In the name of unity, can we agree that history will look kindly on the Obama Presidency?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

I think Sanders and Hillary supporters can agree on this, right?

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. I think Obama will be rated one of the better Presidents in our history.

[Baobab]

17. Its hard to say now- I think that many of the things about Clinton years have been slow to emerge

and we're only realizing now how potentially destructive they may become to our way of life...

For example, read the bttom of page 7 here in the context of the fight to $15 which it directly conflicts with.. can you figure out why? Things like that.

See at the bottom of Page 7 of this document, there is a discussion of "privileged groups" in developed countries and "rent seeking behavior" - Page 7 and 8 are particularly relevant-

http://www.ictsd.org/downloads/2008/06/dom_reg.pdf


.
Its likely that because of the timing, coming as it is just as Tisa is finishing up, and the Nairobi (WTO) Ministerial having collapsed without any progress on Mode Four and international trade in services in the cntext of economic integraton (of the poor economies into the rest of the world, which is to be done by giving them access to services markets in developing countries, if they can bid below what local providers charge-

The Nairobi talks collapsed recently without any concessions on DoHA Development Agenda, it all is saying to them that this is all about them, and cheating them of the jobs they have been promised- developing country workers and firms, would see a sudden increase to "high wages" here as having been intentionally established for the main reason of keeping them out of the payoff which they have been promised for 20 years.

their main "compatitive advantage" being specifically, low wages, high skill relative to low wages.

Does ANYBODY here get what i am saying, this is a huge thing.

yes, Obama likely will have been a really good president for Africans-

Its hard to tell at this point what will come of this. in 20 years, we might know.

I have mixed feelings about it myself. jobs are going away, for good and only a few more decdes relain of the jobs as we have known them, after that machines will do all those jobs- should we share those 20 or 30 years with others- who are likely to ask for much lower wages?

[Agnosticsherbet]

23. I aboslutly disagree with our premise. "A good president for Africans."

What a remarkably ugly statement.

[Baobab]

29. No, its accurate, because of GATS. They will get access to the services market in the US on a level

playing field, if they can tender the lowest bids- If you examine the trade agreements- you will find that LDCs , least developed countries are allowed special privileges- Thats how they work. For example, minimum wages may not be alowed here, but they may be allowed in LDCs- Same thing with price controls-

They will replace affirmative action. So, instead of having "discriminatory" rules that favor people from disadvantaged races, we will have rules that favor disadvantaged corporations.

let me give you some references:

Policy Paper on Trade in Services and Sustainable Development: Domestic Regulation
Prepared by Luis Abugattas Majluf, UNCTAD
Draft – Not to be Quoted

http://www.ictsd.org/downloads/2008/06/dom_reg.pdf

http://www.ictsd.org/downloads/2008/06/gallagher.pdf

http://www.cuts-geneva.org/pacteac/images/Documents/EAC%20Forum/Forum22/EAC%20Geneva%20Forum-%20WTO%20Note%2022.pdf

http://www.cuts-geneva.org/pacteac/images/Documents/EAC%20Forum/Forum17/EAC%20Geneva%20Forum-%20WTO%20Note%2017.pdf

Personally, I would rather see the kind of affirmative action- and carve outs we have now, which benefits Americans- (which will definitely have to end under the new regime because they are framed as discriminatory and rent seeking behavior by WTO- see bottom of page 7 of the first URL-

Thats why i am posting this stuff here- people should realize that certain people - especially politicians are only nice when they want something from you.

Or when they have some really nasty trick up their sleeve. 25 years ago when this deal started, the economy was in much better shape, and there was a labor shortage in some fields- now there really isnt but they persist in claiming there is, why? its not for their good looks, its because thats a crisis that they created - fabricated which they want to use these deals to solve, with the side effects being losses to struggling US workers.

The losers of the globalization game by all accounts.

[Agnosticsherbet]

30. You didn't make it better.

[Baobab]

31. I dont understand what you mean.

The fact is, we're looting those countries of natural resources. Those countries are insanely corrupt. So is ours.

So, the solution is not to give our peoples jobs- on the other side of the world, to them. Its to stop promoting copus and let them clean up their corruption.

These deals are deals between the very worst kinds of crooks to help one another loot their respective nations, carved in stone, forever, to continue being crooks.

Example, read this:

http://www.italaw.com/sites/default/files/case-documents/italaw3207.pdf Slovak people vote for single payer, get sued because they had signed a trade deal locking them in forever.

Then read this:

Insurer Achmea paid Bill Clinton $600,000 to make a speech - DutchNews.nl

[JonLeibowitz]

2. Those interested in unity don't post that Bernie is "second slops" for progressives.

Seriously, you said that. Today. Own it.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

3. I personally apologized to you. What more do you want? Nt

[JonLeibowitz]

4. You didn't apologize for that remark, not explicitly. Do you retract it?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

7. I deleted the thread didn't I? nt

[JonLeibowitz]

9. That's not an answer to the question.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

12. You just don't like the answer I gave you. nt

[pkdu]

6. Sackcloth and ashes , with daily floggings in the public square. It's the new thing apoarently. Nt

[JonLeibowitz]

10. Well for one it's not true that they apologized for saying that. So that comes before sackcloth

[Duckhunter935]

24. Wow

But really not surprised

[JonLeibowitz]

25. ----->

[Thinkingabout]

5. Whether he ever gets credit for achievements made in his administration

It is sad he isn't given the credit he deserves.

[sadoldgirl]

8. For this to agree with you, depends

on whether he will push the TPP down our
throats. I will wait with my judgement.

[yourpaljoey]

11. Yes, it has been a great 8 years for Republicans

[grasswire]

13. Depends on how he handles the FBI investigation of his SoS.

Really.

The risk is there right now -- RIGHT NOW -- for him to be in very hot water. Republicans are even talking of impeaching HIM on fast track if the FBI sends a criminal referral and Lynch does not act on it.

A Saturday Night Massacre-like event would erase his mostly satisfactory legacy with his base -- the ones who overlook TPP.

[Armstead]

14. Probably

[Warren DeMontague]

15. I think he will be remembered by history well.

I would argue he's been the best President of my lifetime.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. I also believe he stood up to the DC drug warriors who wanted him to try to shut down CO and WA

in 2012 when they voted to legalize recreational marijuana. He deserves props for that.

I do not have a whole ton of faith that Hillary would have done the same, but lucky for the nation, it's too late for that now.

[riderinthestorm]

18. I don't know. It depends on how fast climate change accelerates

If things get as bad as scientists predict within 5 years, his decision to put climate change on the back burner for so many years will ensure his legacy goes down in flames.

Jimmy Carter looks like a fucking genius now and history will only reinforce his stature.

He saw the climate change handwriting on the wall decades ago. So did Al Gore. They've become true environmental icons now.

[dchill]

19. +1

[tokenlib]

20. Depends...If he signs TPP after the election? ..

Honestly it takes 20 to 40 years usually before you can get a good look at the after effects of some policies.

[sofa king]

21. He's been wonderful.

The nuts-and-bolts of President Obama's political acumen will be studied by scholars for the next 200 years.

Getting tax cuts for the rich to expire, then luring Republicans into holding the government hostage to bring the tax cuts back, then using that to force the GOP to agree to cut a trillion dollars out of the defense budget was the most brilliant political maneuvering I have ever seen.

His ability to focus the hatred of his enemies back upon themselves is legendary and will surely form part of the American mythos from now on.

And he did it all while being personally above reproach, picking competent and scandal-avoidant underlings, and rarely if ever losing his composure in public. He is the model President of the modern age, and we are unlikely to get so lucky twice in my lifetime.

I wish he weren't such a moderate, though. But I can accept his centrism in exchange for his unflappable competence. He was the President we needed at the exact time that we needed it.

[fun n serious]

22. I agree. I want us to be better on climate change.

I think it should be #1 priority even before big banks

[ucrdem]

26. Yes and now that the wind is changing maybe Bill's too.

He really hasn't gotten credit he deserves for the job he did in his early years especially, Hillary either.

Following massive peaceful public pro-Aristide demonstrations by Haitian expats (estimated over 250,000 people at a demonstration in New York City) urging Bill Clinton to deliver on his election promise to return Aristide to Haiti, US and international pressure (including United Nations Security Council Resolution 940 on 31 July 1994), persuaded the military regime to back down and US troops were deployed in the country by president Bill Clinton. On 15 October 1994, the Clinton administration returned Aristide to Haiti to complete his term in office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide

[DerekG]

27. No. He'll be a mere Herbert Hoover.

His solution to the great moral crises of our era--economic inequality, the Terror War, Climate Change--have been the application of band-aids.

When we get hit with yet another economic cataclysm, his failure will be glaring.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Don't be coy, Hillary supporters are trying for a giant do-over, an eight year rewind to what

they think was a great injustice, the election of Obama at the expense of Hillary's victory. They are out to undo that election.
It's pretty obvious.

[aikoaiko]

32. Yes. I can agree to that. Moreover, I think he will be the best ex-pres we've ever seen

He may be way more effective after the Whitehouse.

He's young, smarter than ever, and nothing will restrain him from being the person he wants to be.