Bill Press and Bob Bennett on CNN tonight: Bernie will have enormous power at convention.

[grasswire]

They predict a huge floor fight over the platform if Bernie is not nominated.

They say that with the probable 1500 delegates Bernie will have, he will "OWN" the platform. They say that number is unprecedented.

One big potential fight is over trade policy. That's one plank that HRC cannot afford to let Bernie have his way, considering that people own her over TPP. HOWEVER, it will be very difficult for her to prevail.

They talked about Bernie not just wanting to energize the Democratic Party, but to revolutionize the whole democratic process, from automatic voter registration on.

We have waited an awfully long time for this man to set things right.

[KittyWampus]

1. #1. Bill Press is an idiot. #2.Sanders will have no power at the Convention. He is not needed.

And Sanders couldn't revolutionize squat if he can't even organize his own supporters.

[Logical]

3. Lol, want to bet?nt

[bkkyosemite]

5. His supporters have minds of their own

[grasswire]

8. How many best selling books on politics do YOU have in print?

How many years were you anchor of a political TV show?

How many years have you had a political radio program?

Honestly, you have NO CLUE.

[jillan]

15. Don't you know that anyone that supports Bernie is an idiot?

[grasswire]

17. LOL yes

Even the highly educated and gloriously accomplished among us.

[jillan]

20. Yep, and little old ladies like myself are just Bernie Bros that will burn in hell.

It really is unbelievable funny.

[grasswire]

24. where ARE those Bernie Bros, anyway?

Some of the ladies are looking for them.

As whatshername said..."Where the bros are..."

[Kittycat]

38. I love how their abuse only unites us even more

To fight for the platforms we believe in.

[Corporate666]

61. Since you believe authority is derived from success...

You must agree that there are few, if any, economists more respected and with comparable credentials to Paul Krugman.


The same Paul Krugman who belives Bernie's plans are unworkable, idiotic and will lead to financial ruin for the country.

...since you believe subject matter authority is derived from success in publishing and being successful in media.

[yellowcanine]

78. Excellent example of "Argument from Authority."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Does having a best selling book on politics, etc mean one is an expert on political conventions?
Inquiring minds want to know.

[artislife]

11. I have a little file of vile comments by h supporters

that I will read before I fill out my mail in ballot in November.



Just in case I feel a little unity coming on.

[Kittycat]

39. Their posts remind me of my

Abusive ex. Know the signs. Happy everyday to be in a marriage that is the complete opposite. Know the signs, and don't look back.

[KPN]

40. Ooohh! Please post it here as well!

[artislife]

63. Just start reading any thread and open One note

and you will be able to start your own with a little copy and paste action.

There are hundreds.

You will have a full file in a day or two.

[snot]

50. heh heh +1

[highprincipleswork]

59. It probably feels bad to sell your soul.

[Segami]

12. Coming through.....

[grasswire]

19. what the heck is that??? LOL nt

[Segami]

23. A Wampus reply express....

[grasswire]

26. oh.....they are chasing a KITTY nt

[Peregrine Took]

16. Hahaha...Bill Press could buy and sell you. N/t

[Corporate666]

62. Hahaha... Hillary could buy and sell Bernie!....

..therefore her believes and platform is correct, and Bernie's is wrong.


...using your reasoning.

[libdem4life]

89. Yes, well you see, that is the crux of the problem. Amazing insight.

The Title, that is.

[840high]

22. Ha-ha - keep thinking that.

[Samantha]

30. Wrong, wrong and wrong

Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 02:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Bill Press is an extremely smart, intelligent person respected by many people. He has been in politics for a very long time, and knows the score. And Bill is right about the power Sanders will have at the convention. Maybe you do not need him, but millions will welcome him there.

Sam

[silvershadow]

48. How presumptive of us. Speaking of which, since when does a candidate who enters the

race 6 months earlier than any previous cycle immediately become the "presumptive nominee"? I remember when that was the immediate media meme. Here we are a year later, and she still hasn't closed the deal. Maybe there is a reason for that.

[TM99]

51. Oh, you are so in for a rude

damned awakening.

You better hope it is at the convention as they predict and not when she loses in a landslide to Trump.

[JDPriestly]

58. Just wait! And remember 1968.

I'm sure Hillary does.

[rhett o rick]

88. I am glad you got the first response slot. Gold Star for sure, and it gives us a peek

at the delusion out there. Your side seems oblivious to what's happening in this country. Millions have come out against the culture of corruption that some want to hold onto so dearly. The Sanders campaign did an amazing job of organization and in a short time brought together millions to support a challenge to the candidate that many think of as "the chosen one".

The money raised by the Sanders campaign came from the working class and middle class while Clinton has tea with the billionaires.

Stadiums were filled by Sanders supporters while Clinton's people have to escort BLM representatives out of her close gathering of 12 to 25 people.

This is a movement to throw out the Big Money like the Koch Bros that your side embraces. Hang on while you can.

But a word, "The oligarchy doesn't love you."

[uponit7771]

90. +1

[msanthrope]

2. Oh thank Jeebus....you can pretty much bet that means Bernie has no leverage at all. nt

[bkkyosemite]

7. I saw a crow today in a tree.

[ljm2002]

4. But wait...

...we've been assured by some of our Resident Experts right here on this forum that not only is Bernie a loser, but he will be in no position to make any demands at all! We've been assured that "that's how it works" and anyone who thinks otherwise probably believes in unicorns too.

So Bill Press and Bob Bennett must be just a couple of neophyte BernieBros who've never been around the block, politically speaking, ... right? Because all of the Serious People know better than what they're spouting here.

-- just in case.

[grasswire]

10. pajama keyboard warriors think they are pretty hot stuff.

It's the same everywhere. Post a little, think you're a genius.

[JimDandy]

6. The issues are WHY we are Sanders supporters.

We need every last delegate we can get to influence the platform.

More phonebanking coming up!

Go Bernie!

[jillan]

18. Yes! Bernie supporters are about issues and democratic principles.

Something that others cannot seem to understand.

[2banon]

34. And in California WE THE PEOPLE ELECT DELEGATES and that's happening Sunday

May 1st at 2:00 pm in case anyone living in California isn't aware, haven't heard anything mentioned on the local news...

This is happening in every congressional district in the state, and Hillary and Bernie supporters will be meeting in very SEPARATE locations in each district.

People will show up and vote for their Delegate to represent their district at the Convention in July.

I fucking can't wait to get on with this part.

Plus, canvassing phone banking etc.

[KPN]

41. Exactly!!!

Go Bernie.

Actually, I like: Bernie or Bust ... and bust if we must ... better.

[BernieforPres2016]

81. Issues matter, but any politician can make a good speech on the issues

Bernie's movement has been so strong not just because of his position on the issues, but because you could look back through his career in politics and see that they are the same issues that he's continually championed and fought for.

We know what a shape shifter Hillary Clinton is. Does anybody really believe a Democratic Party platform will cause her to push positions she has clearly been opposed to, even if they somehow make it into the platform? As she said on Tuesday night, she's WINNING, why would she agree to change her position on any of Bernie's issues?

[Scuba]

87. ^^ This ^^

[BootinUp]

9. sounds like media hype to me

I am not familiar with how the process works, but I assume calmer heads will prevail.

[grasswire]

13. why would calmer heads "prevail"?

This is what convention rules are made for. Floor fights. This is what democracy looks like.

The way YOU apparently espouse is what totalitarian societies look like.

[BootinUp]

14. Calmer heads in my view would be those

that can accept the primary results.

[grasswire]

21. and that's democracy?

Sounds like the way things work in China, to me.

[BootinUp]

27. Why stop at China, what about the 3rd Reich? lol.

[grasswire]

29. you said it, pal

Just like the third reich. No fighting allowed at the convention!!!! Must be in LOCKSTEP!!!

[KPN]

42. Oh, so the 40-45% or so who voted for Bernie don't have a voice?

Do you hear yourself?

[BootinUp]

45. The party should support the nominee, that is not to say

that I am against the normal process for arriving at a party platform.

[KPN]

46. So what was your point about those who lost the primary accepting the results?

[BootinUp]

47. That any "fight" over the platform should be tempered

with the goal of not damaging the chances to win a national election.

[bjo59]

52. Exactly right.

[840high]

25. I'm old enough to

remember some great fights at conventions.

[grasswire]

28. I remember how conventions were on the radio and went late into the night..

..I think. Maybe I saw that on TV.

[840high]

33. Yes. I would listen

to my radio - way past my bedtime. It was exciting.

[winter is coming]

37. They might actually show some of the conventions, this time around. n/t

[Demsrule86]

66. Do you long for the good old days?

The days when the people were shut out of the process and the bosses picked the candidate? I don't.

[bjo59]

53. Me too.

[frylock]

31. Bernie is like Obi fucking Wan Kenobi.

Striking him down will only make him stronger.

[grasswire]

32. THAT is the truth

and I think he knows it now.

He has the power to transform the democratic process.

[KPN]

43. Bernie's really like Ghandi in a way.

I know I'll get hammered for saying that, but ... he really is in many respects.

[VOX]

69. Guess this is that hammer.

Maybe more like a sponge rubber mallet.

Peace.

[uponit7771]

91. More Podium Bird fantasy no? tia

[frylock]

92. Please, seek help.

[dreamnightwind]

35. Great, it's something. I don't know how much it ultimately matters

How much does the platform influence anything that follows? Won't Hillary (assuming she wins the nomination, still fighting against that but it looks likely) just do what she wants regardless of what's in the platform?

One way it matters to me is it would be a way for the party to legitimize itself to the many Bernie supporters who are looking very hard at the party to see if it can be a vehicle for the changes we need or if it will remain an obstacle to them.

One thing I would need to see from the party is the elimination of superdelegates. The people should decide who wins the nomination, not the party elites. If they won't do that, they should change the party name to something other than Democratic, and IMO there should be an exodus from the party to some more democratic institution, there's nothing democratic about superdelegates.

How about the Democratic Party disallows their candidates to use SuperPAC's? That would mean something to me, I think it would make a difference. Candidates and elected representatives need to be listening to the interests of the electorate, not the large donors.

I would like to get them on record to support hand-counted paper ballots with a full audit trail including video surveillance of every step.

But whatever specific issues are on there, like fracking, trade, climate change, single payer health, I guess it's good to get the party on record with a good platform, but I don't see what makes that anything more than empty platitudes meant to mislead the electorate into thinking the party is something it is not.

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. Who gets to decide how we vote in the Primaries? If we wanted to change to ranked voting, eg,

would it be done through the platform or some other process?

[dreamnightwind]

71. Oh, that's an excellent question

I did a little Googling, found nothing definitive but it looks to me like each state's Democratic Party decides things like this. I don't know how they decide (vote amongst themselves, party chair decision, committee), would like to know.

Ranked, or other forms of instant run-off (I like the ranked form) elections would be a great reform to push for, thanks for bringing it up.

It might be more effective at the general election level than the primaries (would legitimize third-party candidates to some degree, people wouldn't have to worry as much about wasting their votes and enabling the opposite of what they support, plus everyone can vote in the general election, many primaries are closed to party members). I'm no expert on the matter and haven't thought it all the way through, perhaps you have.

[nolawarlock]

36. I'm perfectly fine if most of Bernie's platform gets planks a the convention.

I'd rather have most of his platform than him as the nominee.

[KPN]

44. Yeah, Hillary will ignore it anyway, right?

[bjo59]

54. That's an interesting statement.

[nolawarlock]

56. It isn't to me.

It fits perfectly into how I think about things.

But I get what you're saying.

I agree with a lot of what both candidates say. I think Hillary's ability to compromise and deal across the aisle will likely be better. I think Bernie's a bit too absolutist and, as a business owner, that terrifies me because, while I agree with his stance on corporations, I think he's so obsessed with that one issue, that small business owners would be burned in the sacrificial pits if it meant squeezing a few bucks out of those big corporations. If I thought Hillary was going to try to do away with gay marriage, I wouldn't vote for her, but I frankly think she was pandering about marriage all those years the same way as Obama was until Biden stuck his foot in Obama's mouth. Does that make them both dishonest? On the surface, sure. But I think some dishonesty and a lot of compromise is necessary in politics, especially at the executive level. You can't have people going into these international meetings and blathering on about how they really feel. "Hey, Putin, that's ugly tie ya got there!" Not that I think Bernie would say that, mind you, but both he and Trump scare me for their lack of finesse. I like Bernie's policies whereas I have no idea what Trump's policies actually are (no one does because he's such a populist). Frankly, I want the slightly dishonest person sitting at those international tables, not someone who's going to call everyone a loser or another someone waving his finger at everyone. Now, I think Hillary has her own issue with temperament. I just don't think it's anywhere near as bad as Bernie's. None of them are Obama. He was so finessed on that recent Fox New interview and, mind you, I was totally against him in '08 due to his lack of experience but, damn. He is literally the very essence of the thing I am talking about here. Yes, he's going to couch the truth. Yes he's going to finesse the details. But he's not going to be tearing through like a bull in a china shop.

So yeah, I'd like to see Hillary adopt some of the planks of Bernie's platform. Heck, I'd even support a committed $15 an hour minimum wage so long as it is designed with special incentives to ease the pain to small business owners, which is something I see her being far more conscientious about than him.

Bear in mind, my vote is irrelevant by this point. Louisiana already voted.

[snot]

49. Link??????

[grasswire]

55. sorry, saw it on TV

maybe you can find it on CNN. maybe not.

[yellowcanine]

77. Or maybe someone tweeted it?

[The Second Stone]

57. The delegates as a whole will be quite a bit more liberal than

the electorate. Passing a liberal platform really isn't a problem. It is usually a formality, but I imagine this year it will be a bit more drawn out.

[snowy owl]

60. God Bless Bernie and I'm an atheist. If there is one, please bless the man. He is our hope.

[Demsrule86]

65. If Sanders suspends before California or right after...maybe a decent speech slot

If not, no reason to give him anything...he has essentially ruined his political career and legacy. There, he was yesterday attacking the Democratic party and Hillary too. I don't understand as important as this election is, knowing he can't win why he would act this way.

[Eric J in MN]

68. When Sanders spoke in Indiana last night

....he criticized Donald Trump the most harshly of all.

[Demsrule86]

72. He still says stuff about her

It just is not helpful with such an important election. He also has attacked the Democratic Party. I don't see that as being helpful for our main job...win the general. I don't understand what he thinks he can accomplish. Delegates are generally liberal, we will have the most liberal platform since the 70's. He does not need to stay in to have influence. In fact, I think he will have less influence if he has not endorsed her by the convention robustly.

[brooklynite]

67. Last time I heard about this, Sanders had three people on the Platform Committee...

[Eric J in MN]

70. Of how many? NT

NT

[Robbins]

73. I disagree

If bernie isn't nominated he will have no power.

If Clinton is the nominee she will make the platform.now she won't try to pretend to be progressive.

Besides even if platform appears to be benefit to bernie and his ideas the primary has proven clinton.dem leaders,and establishment aren't progressive and can't be trusted.

[Uncle Joe]

74. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, grasswire.

[BernieforPres2016]

75. Does anybody really think what's in the platform matters?

I looked at the 2008 Democratic platform recently and there is a pledge in there to reduce the number of people living in poverty in half over the following 10 years. We're 2 years away and based on the most recent data (which is a year or two old), the number of people living in poverty has gone UP. So have there been some initiatives to live up to that platform plank that I've missed?

[noretreatnosurrender]

79. It's up to the voters

to hold them accountable to the platform.

[BernieforPres2016]

80. I don't recall ever hearing of a President being held to a platform after an election

What's in the platform is usually a 2 or 3 day story while it's being debated. They are typically watered down into nothing so they can't be attacked from the other side during the general election campaign.

I have no idea how anybody really thinks Hillary is somehow going to be pinned down to some of Bernie's positions even if they do make it into the platform. Her supporters have made it clear that they don't hold her accountable for anything: NAFTA, the Iraq War vote, etc. Why would they start now?

[noretreatnosurrender]

82. I would agree

but if that is the only thing we have we can at least try to creatively use it to pressure Congress. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean we can't try it. Of course I hope we won't have to do so because she won't be there. And you are right, her supporters would never use it to hold her accountable but that doesn't mean we can't use it. If she gets in I'm willing to use whatever tool is available.

[BernieforPres2016]

83. I am hoping that Bernie will be a very loud watchdog if Hillary gets into the White House

His speeches on the Senate floor should get a lot more attention going forward than they have in the past. It would be great if he could sponsor legislation on his issues and force her to take a position on them, but I don't think that's realistic because there are a no more than a handful of Senate Democrats (if that) who would dare to cross Hillary and the DNC establishment.

[noretreatnosurrender]

84. Time will tell

He will certainly continue to be a watchdog and we can make him even stronger with our voices supporting him. We will all have to be very creative in how we continue this movement and I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion on the best ways to accomplish the change that is needed. For now, I'm still focused on the Primaries. It's still possible that he could become the nominee although it has become much more difficult to do so. One thing is for certain it will be a very interesting convention. I will do whatever I can to support this movement. I will continue to donate money, work on the campaign and vote in my May primary and I know millions of Bernie supporters will do likewise. This is our best chance in decades to actually change the system and so it's full steam ahead for me.

[yellowcanine]

76. The candidate with the most delegates "owns" the platform.

Concessions are often made for party unity but the candidate who has the delegates to get the nomination gets the last word.
This is political punditry at its worst, imo.

[Orsino]

85. I dunno about enormous, but we have bought some influence...

...with which to buy some concessions to progressivism.

[Tarc]

86. Last I checked, 2,200 was greater than 1,500

Or however the exact numbers wind up, he will have far less. What makes his #2 position significant to the platform discussions?