2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAnalysis: Fiscal cliff could hit economy harder than many expect
The United States runs the risk of a recession far deeper than many investors and policymakers may think if lawmakers fail to avert looming tax hikes and cuts to public spending.
Absent action by Congress, the country will face the so-called fiscal cliff at the start of next year, a combination of lower spending and higher taxes that is expected to extract about $600 billion from the economy.
Many economists think every dollar of deficit reduction will subtract nearly the same amount from economic growth.
By that measure, the current course could cause the economy to contract by 0.5 percent in 2013, according to estimates by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that have been largely embraced by Wall Street and the U.S. Federal Reserve.
More at: http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-fiscal-cliff-could-hit-174247545.html
ffr
(22,671 posts)If we fill congress with Democrats the fiscal cliff will resolve itself. Simple as that.
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,422 posts)Defense spending and some discretionary spending will be going down, the Bush tax cuts will disappear- this will cause an economic calamity in this country? Is it the fact that it's happening all at once? Isn't this what the teabaggers wanted- cut spending, reduce the deficit? Are there any good reads (not published by Yahoo) about this? I don't understand it.
hanzi88
(35 posts)The Bush cuts will expire which plus spending cuts which will instantly reduce both the deficit & the debt. That's what the fiscal hawks want anyway. But it won't happen. If there's no agreement to avoid the cliff, Obama & the Dems will push for a new bill to maintain the Bush tax cuts for the middle class & dare the Repubs to veto that. Tax cuts will still expire for the rich & Obama will get what he wants.
Igel
(35,323 posts)In early January 2013, a lot of tax cuts expire.
The Bush tax cuts, extended a couple of years ago, end. That will raise taxes on the wealthy and the middle class.
Other tax rebates and the child care tax credit expire. This will raise taxes on percentiles 20 to about 45.
This will suck money out of the economy, true, but even worse will put tax planning in the toilet. The result is a giant case of uncertainty. If you don't know what your net income is going to be next month, that affects your spending. 200 million Americans, many business owners and managers, are just like you. That means fewer new hires, and it means less investment in business. That means more people getting government assistance and fewer paying taxes.
Government spending will be cut, but not on a case-by-case basis. Well, maybe. Nobody knows. The cuts don't have to be across the board on every program, just down to a certain level of budget "granularity." Obama could spare some programs and make deeper cuts to others. Nobody knows what he'll do because when asked he didn't answer. Answering would have made the game of chicken both sides are playing less high-stakes and worrying. He still hasn't, as far as I know. That means a lot of government workers don't know if they'll be laid off. A lot of people receiving money don't know if they'll get money. And since a lot of those "people" are contractors with employees, none of those employees know what's up.
But you also have to look at investors. They're affected a dozen ways by this, and one way is by the availability of a lot of government debt. If the budget deficit is suddenly reduced there may not be enough debt to soak up all the investor money. They won't put it into their businesses because of all the uncertainty. It'll just sit there as a consequence, unlent and unused. Since one reason the dollar's as strong as it is, we may see the dollar weaken even as there's more fiscal integrity; at the same time, the fiscal integrity is due to weakness and ill-will, hardly a harbinger of a time of prosperity and good feelings.
Now, one thing important in the economy is the "velocity of money," how fast a dollar changes hands. It's ultimately responsible for the Keynesian multiplier. If all that money is just sitting there, then the velocity of money will decrease--which is equivalent to shrinking the money supply. But lending money is also a way of increasing the money supply, and with less debt being issued we'd probably need the Fed to step in with a new bout of "quantitative easing," but easing that nobody would take advantage of.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)As you said, win the Bush tax cuts expire and the end of the year, their gone, kaput. Dems don't have to reinstate them and the bulk of the tax cuts go to those at the higher end. No that those towards the bottom won't miss them, but there is not the same sense of urgency. Alst the Defense cuts go into affect automatically, and the Defense contractor's and Wall St have signalled to their lawmakers that they want an end to this uncertainty. Dems can wait out a good deal. It should come quickly.
tama
(9,137 posts)is how long can US keep on exporting purely symbolic value (dollars) to import real things. In other words US trade deficit. When Iceland jumped of the "fiscal cliff", the currency lost international purchasing power.
Turbineguy
(37,359 posts)the repub congress will do nothing to stop the fiscal cliff to take revenge on America.
Blue Idaho
(5,051 posts)It's the only way the republican controlled house will ever let go of the tax cuts for the wealthy.
The key phrase in your post is "Absent any action by Congress..." If congress refuses to act they will all be run out of town on a rail. We will go over the cliff and then shortly after the beginning of the new year - a compromise will be struck just before the economy is seriously effected.
I hope they drive a stake in Grover Norquist's heart.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)There's already a secret deal. How do I know this? For one thing the memo to the defense contractors that they did not need to worry about sending layoff notices to employees.
smorkingapple
(827 posts)but we can't have an intelligent conversation on this topic because it's just too dense for 98% of America. They just don't get that government debt does NOT = household debt and you can't analyze it the same way.
tama
(9,137 posts)are you willing to admit that the "aggregate demand" of Keynesian economics does not create endless supply on this finite planet?
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)if they just stick together including President Obama. First, the Bush tax cuts expire at the endo of the year so Dems don't have to do nothing just let them expire. Secondly, the Defense cuts automatically take affect if there is not resolution. The Defense contractors will put pressure on lawmakers because they need to know what programs could be cut and they will need to know with some certainty right away. Also, Wall St. is putting out the word to lawmakers that they are willing to accept new tax increases as part of a deficit reduction package but they want some resolution. So the pressure will be on the Repugnants to come to the table with an acceptable deal. The Dems can hold out for a while and let expiring legislation take its course.