2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie is going all the way
Chris Hayes and Nick Confessore, Political Reporter for The New York Times, discuss further evidence that the Sanders campaign will not concede before the convention.
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/bernie-is-going-all-the-way-672120387540
TDale313
(7,820 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)I love that he is fighting for us all the way to the convention floor!
Baobab
(4,667 posts)rule the party.
Ino
(3,366 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Ino
(3,366 posts)So that's why Hillary is money-grubbing from young people now... promising them "advisor" status in exchange for $10K
[URL=http://www.sherv.net/][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
George II
(67,782 posts)....at his rallies?
Lucky Ducky
(13 posts)Or is this another flip flop?
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)She lost the youth vote clear back in 2008, but is now trying to buy it!!
moriah
(8,311 posts)... be promising to give them money for joining, instead of accepting their money if they choose to give to her?
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They give her something and, what do you know, things fall off the truck for them.
Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #12)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)fight on until the last primary because I KNEW she would work her heart out for Obama and help to unify the party. For that reason I've refused to say Sanders should drop out, and I still won't. However, I no longer have any expectation that Sanders will behave as classy as Hillary did after the last primary and help to unify both sides.
George II
(67,782 posts).....that he was being thrashed, I doubt he'll even be in the Convention Hall when the final delegate count is tallied.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)NY primary, btw, too bad you missed it. You wouldn't have made yourself look silly had you known that.
But Hillary eg, did not concede the string of ten defeats she has suffered, most of them by double digit numbers, with no election fraud.
Even Tweetie remarked that on the night of Bernie's Wisconsin win, Hillary 'disappeared' 'is this a new thing' asked Mathews, 'not cool'. She was busy tweeting about Bernie that night which is now coming back to haunt her.
Pay attention to what is going on. Bernie, left Wisconsin for Wyoming, you know, it's normal for a candidate to do that during a campaign, and received the news of his big win in Wisconsin right before his Wyoming rally.
That is how it's done. Bad attempt to try to make something out of standard procedure, which your own candidate does also, since it IS standard procedure.
George II
(67,782 posts)http://www.ibtimes.com/new-york-primary-night-speeches-watch-live-stream-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-hillary-2356309
Just as I said!
As for the other stuff you said,
- Neither Arizona nor New York will be redoing their primaries.
- Clinton didn't have a string of ten defeats, although Sanders hasn't won a primary since early March.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Noway that is going to happen.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)They lied about his civil rights activism, his health care plan, his gun votes, EVERYTHING. Any and every way they could twist his record, they have done. Wrapping themselves in Sandyhook victims and others. Even when people called them out on their lies, they continued to lie.
You have a much different definition of "classy" than I do.
Buh bye
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)And Bernie will be the nominee.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... but I can't criticize if he doesn't officially concede until after all people voting is over and he's still behind in pledged delegates.
But that's NOT the same as trying to overturn the vote at the Convention. The people who suggested Hillary should have done that were rightly criticized in 2008.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)eliminated her. That will certainly happen this time in Hillary's favor once we get to CA.
Why take it to the convention?
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Zynx
(21,328 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)a campaign at this point for the delegates, too. Since they are the actual only ones whose vote even counts in this whole matter (massive irregularities notwithstanding)
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)It has been posted repeatedly. The Supers would not only be foolish, but would be guilty of political malpractice to ignore it.
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)Winners and losers. Smart people don't riot when their prefered candidate loses. That would be insane.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)If he does manage to pull ahead, he has an excellent case to make that the supers should respect that.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... except during a three-way race where neither gets a majority of the pledged delegates.
And that's pretty rare for us, fortunately.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Their existence and their weighing in for HRC allowed the media to crown HRC for all intents and purposes very, very early this primary. You better believe that has heavily impacted how this primary race has played out.
No doubt some Bernie supporters were discouraged and didn't vote. No doubt HRC got some votes due to the bandwagon effect and people wanting to vote for the winner of not wanting to "waste their vote" by voting for the loser.
Super delegates must go. They must. We can develop other procedures to handle our nominating process, but these super delegates are not democratic and many of them are freaking corporate lobbyists and officers. No. Hell no.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Actually, Obama himself is the only one that got anything close to a "coronation"....
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/that-time-obama-wore-a-tiara-113810
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)In an unprecedented way to continually claim that Sanders has had a very long shot to NO shot at beating HRC from the very beginning then I'll just say you are being disingenuous.
This should never happen again.
moriah
(8,311 posts)But if SDs can't say their own opinions, I think you'll find that remarkably anti-democratic, too.
(And no laugh at Obama in a tiara for the GSA? Geez, no sense of humor this Sunday, seriously....)
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Super delegates have within the Dem Party, and the ultimate impact of the narrative they allowed the media to spin throughout this primary. I believe my opinion is a bit closer to the real effect these supers have had this primary.
Bottom line: they are not democratic and many of them are corporate lobbyists and corporate officers. This makes the Republican primary MORE democratic than the Democratic one. They gotta go. I have a feeling you like them though. Just a hunch.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Which is the only time they should have more power than their right of free speech to endorse whatever candidate they want to. Many endorsed Bernie.
But please be careful that in your passion you don't cross the line from fiercely advocating your position to attack me (whether it's to say I like Republicans, as your passion could have been misinterpreted, or that I do not believe in democracy). I don't appreciate it, and while I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, continued slaps out at me just because thus time my candidate seems to be winning will end up being alerted on.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)I have never had a post hidden here in all my time here.
But, if you disagree by all means alert.
I don't see why we need supers in 3 way races. At the convention we could have other mechanisms in place to crown our nominee. In my opinion, arguing for supers is an attack on a fair democracy. We can have multiple rounds of voting at the convention without having to resort to super delegates. So many of them have demonstrated a horribly superior and entitled point of view this primary season. Their vote should not equal more than 10000 votes from average Democratic voters. That screams corruption to me. I am sorry if that offends you. That opinion is not a direct attack on you.
moriah
(8,311 posts).... the way that you went from attacking the issue to saying you had a "hunch" I liked either Republicans or a non-Democratic process. That's how debates turn uncivil.
Just as I pointed out that jumping from taking one person's discussion about a few unethical Bernie supporters, being still so invested in self-identification as a Bernie supporter to be unable to admit that yes, some of every candidate's supporters have behaved badly, and responded by attwcking that user (not that user's candidate's supporters). No alert, just a plea for civility.
I alert when it's egregious or a troll.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)My hunch that you liked super delegates stemmed entirely from our convo here in this thread. That's it.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Usually, there's some misunderstanding over text, which does suck for tone. Or there's an understandable reason that user was being more sensitive than usual and lashing out.
I prefer Supers to the Republican process in three-way elections because of the fact we could end up with Jeb as the Republican nominee if thry go through enough ballots, when the Republican voters clearly said at the polls three from the same family is too much in line with monarchy.
At least with our process, the nominee even in a three-way contested race with no clear winner of pledged delegates is still going to likely be one of the three the voters preferred.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)For me.
And, the Republican Establishment would have hell to pay (and rightfully so) if they try and install someone that lost early or didn't run at all in the primary. We could have rules that prevent that from happening in the Dem party. Perhaps some form of instant runoff voting would make the chances that someone with such little support could ever get the nomination. And that would be much more democratic and worthy of the Democratic Party.
Our party chair has already been kind enough to inform us of the real purpose of super delegates: to allow the Establishment to block grassroots activists from having any true power. That answer is clearly true, and it is a disgrace and ultimately unacceptable.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I think it's the true "revolution" that will lead to massive changes in both major parties -- yes, the first few ekections we'd probably still end up with a Dem or a Repuke, because it will take some time for the third parties that are so marginalized now without IRV to gain enough momentum.
But when the party leadership sees on both sides how many people put Green or Libertarian as their first choice and only put Dems or Pukes as their second choices, they'll realize they are going to have to change in an environment where the General Election is one where smart people can vote their conscience instead of just their fears.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)It's that I do think, overall, it will counteract the right shift in politics.
I talk to Conservatives frequently, partly because I am a minority as a liberal in my own state, partly because there are some who aren't truly insane (rare, but I manage to find a few), and mostly because I prefer to debate policy positions with people who disagree or I can't really constructively analyze my own viewpoint well enough to argue why I disagree unless I listen to what they're saying.
And most of those I do speak to don't support the culture wars that the current GOP fights. They are fiscal conservatives, not social ones. I truly think the GOP would be the first to fracture, becoming the party of social conservatives only
I think the Democrats, on the other hand, would move more to the left to embrace Greens and the more left-leaning Democrats. We have a far stronger reputation of trying to enlarge our tent, not fracture.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)gets to have a say. 'Wrapping it up' means depriving voters of the right to THEIR say in a campaign which to me is an awful way to run a democracy
I love the way this campaign is going, it is truly democracy in action. No state will be denied its right to vote in this Primary. Why on earth would anyone not want that?
Most exciting campaign I remember in my lifetime, with so many important issues finally getting attention. It isn't about YOU, or ME or how WE feel. It's about this country. I just love the democratic process in action.
moriah
(8,311 posts)... it's because I want to start working for the General and not dealing with the primary infighting.
But what isn't Democracy is what Weaver stupidly suggested was the plan -- to, after months of saying the Supers shouldn't have influence in this kind of two-way race but should follow the candidate with the most pledged delegates, try to overturn the pledged delegates at the Convention.
When no one has won a majority of pledged delegates (three-way races for the majority of the primary in most cases) that's when the Supers should have influence. But when one or the other will have a majority of pledged delegates, the Superdelegates should do as they did in 2008 and follow the will of the people.
Not doing so would be very sad indeed, and totally unDemocratic.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)The pathetic (and, frankly, frantic) efforts to demoralize people who support Sanders and thereby undercut that support only serve as evidence at how disturbing it is to the Clinton camp that an un-bought politician finally made it on to the national stage in such a big way. That was never supposed to happen!
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)ridgenvalley
(58 posts)I knew you'd keep your promise!!
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Hillary will have her revenge.
Bernies not naive, he knows the Clintons will work actively to destroy him.
He has nothing to lose and everything to gain by igniting more and more people with his message.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)And he will go all the way back to Vermont.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Its important to keep his political platform going. I think a lot of people don't hear his platform until he campaigns in their state.
I will continue my full support through the convention and beyond!
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You know who else is going to the convention? Hillary Clinton. She happens to be going with the most delegates, though.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Enjoy Tuesday.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)So delusional. It's fun watching you guys lose and go all crybaby.
Stay in, please, Bernie!
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)out this campaign are EPIC and noted. I can't vote for a candidate under investigation. Enjoy destroying the party.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You're losing and its fucking delicious.
"Election irregularities! Wah wah wah!"
Nobody will remember this nonsense in three months. But it's certainly hilarious to watch the delusional ranting while it's going on.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Let the chips fall where they will. No one is standing in the way of audits or investigations.
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puffy socks
(1,473 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)I wonder if Tad Devine will try to flip him?
brooklynite
(94,745 posts)I confirmed I'll be at the Convention as well.
Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #44)
Name removed Message auto-removed
noretreatnosurrender
(1,890 posts)to make another donation! Go Bernie!
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I can't really watch it like that.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)A week is a long time in politics.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)to secure the nomination before the convention. She would need to get 68% of the remaining delegates.
And the super delegates don't really vote until the convention.
dchill
(38,546 posts)He said so.
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)and every state election board needs to be scrutinized. Beyond that, tapping out too soon will make it too easy for Hillary to begin tacking back to the center-right, where she's more comfortable.