2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumyourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)He has no chance. Trump will destroy that zero weight.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)to seal the nomination. Someone needs to get to 2383 without the Superdelegates. If Hillary is forced to drop out because the FBI recommends indictment, she will not hand over her pledged delegates (or release them) to Bernie. That's just not going to happen.
Some of her pledged delegates could defect to Bernie. However, those delegates will be very loyal to her and would most likely do what she asked. They'd be very unlikely to go to Bernie, if she didn't direct them that way.
Biden is being floated as her replacement and I buy that. One only has to listen to Biden's remarks of late. He's been praising Bernie and also getting some digs in on Clinton.
The only way to unify the party would be to put in Joe--and have Joe pick Bernie has his running mate.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)She just might be able to pull it back together again.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I think the Establishment will be in control of who is offered up. I don't see it being Warren.
I see it being Biden, with Bernie as VP.
I will say this. I think the Establishment has gotten off track but I think Clinton is in a class by herself. I also believe that the Establishment sees this. And it's one reason why she's not being allowed to take the Presidency. I think she fucked herself with her private server. I also think she fucked herself on Libya, by giving Obama reason 1, 2 and 3 for toppling Gaddafi--when she was plotting the whole thing on her private server with Blumehthal for her real reasons 4, 5 and 6. Mostly business gains.
I think her hubris, her audacity and her corruption finally got the best of her and bit her in the ass.
They've also watched this sham of an election play out, from state to state--with more cheating, voter suppression, dirty tricks, etc. in the history of elections.
Joe Scarborough left my state of Iowa, the night of the Iowa caucuses and said that reporter after reporter came up to him and said, "You know Bernie won."
It's been a complete farce. So over the top it's beyond words.
Skink
(10,122 posts)For many reasons. Blumenthal number one. He was canned outright. Going behind the back not good either.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)Biden voted on the same Iraq war authorization that Hillary gets so much heat for.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Biden has criticized Hillary Clinton's overzealous, interventionism. He once said to Obama, "Hillary thinks she's Golda Meir!"
On a neocon scale of 1-10--Hillary is an 11. Biden is probably a 3. He wouldn't do "stupid shit" like Clinton does.
And Biden is an honest guy. He's not perfect. But he's not her. He wouldn't cheat in elections. He doesn't make a sport out of lying. He's not a total sociopath.
Skink
(10,122 posts)I know Hillary has baggage but.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)She's horrendously corrupt. She's a liar. About 30 percent of the country trusts her. That's for good reason.
I'm done talking about her. She makes me sick.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)HRC is not to be trusted, except where she says she wants to obliterate Iran.
msongs
(67,441 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Do I have to produce a fucking Powerpoint that lays it all out?
I really don't care what you think I should produce.
LoverOfLiberty
(1,438 posts)Really? This is so over the top it lacks credibility.
Get a grip
WhiteTara
(29,722 posts)but he has other skeletons in his closet.
The Democratic nominee should be the one the Democrats chose by an overwhelming majority.
I would vote for only Hillary or Bernie.
agracie
(950 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)If the FBI recommends indictment--and it is highly likely at this point--that will mean staggering, unprecedented consequences for this election and for the Democratic party.
It will be like dropping a bomb on our party.
This has been a 10-month FBI investigation into Clinton's private email server. There are so many tentacles to this thing. What she did, by using an unsecure server (that even Obama didn't know about!) is unprecedented. The IG has all ready determined that 2,000 of her emails (the ones that she turned in) were considered classified, and 22 of them were determined to be "Top Secret" which means that disclosing the information to the public could "put the country in grave danger."
We have no clue what the complete situation is on the 30,000 emails that she deleted. Can you imagine?
We do know that she didn't turn over all of her work-related emails--like she claimed she did. The FBI told her to hand over her server. She deleted 30,000 emails that she said were personal. We know that she didn't hand over many emails between herself and Sid Blumenthal. These emails were about Libya and Libyan security. Some of those emails were redacted in part or whole--so they do contain sensitive information. Those two weren't talking about yoga classes!
Here is a screenshot of Blumenthal's inbox. If you compare the State Department release of Clinton's emails, the red-starred email is missing. Clinton failed to turn over that email.
?w=700
Many other legal questions as well. Clinton was supposed to set up and use a .gov email address because of Freedom of Information Act Laws. All .gov emails are backed up/copied to stay in compliance with FOIA and also the Federal Records Act. By using a private server, Clinton circumvented those laws. She decided what could be seen and not seen.
This whole thing could be incredibly far reaching and very serious. It will be a massive crisis for our party--just months before a Presidential election.
There will be major movements made within the Democratic party to heal the wound and repair the damage.
This is why--regardless of who you support--GOOD DEMOCRATS must get informed on Clinton's email server and the investigation surrounding it. Ignore the complete morons who try to position this as a right-wing attack. This is a goddamn four-alarm crisis in our own party. This could upend a Presidential election and our entire Democratic party. Research about this and do your due diligence. Standing around in the dark, allowing people to lead you around by the nose--during a crisis, isn't the smart choice.
I think people grossly underestimate what could potentially do down here. I'm not saying that you are doing that, per se. However, many people seem to be bullying people into shutting up about this subject--and that is very wrong.
It is the opposite of what Democrats should be doing.
metroins
(2,550 posts)She didn't knowingly and wilfully hand over classified information to unauthorized sources to the detriment of the USA. At its worst, she did 1/10th of Petraeus.
Me, myself, doesn't care about this.
Just like I don't care when politicians have affairs, spouses of senators cost colleges Millions or any other of the useless information.
Precedent shows that at worst it's going to be a light issue. I've had my run in with the law, a lot of people have.
12 million voters #StandWithHer
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)of hers, you can bet the FBI cares.
It really doesn't matter or not if YOU care.
metroins
(2,550 posts)Because she's not going to have a serious indictment and I vote.
Voters choose Hillary.
WheelWalker
(8,956 posts)That seems unlikely at present, but this is a very anomalous cycle. Joe is a soldier for the middle class and the Democratic party. He would have my support.
annavictorious
(934 posts)And there's that awkward Anita Hill debacle that Joe engineered to insure Clarence Thomas's Supreme Court seat. That episode has done untold damage to the country.
Then again, some people who are generally doctrinaire might not mind because men like Biden deserve a pass, kinda like Sanders and the gun thing.
It would be fun to see what the Onion would do with a Biden presidency.
http://www.theonion.com/search?q=%22joe-biden%22
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)"If it comes to that" = Hillary has to drop out.
Establishment puts Biden in because they see Bernie unacceptable?
Fuck that, and Fuck them.
Skink
(10,122 posts)I am all in with Bernie. In this scenario I'd roll with the punches. If Hillary gets the nom however I will reevaluate my party affiliation.
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)I like Biden, but that is some serious baloney if they did something like that and THAT is something I will not be supporting.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but he certainly wouldn't be the worst choice.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Biden also voted for the bankruptcy bill as well.
He does a great "aw shucks" act but Joe's no Bernie.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)There would be an absolute riot in Philadelphia. Worked real well for us last time. And if out of 2600 or so delegates,
Bernie didn't get the number he needed to get to 2383 I would say the riot was warranted.
And That same liberal Senator ranking that gets trotted out (Bernie 1, Hillary 11), Biden was 33.
Passed before. Pass now.
Skink
(10,122 posts)Pretty easy to just let the rubber stamp congress take care of it.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Even taking the "Paul Ryan" route to completely discard the primary voter's role in selecting a nominee. This dispels the notion that Sanders and his supporters are in any way, shape or form, "progressive".
Great response to the OP.
Incidentally, I would love to see a woman President. Long overdue. Just not this one.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)He'd be a ginormous improvement over Clinton but he doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to SCOTUS.
onecaliberal
(32,894 posts)The most honest man on the planet is running. What the fuck.
snot
(10,538 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)As if a Clinton Admin would be much different than the Obama Admin has been or a Biden Admin would be.