Clintonites are in a deep state of denial.

[leeroysphitz]

They still believe that Clinton will unite the party. They think that eventually we will all support her out of fear. They are going to be incredibly shocked when we don't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross says hi./nt

[livetohike]

7. LOL!

[CoffeeCat]

152. Wow, the hubris and the mocking from you people

is over the top. You may want to check yourself. The FBI will be concluding their investigation very soon. According to the Los Angeles Times, the FBI was set to interview Clintons aids in April and Clinton soon after.

I would imagine that we will have firm answers sometime in May.

Did you ever think that you might guys might be the ones enduring some seismic grief, at that point? It's possible that our entire party will be upended, as well as this election.

Grief, Kubler-Ross jokes and...this guy----> may take on a whole different meaning at that point.

[Bluerome]

77. You think they get it?

[emsimon33]

106. No, they actually their hubris prevents them from seeing the abyss that lies before them.

[Bluerome]

109. I understand it. When Hillary lost in 08 I was pretty pissed myself

[bvf]

132. Your post would have looked marginally

less stupid if you had only managed to spell her name correctly.

It's Kübler-Ross.

You're welcome.

[KittyWampus]

156. Somebody calls another DU'er's post stupid because they didn't post an umlaut!

Your command of keyboard skills are SO IMPRESSIVE!

LOLZ.

[bvf]

189. No, the post is stupid all on its own.

The poster's misspelling of a proper name, cited in a futile attempt to look intelligent, just makes it even more so.

I hope this distinction isn't too subtle for you--you obviously missed it the first time.

[onehandle]

2. Oh Noes! nt

[NCTraveler]

3. I understand you won't support her.

Can you define "we" as you are using it.

It's clear "we" does not mean Sanders supporters. That would be foolish to make as a statement. Who are these "we" you are talking about.

[emsimon33]

107. I would say from my discussions with Sanders' supports that the "we" is 80%

It will be a blood bath.

[NCTraveler]

137. 80%. Lol nt

[rickford66]

111. "We" who have waited for a "Bernie"

Not more of the same. We don't want to vote against the Republican candidate. We want to vote for the Democratic candidate who really will represent "US". Many of the "We" may sit this one out.

[NCTraveler]

136. Still no distinction of we. Nt

[leeroysphitz]

145. +1000

[Godhumor]

4. Toodles n/t

[MoonRiver]

5. I DO NOT CARE WHO YOU SUPPORT.

My family will be fine if the Repukes take over (already looking into real estate in Vancouver just in case). You, probably not so much.

[grasswire]

12. wow

Elitist much?

[Arneoker]

144. Well I care, and I have no intentions of leaving this country

And my kids will have to live with the choices that we, and "you," make. But I can't stop anyone from exercising their right to indulge themselves, if that is what is important to you! As many Bernie supporters constantly lecture us, it's your vote!

[pinebox]

23. Oh look a 1%er supporting the 1%!

[Jennylynn]

29. Shhhhocking!

[renate]

26. how... nice for you, I guess?

I'm not sure what your point is.

[MoonRiver]

76. My point is that Hillary supporters keep getting threatened about what will happen

If Bernie people refuse to vote for Hillary. However, you will only be hurting yourselves if you carry through with your threats.

[Andy823]

81. The thing is

Many of the idiots that threaten the end of the world if Bernie does not win, or who constantly post how they will NEVER vote for Hillary, never voted for a Democrat in their entire life! We have a hell of a lot of right wing trolls here, Ron Paul supporters, Green party members, all kinds of posters who are not even who they claim to be. When posters continue to push their right wing talking points, most of them are pretty obvious, it's pretty much a safe bet that they are here to divide the boards and try and convince anyone gullible enough to NOT vote for the nominee if it's not Bernie. I will admit there are some new posters on the Hillary side who cause problems also.

We have had some long time trolls that finally got banned, but its like a hundred more come in every day to take their place. This board, DU-P has become a breading ground for their sick comments, and their ability to game the jury system to get rid of those they don't like, and to keep some of the trashiest thread I have ever seen from hidden. Any one with half a mind will vote for the nominee no matter which one it is.

I will be glad when the trolls leave and hide under their bridges till the next election.

[MoonRiver]

86. You are absolutely correct.

It will be awesome when we can concentrate on defeating Repukes and not eat our own anymore.

[MoonRiver]

184. Listen up jpb33, you don't know squat about me!

FDR is one of my heroes. If TR refers to Teddy Roosevelt, he's not one of my heroes for a number of reasons. I have been a liberal Democrat my entire life. Hung out with some real bad ass TRUE revolutionaries, like Black Panthers and SDS, in high school and college. Yes, I have calmed down a lot since then, and, along with my husband secured a nice nest egg, but don't you ever dare try to pigeon hole me. Thank you in advance.

[floriduck]

110. I can honestly say your belief that we'll come to Hillary's side is ripe and steaming bullshit.

At 66 years old, and a lifelong Democrat whose always voted for Dems, is not a "right wing troll". And if you think I am alone you, Andy, are way the fuck off your rocker. If it makes you feel better to think those of us who will support Bernie through the GE, then be my guest. But live and learn. We are real and we are not going anywhere.

If Hillary is the nominee and gets to the GE, good for you. But give up on your crazy right wing theory.

[rickford66]

115. Ditto. There may not be another chance like this for a long time.

[Squinch]

119. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We get it. You won't vote for her. So don't! Stop looking for our terror at

the thought of you rendering yourself politically irrelevant in this election. You're not going to find it. It isn't there.

It would have been nice to have you with us, but we will do just fine without you. So don't vote for her if you don't want to vote for her. But for God's sake, stop acting like we should all go into a tizzy about it. It really doesn't matter. You've made your choice, now move on.

[rickford66]

182. Go back to your walled-in group where "WE" can't post.

[Squinch]

183. No.

[rickford66]

185. Go on. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[Squinch]

186. What are you, the crossing guard?

[rickford66]

187. If all you want is to win? Vote for Hillary.

The rest of us want much more and you don't understand. So, off with you. Go, Scoot.

[Squinch]

188. You are very, very deep. And that's lucky that winning isn't important to you.

[rickford66]

190. So if you win, the prize will be a White Elephant.

Not all of us are young people looking for free stuff. Now. Get off our lawn.

[Squinch]

191. Are you playing with the refrigerater word magnets again?

[rickford66]

192. Gave em to Salvation Army after the kid grew up.

You can cook it or mix it any way and it's still liver! I go for a Ben and Jerry's thank you.

[demosincebirth]

129. I suggest that those who don't support the Democratic nominee and say so verbally, here on

DU, should not be able to post on this site.

[leeroysphitz]

193. Then it's nice that you aren't at all in charge of such things. n/t

[demosincebirth]

194. Most likely you're lucky

[leeroysphitz]

196. Oh I'm sure that I'll get it in the next purge. Luck has to run out sometime.

until then

[demosincebirth]

198. Remember, if you don't vote you have no right to complain. I know sour grapes are hard to

swallow.

[nolawarlock]

131. Well said. N/t

[leeroysphitz]

180. OMG you're right! I'm a paid operative here to futilly try to chip away at the

monolithic love All democrats have for Clinton. ;P

[emsimon33]

112. Not really. I actually fear a Hillary presidency as much as a Trump or Cruz presidency.

Hillary may support a woman's right to choose but she will dismantle the safety net, have us in perpetual war, support "trade" agreements that will beggar the middle class and put even more people into poverty and prisons. And she will cry "foul" and "misogynists" any time we try to pull her at least to the middle.

[redstateblues]

116. Lumping one of the most liberal Senstors when she was in Congress

With Cruz et al makes you look foolish

[emsimon33]

118. It is not who they are but what the outcomes will be

[athena]

171. They seem to expect us to beg them to vote for Hillary.

They don't seem to realize that they, too, live in this country and will be just as hurt by a Republican presidency as we will be.

[bjo59]

28. That comment pretty much says it all.

[demmiblue]

157. Indeed it does. n/t

[Lazy Daisy]

45. Honestly I think you have that backwards

If Republicans win and you move to Vancouver you will lose your home. Not home as in a house, but home as in where your memories take you, where your family ties are, where most people feel safe and secure. And it's not like you can just up and become a citizen of another country, so you'll still be bound by US laws as a US citizen. You've lost your home and you still have all the craptacular legal restrictions.

Now, being you have the financial ability to leave the country if you so choose, supporting Hillary is much more ideological than why most people support Bernie. Being financially stable allows you the romance of "The first female President" and hide behind that
"most qualified" mantra. There is enormous evidence Hillary Clinton is a very bad choice, but those who can afford to strategize their exit plan should their choice blow up in the countries face don't care to look at what a Clinton Presidency would mean for the rest of us.

What Hillary supporters call "artful smears" the rest of us call facts and reality.

As for me and mine... we'll be just fine. The Bush Presidency took everything away, the Obama Presidency (although I still support him) hasn't done much to take the blockades away for us to get back what we lost. I've gotten very good at scratching out a meager life and have even found some things about myself to like even more. I have a loving support system and will never go homeless or hungry. After that I don't have anything else to lose.

[Ghost Dog]

62. Well said

(esp. the self-knowledge & loving support system ).

[annavictorious]

84. I still wonder if we wouldn't have been better

with Hillary in 2008 and Obama now. You are right about Bush, but remember who was at least partially responsible for his election. Gore was vilified as not being progressive enough by both the media and their preferred Democrat, Bill Bradley. And that righteousness opened the door for Nader.

Gore was stiff, he wasn't authentic, he wasn't truthful, he was a throwback, he wasn't pure enough. Sound familiar? So instead of an environmentalist activist, future Nobel Peace Prize laureate as president, we got W.

Be careful about weaponizing your vote. The collateral damage can be devastating.

[Lazy Daisy]

98. Partially responsible?

No. Gore didn't get elected because he didn't earn the vote.

My vote is not a weapon, it's earned. Don't blame people for not voting for an unattractive candidate. Maybe Democrats should have put up a candidate that could earn more votes instead of someone who it was thought was his turn. Sound familiar?

The party should be careful about putting up candidates it perceives to be their turn. The collateral damage is very devastating.

[seekthetruth]

128. In a year we'll be saying....

.....thanks Democratic Party for giving us Donald Trump. Do you think we progressives support a war candidate?

Not playing this game any longer. I'll vote for who I damn well please. I'm an American, and I'll vote for the person who has courage and decency to stand up to these oligarchs. Your candidate does not, hence my choice for Sanders.

[hereforthevoting]

130. I FTFY

Democrats should have put up a candidate that could earn more votes instead of someone who it was thought was her* turn

[redstateblues]

117. Naderites in FL gave us BushCheney

Not a dimes worth of difference? Really?

[Kentonio]

135. No, vote fraud in FL caused BushCheney. Blaming the Nader people is just lazy.

It's also incredibly undemocratic. If someone doesn't believe in the candidate we're running, then that's on us, not them.

[leeroysphitz]

181. "weaponizing your vote"

Look who's talking lol
You don't seem to want a candidate. You're looking for a steamroller.
It doesn't work that way.

[emsimon33]

114. OMG, so beautifully said!

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. That statement speaks well volumes

[Marrah_G]

56. typical

[SHRED]

101. When W was in we looked there

Canada is not easy. They do not let you just live there.

[northernsouthern]

113. Tell me you are supporting Bernie!

Because the depths of Irony from a person that is talking about leaving the US to get away from a Republican win by migrating to a country with lead by the very liberal Trudeau who is the son of the late Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, a former socialist leader and also a country with universal healthcare???? Wow you get three Alanis Morissettes...

v
v
v

[polly7]

121. We try to take care of one another up here .... single payer health and other basic human

rights that require collective empathy and compassion.

You might not make a very good fit.

[jpb33]

138. This

person is a perfect example that the Dem party is no longer the party of FDR, but the party of a bunch of rich intellectual elitists. No longer real Democrats but Clinton/Reagan Republicans who are only in the Dem party bcuz the dem party agreed to sell out the middle class and working class while Clinton was President.

[MoonRiver]

164. If I'm not a real Democrat WHY would I want to leave the country if a Repuke wins the presidency?

We went through 8 years of hell under bush, and I do not relish enduring that again. Think about it.

[coyote]

143. And there it is

I´ve got mine, fuck everyone else. You never were a Democrat, were you.

[MillennialDem]

158. I'm working on getting my German citizenship - out of here unless by

some miracle Bernie wins (ie NOT THAT I WISH THIS but Hillary dies before the convention or is indicted etc)

[Nedsdag]

195. Really?

I'll be fine as well, which is why I'm leaving the presidential slate blank in November.

[Dem2]

6. They just don't get clintonian physics

[boston bean]

8. This clintonite isn't. I don't care whether you do or not. It's on you to come to terms

with who you will vote for.

[Orsino]

9. Another goddamned "supporters" thread. n/t

[Happyhippychick]

10. Excuse me. Do you think electing Hillary is something you are doing for Hillary supporters?

Or do you see a bigger picture?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

13. Please predict or summarize five ways President Clinton will reward progressives and....

...progressivism.

Thanks in advance.

[Happyhippychick]

16. You can ask President Trump his agenda, that might be special.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

18. This is the answer to the very serious question I asked? This is how anyone from Bernie's camp...

...is going to be treated if we dare to begin considering whether or not to reconsider our attitude towards Hillary and her supporters?

Also, I have NEVER, EVER expressed so much as any interest in what tRump has to say so why the fuck would I start now? If you think it would "be special" to ask tRump about his agenda, then you do it.

So, this is how you're going to build a bridge to Bernie supporters? Jesus H Christ!

[Happyhippychick]

83. You think I owe you an explanation? Or I should be "building a bridge" so that you'll vote hillary?

Oh my, that is one inflated sense of entitlement you've got there.

You need to do your own homework and answer your own questions. Nobody owes you a thing.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

91. So, really, you CAN'T list anything Hillary will do for Progressives. Got it. nt

[Happyhippychick]

92. If you had asked sincerely instead of with so much

self righteous anger (and cursing which is distasteful) then maybe I would. But you are just angry and looking for a punching bag.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

99. What planet are you on? Here is my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511792802#post13

Please predict or summarize five ways President Clinton will reward progressives and progressivism.

Thanks in advance.

Please point out the 1) insincerity, 2) the self-righteous anger, and 3) the cursing.

I'll wait right here...

ETA: Here was YOUR response to my post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1792943

"You can ask President Trump his agenda, that might be special."

Any of the items you list came AFTER this shitty post.

[dsc]

148. either Garland or her appointee to SCOTUS

will save abortion rights, prevent gay rights from being undermined by religious freedom exemptions, permit the President to combat greenhouse gasses, save the ACA, and likely overturn Citizens United.

She will appoint regulators who will actually enforce environmental regulations, financial regulations, labor friendly regulations, and so on.

to clarify if we lose this election no way Garland gets approved, if we win he likely will be.

[Lazy Daisy]

46. That's not reason enough

to vote for anybody

[leeroysphitz]

54. I see Reagan-lite running as a democrat. n/t

[Lucinda]

88. Then you probably haven't done your homework. n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

100. Progressives DON'T VOTE FOR WAR THAT KILLS THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. nt

[Kittycat]

122. And then go back for more 'regime change'

as an effort to plunder resources of another country with their rich friends.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

123. Doh! You said Libya!!!

[Kittycat]

124. You could also say Honduras...

Libya didn't work out so well though, did it?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

126. Which goes to show that her actions are not always the smart ones. But, hey, as long as she, and...

...Bill, and the Oligrachy made a buck, that's a-ok!

[reddread]

165. they did some really fine work down in Haiti too

[Zira]

93. +1

[ChisolmTrailDem]

11. Disruptive meta. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. It's okay for folks to be self referential from time to time.

After a few drinks I slip into talking about myself in the third person.


Keep your sense of humor.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

21. The OP is disruptive meta. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. If you say so. If it was cathartic for him I won't begrudge him.

OTOH Immanuel Kant said if you have qualms about pursuing a particular cause of action you should ask yourself how you would feel if your course of action was made into a universal law.

You are right. If everybody made a self referential thread on this board at the same time this board would be a mess.

[leeroysphitz]

32. wah.

[CentralCoaster]

14. Also, the delusion that she represents the best interests of POC and LBGTQ.

For a handful here, who I don't think speak at all for those demographics, you'd think they are the very base of the party, exclusive of so may others like:

Women who aren't members of either group,
Union workers who aren't members of either group,
Students who aren't members of either group,
Immigrants who aren't members of either group,
Minimum wage workers who aren't members of either group,

We're all in this together regardless of "group membership", and Clinton does NOT have our backes!

[all american girl]

34. No one speaks for all demographics

And that means you also...come on man

[seabeyond]

15. We can't unite what was never a part of the Democratic Party.

[jcgoldie]

17. You are responsible for your vote

Not anyone else.

[closeupready]

20. I do think her husband is telling her, "where are they going to go? hehe, lol."

And while that outlook worked well for Democrats in the 90's, we now know that people will get their hair done, do their laundry, watch TV instead.

She believes that she can afford to dismiss dissenters. Fine with me. Financially, I will do better if Sanders loses. Which is NOT why I supported him.

[SFnomad]

22. Back in 2008, the PUMAs thought they were all that, they were wrong. So are the BS Cheerleaders n/t

[JoePhilly]

31. + 100

[strategery blunder]

57. Obama didn't have a 55% unfavorable rating in 2008, either.

Hillary will be lucky to break 45% in a GE

[SFnomad]

64. And BS couldn't beat someone with a 55% unfavorable rating ... shows how weak BS is, eh? n/t

[leeroysphitz]

67. It was a closed dem primary, genius.

[SFnomad]

70. About 250 total pledged delegates behind, 2.5+ million fewer voters, genius.

This isn't just one state.

The denial runs deep grasshopper.

[strategery blunder]

75. Hillary's ONLY support is within the Democratic party.

She can't win independents, as has been proven over and over again in states with open caucuses/primaries, and Rs will crawl over broken glass to vote against her.

Neither independents nor Rs were allowed to vote for Bernie yesterday. Yes I know the rules provided for a closed primary, but the general election ain't like that. Not at all.

Like it or not, she will need the indies in the general. If Hillary supporters keep telling independent voters that their support is not needed, the primary will represent Hillary's ceiling of support. And that, I hope we can all agree, would be a disaster.

[SFnomad]

82. What a steaming pile. n/t

[COLGATE4]

24. I don't think anyone is going to support her out of 'fear'.

They are going to support he because 1) she's the best candidate and 2) they don't want President Donald Trump.

[HooptieWagon]

27. They want a small tent party, as long as they can roll in corporate $.

At some point, the tent will become so small that corporations will turn off the spigot. Then they'll be standing around wondering where everybody went.

[all american girl]

36. It seems to me that Bernie's tent might be just a bit smaller

She's won, by higher percentages:
-older people...people over 35 or 40 I think
-AA women
-AA men
-white women
-Hispanic women

I'm not sure about Hispanic men, though.

That's kinda a big tent...and the backbone of the Democratic party

[HooptieWagon]

40. Millenials of all races/both genders are for Bernie.

If the Dem Party only cares about rich old people, then it will get much smaller when they start dying.

[all american girl]

43. I can only speak for me and those in my family

I don't think I'm old, just turned 50...redefining old

I don't think we are rich...we aren't the 1%, by any means

But the democratic party is not just young people, it's people of all stripes, even the ones you think are going to just die off.

[HooptieWagon]

44. I'm older, with a great number of X and millenial friends.

They are sick and tired of war, want environmental issues addressed, and are pretty much fucked economically...home ownership is out of the question, paying off college loans iffy, and not good prospects job-wise in this era of offshoring jobs and stagnant wages. They don't give a shit how well Wall St is doing, as they'll never own stocks in their life. All they can hope for in retirement is that the Third Way doesn't go bi-partisan with GOP and privatize Social Security. The Dem Party establishment offers little for them. They would remain Dems in support of Sanders direction for the Party. 2/3 of Independants support Sanders. Give those voters a reason to be Democrats, and the Democratic Party will out-number Republicans by a 2:1 margin, and win large numbers of elected offices.

[Ghost Dog]

72. Very nicely put

(my experience is similar over here).

But all american girl can only speak for, she says, and care about, probably, herself and her family. Thus, Clinton.

[Agony]

97. thank you, thank you, thank you...

how many more times can i say that?

cheers anyway, right?

[OilemFirchen]

89. They don't need no stinkin' tent.

They have a yuuuuuge man cave.

[seekthetruth]

30. Exactly.

Don't force me to abandon my allegiance to support any efforts to get us off of fossil fuels. I prefer not to support a candidate who chooses to side with companies that implement such destructive practices.

It's a sad day when "Progressives" choose politics as usual vs. fighting to keep our water, air, and environment healthy for future generations.

Just something that Clinton supporters do not get or care about. I'm tired of people saying that we can't move away from fossil fuels now when the earth so badly needs us to!

[annavictorious]

85. I blame the progressives who threw their votes

to Nader over Gore in 2000 because Gore was a stiff, inauthentic liar who was part of the establishment. When you weaponize your vote, you reap what you sow.

[seekthetruth]

120. ????

Fallacious. What does Gore have anything to do with the Supreme Court decision, and the current state of affairs? Did Gore vote for the Iraq war? Did Gore promote the continuation of fracking, something that releases, what, 60% more CO2 into the atmosphere? Someone whose foundation might be under investigation for possible connection with the Panama Papers?

Id take Gore over Clinton anyday friend.

Apples and oranges.

[Adrahil]

33. Another "vote for Bernie or else" post.

Look.... if you're determined to take your toys and go home, just rip the band-aid off and do it. I will not vote for Bernie because of the dumb-ass "Bernie or Bust" threat.

[ViseGrip]

39. funny, you ignore them all.

[Adrahil]

41. Of course, I do.

I'm not in the habit of capitulating to threats.

[peacebird]

71. "I'm not in the habit of capitulating to threats" - Me either, that's why the whole "vote for Hils

Because otherwise you get Trump or Cruz" just isn't going to work......

[litlbilly]

127. I look at a Hill pres just to be close to as bad as cruz or trump, at least for the 99%. thats

why the cruz or trump bullshit doesn't fly

[peacebird]

166. Me too.

[NurseJackie]

61. OP Translation: "Hug me." "Validate me." "Make me feel important and in-control."

Or ...



... the all-purpose generic one-size-fits-all so-angry-I-forgot-what-I-was-mad-about temper-tantrum.

[litlbilly]

125. another ignore...

[tularetom]

35. How do we signal the Clintons that we disapprove of their cynical approach to governance

without electing a president that may be just as bad?

[anigbrowl]

38. That's your problem

If you think Clinton and others aren't paying keen attention to the issues Sanders is raising and how they might affect future election cycles, then I disagree with you, in fact I think Bernie has overall done a good job of invigorating the left and pulling Hillary in that direction. But I can't take you seriously when you imply that HRC is somehow the worst politician ever to run for office and that one of the republican opponents 'may' be just as bad. That's a giant false equivalence and if you can't see that then you're not living the real world any more, but in some ideological fantasy world.

[tularetom]

50. Where the fuck did I imply that HRC is somehow the worst politician ever to run for office?

If you can interpolate that from what I actually posted, then you are the one that is living in "some ideological fantasy world".

I do however stand by my statement that one (or more) of the republican opponents may be just as bad. However, the republicans may have a free for all at their convention so I suppose it's conceivable that they may nominate somebody that isn't as bad.

And by the way, don't feel bad about not taking me seriously. The feeling, as you may have guessed, is mutual.

[leeroysphitz]

51. They are paying just enough attention to copycat

Sanders and jump his train. Clinton doesn't care about futur election Cycles. Clinton cares about getting elected.

I almost shit when Clinton said her supporters were all small donors like Sanders. lol Who the f@ck dies she think she's fooling? Oh and all of a sudden the shameless corporatist is for a hike in the minimum wage, in an election year. Ooh what a bold stance.

And Sanders' decency stopped him from calling Clinton out on her vote for the Bankrupcy bill when she asked him to cite an example of how she is influenced by her 1 percent wallstreet buddies but we all remember.

[anigbrowl]

37. Think again

I'm quite well aware that there's a faction on the left wing of the Democratic party that is more concerned with the purity of their socialist ideology than with practical matters. I say that not because their goals are unworthy but because they consistently show little interest in making partial or slow progress towards their goals, but demand total victory in as short a time as possible, and show no interest in learning anything that might cause them to change their opinion on, well, anything.

I don't rate politicians on the nobility of their goals. I rate them on the probability that they're going to advance progress towards those goals. If I just wanted someone with noble goals I'd write in former Miss World contestants, who virtually all say they want to establish world peace and abolish suffering.

But the reality is that anyone who tells you to focus on how worthy their goals are and not worry too much about how we get there is essentially making a religious argument and I don't buy those from politicians, any more than I buy the idea that fundamentalist church people are actually going to prevent my soul from ending up on some infernal barbeque as long as I turn up every week and drop money on the collection plate.

[JoePhilly]

47. Excellent, should be its own OP.

[riderinthestorm]

68. Climate change can't wait for incrementalism. Hillary’s positions doom us

Go ahead and vote for certain catastrophe.

The rest of us have to live with ourselves.

Madame President's legacy will be presiding over the entire upheaval of our way of life (well, except for her 1% friends of course). She will be globally despised for her "incrementalism" instead of taking bold leadership on this from Day 1.

You and the other Hillary supporters own that. I for one will be able to go forward with a clear conscience.

[anigbrowl]

167. Must be fun up there on that moral high horse of yours

I've been promoting action on climate change for 25 years and I think Hillary's gradualist approach will be much more effective than Bernie's simplistic but impractical position. Forgive me if I don't take your dramatic predictions of doom too seriously, because I have no reason to think you possess special insight into the future.

Or don't, I don't really care what you think about me. I don't take people seriously when they argue as if Hillary Clinton was worse than the GOP alternative. The reality I'm looking at is that the President's powers are really quite limited and without a specific plan on how to work through agencies and Congress not much will be achieved. Bernie is great at laying out big goals but I have little confidence in his ability to execute them.

[riderinthestorm]

169. Its too late for the "gradual" approach which you'd know if you've really been paying attention

I will have a clear conscience in 4-5 years as severe weather patterns and environmental catastrophes begin to escalate.

[anigbrowl]

170. Sez you

I don't really give a shit about your conscience seeing as how I have been warning people about this issue in particular and environmental issues in general for decades now. But you're not actually making any proposals about what to do or making any effort to address the obstacles that lie in the way of those proposals, you're just posturing to feel good about yourself. Enjoy.

[riderinthestorm]

174. Says every climate change expert

Bernie actually has solid proposals, much more ambitious than Hillary’s. He's vowed to make climate change a top priority. Hillary’s vowed to meet with war criminal Netanyahu and offer US for whatever Israel wants, er, needs (war with Iran).

He's also against fracking, the TPP, endless wars which also put enormous stress on the environment etc.

I'm not posturing. Bernie’s not posturing. The experts on this aren't posturing.

Go ahead and believe we have all the time in the world to address climate change.

You're wrong but hey, it won't be me telling you I told you so...it will be mother nature.

Good luck trying to tell her different.

[Ghost Dog]

95. But, where has been this "partial or slow progress towards (social) goals"

since, say, Carter's term.

Have such (traditional) goals been abandoned? And where indeed are the Clintons' and their cohort's urgent goals as regards climate change and its socially-damning consequences?

[anigbrowl]

168. Disingenuous

Try her website if you are interested in her climate change plan. I'm not here to give you a sales pitch.

[Tarc]

42. I think the bigger fear is that the white males of the Sanders camp may be realizing

that they aren't really needed.

[geek tragedy]

48. you're free to leave, and we're free to not care what you say. bye nt

[leeroysphitz]

66. So, love it or leave it you say... What a shock n/t

[KingFlorez]

49. I beg to differ

The "Bernie or Bust" crowd is a lot less smaller than you think it is.

[TMontoya]

53. Good

We don't need your support.

[Lil Missy]

55. You flatter yourself. Hillary will do just fine without you.

You're not that important.

[leeroysphitz]

59. That's right... YOU built this. n/t

[YouDig]

58. There are hard feelings right now for sure, but hopefully Bernie will be able to help in

unifying the party, by making the case about how important keeping the White House is. I'm optimistic that we will come together in the end.

[MineralMan]

60. Please proceed...

But please don't overestimate the number of people who agree with you.

[xloadiex]

63. Let's all just congratulate

Citibank, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan Chase, etc, etc,etc on their win in NY yesterday.

[Zira]

94. +1 And that is exactly what happened.

[Squinch]

65. Well, YOU won't support her. But by admitting that, you have made yourself irrelevant.

The rest of us will be just fine without you.

Ta ta.

[leeroysphitz]

146. .

[Katashi_itto]

69. K&R

[baldguy]

73. I thought we were rid of the PUMAs 8 yrs ago.

They were correctly relegated to the slimy rocks they crawled out from under.

Is this a "new" voting block for Sanders to try to woo?

[kstewart33]

74. I can see that you're handling Bernie's NY defeat very well.

Whoa, that's a bit presumptuous, don't you think?

[bjo59]

78. They won't get it until staring

the cold, hard fact right in front of them, up real Close and personal where they can be sure to see it. Human beings have a very marked capacity to replace actual reality with their own self or group manufactured fantasies. I'll leave them to their dreamland and continue supporting the only candidate who represents the slightest possibility of altering the highly destructive course this country is rocketing down without a second thought. And we all, even his enemies, know who that candidate is.

[annavictorious]

79. Clinton can unite the PARTY,

because the problem isn't a party problem, but there will be problems with hard-core Sanders partisans. I was a very strong Hillary supporter in 2008, so I feel their pain. Hopefully many will be able to vote D, but I'm sure some won't. Do the right thing, whatever you think it is.

Hillary supporters need to remember 2008 and be compassionate.

[jmg257]

80. And some just don't care what you do. Big people can make big decisions on their own. nt

[Starry Messenger]

87. *shrug*

I can't be bothered with people who decide to hold their breath out of pique.

[seabeyond]

90. Clinton supporters? Just like Sanders supporters. Are this cutesy name calling for Clinton supporter

is simply coming off as childish.

[eastwestdem]

96. I just got yelled at on another thread, but I will certainly vote for Hillary rather than any repub

I certainly can't speak for anyone else, but the alternative seems like I would be shooting myself in the foot.

[EndElectoral]

102. K&R

[apcalc]

103. Your vote...do what you want

[OhZone]

104. Funny, despite the extremism of some of the worst of the online Bernie Supporters -

more Bernie fans say they will support Hillary in 2016 than Hillary supporters said would support Obama in 2008.

Oh well.

[emsimon33]

105. Yep, we did unite behind Obama and his surrogate called us "retards"

and Obama disbanded the very grassroots that got him elected--the 50-state strategy of the now turn coat and sell out, Howard Dean.

Hillary has a much meaner and more entitled spirit and the Clintons take names and do not forget or forgive. If we think we got shafted by Obama, just wait to see what will happen under a Clinton presidency: She will dismantle the entire safety net, at least what is left after what her husband did. We will be in perpetual war. Wall Street will become even more of a rigged casino, but now playing with our Social Security. It will be a disaster! More "trade" giveaways to corporations, beggaring the middle class and pushing even more people into poverty and prisons. Plus, the Republican base hates her even more than they hate Obama, so there will be grid-lock and the grassroots who would usually be calling representatives and rallying will have left the Party and will be gearing up for 2020 and another chance to try and save the country.

[leeroysphitz]

141. +1

[Mike Nelson]

108. Not I...

...I won't be shocked. I've seen a lot of the posts, right here on DU. A group of Bernie supporters will never support Hillary . It's been obvious for some time.

[nolawarlock]

134. All this Bernie or Bust stuff is just flouncing

And who cares? If they are never going to vote for Hillary, it's very likely they never were going to vote for her either. Why should any of us nbe upset about cookies mother was never going to give us?

They're hoping to blackmail us into supporting Bernie since their threat, like the PUMAs of 2008, is that theirs is the only candidate they're consider and without them we can't win so pick their choice.

Only problem is, Hillary will win without them. Nearly every Republican I know is talking about voting for the Dem because they hate Trump so bad. Hillary's going to win no matter if these thinly veiled Green Party voters don't come out for her. She won't need them. Mark my words. It won't matter. The bulk of the true Democrat Bernie supporters will come around just as nearly every Hillary person would come around for Bernie and as most Hillary people came around for Obama after basically performing the same song and dance in 2008 that Bernie people are now. It fell flat eight years ago and it falls flat now.

I question a lot of these alleged lifelong democrats on here. Is it me or are half them "66 years old" or have voted for "forty years." I'm not saying none are real but it does rather seem as though many of these diehard Bernie fans have similarly templated stories.

[wyldwolf]

139. Define "unite the party."

Otherwise, if Hillary got 99% of the Democratic vote, you'd claim she didn't unite the party because 100% of Dems didn't vote for her.

[randome]

142. PUMAS 2016. It didn't work in 2008, it won't work now.

If you're just going to give up and go home...go.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[pdsimdars]

147. This fits right in with an OP I just read. . . . THIS

It hits at the heart of it. . . . Really WHAT do you support?

[leeroysphitz]

149. This. And her national negatives are really going to hurt our party in the general. n/t

[pdsimdars]

176. She should have run as a Republican, with folks who think like she does.

[Betty Karlson]

150. privilege isa surefire way to disconnect from reality.

exhibit A: Clnton's campaign and its strategy.

[leeroysphitz]

151. Privilege and a VAST sense of entitlement. n/t

[B Calm]

153. She hasn't done anything to win over us marijuana smokers.

[RiverLover]

154. We've reached The Tipping Point.

No More.

[rjsquirrel]

155. No you have that wrong

I do not in fact care if you support the democratic candidate or stay home or write in Bernie or vote for Trump.

Working class, women, minority, and older voters who actually show up will be there for our first woman president.

The denial is all on you end.

[MillennialDem]

159. You just pissed on millennials, who likely would have been the biggest generational voting

bloc in 2016.

Now you'll have to wait for 2020 or 2024 to count on our support.

[rjsquirrel]

160. Lol right

I pissed on an entire generation.

Come out and vote sometime if you want me to take you seriously. Millennials have proved their 6% of the electorate is not to be counted on over and over again. I do not know why your generation doesn't vote but given your naive idealism and lack of sense of political reality (or the suggestion that there are Americans who don't agree with you and they are no less American for that) I'm sort of glad this time.

Could have used a few of you in 2010 and 2014. But I guess there were no idealistic white saviors promising you a chicken in every free college tuition bill back then.

[MillennialDem]

161. I've voted in every election, including primaries and special elections since 2006. This is the firs

t time I'm going to sit it out.

Millennials would have turned out in record numbers for BS.

[rjsquirrel]

162. Good have fun

You may have voted, but you don't represent "millennials," who most definitely did not vote in high numbers when heir votes could have turned the tide of history for progressives in the last two midterms.

Bernie is discovering right now how reliable young voters can be, even when they are all excited and have thrills running up their legs at his pie in the sky promises.

Where were they in NY? You may vote, but your comrades in revolution apparently can't muster or get their shit together. And then you blame others for their apathy and laziness and distraction.

The numbers don't lie.

[athena]

172. That explains everything.

You don't remember 2000, so you think you will teach the Democratic Party a lesson by not voting.

Those of us who lived through 2000 and supported Nader using the same arguments Bernie supporters are using today saw that Bush winning did not move the Democratic Party to the left; it did the opposite.

[MillennialDem]

163. 51% of eligible millennials voted in 2012. That's only 4% less than the overall vote. But hey

fuck it, don't let the facts stop you.

That said I will enjoy not voting (game theory says at the individual level, not voting in smart). Or writing in Bernie Sanders or voting for Jill Stein.

And again it ignores my point. If Bernie was on the ballot, we might get 55% turnout again this year like in 2012. And I wouldn't be surprised if 55% of millennials turned out to vote.

[Stuckinthebush]

175. Well said

Hillary will do what she can but the decision is theirs. Vote or don't vote. But stop whining!

[rjsquirrel]

178. Exactly

How is threatening not to vote for Hillary supposed to convince me or anyone else to support Bernie?

It has the opposite effect, rest assured.

[Stuckinthebush]

179. It is simply lashing out

Anger. Sadness. Frustration.

They will vote for Hillary in the General - well, most will.

[beachbumbob]

173. Sour grapes...Heard all the same 8 yrs ago from Hillary supporters

And yet they accepted the fact keeping a conservative out of the whitehouse is way more important than pettiness...

[MrWendel]

177. LMAO!

[DrDan]

197. oh well - Bernie will not be facing this issue