2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumShe'll get the nom but shame on Hillary supporters for being OK with not releasing the transcripts!
Don't you want to know what was said to the money people behind closed doors? Don't you think we are entitled to know? Don't you think it reeks of entitlement? Don't you think they will get leaked in the general? Sheesh.
Two words: President Trump.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)From the comments of those who heard the speeches, Hillary kissed the asses of the Wall Streeters and told them they were the gods they think they are. For that kind of money I would do the same thing, but it just won't go over well with the voters.
dinkytron
(568 posts)be paraphrased by some that attended and probably turned into political ads. She will lose this election all by herself.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)I don't care. As a private citizen, she can give any such speech. And what about Bernie's taxes. Why won't he release them?
dinkytron
(568 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 29, 2016, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)
You know it and I know it.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)There is a precedent for candidates to release full and complete tax returns. There is NO precedent for releasing transcripts of speeches.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)She never claimed to have said that in a speech she gave while a private citizen.
You might at least TRY to get the facts straight once in a while.
insta8er
(960 posts)about your morally corrupt candidate.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)And the vast majority of the populace couldn't care less.
Oh, and BTW, if this is such an important issue, why was no one demanding transcripts before the first week in February, when Chuck Todd mentioned them? The incredibly astute Bernie folks never even bothered to find out whether there were any transcripts, audio recordings, or videos until then.
Bernie has lost any chance at the nomination. That's the fact. So any hope of digging through transcripts and finding a "gotcha" statement to change that fact have been rendered moot.
It's time to accept that HRC is the nominee, and move on.
insta8er
(960 posts)in the evolutionary ladder.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... as people who think the man who said "It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party" isn't a hypocrite.
One can only wonder where Bernie's "morals and convictions" went when he did a complete about-face and ran on the Democratic ticket, or how he described his reason for doing so as "needing the media attention" he would only get by being a hypocrite.
Bernie is a flim-flam man who used the Dem Party to advance his own political career - and who is now fleecing his donors by insisting he still has a "path to the nomination" when he knows full well he doesn't.
Well, as they say, "A fool and his $27 are soon parted."
insta8er
(960 posts)but I guess the $27 seems to be bothering you more. More than the fact that hillary will screw you and the rest of the country over by handing her buddies on wall street the countries Social Security pot. Something even the Republicans could not pull off. But why would you want to talk about that? rather focusing on someone who wants to do something about this scourge of the elite class ripping this country off with their backdoor deals. I guess you would rather try to find a problem with the guy who is not a millionaire and stick it to him instead of the one that you know is gaming the system, on behalf of her paymasters. You once again showed how we can go backwards as a society by just looking the other way. Look....>>>>>a squirrel.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)... is people insisting that Bernie is honest, straightforward and ethical - when he so obviously isn't.
He's taking donations under the false pretense that he can still "win it", when everyone knows his chances of "winning it" are down to zero.
insta8er
(960 posts)like the fracking industry, the banking industry, the pharmaceutical companies who are pushing the money towards Clinton. All because she is going to go after them when she is president(yeah right). Are you really that of a devotee to your candidate that her being bought by a bunch of corporations that ultimately will want her to do their bidding vs the regular folks giving who the hell they want to give money to? you seriously have your priorities mixed up. You do understand why she said during the townhall that fracking should be possible in a controlled way right? BECAUSE SHE IS PAID BY THOSE SOB's FROM THE FRACKING INDUSTRY. Why she said that there is no way for Single Payer...BECAUSE SHE IS BEING PAID BY BIG PHARMA!!! and they don't want government control on pricing. Meanwhile you fret about regular folks giving 27 bucks to a socialist.
NanceGreggs
(27,815 posts)Thanks for the usual list of cliches. It's been at least fifteen minutes since I last heard them.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)A-OK with it. I mean, principles and convictions are so yesterday.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)n/t
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)As for desperation, Why should I be desperate? She has won. I don't care about the speeches...she got the banks to fork over their money...good for her.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)to the tune of 100 million dollaars to Oil and Defense companies. Would we be wrong to demand to see the transcripts?
GreenPartyVoter
(72,378 posts)G_j
(40,367 posts)and rightly so.
radical noodle
(8,003 posts)as the sitting VP and never released what they discussed.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)shame me for anything. I have a right to vote for the person I select without any backtalk from you. Where's Bernie's tax returns, if you're looking for some "dirt" on someone?
redwitch
(14,944 posts)Best to stay out of chat rooms then.
kayakjohnny
(5,235 posts)Thank you!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I swear, your posts are all copy/pasted versions of the same post.
mooseprime
(474 posts)is software generated. and there are armies of drones underground somewhere who just point and click.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)One trick pony.
dinkytron
(568 posts)big money. And there is plenty else to beef about.
on edit: And its not old news because it is still unresolved. Totally within her power to put and end to the speculation and make it old news.
trumad
(41,692 posts)All this right wing shit is dumbing down the place.
dinkytron
(568 posts)"big money in politics" & "Citizens United" are at the forefront of the dialogue, do you and so many others find a desire for transparency regarding the G.S. transcripts, echoed by so many progressives beside me, to be so loathsome and annoying?
It's not fun bringing it up for the umpteenth time. But until it's resolved which is well whithin Hillary's power to do so, it's still a vital issue.
Are we supposed get tired of asking? Or shamed into not bringing it up anymore?
Look, my candidate did not fold his tent yet. I plan to vote in CA primary. When it's done, if she has the nomination, "I'm with her".
Also, maybe your scapegoating me for all the BS around here but really, the knife cuts both ways.
Finally, fuck Goldman Sachs, merchants of misery.
That's grand. We bore you so much you spend half your day typing nonsensical retorts.
I agree, all the right wing shit Hillary supporters push IS dumbing down the place. But then again, DU has always had a 3rd Way, right wing element
Tick Tock BSer---Tick Tock
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Her books, her testimonies on the Hill, she's been vetted for 25 years. Im good. Theres even video:
And my cousin works for GS , attended a speech, said it was 45 minutes of talking about how to improve access to capital for people in places of extreme poverty such as sub-saharan Africa. Boring wonky stuff.
I think we've probed this woman enough and far more than anyone else running.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)someone has gone in her house, removed her underwear drawer from her dresser or closet, and brought it outside and emptied it on to the driveway where it must be filmed and inventoried.
After that we will need a long discussion about style and brand so we can determine which corporation(s) she is beholden to.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)It has been my experience that the person(s) who keeps calling for more investigation and information and like to point fingers are themselves the dishonest/lying scumbags.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)Would you be willing to have her release them then? Or are you so sure she'll win, she shouldn't have to release them. I'm just trying to figure out your logic. And I believe Bernie will need to release his 2015 tax returns too.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Go into the voting booth with them? Make them sign an affidavit?
floriduck
(2,262 posts)But I'm just curious if that agreement would be worth anyone's time and effort. Please understand the risk. If Hillary did sell all of us a bill of goods, we'd know it and it could further threaten her campaign. But if her speeches were clean and no hints of favors or back room support, then everyone would know and could vote to support her.
The same goes for Bernies tax returns. If he was hiding funds to shelter from paying taxes, that would tell all of us a lot about his character. So the risk goes both ways.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)about poverty and growing a middle class in third world countries than they have about working class Americans' economically security. Its a better fit for their "enlightened" economic growth agenda (read: greater personal wealth horizons via expanded markets/cheap labor).
Logical
(22,457 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Unlike TAXES which Sanders refuses to release in full.
As for shame
well. I'm not the one supporting a candidate who lied about being invited to the Vatican by the Pope to speak or who touts 5% growth during his Administration.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)FFS. I don't like the woman, and I voted against her, but nobody cares.
Literally, nobody cares which particular focus-grouped bromides she chose to speak on that day as opposed to the next.
Nobody cares. Do you understand that?
MisterP
(23,730 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)We've never had a candidate before who had periods of time between public service and was highly paid to give speeches during that time. These were private speeches and I'm betting that any organization would not be pleased to have private speeches made public simply on principle.
The only reason they become a point of contention is for those who are hoping to find some snippet to use against her so I tend to discount the idea that they're important in any way.
As for the Trump angle, he won't dare make it an issue because the obvious response is for him to do the same and I would bet enormous amounts of money that his speeches are much more damaging to the idea of fairness and income equality.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
KPN
(15,646 posts)Dick Cheney comes to mind for one. All of you probably ballyhooed about his ties to Halliburton.
randome
(34,845 posts)Maybe we did but I doubt I would have been on that particular bandwagon. And the obsession with Clinton has an only too obvious goal -to take down the Democratic Party's leading candidate. Which I don't see happening, regardless.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]
KPN
(15,646 posts)Hillary just happens to have one of the biggest direct ties to big money. Being the front runner is incidental.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)enough about her to see how she will govern. They would just confirm her Centrist/3rd Way/neolib politics.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)But don't let me stop you from spewing more nonsense.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)which means you are A-Okay with SuperPACs, big money influence in politics and law-making, and the corruption that is going on all the time, every day in Washington DC because of it. ...
OTHERWISE you'd be calling for the too.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)You better hope she doesn't release them or your Third Way dream of the the next 4 years go Ka-pow!
-none
(1,884 posts)Bernie already released those he needed to. If those transcripts weren't so damning damaging, they would have been released already. But none have been. That leads to the obvious conclusion that doing so would hurt her campaign. Correct?
Those transcripts should not have anything to do with Bernie's tax returns and everything to do with Hillary's honesty. And that is why she won't release them.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Now we can concentrate on the issues that matter. Social Security, minimum wages, affordable health care for all, Living wage jobs, Getting out of the Middle East and cutting our so-called defense budget by 75% or more... You know, stuff that affects the average American trying to make it.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)tirebiter
(2,537 posts)Late on Thursday, the New York Times magazine published a lengthy profile of Hillary Clinton under an illustration of her as a toy soldier and the headline "How Hillary Clinton Became a Hawk."
The profile, by Mark Landler, traces her evolution on foreign policy, explores her legacy as secretary of state, and seeks to deduce a Clinton worldview. It's fascinating, deeply reported, and well worth reading. It also reiterates what is perhaps the defining piece of conventional wisdom about Hillary Clinton and foreign policy: she is a super-hawk.
"For all their bluster about bombing the Islamic State into oblivion, neither Donald J. Trump nor Senator Ted Cruz of Texas have demonstrated anywhere near the appetite for military engagement abroad that Clinton has," Landler writes.
"Unexpectedly, in the bombastic, testosterone-fueled presidential election of 2016, Hillary Clinton is the last true hawk left in the race," he adds.
A few hours after the piece went online, something else was published comparing the presidential candidates on foreign policy. And the story it told could not have been more different.
It was a simple scorecard, assembled by a non-partisan nuclear nonproliferation group called Global Zero, comparing the five remaining candidates on a battery of eight foreign policy issues.
On every issue that Global Zero measured, Clinton is indicated as far less hawkish than all three of the Republican candidates, and as basically tied with Bernie Sanders. She supports the Iran nuclear deal; the Republicans all oppose it. She supports using diplomacy to solve the North Korean nuclear crisis; John Kasich is the only Republican to do so. She supports negotiating with Russia to reduce nuclear weapons; no Republican candidate does.
This measured only policies related to nuclear weapons, and so is far from comprehensive. But on these major geopolitical challenges including the Iranian and North Korean nuclear programs, which seem among the few crises that could plausibly draw the US into war Clinton is significantly more dovish than all three Republican candidates.
How to reconcile these two seemingly contradictory stories about Hillary Clinton's foreign policy, in which the conventional wisdom portrays her as a super-hawk surpassing every remaining Republican, whereas a straight reading of her policies often suggests almost the exact opposite?
Put another way: Is the conventional wisdom right? Is Clinton really the biggest hawk in the race?
We have three distinct ways of evaluating a candidate's foreign policy, and you really need to look at all three: her past record, her current policies, and her larger worldview.
Taken together, in Clinton's case, these three metrics give a more complicated view of her foreign policy than the conventional wisdom suggests.
They reveal Clinton as someone who is exceptionally enthusiastic about the merits and potential of American engagement in the world. She is indeed, more than any other candidate in the race, a true believer in American power.
But Clinton's policies and past record suggest that her vision of power includes military force as well as diplomacy, so that while she is more likely to act in foreign affairs, she is also more likely to do so peacefully.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Congrats!
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)+1
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)What Hillary Clinton "possibly" said in her speeches, nor do I care about what's contained in Bernie & Jane Sander's taxes.
Mike Nelson
(9,959 posts)...I don't need to see the transcripts and don't need to see all of Bernie's tax forms, either. I figured it all out on my own!
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)People are paid to speak by companies, groups, and organizations. They rarely ever speak about the business or functions of those groups. Rarely. They hire them to hear their life experiences. The more experiences, the more they are paid. The more influential the person, they are paid even more. Bernie has just not done anything that is of interest to anybody.
No, you, Bernie's wife, or any other Bernie supporter are entitled to anything of the sort. Entitled is a peculiar word for you to use also.
Go ahead and vote for Trump. Most Bernie supporters won't vote anyway and wouldn't in November if Bernie as the nominee. Your interest, and that of other like yourself, is far too short.
onecaliberal
(32,863 posts)talking about how transparent they are. Look, 67% of this country thinks she's a liar. Do you think that helps her cause. If she had nothing to hide, they would have been released. It's just that simple. If it were policy speeches, they'd be released. No amount of double speak, and bullshit is going to convince me. She needs to STOP talking out every side of her mouth, and put up or shut up. She's NOT transparent.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Shredding about to occur
nolawarlock
(1,729 posts)I don't care about it now.
Of all of the Hillary controversies over her last 25 years on the national stage, this really ranked down there the least, with the emails being a close second, followed closely by Ron Brown's plane. (quick, did you hear something overhead?)
pandr32
(11,588 posts)Not to mention it would be unprecedented. Releasing full tax filings for multiple years has a long tradition for those being vetted for higher office. Hillary Clinton released many.
Response to dinkytron (Original post)
Post removed
Buzz cook
(2,472 posts)Did you think of that one yourself or did you steal it?
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)They were Kerry supporters in 2004
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Conversations with the likes of NRA and Lockheed Martin, we see the results of the $18,000 donation to defeat Sanders opponent, he rewarded them by voting the way the NRA wanted on gun issues. Sanders has not produced this information on Hiilary. Sanders gives to the influence.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Buzz cook
(2,472 posts)on several occasions.
It boils down to this, historically when a Clinton, or any democrat for that matter releases information on demand, the group making the demand don't give a shit about the information. What those people are looking for is a hook to hang an allegation on.
Its the Rose law firm records all over again.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)The only people interested in the transcripts are people who wouldn't vote for her anyway. I'd tell them to go pound sand.