Why did Bernie Sanders believe he could start a political revolution in 10 months?

[asuhornets]

Now I believe political revolutions can happen, but it usually takes years and lots of hard work and planning. But never the less, Sanders was in Oregon criticizing the Democratic Party that he joined only 10 months ago. He should have been criticizing the Republicans and Trump and bring forth some unity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Shhh...it has been roiling for years

This is another fucking marker

[Armstead]

8. Bingo

[dinkytron]

45. NB, you are always on point in this joint.

[Orsino]

47. Much more succinctly than I or Billy Joel would have said it.

[Unicorn]

60. +1

And you said it way better than I .

[lagomorph777]

66. I've been listening to "Brunch with Bernie" for YEARS

...not months!

This is always the meme of the status quo: "It's too soon for change; try again some day after we're all dead."

[anigbrowl]

105. Yes, right along with the alien disclosure files

I wish I had $1 for everyone who has ever told me there's a revolution brewing. In reality it has taken a good 25 years of patient activism to get to making pot semi-legal and maybe decriminalizing recreational use within the next 5-10. I've been hearing about imminent revolutions for 30 years...from people who want me to join their revolution and take direction from them because they know what's really going on. At this point when someone starts talking about revolution just sit back and wait for the ask. I don't usually have to wait long.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Well we have had movements already

and you know what? If the Founding Fathers parents took your attitude, we would be still be a colony. It took over a generation for that to actually explode into open warfare. While you keep that talk, the youth are indeed getting radicalized. Ever so slowly. Oh and they already got something out of this. $15 bucks in both NY and CA, not that it is the best, but it is something.

[anigbrowl]

109. Yeah, in fact 'movements' are a staple of American political life

I made it quite clear that I wasn't arguing against change, but that real change tends to come slowly and incrementally rather than in big revolutionary gestures most of the time. But keep it up with the straw man arguments, I always like seeing how original you are in that department.

[nadinbrzezinski]

110. And I always enjoy the attacks

[Thinkingabout]

2. K & R, good post. It is about electing Democrats at every level, this will bring change.

[Ron Green]

84. Electing Democrats will do it? Just doing that?

[Thinkingabout]

86. How successful has Republicans getting elected has helped progressive ideas.

In fact, I would like to see a list.

[Ron Green]

94. That depends on whether you're talking about Republicans with an (R) or a (D)

beside their names.

[ibegurpard]

3. He did

You think this is over?

[Armstead]

9. Bernie is the messenger for something that is reaching critical mass

Been building up for years...and will continue after the primary

[asuhornets]

13. I hope so, I really do. eom

[Cal33]

51. I agree with you. The majority of both Democrats and Republicans are sick and

tired of their respective Establishment people, who are catering only to the
wishes of the Corporations and never listen to the average Joe and Jane.
People are quitting the two major Parties by the millions. This general
dissatisfaction probably was caused by Reagan's economic policies. It
took a long time to grow as the American people slowly began to feel the
effects. It is reaching a critical mass now.

The work started by Warren and Sanders has a good chance of continuing --
even after the both of them will have retired from the political scene, I hope.
I don't believe this movement will stop until real change will have been
achieved. However long it will take. They have started the ball rolling
downhill. It's gathering mass and momentum, and it's not likely stoppable.

One way or another change is coming. I hope it will be a peaceful one.

[snooper2]

64. Interesting, how come a majority of Democrats aren't voting for the "revolution" then?

[anigbrowl]

106. Ah, the great prophecy

It's kind of disturbing how similar revolutionary aphorisms are to religious ones.

[PowerToThePeople]

4. There was a massive void to fill

I think he has done superb considering all the obstacles, including the short window of time.

[morningfog]

5. What don't you understand about the word "start?"

[asuhornets]

18. Ok

What does the word "start" means to you?

[morningfog]

19. You chose the word, what did you intend it to mean?

Start -- to begin. It's not a hard word, I'm not sure why you are struggling with it.

[asuhornets]

21. I'm not

I thought you had a new definition for it.

[morningfog]

56. Cool. Then we are in agreement that your OP is bunk.

[asuhornets]

67. that's makes no sense..

Why do you feel Bernie Sanders is above criticism? But Hillary Clinton has been talked about constantly in a negative way all the time here.

[morningfog]

70. Now that post makes no sense. When did I say Bernie is above criticism?

What are you even talking about?

[asuhornets]

76. Figure it out...You seem like a smart person...Maybe...eom

[anigbrowl]

107. What don't you understand about the fixed election calendar?

The US is rather unusual among developed countries in that it holds elections at constitutionally-mandated fixed intervals rather than at the whim of the incumbent government, subject to certain time limits as in many other jurisdictions.

If you want to start a political revolution in the US, you get going on it much earlier rather than pretending that you didn't know when the election was to start getting ready. I'm not a fan of Ralph Nader or Ron Paul but at least they were trying to build momentum through multiple election election cycles.

I'm not having a go at Sanders here. I'm having a go at the people that are so eager for a revolution that they abandoned or never developed the critical thinking skills to realize that you can't possibly get a revolution going in a single electoral cycle but are willing to follow some politician who assures them that they can.

I have much much more respect for groups like the Working Families Party that treat it as a long slow slog and work to get people elected on the local level and to less well-known offices. Their efforts are likely to make much more difference than the glorified beauty contest that is a Presidential primary election.

[tokenlib]

6. The rebellion against the Third Way corporatists...

..has been close to boiling over for awhile. Obama delayed it with "hope and change".until we realized the Third Way still ruled.. what was the drop in registered voters in the Dem Party since 2008?

And with Occupy and the anger over the " new" economy... There was an army waiting for Bernie..


It isn't going away. The party will shrink if Hillary prevails.

[asuhornets]

22. The problem with your analogy is this

Democrats are not as pissed off as the Repug voters. Obama and Hillary are well liked among Democrats.

[tokenlib]

32. "Democrats"," former Democrats, Independents..

The party is shrinking.. Those polls are suspect because they don't reflect everyone fed up...The Third Way is killing the party.. 29% registered voters and shrinking more if Hillary prevails.

[Cal33]

57. You've got to be kidding! Clinton is popular among the Democrats? I understand that

she and Trump are the two most negatively rated front-runners for the Presidency in
U.S. history. Hillary is winning because she is being propped up by the DNC with all
the tricks at their command. Without their help she probably would have been losing
very badly by now.

[asuhornets]

59. The DNC did not trick me into voting for her.

25 years of right-wing smears have worked to a certain degree.

[Cal33]

72. OK, so are you saying that you have similar political views as Hillary? I certainly

do have political views very similar to those of Bernie and Elizabeth.

Let me give you an example: The way DWS arranged the scheduling of
the Democratic Primary Presidential Debates of 2016. If that wasn't
rigging things in favor of Hillary and against Bernie, what would you call it?

[asuhornets]

74. I have very similiars views to those of Hillary, Bernie, and Elizabeth.

There's nothing wrong with that.

[Cal33]

79. In some areas they might think alike. For instance, I don't think Hillary would nominate

another Right Wing Republican as SCOTUS. On the other hand, Bernie has never
accepted a single cent from the Corporate Power people, and he never will. Can
you say the same about Hillary?

Edited: typo and grammatical error.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. He did start it. It still has a very long way to go

but he knows that and so do we. You have to start somewhere, and a campaign that engaged this many people is a damn good start.

[SheenaR]

10. Yeah...

I cant wait to compromise the issues important to me and vote for the lesser of two evils for "unity".

This will last a long long time. I got out of the game for 8 years. I'm back and I like others are not stopping until this platform is realized.

[asuhornets]

36. So Hillary

should adopt Bernie's entire platform? Even though she is winning. If Democratic voters wanted Bernie Sanders platform, He would be winning.

[Eric J in MN]

42. Some of her voters probably decided based on

...things besides her platform, such as:

- Her Secretary of State experience
- Thinking she's more electable

[SheenaR]

50. She can do what she wants

And nobody can say otherwise.

I will be working hard against her if she feels that single-payer, paid-family leave, tuition free are just "too tough" to fight for.

Perhaps not in November. But I will fight tooth and nail to get the things that both you and I deserve as rights in this country.

[MgtPA]

11. The revolution started in a lot less than 10 months.

[Cal33]

98. Yes, and the large numbers of angry people were already there for decades, and

growing by the day. I believe it was Reagan who successfully fooled the American people
with his new economics. It took years before they began to see that they had been fooled.
There still are large numbers who don't yet see it, or are for it, but the majority do see it.
Today the fuel pile has become huge, and ready to burst into fire.

[larkrake]

12. Dont look now, but he has started a revolution. Take your blinders off

The Democratic Party is no longer democratic- it is mutated into corporate 3rd way. Unity belongs to Bernie. He is supported by all partys, mainly the independents who saw the destruction of the Dem Party years ago. Indies number 1/3 the country, and after Hillary, will become the dominant constituency. That is a guarantee.

The MSM and Hillary Juggernaut have failed to silence the wisdom of an open mind and clear sight that Bernie represents

[IdaBriggs]

14. You appear to be clueless as to the amount of ANGER toward establishment

candidates. Right now, the only "rebel vote" available is for Trump the Lunatic, who (by the way) can play the media like a fiddle after being cast as the Brilliant Businessman/Leader for fourteen season of a hit/profitable "reality show" running against "my husband cheated on me/I failed to accomplish anything as a Senator/I don't know how technology works and I am a disaster at foreign policy stuff" with pictures of dead Americans under her watch for background footage.

People want a POSITIVE CHANGE. Barring that, the country is in a "throw the bums out" mood. Bernie's biggest selling point is that he WAS an Independent, which most people in this country admire.

Also, he's a sane statesman/not an entertainer. He's impressive. Hillary is inspiring, but only in the way that drives people into her opponents arms.

Thrown in an FBI indictment, and hello President Trump.

[asuhornets]

23. Like I said in a previous post:

I believe you are overestimating the anger of Democratic voters. Democrats are not as pissed off as the Repug voters. Obama and Hillary are well liked among Democrats.

[IdaBriggs]

26. Obama is well liked. Hillary, not so much.

The GOTV effort prior to the primaries was especially telling (since the DNC didn't really have one).

Plus, a good percentage of the base hates her. And the FBI (an organization that investigates crimes) has confirmed they are investigating her actions.

She's a winner!

[asuhornets]

29. The people that hate her are not part of her base...n/t

[IdaBriggs]

33. Awesome! So my support and efforts on behalf of Obama,

And my Democratic Senator and Democratic Representative and GOTV efforts preclude me from being a member of the Democratic base?

Bless your heart for explaining that so clearly! Now that I understand that, I won't just assume you are a clueless idiot because really, you speak for the Party!

All hail the wise Internet poster who seeks to discourage party participation!

[asuhornets]

35. Your words:

"I won't just assume you are a clueless idiot" And you my dear is a useful idiot for the Sanders political revolution. It doesn't make any sense for him to continue to bash Democrats when he claims he is one. Explain that one.

[NurseJackie]

15. Would-a, should-a ...

Sanders was in Oregon criticizing the Democratic Party that he joined only 10 months ago. He should have been criticizing the Republicans and Trump and bring forth some unity.

He doesn't really think in those types of terms, does he? It's only black/white ... no shades of gray ... no nuance ... no room for compromise or dissent. But it's still puzzling why he'd be smearing his "own" party rather than the GOP.

That, in my opinion, is the type of myopia that is NOT one of the traits I hope to see in the President of the United States.

[asuhornets]

27. Agreed....

He knows the election is over for him. Why continue to diss the Party on his way out.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

16. No. And what makes you think he didn't start it? Or maybe you're point is, it had already begun.

Occupy started it, then it got moved along until Bernie said, "If no one else steps forward, then I will." And when no one else stepped forward (I think we were holding out for Warren), Bernie put it on PEDs. But the establishment, including MSM, has marginalized the revolution since Day 1. And Bernie, an old, obscure socialist from an overlooked state was their, i.e. the establishment and media, dream candidate. A target too easy to mock and ridicule they couldn't have cast a better character. But they underestimated the Revolution. They thought the kids had just showed up but the revolution had been underway for years.

[nolawarlock]

17. A real political revolution would have created a viable third party.

... the fact that they can't proves how "tent city in a local park" this so-called revolution really is.

[TCJ70]

24. Man, your signature is just full of assholery...

...but like your candidates strategy: Party Unity Later, right?

[nolawarlock]

25. I'm glad I could entertain you.

I'll be here all week.

[ibegurpard]

54. thanks for the warning

I'll stock up on antiseptic.

[nolawarlock]

55. heheheheh

Well, at least you have a sense of humor. More than I can say for most here.

[DavidDvorkin]

20. Ego.

[floriduck]

28. You might be right. In four years,

he could run as an independent and likely win if he did a good enough job recruiting grassroots supporters. Then he wouldn't need the DNC help or hinderence. He is a money raising machine.

[asuhornets]

31. But he did take the DNC help

Now it is time for him to stop bashing the Democratic Party, that makes no sense, he is a Democrat now. Who does that?

[floriduck]

81. The help he needed most was not there at the beginning. 6 poorly timed debates.

The only reason the debates increased is due to Hillary agreeing to do more after the fact. So the DNC did little to nothing in helping him. I understand why but it still hurt him.

[asuhornets]

85. He raised over $160 million, where he hurt at?...eom

[floriduck]

87. That money came from individual donations, certainly not from the DNC. Read above.

[KPN]

30. Dumb question. The answer's within it.

He said he would start a revolution ... and he has. And if you happened to see Jane Sanders' interview with Rachel last night, he intends to continue the revolution in a structured, organized fashion regardless of the outcome at the convention.

I know that this irritates you, but sorry. The revolution has only begun.

[asuhornets]

34. Dumb answer...Bernie and Jane continues to bash the Democratic party, that they recently joined.

After using all of its resources to launch his campaign.

[msongs]

37. so will he take that evil corporate DNC money to retire his campaign debt? stay tuned nt

[asuhornets]

39. Excellent question..

And I am sure he will.

[frylock]

53. Can't stand the heat?

[asuhornets]

88. Of course I can ...what heat?

[frylock]

90. I dunno nuthin'.

[asuhornets]

97. lol...n/t

[KPN]

100. Nah.

[Ed Suspicious]

38. I only worry that it will be difficult to find someone with the credibility

to carry it forward after Bernie decides to step aside as defacto leader of the movement.

[asuhornets]

40. Trust me

there will be another..

[runaway hero]

41. He's Idealistic

And believes in the positive parts of society to bring about solutions to the problems. Perhaps too idealistic.

[Eric J in MN]

43. In Indiana last night, Sanders criticized Trump

....the most harshly.

[asuhornets]

44. Good...eom

[Orsino]

46. He didn't start it. He's running hecause of it.

He didn't suddenly develop presidential ambitions last year. What progressives are finally calling for in huge numbers just finally started looking a lot like what Sanders has been doing for decades.

I wish he'd started running for the presidency earlier, but the hunger for progressive change that was merely notable on the trail in '08 is now winning actual delegates. Someone had to step up first, and I'm proud of Sanders' campaign so far.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

102. It would have been even more helpful

If Bernie and other Progressives had been working this hard to elect Progressives/Democrats in 2010 and 2014 and all thoughout Obama's Presidency.

[LanternWaste]

48. I think it's possible to not merely start a revolution in ten months, but in fact, win it.

I think it's possible to not merely start a revolution in ten months, but in fact, fight and win that same revolution in ten months and replace the status quo with an entirely new form of government (e.g., Czechoslovakia, 1989; Haiti, 1791; Iran 1978-79).

However, I think the term 'revolution', as it applies to the here and now, is simply not accurate according to the classical definition. We're simply seeing a variance of the status-quo rather than a rejection of it. Should Sanders win, and should Sanders see the majority of his policies in place, it would still be much smaller change in both scale and scope than the annulment of the French Fourth Republic in 1958-- itself, not a revolution.

That said, had Sanders come out of the starting gate with better command, control and communication of his ground support, and immediately started to prevent/deny his message from being co-opted with a ground-up spin, his appeal to the necessary moderates would have been much greater than is current. An example is the Root and Branch Bill in the English Revolution which abolished the episcopacy, angering conservatives and established institutions without earning the loyalty of radicals doing the grunt work.

On edit: The Anatomy of Revolution by Crane Brinton and Rise and Fall of the Great Powers by Paul Kennedy are wonderfully prescient and insightful works as to how and more importantly, why revolutions succeed or fail.

[oldandhappy]

49. He has been building for 32 years.

[asuhornets]

52. BUilding it where though--Vermont?

It wasn't nationally.

[Cal33]

63. Building up his reputation as a politician of honesty and integrity. Just look up his

records -- from the time he was Mayor of Burlington, VT, some 35 years ago.
This man's soul has never been for sale. He has always been fighting for the
average Joe and Jane.

[asuhornets]

89. Maybe in Vermont...eom

[Unicorn]

58. Sounds like you would be supporting the candidate of NOPE. And I take it you don't think we NEED a

revolution? Bernie is still winning states with his ideas. Wow, how did that happen. Maybe because the liberals caught on.

Sans massive media blackout and massive voter suppression, I think we wouldn't be dealing with your bought out corporate war hawk.

[asuhornets]

62. We do need a revolution...

So everything Sanders has promised--you really believe he could do those things in four years---if elected.

[silvershadow]

61. because he did? nt

[asuhornets]

68. Where is it?

[silvershadow]

69. Hidden by the MSM's Wall-to-Wall Trump-fest. nt

[0rganism]

65. 10 years from now we'll all be asking "how he did it" instead of "why he believed"

what remains unacknowledged by many on this board, including some very upset Sanders supporters, is that Bernie has actually succeeded -- not so much in "starting a revolution" as in continuing an existing one, rekindling it and keeping it nice and warm for the next generation to pick up where he leaves off. he's had a radical influence on the nature of the primary debates. once the convention rolls around, Bernie's revolution is going to have even more influence when it comes time to draw up the party platform.

his devotion to economic justice will provide a much needed counterbalance to the incoming influence of ex-GOP power brokers fleeing the sinking ship of Trump candidacy. long term, if he's prepared us well, the Democratic party will become a bastion of compassionate demand-side economics, rather than a corrupted den of neoliberal ratfuckery that the ex-Republican fatcats would desire.

[snowy owl]

71. He did start one. "Start" - key word. What else?

[asuhornets]

75. That's it...

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. You're confusing "start" with "complete". The political revolution is definitely begun. n/t

[grasswire]

77. Did you miss OWS?

All of a piece.

[asuhornets]

78. Didn't miss it at all...

It was here in Atlanta, too.

[HooptieWagon]

80. He had many people asking him to run.

He was holding off to see if Warren was going to run. If she had declared her candidacy, Sanders most likely would have supported her than run himself. He came a long way in 10 short months.

[nolawarlock]

93. And he's still losing. nt

[HooptieWagon]

95. Millions are listening to his message.

His poll numbers have gone from 5% 10 months ago, to nearly 50%...Clintons have gone down. Further, although trailing, he'll go into the convention with about 1500 delegates, which is still a pretty powerfull influence on party platform, rules, etc. He can quickly restart his campaign and raise money if the nominee is indicted during the GE. And his movement includes most of the young voters needed for future growth, whereas a Clinton loss in the GE marks the end of the Third Way.

[nolawarlock]

96. As so many Bernie fans have pointed out ...

The platform is as much a formality as it is anything else. Who is ever going to be able to hold her feet to the fire if she doesn't honor every plank?

She'll win in November.

[nolawarlock]

101. I am perfectly fine if his issues influence the party.

I would rather have some of his positions than him because even if Hillary adopts certain positions, like the $15 minimum wage, I am sure she will execute something like that far more responsibly, and with consideration for small businesses owned by people who pulled themselves up out of poverty, than Bernie ever will.

I do not believe Hillary will lose to Trump. I think people will see in the end what a joke he is. Yes, the right will go for him, but I also think that the independents who consider him during the general will lose so many friends, especially in social media, that that will influence their vote. I have personally swayed several Trump supporting friends of mine based on the fact that he would end my marriage and legislate against gay people in general and how could they be at my wedding and support a person like that. I can't say what they'll do in the voting booth but they've certainly stopped supporting him publicly. I think once we hit the general election, you're going to see that play out over and over. The right wingers won't budge but those middle-of-the-roaders will bow to peer pressure.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. It has taken years to have a Socialist run and threaten the status quo.

The "revolution" has always been here, Bernie just provided another voice. And, it's being listened to by millions.

[asuhornets]

83. "And, it's being listened to by millions."

I agree with that.

[anotherproletariat]

91. The whole thing says volumes about his true objectives.

Clearly he saw his useful years dwindling and wanted to work on his legacy. Unfortunately, it clearly backfired.

[artislife]

92. He didn't start it, he joined it.

[B Calm]

99. How many years did it take for conservatives to take over the Democratic Party?

[HooptieWagon]

103. 1932-1992.

Conservative democrats fought the liberals until 1992 when Clintons nomination gave them control over the party. Since then they have solidified their hold by shutting out liberals from policy and platform making, although continuing to demand liberal votes.

[libdem4life]

104. The journey of 10,000 miles begins with one step. Any other questions?

To get to the store, you have to start the car.

This is Really Reaching Way Out There. But not to worry, it's moving right along for those who want to see it. For those who don't, enjoy your life.