How about using your cell phone to make a snap shot

[BlueCaliDem]

of your ballot before handing it over to the paperless machines as proof how you voted? Everyone has a cell phone with picture-taking capabilities. Why not use our technology against theirs (easy-tamper paperless voting machines)?

Snap-shots can then be e-mailed to the White House's site with name and address and who you voted for. This way, if the machines flip your vote and the totals after the tally doesn't coincide with what the White House has collected, there'd be grounds for the president to challenge the tallies.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Republicans will try to steal this election. Knowing this, it would behoove us to ensure our vote is counted via the snap-shots of our marked ballot.

Is that an idea worth looking into as the Democratic Underground?

[LisaL]

1. Is that even legal?

[Si MC]

28. Why not? Why worry?

in 2004, none of us had cell phones with cams... how that could have effected OH, we will never know.

There's no law against you taking pictures of your ballot choices in the voting booths anywhere in the USA.

Be surprised if Republicans don't try to make a law against it in some states before 2016.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

32. In Texas it is illegal to have a cell phone or camera within 100 feet of a polling place.

Check your local laws.

[mary195149]

2. I was planning on doing the same thing,

but also wonder if it is legal. They wouldn't know if I was taking a pic anyways behind the partition and I am in CA so I don't know how much it matters, but I think just because these machines don't give a summary of who you actually voted for and the machines have been known to fail many times, it would be good to snap a pic for your own piece of mind.

[LisaL]

3. In a lot of polling places they can see what a voter is doing.

The only way it could possibly make sense if everybody took a photo, and obviously not everybody is going to. So it would be useless even if it were legal (which it might not be?).

[Si MC]

29. IT's NOT illegal anywhere.. stop worrying!

you can actually do whatever you want when you vote, make a phone call, take a few pictures.

Show me a law against it! Take a picture, record your vote, then take a picture of yourself turning in your ballot.

[BlueCaliDem]

15. I'm in CA, too

and I am a permanent absentee voter. However, I do have the choice to either mail it in or go to a polling place with filled-out ballot in hand and slip it into the ballot box. I could have easily filled out my ballot (this time, TWO sheets on both sides worth!), take a snapshot in the privacy of my home, and then go to the polling place to turn it in. I could then e-mail a copy of the image of my ballot to some central at the WH. I don't know how that would work in other states, but it's possible in CA.

[CreekDog]

39. that's what I did

voted from home, snapped some photos, mailed it in, confirmed that it was received by the county (in California).

[graham4anything]

4. paper trails don't work because votes are private

I personally would love if there were separate ballots for President and you deposit them in a locked box
and there was a camera on the box at all times(perhaps lower than a persons face.)

dem
repub
and any other party
and maybe a person can do so in a sound proof room and say which party into a mike

I would think photos would nto be allowed in places that try to stop people from voting

[Grown2Hate]

6. A paper trail works for audit/recount purposes. If the machine gives you a paper printout with

the names of the people for which you voted (without having YOUR name on it), and it goes in a separate box, the total in that box can be checked against the total that the machines calculate.

If there is a MAJOR difference (or even a relatively minor one) during an audit or a recount, it would be proof of tampering.

[graham4anything]

7. but it couldn't, wouldn't change the outcome of that election.That is the flaw

[BlueCaliDem]

12. The election can then be challenged, no? eom

[graham4anything]

25. name a presidential that ever was after it was called. 2000 proved time ran out.

nothing would come of it.

luckily Obama don't need help to get to 270

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Maybe Bush ran the clock out in 2000

but it did bring it to light and he was never seen as the legitimate president. That said, if they try and steal the election again this time and (god forbid!) Romney is crowned the winner, they still have MONTHS to fight this out avoiding the mistakes made in the Florida Recount and before the results are "certified".

But you're correct . . . President Obama won't most likely need help to get to 270. Although many commerical pollsters claim it's neck and neck, other, more in-depth polls show President Obama ahead.

[susanr516]

5. Check your state laws

Cameras, cell phones, and audio/video recording devices are not allowed within 100 ft. of the polling place in TX. (TX Election Code, Sec. 61.014.) The only exception is for the election judges and clerks working at the polling location.

[Si MC]

31. Texas is not yet officially a state of the USA

Check that out, do some history. The dear folks in Texas wanted options the USA wasn't willing to agree to.

Hint: there were no TELEPHONES then.

[dsc]

8. In NC cell phones are illegal

so check state laws.

[BlueCaliDem]

11. In states like NC, people should then request an absentee ballot

fill it out at home, make the snap-shot, and then go to the polls to slip them in the ballot boxes. Is that allowed in NC?

[LisaL]

14. Why in the world would you slip an absente ballot into a ballot box?

Absentee ballots have different rules than regular, in person ballots. Why don't you find out what the rules are before making these types of suggestions?

[BlueCaliDem]

16. Not here in CA.

I was given the option to either mail it in or to go to a polling place to put it in the ballot box. Is this uncommon?

[LisaL]

17. In OH, the ballot arrives at a certain address,

and they check a signature on the identification envelop before it's even accepted. There are no signatures on regular ballots. Sticking an absentee ballot into a ballot box for in-person voting is not going to do any good.

[BlueCaliDem]

19. Yes, here as well.

And I have filled out my ballot, slipped it into the envelope, signed and dated it, and delivered it to my polling place because I just wanted to see how busy it was there. I had no problem.

[LisaL]

21. Not everybody lives in CA.

In OH, the absentee ballot goes to your county's board of elections. Not to your regular polling place.

[BlueCaliDem]

22. Oh, okay.

I get it.

So, why don't Ohioans vote absentee? That would circumvent having to use touchscreens and it will go directly to the county board of elections, no? But in the meantime, you *can* make a snapshot of your ballot before you mail it in, and send an e-mail with the image to the WH, and they can still keep track of the numbers.

[LisaL]

24. Some vote absentee. Most don't.

For absentee ballot, my concern would be that if you make a mistake, it would not be counted.
And it's easier to make a mistake on an absentee ballot.

[CreekDog]

40. Because for California the absentee ballot is the same --and we can insert it into the ballot box

if by chance, we drop it off at the polls on election day rather than mail it in.

it's interesting because in recent elections (I'm a permanent mail in voter), my polling place has me put my ballot in a locked ballot box, just as the poster you are talking to is saying.

obviously each state is different, but don't be surprised that it works that way in California.

[tinrobot]

9. How could you match the photo up to the vote?

If they trim votes off of the total, for example, how do you know it was your vote that was stolen?

Secret ballots don't have your name/address on them, so it would be impossible.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. What I tried to say was,

should we send copies of our ballots to the White House e-mail center, and the totals of those ballots received don't match up with the county's totals, there has to be reason to challenge the count.

[LisaL]

13. You were already informed that in some states it's not legal to bring cell phones into a voting

place.
I have no idea what else can be added to that: what you are suggesting is not legal, at least in some states.

[BlueCaliDem]

18. Yes I know.

Why are you so vigilant against the idea?

If you can't take your cell phone into the voting booth, then vote absentee. You get the ballot mailed home and, in CA, I get the option to either mail my ballot back or take it to my polling place. Why does this idea make you bristle?

[LisaL]

20. Because you are making these suggestion not knowing what the rules are.

In some states, you can't vote absentee unless you have a reason.
In other states, you can not take an absentee ballot back to your regular polling place.

[tinrobot]

27. That only works if every single person in the county does it...

...including Republicans and independents.

Not feasible.

[onenote]

42. if every DUer sent their ballots in, what difference would it make?

Do you think that every voter is a DUer? I'm still not following how a collection of photos of ballots from DUers could or would prove anything about any local or national vote results.

[Blue Idaho]

23. Depends on where you live...

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/documenting-your-vote#StateResources

Some very good information here but check for more current info locally.

[Mr.Bill]

26. My California abentee ballot does not have my name on the ballot itself.

It is also filled out in #2 pencil, so it could be altered after the photo was taken. Also many people could photograph the same ballot. The photo would be meaningless in a court of law. Good thought on the OP's part, though.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. But it does have a number before they ask you to tear if off

and send it in, and what you must keep. If you make a snap-shot of it and send it to your e-mail, it will have a time/date stamp which you can forward as proof that it's your vote.

[Mr.Bill]

36. I could still alter it after the picture, because it's in pencil.

Last edited Sun Oct 28, 2012, 12:18 AM - Edit history (2)

And that number is not assigned to the voter. It is only a way to account to all marked/spoiled/unused ballots. I know this because I am a poll worker.

[BlueCaliDem]

37. Then perhaps we need to use pen, just like where I am in CA.

I have to use either black or blue ink.

But, yes, if you use pencil that defeats my idea. Still, using pencil also risks having your vote changed after you've filled it out and handed it over to an unscrupulous poll worker, right? Why would they allow people to use pencil? Here in SoCal, we changed to ink and are given a booklet wherein we can mark our choices first before marking our ballots.

Anyway, when I wrote my post, I was assuming all ballots had to be marked in pen ink, just as I've been doing since 2004.

[Mr.Bill]

38. On election day at the polls you are given a fine point felt tip pen to use.

Absentee ballots are filled in by #2 pencil and sealed by the voter in a privacy envelope with your signature. It is then sealed in a mailing envelope and either mailed in or hand delivered in person by the voter at a polling place on election day or at the registrar of voters office before election day. A poll worker would have to break the seal on the privacy envolope and the outer mailing envelope to alter the ballot. Also, if you deliver your absentee ballot to a polling place on election day, you place it in a sealed ballot box yourself. The poll worker never touches your ballot.

[BlueCaliDem]

44. In what state?

My absentee ballot must be filled in with ink, not pencil.

[CreekDog]

41. My California absentee ballot says to fill it out with INK, not PENCIL

[Mr.Bill]

43. It depends on what kind of counting equipment you have in your county.

I live in a small underpopulated county in the northern part of the stste, and our equipment is probably different than some of the larger counties.

[BlueCaliDem]

45. Perhaps being in an underpopulated district

there's almost zero chance of election fraud.

In more populace counties like Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties, we're required to use ink.

Maybe that's the difference?

[Mr.Bill]

46. At some point, it comes down to the integrity of human beings.

They can make it difficult, but not absolutely impossible for fraud to happen. Our officials in my county are good people and I trust them. My overview of the system as far as I can see, is that fraud would at least require a conspiracy by a number of people. It would be difficult for a lone poll worker to alter anything without leaving a paper trail. Like everything involving people, though, the system will never be perfect.

[CreekDog]

47. Yeah, Contra Costa used pencil

But in San Mateo it's been ink even through different systems.

[LP2K12]

30. Yes, depends on where you live...

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/illegal-to-post-pictures-of-ballot

Illegal to post pictures of ballot

State law prohibits voters from showing their completed ballot to anyone. Officials from both the state Republican and Democratic parties posted pictures of ballots online last week.

"People take pictures and post about everything and we just wanted to let people know that it is a felony to do so. The law was designed to keep people from being bribed for their votes," said Government Accountability Board Public information officer Reid Magney.

So far, there have been no reports of anyone being prosecuted for posting pictures of their completed absentee ballots. But it is a felony, which could lead to a year and a half in prison and a $10,000 fine.

Edit: I posted a picture of my ballot to facebook & twitter this morning and tagged the official Obama account and OFA-FL. Oops.

[BlueCaliDem]

34. True, but we can tweak the rules for each state . . .

and I just have to say . . you are naughty for not listening to Fox News!

[graywarrior]

48. I did that last election in NH!