couldn't think of anything, either.

So if there is no evidence of what you claim, shouldn't we move on to the next topic? We're likely in agreement on 99.99% of the issues.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[KPN]

22. That's a good start.

[IamMab]

8. It's POSTURING. It is performance art, to show each other just "How Pure I Can Be" in a public forum

[NurseJackie]

12. Exactly. Pure vanity. "Look at me! I'm pure!" And ...

... having a public temper tantrum.

Threatening to "never vote for Hillary" is also a way for immature voters to feel as if they have SOME sort of control over a situation for which they literally have NO CONTROL.

[KPN]

26. Feel better now NurseJane?

[BillZBubb]

28. Bullshit. I have control of my vote. And that's how it is for everyone.

[egalitegirl]

10. Join us in opposing candidates of Wall Street, neocons and Military Industrial Complex

We completely understand why you support Hillary. It is because we have more information and tend to focus on such information and completely empathize with people without that information.

Once we provide the information, we are confident that Hillary supporters will join us in opposing candidates of Wall Street, neocons and Military Industrial Complex. Note that Hillary Clinton herself was certified by the warmonger Henry Kissinger as a good secretary of State, and received support from Gloria Steinem who was once a CIA agent.

[NurseJackie]

19. Oh dear! Yeah... that's going to sway voters.

It is because we have more information and tend to focus on such information and completely empathize with people without that information.

What are you saying? Does this mean: "We're smarter than Hillary supporters." or "Hillary supporters are dumb."

You guys crack me up!!

[RandySF]

31. More information

From Facebook, Reddit and H.A. Goodman. Great sources.

[egalitegirl]

65. Trust me, Democrats have gone to war and Kissinger did certify Hillary

I think the problem is that few people know who vote for Hillary Clinton know about the former country called Yugoslavia and the criminal actions of Henry Kissinger and think that they are fictional places and characters invented on Facebook.

[Bohemianwriter]

11. For Hillary to quit...

She can spend the rest of her corrupted life counting the money she took from Wall Street..

When Hillary apologizes for her sleazy campaign, the shenanigans on the polling stations that has only benefited Hilary and hurt Bernie, her support for war crimes, her racist policies, her drug war based on said racist policies and start bringing her own super predators without consience or empathy to heel. Replace the drug offenders in the private prison industry with Loyd Blankfein and his mafia. They could do well in doing some hard labor, EARNING their meals instead of stealing it. When she promises to get money out of politics completely, sign a binding pledge to not support fracking of any kind, TPP and stop selling weapons to regimes who uses them against civiians.

When she completely distance herself from her 3rd way crap and become a real liberal - or as I call it, becoming a real human being your appeal will be noted...

But I suspect that Hell will freeze over before any of that happens.

[pinebox]

13. We want nothing

The divide is too great and on many issues, Hillary is essentially a RINO.
Some may get mad at me for saying that but in reality, that is how she is viewed and being from the liberal left, there are very few issues we agree on. The ideological divide along with the generation gap is astounding.

We're not into half way stuff, you go full in or you go home.

To us, the Democratic party went home a long time ago.

No Clinton's. No Bush's.

[mythology]

41. Yeah that's why her Senate voting record was 93% the same as Sanders

Because she is a "RINO" as you put it.

[pinebox]

50. That's why she voted with Republicans a lot of the time

and voted for things like a border fence, off shore drilling, Iraq....etc etc
Remember, W was pro-amnesty before 9/11. Would you support him too?

Please research your candidate. Here are a couple of great resources;

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/6/4/1390529/-Hillary-s-voting-record

[djean111]

59. It is where the votes DIFFER that counts - like, for example, the IRAQ War.

She is no Democrat, she is a Third Wayer, DINO.

[egalitegirl]

68. The other 7% included Wall Street welfare and vote for wars

It is the other 7% which is problematic. It included Wall Street welfare and vote for illegitimate wars.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. I don't want anything from Hillary supporters or anyone else.

Last edited Wed Apr 20, 2016, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

This is a political discussion site to discuss politics and all that goes with it.

[VulgarPoet]

16. To not ever say y'all support the troops again.

To not complain about loss of privacy when you vote for someone who supported SOPA, PIPA, TPP, the PATRIOT Act, and has been on record as saying "we need a Manhattan Project against encryption". To not wonder what happened, when we sustain another attack on our soil because your candidate can't seem to keep her nose out of interventions and regime changes. Et cetera. Should be easy, y'all are already on that track.

[NCTraveler]

20. Well said.

I posted a pro-Clinton op this morning that didn't say one word about Sanders. It was followed by numerous disgusting replies from Sanders supporters. They keep asking how we are going to get them to vote for her, yet an op that wasn't negative about Sanders in any way was disgustingly hammered by them.

[KPN]

27. Link?

[MoonRiver]

32. It's the last tiny bit of power they THINK they have.

I totally ignore these threats, because it serves no purpose to effectively blackmail someone over their choice for president. Just makes people more entrenched in their positions. It's very childish and UN-democratic.

[NCTraveler]

43. +1

Side note. I'm normally posting from my phone and don't see sig lines. I absolutely love yours.

[MoonRiver]

63. Thanks!

I was trying to show support for Hillary, without being too inflammatory toward Bernie's supporters.

[Lizzie Poppet]

23. Nothing, actually.

The vast majority of Hillary supporters here (I literally know only about half a dozen IRL) have made it very clear I have little in common with them. If they are indeed the face of the Democratic Party, then that party has nothing to offer me (a socialist) any more.

[farleftlib]

24. Oh bullshit

So what is the point of these types of OPs? What do you want us to say? Ok fine, we'll rescind our vote for Hillary, subvert the will of the 2.5 million more people who've already voted for Hillary, and somehow circumvent all the election rules to get Bernie the nomination? I really don't understand what you want from us.

Hyperbole much? All the election shenanigans and screw ups so far have benefitted HRC - all of them.

This isn't about having our hearts broken. This is about life and death - literally.

[RandySF]

30. I don't see

How the side that called our nominee a "crook" and a "whore" gets to call the shots. Join us or stay home.

[djean111]

33. Nothing.

If you are okay with war and fracking and Wall Street and no Single Payer and regime change and corrupt arms deals and unaffordable college and debt, and the TPP and other earth-raping job-killing "trade" agreements, then there is nothing I want from you.

If you don't care for some of the OPs, may I suggest not clicking on them, or putting DU members whose sentiments annoy you on Full Ignore. I use that a lot, it is lovely!

[KPN]

34. Why do Berners keep posting that they'll never vote for Hillary?

Probably because they won't vote for Hillary. Just to let you know. There's probably a little bit of tit-for-tat, rubbing-that-in-your-face as well ... human nature.

What do they want from Hillary supporters? Probably nothing.

[all american girl]

37. Well, that was a nice try.

I keep asking the same thing. I just don't understand what they want. And as you can see, I think they want to be angry, and I so understand. When Kerry lost, I literally cried for days. I also had to deal with people asking me what was up with us crazy Americans, with a look of pity on their faces.

[auntpurl]

51. It's a mystery.

People here in the UK keep giving me the side eye and asking if Americans are going to be crazy enough to elect Trump. I have to just say, "I sure hope not!" and keep my fingers crossed. Never underestimate the level of crazy in the American populace, that's my rule.

[all american girl]

64. Last week we were on spring break holiday

hanging out in Lisbon Portugal. Sat down at a cafe to have a beer. The table next to us were two couples from Liverpool. So we all started chatting. First thing they asked was about Trump, and they were laughing. I told them there was no accounting for taste with Americans. It is getting embarrassing, I have to agree with you.

[musicblind]

92. I feel you!

Every time I travel to a foreign country, I constantly feel the need to clarify that I'm not one of "those" Americans. Our country is so conservative it is embarrassing.

[LibDemAlways]

88. No, they want a nominee who espouses their values.

One who believes in peaceful solutions to conflicts. One who doesn't pocket Wall Street money like a kid in a candy store. One who opposes fracking. One who'll fight for universal health care and a living wage for all. One who thinks tuition free public education would be a good thing. One who protects American jobs rather than endorsing job killing trade deals and expansion of the horrific H1-B visa program.

Some of us have principles we aren't going to betray in the voting booth. We've settled for the lesser of two evils for too long and suffered in silence as our wages and working conditions have declined while the greedy 1% have enriched themselves at our expense. But go ahead and support your corporatist warmonger. Your vote. Your choice. I however could never be a party to what she represents.

[all american girl]

91. OK

[hamsterjill]

40. K&R

Well said!

[polichick]

45. Why should it be about you?

[auntpurl]

49. About me personally? It's not, obviously.

I was just asking what the point of these types of OPs is. Is it just shouting into the wind? Is it anger/sadness? Is it an attempt to exert some control? Because there is clearly nothing any Hillary supporter can do about the fact that more people have voted for Hillary than Bernie. Other than not vote for her, and I think you'll agree that it's ok for supporters of a candidate to vote for her, yes?

[polichick]

54. It's not about HRC supporters at all - imo you are blind followers...

It's about communicating with each other - those who understand how corrupt our "democracy" has become and want to do something about it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

53. Nothing asked, nothing given.

[randr]

58. Ask Hillary the questions we want answered

Don't pretend that our concerns are not your concerns.
Do you want Corporate money out of politics?
Do you want to incrementally creep into the next fossil free century?
Are you satisfied with our positions in the mid-east?
Do you want to see campaign reform?
Just a start so let us know when you get some satisfactory answers.

[auntpurl]

66. This is a good response.

Hillary has answers on some of these issues on her website. She is in favour of campaign finance reform and clean energy.

Mid-east: it's complicated.

Whether you believe she will do what she says she will do on these issues is another story. I believe her.

[randr]

70. I want to believe her yet

she has chosen to accept large PAC donors and still will not take a stand against fracking.
I think these issues are of some importance in who we choose to elect.

[auntpurl]

75. In my opinion

(and it's only an opinion) it's difficult to impossible for ANY candidate to stop taking PAC money until the laws are changed. You still have to be competitive. When everyone is on a level playing field, THEN we will see what candidates really believe.

Fracking: I don't like it either. But it DOES reduce our dependence on foreign fuel. Hillary has said her big priority is clean energy (and creating jobs in that sector) so we can STOP relying on these other sources.

[randr]

82. Bernie has proven the you can run without PAC money

He was totally ignored for the first few months by the media; he was far behind in polls to start; he has drawn the largest crowds in political history; he is on the right side of most ever argument American people are concerned about.
When I see Hillary actually come out and give new renewable technologies the same tax cuts and subsidies she has voted to give to the fossil industry I will accept her judgement on the fracking issue.

[auntpurl]

89. He's proven you can RUN without PAC money, but

not proven you can WIN without PAC money.

I think the Bernie campaign has been remarkable. He doesn't resonate with me, but I'm glad people have become more involved with the political process.

We won't know whether Hillary will do what she says she's going to do until she takes office. That's always the risk with politicians. And Bernie is also a politician, who may or may not do what he says he's going to do, same as the rest of them. Vermont didn't exactly battle-test him.

[randr]

90. This is true

Does the expression "good guys finish last" ring a bell?

[auntpurl]

93. For sure. Politics ain't softball in this country.

It's vicious, backbiting craziness. One of the reasons I support Hillary, I think she's a total bad ass. She can be properly nasty when she wants to, and that's how you get things done in DC.

Thanks for the civil discussion.

[randr]

95. You are welcome

I hope some day you will join us and just maybe we can stop the nastiness we have grown so use to.

[musicblind]

94. I thought it was "nice guys finish last?" n/t

[TheKentuckian]

60. Stop paddling the damn boat in the wrong direction and trying to meet the insane people

"somewhere in the middle".

The reason people are forced to feel "or bust" is because they feel that is the last and only control they have.

Can these people realistically expect a seat at the table?

Do they have any reason to expect good faith bargaining about the direction of the party?

Can they expect serious representation?

Will the cabinet be a who's who among the Turd Way and outright Republicans (particularly art Defense, the CIA, NSA, and the FBI where even a Democratic Administration insists that one be either a Republican now or at least have been one in the past)?

Is some Rubinite going to get the Treasury nomination? Who is going to be Chief of Staff, DWS?

Are we seriously going to pursue single payer?

Are we going to push to break up too big to fail or keep making it bigger?

Are we going to stop pushing fracking?

Going to cool down the pissing contests with Russia?

Are we serious about ending the drug war?

Are we going to defang an out of control police sector?

Are we going to turn from "regime change" and intervention?

Are we going to have another corporate lackey shoved down our collective throats in 4 or 8 years accompanied by variations of the usual refrains (aka Supreme Court, stop the crazies, you must be racist/sexist/anti gay or whatever demographic cudgel is available, I suspect Hispanic is the next stop.

What exactly are you willing to do and how locked in is that will (if any)? What do we have to assure your word is stuck to even if real concessions can be had?

[Silver_Witch]

61. I don't know - why do Hillary supporters do post after

..post of -Call it Skinner" or Bernie sneaks up behind Pope grabs him and makes him sahale his hand" or other silly tripe?

Stop calling out Bernie's supporters as being demanding. We ARE democrats too and we can vote for who we want too!

[auntpurl]

71. Oh, well, I haven't done any of that.

In fact, I replied to a "Drop out, Bernie" post today saying I disagreed. We're not a monolith. There're jerks on both sides.

Everyone SHOULD vote for who they want to! I was just wondering what the point of those specific OPs were, because there's nothing anyone can do about the fact that more people are voting for Hillary than for Bernie.

[jwirr]

99. She has nothing to offer us. She says she is against the

same things as we are but the past does not show that. I voted for Bill Clinton twice and what I and my family got back was tough on crime laws and welfare reform that almost destroyed my severely disabled daughter. And in the long run I go deregulation and Bush trade agreements.

I find it hard to believe she is now on my side. Or the side of my mixed race family. Not when all her money still comes from the same places.

[Silver_Witch]

134. You have a funny way of posting...

something seemingly nice and then being unkind. I noticed it in most of your posts. Interesting.

Have a nice evening.

[Armstead]

67. Stop demonizing liberal goals would be a healthy start

Another would be for the party message to stop being that anyone who is not center-right is a "far left" fringe element who is just looking for ponies.

Another would be to look at how Sanders has "walked the talk" instead of waiting for some elusive SC ruling to clean up campaign finance, and make it more accountable to people (small donors) iunstead of corporate Wall St. sugar daddies.

[jwirr]

72. Indeed IF this country were still a democracy instead of

an oligarchy you might be right. But since it is an oligarchy exactly what is the point of voting at all?

I realized just how little my vote meant and what it means for me as a delegate to the convention when I read "How Hillary Clinton Bought the Loyalty of 33 State Democratic Parties" and it was confirmed by the NY election. Exactly why does a rigged election need voters?

I watched our propaganda agencies tell us how elections in the USSR were so unfair because everyone was forced to vote for one person. Really? But it is worse here now. We put on a show of having a fair election while the establishment steps in by endorsing their choice long before the voters get any kind of choice. The media does not give equal coverage to candidates and we use buzz words to imply both dog whistles and false superiority.

So can you tell us what the benefit of voting is in a rigged election?

[Marrah_G]

73. What do I personally want?

Note: I am using "you" to mean Clinton supporters and not you in particular

I want you to wait until the primary is over before demanding we get in line.

I want you to have less arrogance and a little more empathy.

I want my liberal left values to be respected here and not mocked.

I want you to give me a reason to vote for her, something beyond "President Trump thanks you" or "It's about the supreme court stupid"

I want to not be spoken about as mentally ill, childish, anti-dem, destructive, teabagger, etc.

I want to be inspired not insulted.

I am honestly sick to my stomach over this election. Bernie gave me hope for a different, better future whereas Hillary in my mind is just more of the same, blocking a nightmare Trump Presidency.

I speak only for myself.

This is what I want.

[auntpurl]

80. Thank you for your reply.

I am happy to wait until the primary is over. In fact, I replied to a "Drop out Bernie" OP today saying I disagreed. I would like for him to cut back on the negative campaigning, but he can stay in as long as he wants, in my opinion. I would prefer it were over, but I'm not in charge (more's the pity, lol).

I think there are arrogant jerks on both sides on DU.

As long as your liberal left values include electing Democrats, then we are on the same side.

My reasons to vote for Hillary include gun control, women's rights, clean energy, college debt reduction, LGBT rights, increase in the minimum wage, and the fact I think she's awesome. I don't know if that's helpful.

I think the name-calling has gone both ways on DU.

I find Hillary very inspiring, but I understand that others don't. In 2008, I wanted to smack people who said "You're gonna love him! He'll grow on you!" about Obama. But you know what? He did grow on me. So I won't say, "Give her a chance, she might surprise you" because I remember how much that pissed me off, but, you know. I'm thinking it.

Sorry you're feeling sick to your stomach. I've felt that way in previous elections.

[musicblind]

96. This is a really good reply. n/t

[Owl]

115. Excellent reply!

[EndElectoral]

74. This election is about more than Bernie, it's about the continual erosion to the right of the party

[Schema Thing]

76. To realize how fast and loose you're playing with the country's future

at BEST, you're working, WORKING, to solidify the position of America-as-an-Oligarchy. That's a shitty thing to do when you have a good option to fight back against oligarchy.

At worst, you're putting Donald Trump or Ted Cruz in office, while simultaneously destroying the future (people under 49) of the Democratic party.


But hey, you're winners... so there's that.

[NorthCarolina]

81. I don't want anything from supporters of the establishment.

I want a fair, honest and representative government that isn't based in a system of graft. Neither Hillary nor her supporters can give me that. I will no longer concede to the demands of the establishment for conformance to their agenda.

[merrily]

83. No clue why you think I want anything from you.

I post in GD P because it's one of two places on this board that I can post about the primary.

Then again, I haven't said I won't vote for Hillary in the general, only that it doesn't matter, since I live in Boston.

[SamKnause]

85. Nothing.

[HooptieWagon]

101. Nothing. The bridges have been burned.

[PeaceNikki]

103. They want us to beg them on hands and knees, kiss their asses and tell them how stupid we are.

Then they want to spit in our faces and vote 'their conscience' anyway.

Fuck them

[NurseJackie]

119. "Validate me." --- "Make me feel like I have control." --- "Hug me please."

[Loudestlib]

104. I want nothing from supporters.

From a candidate, I want a progressive agenda. Less war. single payer, more regulation, all the things Hillary has opposed at one time or another.

[Waiting For Everyman]

107. I doubt that Bernie people post with Clinton people in mind very much.

Yes, some threads seem "addressed" to Clinton supporters, but most of what I see is Bernie people educating each other, and venting to each other when applicable.

The impression I get is that the Clinton side mostly posts talking points, and is pretty tone deaf and simply stonewalls facts they don't like, so it's largely a waste of time, which most don't seem inclined to do.

What I see is Bernie supporters mostly doing what I do too, staying out of discussions by Hillary's side and leaving those threads to their own echo chamber. This is a rare exception to my rule for me. Mostly because I just logged on and this was the first thread I saw before beginning the clean up I always do before reading.

Of course I could be wrong, as I have learned to look past the garbage and I do "trash can" an awful lot of threads, so maybe I missed what you're referring to.

In general though, I'd say: everything isn't about you.

What we want? We want an electorate that is informed enough about HRC to know that corruption is her governing model, and secondly, to be appalled enough by that to not vote for it "times two" as was done with the two Bushes.

[pdsimdars]

108. Come to your senses and switch to Bernie so we can actually win the GE

[TumbleAndJumble]

109. I am not telling a Hillary supporter what to do and I expect to be left to my own decisions as well.

[TransitJohn]

112. Just not to be blamed when she loses in November. eom

n/t

[B Calm]

113. Nothing!

[nolawarlock]

121. Great post

I've been wondering this myself.

I'll definitely pull the lever no matter which of them wins, and it seems as though most Hillary supporters feel this way, which is a long way from the PUMA mindset of 2008. But the amount of "I'm gonna take my toys and go home" mentality of the Bernie or Bust folks is way beyond anything back then, which makes me think that most of these people were never Democrats to begin with and are the types that usually always vote Green or some other party barely anyone has ever heard of. So, we never had them to begin with, and if we never had them to begin with, why the need to constantly remind us that they're there. Who cares if they aren't factors? They weren't factors to begin with.

[glowing]

127. Wait! Hillary has a message? Could have fooled me?

All I see is Clinton Machine, entrenched Democratic Party machinations, "my turn", and the line "I'm not as bad a Trump".

She has no message that I can figure out. The only things I know she WILL absolutely try and do is pass TPP, protect banks and wall st, open up more H1-b visas, dismantle social security as we know it (if she can manage it- there's normally pushback from the elderly voters when their money starts getting messed with, but Wall St wants that money), and an escalation of war in the ME. War is a great distraction for people drastically needing help now in this country.

But please, you feel she has a real message? Let me know what she actually stands for that will address the massive issues facing this planet and this country?

[lovemydog]

129. The posts that make me laugh the most

are the ones that say 'I don't know where Hillary stands on the issues.' Everyone has had a year to examine the differences between Hillary and Bernie on the issues. They disagree (primarily rhetorically) on some matters. They agree on more than 90% of the issues. Sanders himself has said repeatedly that Clinton is 'a million times better' than any of the republican candidates.

Those who keep asking this question should make themselves a chart. Share it with others. It's really easy if you read stuff other than hyperbole. Everyone posting here should know by now how each candidate, both republican and democratic, stands on the issues. And not the charts that only emphasize the issues where Sanders and Clinton disagree. Those are based more on rhetoric than on policy proposals.

Anyone who thinks congressional races including midterm elections don't matter should take a course in civics. They matter a lot. Democrats got trounced in the last midterms. Local, state and all federal elections matter a great deal. We need to win elections. Vote for the most progressive candidate available in every election every time. That's the only way we will improve anything politically in this country.

[RobertEarl]

130. Want?

Really? You have to ask?

We want a president who is not a warmonger. Yeah, we want world peace.

[aikoaiko]

131. You were heartbroken to have to vote for the more progressive Democrat in the GE?

I don't think there is much to talk about.

[BreakfastClub]

132. This isn't a purity contest. And Hillary is just as progressive as Obama anyway.

They have almost the exact same views on all the major issues. Sorry.

[aikoaiko]

133. Yeah, right, just as progressive. I don't recall Obama voting for the Iraq War,.

Do you? Was that one of her progressive stances?