2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe day after GW Bush was elected I felt this bad.
I have an internal moral compass, it works just fine. I know the difference between what is right for our country/planet and what will be horribly wrong for it.
Although I could not predict if Gore would have made things better I did not have to be psychic to predict that GW was going to make things far worse...looking back, 'far worse' turned out to be an underestimation.
Thanks to DU and especially Thom Hartmann I get it that unrestricted capitalism in a nation which has the largest military resources this planet has ever seen is a bad thing. No, nobody in DU nor has Thom Hartmann ever put it that way but this is the world's biggest problem as I see it.
My pain is less for the stupid my country does to itself, it is instead for the carnage that we cause worldwide. I have little doubt that our world, well the one outside this country bubble, is watching our election process from this very perspective.
bullimiami
(13,099 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)but other than that, Her is much more militaristic, more ethically challenged, and possesses far less charisma than W.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)best wishes to you.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)which means when it comes time to mislead America into yet another illegal, unethical war, she'll be able to sucker that much more of the populace-- and then IF any of us are alive ten years after the fact, we won't even have WikiLeaks to figure out just how wrong we were because PATRIOT Act and "Manhattan Projects against encryption".
chknltl
(10,558 posts)...we knew that then, know it now...he blamed Saddam for that war, nobody with half a brain agrees with him now. If we bomb/put boots on the ground in Iran who will we blame then? The Middle East is destabalized because of our being there AND due to the ravages of global warming. Will our next POTUS focus more on our world's problems or will he/she focus more on the needs of those who would take by force the resources of other countries?
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Call me a cynic, but her foreign policy record gives me no hope for our future.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)No pony for you!!
riversedge
(70,242 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)GWB is on the left of Hillary.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)My heart is heavy not because of differences.
Justice
(7,188 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)egalitegirl
(362 posts)The Clintons and Bushes are partners and very close friends. They even had a Bush Clinton Katrina Fund and a Clinton Bush Haiti Fund. These funds actually INVESTED the money collected in businesses like luxury hotels. That is a problem.
Both families wage illegitimate wars and support bailouts for Wall Street. So there is no difference between the two.
polichick
(37,152 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)egalitegirl
(362 posts)This is a clear endorsement of the BUSH FAMILY'S ACTIONS. Why should you be taken seriously when you claim to oppose Bush? Bushes are nice people who only have the good of Haitians are heart, right?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)pure enough for you. Got it.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)We have no idea what may happen in the next couple of months. As I've learned through living life - anything can happen.
Don't let them bring you down at this point when it's critical to hold your head up and believe just that - anything can happen.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)....with Clinton I hope that I am wrong. I had hope with President Obama but things did not turn out as I hoped. He did not help out as much as he could have with global warming issues and he did not do so well with a destabalized Middle East. It is no stretch to say that the world expected more out of him...it is no stretch to say that the world expects Clinton to do equally or worse than Obama.
splat
(2,294 posts)Keep your eye on the prize, we need you.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)I've no doubt that our country would be worse off under Trump or any republican.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)If you think that a Trump presidency could somehow be better for the world than a Clinton one, then I wouldn't even ask you for directions to the bathroom.
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)in Congress. Ask any Republican. The only thing Republicans hate more than Hillary would be a Socialist in the White House. Ask some of them how they feel about Bernie. The myth that they would vote for Bernie is just that. Oh and thanks to all the Naderites in Florida for giving us Bush/Cheney. "not a dime's worth of difference"?
bullimiami
(13,099 posts)Gore would have won Florida. Even with Jeb! and Katherine.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)you put this in nearly every thread.
you like rubbing salt in the wound? i always saw you as different than many supporters of your candidate. not wanting to get personal or mean.
whats up with the snark?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)I have nothing against catharsis in general. I do when someone I like and admire is the target of it.
I assure you if Bernie was beating Hillary DSB wouldn't be making post after post denigrating him and his supporters.
I am the antidote.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and fwiw, how are with all the viscious gloating, calling bernie and his supporters "losers" and calling for skinner to purge us?
sounds kind of out of bounds to me.
are you willing to say that some of the vile behavior here is coming from your associates?
i am willing to say that there has been nastiness in both directions. are you?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)He compared Clinton to Bush
and said in voting for Clinton the nation was inflicting stupid on itself:
Of course. That being said. As Sista Souljah said "two wrongs don't make a right but they damn sure make us even."
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)than when w was selected. does that mean i "like" w? no. i despise him. but i felt worse yesterday becsuse i am much more invested in bernie as pres than anyone before. doesn't mean i am comparing anyone to anyone else, just my feelings about different events.
only the poster knows what he or she meant, but i think it behooves all of us to not overinterpret comments made after a big win or loss when people are especially emotional.
and since the nom is to be running against trump, you hillary folks (if she is the nom) are going to have many similar ugly and depressing days. you will no doubt make emotional utterances from time to time. it happens, ya know? we all have our moments
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,841 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)Hillary will be one of our greatest presidents. Bank on it.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)MuseRider
(34,111 posts)both.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)..leaves me with far less optimism. I could not predict how bad GW would be for this world but i knew in my heart that it would be bad. I am fealing that exact fear right now.
riversedge
(70,242 posts):large
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)another "there's no difference between the two parties" bullshit post. This is getting disgustingly, pathetically, boring. I trust my moral compass way more than yours.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)They stole it, fair and square.
A country that can't even run fair elections and maintain accurate voter rolls nevertheless has a massive military and nuclear weapons. Yes, the world should be very afraid.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)...portion of our own party has no problem with military action around the globe. It was a tough pill to swallow when Obama went along with the surge to Afghanistan in 2009, and this pill is no less bitter. It is what it is. And what are the alternatives? They are all worse.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)An altar drenched in the blood of American servicemen.
DookDook
(166 posts)More Skulls for the Skull Throne
And maybe just to rub some more salt in the wound, they'll have "Fortunate Son" be her campaign song.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Khorne is a Chaos God of honor, not "flinging troops at meaningless causes while having no skin in the game herself". She's more along the lines of Nurgle, if you asked me.
Zira
(1,054 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Just like our next president.
HughLefty1
(231 posts)just like Hillary was pre-selected for this cycle. Debbie Wasserman can spin it how she likes but it is what it is.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)It is where my head is at. I vote Democrat up to and until it causes problems with my planet or my country. If Trump ran next time as a Dem I would see no problem in NOT supporting him. He would be a bad choice for my country. Having a D next to your name does not grant one an automatic vote from me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)chknltl
(10,558 posts)...would have cost us more lives than President Obama.
Domestically Romney would have emasculated himself politically had he actually pushed to overturn Roe V Wade.
Would President Romney have made things worse than they are in the Middle East? Probobly not, he would have been under the same constraints President Obama was. Would I have voted for Romney? Hell no, I had hope for a better world through Obama. That hope went unanswered and the world witnessed instead the ravages of increased global warming...and drone strikes!
I too believe that lives are at stake. Sanders gave me hope that he would better lead us away from the precipice that we are at with global warming, he gave me hope that he would not lead us off to further needless war in the Middle East. THESE LIVES MATTER TOO!
President Obama was given a Nobel Peace prize i believe because he offerd us hope for a better future world wide. With hindsight, i can not argue that he provided what the world hoped for. I do not see Clinton doing any better. I doubt the world is any less skeptical of her than I am. I guess it is up to a President Clinton to prove us wrong....if she can even get to that position.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lives matter and that Romney would have made a difference. I though, get it and find this comment incredibly uninsightful. Women and girls no longer have any wiggle room. Crunch time. We are out of options and choices to exercise our right over our health. I get that you think that does not matter. It is forefront for me though.
chknltl
(10,558 posts)In our country, I very much want the equality that we do not have. I do not know Hillary's position here but Bernie Sanders regularly shows his understanding of our nation's lack of equality in gender and racial areas. He promises to fight for equality in these areas. I believe him.
That said, would I accept the terrible status quo as a trade off for righting what we have done to the Middle East? Yes. I would even accept our horrible status quo for the promise that we won't make things worse for the Middle East.
Put yourself in the position of a mother over in Iraq, your kids' future (those that may be yet alive), is pretty bleak! ISIS may be offering them the best job available. Your ability to even feed your kids may be challanging at best and healthcare...welll it aint as good as it was when that asshole Saddam was alive! We did that to them.
We did that to them because they had oil and someone wanted Saddam to not have control over it. Do you as an Iraqi mother give rats butt over America's fight for equality? These lives matter to me. Because we did this to them these lives matter to me more than our internall fight for equality.
That said I believe we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can fight for our own equality while not exacerbating the problems in the Middle East. We can do both while leading the world away from the precipice of global warming. That is the hope i got from Bernie Sanders.
With Hillary I fear she may only at best push the fight for gender equality a little further than the status quo, I fear an exacerbation of problems from her with the citizenry of tbe Middle East and I doubt she will lead us anywhere good when it comes to a needed war against global warming. I think i have a darn good reason to be sad right now.
Yeah, I want equality but i dont want it held out as a bone that may or may not be given us while the Middle East gets burned even more and our planet gets even warmer. I fear the kind of equality that comes when humanity can no longer survive on this planet.
Planet first, country second, party third.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and opened up ties with Cuba?
chknltl
(10,558 posts)...to have done either on her own either. From her I would have expected Cuba to have been left as it was prior to Obama and a war in some fashion with Iran.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)was pretty much bull dung then, no?
chknltl
(10,558 posts)Do you think otherwise?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)25,000 ground troops back into Iraq?
chknltl
(10,558 posts)This grows tiresome. I do not trust Hillary to do good by the citizenry of the Middle East. There has been far too much carnage there and I expect her to exacerbate the nightmare for these people. I am incredibly upset over this.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Because that's not what I remember. I remember 2 stolen elections, following massive fraud and voter suppression in FL, then OH.
But yeah, it sucks to see that happening all over again.
I felt bad when my Primary candidate dropped out in '04. He quickly endorsed Kerry. I preferred my candidate, but realized Kerry was 100 better than Bush when it came to the issues important to me.
No, I don't feel Hillary Clinton is as bad as Bush. She is pro-choice.
Zira
(1,054 posts)I was supporting him.
Clinton would lose the same way if she is the choice.
Us hardline liberals will try to stop the worst evil but most people are not hardline liberals.
Kerry proved what happens when you don't inspire the masses. The DNC has done everything they can to lose the general. It started by kicking the independents who would have voted Dem and whom they continue to kick.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Not sure Bernie is, either.
I prefer Bernie but the people are speaking, and the majority want Hillary. That's democracy. But I will continue to fight and vote for the people and causes I believe in.
apnu
(8,758 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)smiley
(1,432 posts)We're headed down an even darker path if we are faced with only the possibility of Clinton or Trump.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)There is an enormous amount of fossil fuel burned just for transportation involved directly and indirectly.
It makes a huge joke of blaming global warming on the farts of livestock