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GreenPartyVoter

(72,378 posts)
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:04 AM Apr 2016

If it was Martin O'Malley who was in the lead ahead of Bernie at Convention, would we find it easier

as a party to unite behind him?

Speaking for myself, if he had run a clean campaign and won legitimately, I would still have been heartbroken over not getting Bernie, but I wouldn't feel like I am voting against the Repubs via the Dem the same way as I would with Hillary if she gets the nomination.

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If it was Martin O'Malley who was in the lead ahead of Bernie at Convention, would we find it easier (Original Post) GreenPartyVoter Apr 2016 OP
This - djean111 Apr 2016 #1
Right now, Martin O'Malley is the nice man who didn't ruffle any feathers... Skinner Apr 2016 #2
As a Martin O'Malley Supporter... Peacetrain Apr 2016 #9
You do raise a good point. There may have been skeletons in his closet that would have GreenPartyVoter Apr 2016 #10
Must disagree with that interpretation Armstead Apr 2016 #13
Your post and mine are not mutually exclusive. Skinner Apr 2016 #18
I think it is a credit to both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders that they were able to StevieM Apr 2016 #39
Mo'M Supporter here, and you are spot on. Raine1967 Apr 2016 #32
I find your analysis to be spot-on. nt BootinUp Apr 2016 #33
you all have worked yourselves up over some inflated nonsense about Clinton bigtree Apr 2016 #3
I haven't worked myself up over inflated nonsense and I don't sit on an angry monmouth4 Apr 2016 #7
Hillary is within the mainstream of progressive possibility among our party's elected Democrats bigtree Apr 2016 #12
That's become a very narrow spectrum over the past 30 yeats Armstead Apr 2016 #14
Good lord. Orsino Apr 2016 #15
I didn't like OMalley. He's Hillary-lite. aikoaiko Apr 2016 #4
David Simon, former Baltimore Sun reporter and creator of The Wire, on O'Malley BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #16
I should probably call him a Hillary Wannabe. aikoaiko Apr 2016 #17
Maybe gender plays a role? Subconsciously? nt ecstatic Apr 2016 #5
No. But policy and record do. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #20
Martin and Bernie dont understand intersectional feminism. JaneyVee Apr 2016 #6
Oh please, do enlighten us..n/t monmouth4 Apr 2016 #8
O'Malley talked a lot of baseless bullshit about Bernie in the debates. emulatorloo Apr 2016 #11
I'd be fine with O'Malley. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #19
I do not recall him shilling for the Iraq war or voting for the Patriot act. PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #21
What the hell does "a corporate" mean? Recursion Apr 2016 #23
what I mean by "corporate" PowerToThePeople Apr 2016 #25
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #27
Well, I would, certainly Recursion Apr 2016 #22
Martin O'Malley was my 2nd choice. Very disappointed he could not stay in the race. nc4bo Apr 2016 #24
I don't know about him getting pushed out BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #26
Media was no friend to O'Malley. nc4bo Apr 2016 #28
Clearly the media was tilted towards Trump and Hillary BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #30
MoM ran a clean campaign. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #29
O'Malley, being male, would have earned SOME Sanders camp enmity Tarc Apr 2016 #31
Absolutely. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #34
Absolutely. Second choice, but I would enthusiastically volunteer for him. JudyM Apr 2016 #35
Martin O'Malley is a man. nt LexVegas Apr 2016 #36
He was my first choice. Xyzse Apr 2016 #37
Maybe, maybe not. Beacool Apr 2016 #38
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
1. This -
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:08 AM
Apr 2016
I wouldn't feel like I am voting against the Repubs via the Dem the same way as I would with Hillary if she gets the nomination.

That's because you would not be voting against the GOP via a Democrat. The Third way worships money instead of ideology. That's the only difference.

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
2. Right now, Martin O'Malley is the nice man who didn't ruffle any feathers...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:16 AM
Apr 2016

...and quietly dropped out when it was clear he wouldn't win. People like that are easy to like.

If there were an alternate reality in which Martin O'Malley won the nomination, I have no doubt that along the way he would have slammed his opponent(s) for various reasons (some legit and some not), pissed off plenty of people, been painted as an establishment tool, and had a number of surrogates who said truly offensive shit. In other words: in the alternate universe where Martin O'Malley won the nomination, he would have done everything necessary in order to win, and his opponent(s) would have done everything in their power to stop him. I suspect many people would not like that Martin O'Malley.

Of course, this is all hypothetical. So sure, why not? Martin O'Malley would have won the nomination that was both clean and legitimate, and people would have been totally cool with it. After all, he's Martin O'Malley -- that nice man who everyone likes.

Peacetrain

(22,877 posts)
9. As a Martin O'Malley Supporter...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:34 AM
Apr 2016

and precinct captain...You are exactly right.. and as I have written many many times.. if a person cannot win the primary/caucus of the party they are running in.. there is no way they would have ever won the general election.. there is no magical things that would have have been if only such and such would have won.. That is why I believe in the party first.. candidates come and go.. but the party marches on and gets it done..

GreenPartyVoter

(72,378 posts)
10. You do raise a good point. There may have been skeletons in his closet that would have
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:35 AM
Apr 2016

soured me somewhat. Probably true of most candidates. But I guess my query was really to get a sense of if people are "Not Hillary, others OK" or "Bernie only."

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
13. Must disagree with that interpretation
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:42 AM
Apr 2016

When he was in the race, many Sanders supporters were much more supportive of him and his policies overall.

Wasn't all hearts and flowers of course. He did say some things that cheesed Sanders people off ("we don't need a socialist&quot and there were disagreements over policies among supporters. .

But overall the tone was much different between the Sanders and O'Malley "camps" because he was basically positive and policy oriented. he also represented a true "middle course" that reflected many of the positions of Sanders in a more traditional framework. Sanders people felt much more comfortable with him as a competitor and would have been more comfortable if he had done better in the primary.

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
18. Your post and mine are not mutually exclusive.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:11 AM
Apr 2016

The "positive and policy oriented" O'Malley is also the candidate that won 0.5% in the Iowa caucuses. Of course we all like him -- he was never a threat.

We can all imagine in our minds an alternate reality in which Martin O'Malley somehow became a serious contender for the nomination while also remaining "positive and policy oriented" and maintaining the goodwill of supporters of other candidates. But that doesn't mean that's how it would have actually happened here in the real world. In fact, I think the abundant evidence here on DU and elsewhere strongly suggests otherwise.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
39. I think it is a credit to both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders that they were able to
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:45 PM
Apr 2016

outdistance Martin O'Malley so decisively and so quickly.

We all remember the O'Malley who never rose too high...who was never a threat. But we should think back and recall the Martin O'Malley who was talked about as a future presidential candidate for 15 years, going back to when he was mayor of Baltimore. O'Malley had the right look and he had the right record. And a lot of people thought he would be president some day.

Clinton and Sanders both offered something that the voters wanted more and so they became the two finalists. Given who their competition was, and O'Malley's strengths, it was an impressive accomplishment for both of them.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
32. Mo'M Supporter here, and you are spot on.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:11 PM
Apr 2016

I have no more to add to this little bit of reality based on the backdrop of a hypothetical.

It's politics.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
3. you all have worked yourselves up over some inflated nonsense about Clinton
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:25 AM
Apr 2016

...hopefully you'll come down from your angry cloud and focus back on the real opposition to our party's progressive agenda.

monmouth4

(9,708 posts)
7. I haven't worked myself up over inflated nonsense and I don't sit on an angry
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

cloud. My party's progressive agenda has hardly survived and she would be the worst to help it along. She is such a poor choice and the progressive agenda is a joke.

bigtree

(85,998 posts)
12. Hillary is within the mainstream of progressive possibility among our party's elected Democrats
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:37 AM
Apr 2016

...admittedly not as strident as some in her progressive agenda, but not as resistant to it as she's been portrayed by Sanders and his support.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
14. That's become a very narrow spectrum over the past 30 yeats
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:44 AM
Apr 2016
mainstream of progressive possibility among our party's elected Democrats

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
16. David Simon, former Baltimore Sun reporter and creator of The Wire, on O'Malley
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:08 AM
Apr 2016
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share-tools&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=post-top#.UOaIGNlCi

<The drug war began it, certainly, but the stake through the heart of police procedure in Baltimore was MARTIN O’MALLEY3. He destroyed police work in some real respects. Whatever was left of it when he took over the police department, if there were two bricks together that were the suggestion of an edifice that you could have called meaningful police work, he found a way to pull them apart. Everyone thinks I’ve got a hard-on for Marty because we battled over “The Wire,” whether it was bad for the city, whether we’d be filming it in Baltimore. But it’s been years, and I mean, that’s over. I shook hands with him on the train last year and we buried it. And, hey, if he's the Democratic nominee, I’m going to end up voting for him. It’s not personal and I admire some of his other stances on the death penalty and gay rights. But to be honest, what happened under his watch as Baltimore’s mayor was that he wanted to be governor. And at a certain point, with the crime rate high and with his promises of a reduced crime rate on the line, he put no faith in real policing.

Originally, early in his tenure, O’Malley brought Ed Norris in as commissioner and Ed knew his business. He’d been a criminal investigator and commander in New York and he knew police work. And so, for a time, real crime suppression and good retroactive investigation was emphasized, and for the Baltimore department, it was kind of like a fat man going on a diet. Just leave the French fries on the plate and you lose the first ten pounds. The initial crime reductions in Baltimore under O’Malley were legit and O’Malley deserved some credit.

But that wasn’t enough. O’Malley needed to show crime reduction stats that were not only improbable, but unsustainable without manipulation. And so there were people from City Hall who walked over Norris and made it clear to the district commanders that crime was going to fall by some astonishing rates. Eventually, Norris got fed up with the interference from City Hall and walked, and then more malleable police commissioners followed, until indeed, the crime rate fell dramatically. On paper.

How? There were two initiatives. First, the department began sweeping the streets of the inner city, taking bodies on ridiculous humbles, mass arrests, sending thousands of people to city jail, hundreds every night, thousands in a month. They actually had police supervisors stationed with printed forms at the city jail – forms that said, essentially, you can go home now if you sign away any liability the city has for false arrest, or you can not sign the form and spend the weekend in jail until you see a court commissioner. And tens of thousands of people signed that form.>

<The city eventually got sued by the ACLU and had to settle, but O’Malley defends the wholesale denigration of black civil rights to this day. Never mind what it did to your jury pool: now every single person of color in Baltimore knows the police will lie — and that's your jury pool for when you really need them for when you have, say, a felony murder case. But what it taught the police department was that they could go a step beyond the manufactured probable cause, and the drug-free zones and the humbles – the targeting of suspects through less-than-constitutional procedure. Now, the mass arrests made clear, we can lock up anybody, we don't have to figure out who's committing crimes, we don't have to investigate anything, we just gather all the bodies — everybody goes to jail. And yet people were scared enough of crime in those years that O’Malley had his supporters for this policy, council members and community leaders who thought, They’re all just thugs.>
 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
19. I'd be fine with O'Malley.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:14 AM
Apr 2016

He didn't oppose my civil rights until 2013
He didn't call young people of colour "superpredators"
He wasn't paid to fill for-profit prisons to the brim
He didn't take $650,000 for a speech for a big corrupting bank
He didn't vote for the Iraq War
He didn't turn Libya into a stronghold for ISIS
Or do the same with Iraq and Syria
He didn't ignore Obama's express orders to ignore advice from the war-hawk Blumenthal

Need I go on?

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
21. I do not recall him shilling for the Iraq war or voting for the Patriot act.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:19 AM
Apr 2016

Yes, he is corporate, but not a despicable Bushco ally in Democratic clothing.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
25. what I mean by "corporate"
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:28 AM
Apr 2016

I think he follows supply side, Chicago school of economics thinking, from what I have heard from him. I think he is more neo-liberal economically.

I think he would be received better by those on the left as the front runner.

Response to PowerToThePeople (Reply #25)

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
24. Martin O'Malley was my 2nd choice. Very disappointed he could not stay in the race.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:22 AM
Apr 2016

I say that with complete honesty.

He was pushed out the same way they wanted to push out Sanders. Definitely got in the way of someone's plans.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
26. I don't know about him getting pushed out
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:30 AM
Apr 2016

Unless you mean getting less than 1% of the vote in the Iowa caucus pushed him out. You can't raise money to have a viable candidacy when you have no support in the polls. During the final quarter of 2015, he raised only about a million dollars (excluding a $500K loan) compared to Hillary and Bernie raising over $30 million each.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
28. Media was no friend to O'Malley.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:34 AM
Apr 2016

He could have used the media's help but Trump sucked the air out the room.

Once upon a time, media actually served a noble purpose by giving fair and equal coverage to all the candidates.

I bet there are thousands if not millions of people who will say, "Martin who?"

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
30. Clearly the media was tilted towards Trump and Hillary
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:43 AM
Apr 2016

But the media has never given equal attention to what look to be marginal candidates, even in the days when there were still some standards in journalism. Lesser known politicians have to make a big enough showing in the polls in Iowa or New Hampshire to be considered viable candidates nationally. O'Malley didn't pass that test. I agree that there are millions of people who have no idea who he is, but I don't think it is on the media to carpet bomb the public with information on every candidate. There were how many, 16 on the Republican side?

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
29. MoM ran a clean campaign.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:35 AM
Apr 2016

I probably would have voted for him in GE, even if he wasn't my 'perfect' candidate. Clinton's nasty campaign makes it impossible.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
31. O'Malley, being male, would have earned SOME Sanders camp enmity
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:45 AM
Apr 2016

but it would have been rather muted, compared to the anti-Hillary vitriol.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
34. Absolutely.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:17 PM
Apr 2016

As far as I know, he's never greased the skids of weapons deals after getting donations from the country and weapons manufacturer. As far as I know, he's never treated state secrets with less care than I give my photo album. As far as I know, he's never used super pacs to buy superdelegates and launder cash for his campaign.

And I do know that he didn't vote to support a war in Iraq.

So yes.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
35. Absolutely. Second choice, but I would enthusiastically volunteer for him.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:17 PM
Apr 2016

I will not volunteer 1 minute of my time for Clinton, now that I have learned what she has done.

Beacool

(30,250 posts)
38. Maybe, maybe not.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 12:24 PM
Apr 2016

We can hypothesize about various candidates, but the reality is that we have two candidates who are still in the race and only one of them will be the nominee.

BTW, Hillary is winning legitimately. Democratic state rules have been in effect for years. I heard a lot of complaints about closed primaries, particularly after NY. IMO, they should all be closed primaries. Why should Independents have a say on who should be the Democratic nominee? If they want to vote for a Democrat, then join the party and have skin in the game.


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