I will dare to ask the following question:

[Chasstev365]

If a man had the voting record of Hillary Clinton, gave millions of dollars worth of speeches to Wall Street Bankers, and used the DNC to vastly favor his campaign, how many of you would be enthusiastic supporters?

[hrmjustin]

1. If I liked the person yes. Silly question.

[Betty Karlson]

2. Uhm.. 9/11 and a gender?

And complacent millennials who are hell-bound sluts for lusting for Berniebros. Who are basement-dwelling keyboard-warring and Internet-poll-clicking racists and sexists. Did I mention she has ovaries? Also math. And anyway:

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP - be very afraid.

[Chasstev365]

22. Wow, I must have touched a nerve

Agreed about Trump, but you were a little over the top, don't ya think?

[Hoyt]

3. If that were true, and they did no other good, I'd still vote for them over Trump.

[uponit7771]

5. +1

[bluedye33139]

53. Business community

The Democratic Party in order to be a central and strong party must maintain ties with the business Community. I have no problems with Democrats who work for jobs, a strong economy, and prosperity.

[uponit7771]

4. I would, I don't disparage people for LEGALLY making money and giving it to a foundation

... and being a progressive.

Its so sad that the privileged on DU think they can define what progressive is

[Meteor Man]

33. Perfectly Legal

David KayJohnston explained that angle in 2004.

[link:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/113522.Perfectly_Legal|

[JackRiddler]

50. Sure, this country runs on legalized political corruption.

It's not defensible.

[Aerows]

57. Legal and ethical

that couldn't find each other with a road map and a GPS.

[Hortensis]

6. No pub likes DNC candidates, so TAKE IT TO THE PRIMARIES.

[griffi94]

7. I'll counter your question with another question.

If a woman had been in the seante for 20+ years with few if
any significant accomplishments and laid out
an agenda that was purely unrealistic and when asked how she hoped
to implement her agenda had no answers exept vague mutterings about
marches and political revolution.

And when asked how she would pay for her agenda if it were able to
get thru congress gave an answer using numbers based on wishful thinking.

How many do you think would be enthusiastic supporters.

[zalinda]

11. Except that you are wrong about the accomplishments

His nickname is the amendment king.


"Sanders began racking up legislative accomplishments in the House of Representatives, where a 2005 analysis of legislative data revealed that he had passed more amendments in the House than any other Member of Congress over a ten-year period. In 2005, Rolling Stone called him the “amendment king.”

But as Politifact notes: “In comparison, Hillary Clinton passed zero roll call amendments during her tenure as a senator from New York from 2001-09.”

Readers who have been subjected to Barney Frank’s unsubstantiated trash talk should note this, also from Politifact: “Out of 419 amendments Sanders sponsored over his 25 years in Congress, 90 passed, 21 of them by roll call votes.”


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/barney-vs-bernie-sanders_b_9624560.html

More info:

http://addictinginfo.org/2016/02/19/heres-a-long-list-of-bernie-sanders-accomplishments-with-citations/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1428616/-Bernie-Sanders-What-the-Hell-Have-You-Done-for-Us-Lately

Z

[griffi94]

12. Bernie is a backbencher

[zalinda]

13. No, Bernie gets things done

and he does it for the right reasons, not to gain publicity, but to do the job he was elected to do. That is what you want in a President.


Z

[griffi94]

14. I know he re-named a few post offices.

[zalinda]

17. Apparently you can't read

I posted 3 links that was too much trouble for you to go to.

Some of what he did while in the house:

Passed an amendment to “require offenders who are convicted of fraud and other white collar crime to give appropriate notice to victims and other persons in cases where there are multiple victims eligible to receive restitution.”

Passed an amendment that improved Postsecondary Education. It administered a competitive grant program to institutions of higher education seeking to reduce costs through the purchase of goods and services. This saved colleges and taxpayers both money.

He amended the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003, stopping the IRS from being able to use funds that “violate current pension age discrimination laws.”

He expanded free health care and won a $100 million increase in funding by using his amendment powers. This added community health centers that gave out a variety of free health care services.

Prevented child labor by passing an amendment to a general appropriations bill. This stated that the U.S. will not appropriate funds for the importation of goods made by the hands of minors.


Some of his work in the Senate:

Passed an amendment making sure that solar water heaters provide at least 30 percent of hot water for new federal buildings. This is forcing us to use green energy.

Made sure to it that bailout funds weren’t used to replace laid-off U.S. workers with exploited and poorly-paid foreign workers.

Helped ensure that child care was being offered to parents in the Armed Forces by requiring the Comptroller General to provide accurate reporting on what was being done.

Required a public database be made available showing the names of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors. This helped crack down on corruption.

Required that the TRICARE program provide treatment to veterans affected by certain types of autism. It wasn’t previously being done.

Was praised by John McCain(R-AZ) and Sen. Jack Reed(D-RI) for overhauling the Veterans Administration. Was said to have done such an excellent job of bringing all parties to a deal, that it wouldn’t have gotten done without Sanders’ work.

Z


PS: Hillary did get a post office and a highway named though.

[griffi94]

18. Yeah. I ignored them

[zalinda]

20. Of course you did.

Which is why you are a Hillary supporter. You can't seem to face facts. She's done very little to help the average American compared to what Bernie has done.

Z

[griffi94]

21. I ignored them precisely because I can face facts

Bernie isn't going to win.

I don't care what your links say.

He's going to lose and then go back to the senate.
I couldn't care any less what he does after he's back in the senate.

Hillary is our nominee.

[zalinda]

25. Which pretty much says all we need to know about you. eom

[griffi94]

27. All we really need to know

is that Hillary will be our nominee.

Bernie is irrelevant now with regard to the GE.

[pangaia]

28. My god ! And people with that attitude actually VOTE !!!

This is a perfect example of one of the problems with this country.
Ignorance of the facts.

[Cal33]

40. Hillary is winning in the Primaries with the unfair help and favoritism from the DNC since the

past year, and Bernie has also been deliberately ignored by the Main Stream Media so that
as little as possible would be known by the general public of who he is and what he stands
for. You are telling us that we should simply just stand by and accept as president anyone
who has been handed down to us through dirty and crooked means?

[griffi94]

44. Tough break for Bernie

doesn't change the outcome tho.

She's up by 300 delegates and 3 million votes.

[Loudestlib]

58. Ignorance is bliss.

You must be raptured.

[griffi94]

59. Hahaha yeah sure.

I'm not the one who thinks Bernie is going to
somehow magically come from being so far down that
he can't even see up and win the nominations lol.

Bernie's done.
But in real life he's been done since the south voted.
He got seriously wiped out to the point that he had no
hope of catching up without some dramatic upsets
in big delegate states.

States like NY PA MD all of which he lost big.

Bernies 15 minutes are winding down.

[Armstead]

36. If you ignore them then you shouldn't comment..... damn it

You don't want information. Fine

You disagree with the interpretation. Fine.

Don't want to bother to read enough to know what you're talking about?...Not fine.

[griffi94]

46. I'm not interested in what you're talking about

That's why I'm not talking about it.

What Bernie did or didn't do has been rendered
irrelevant.

He's not going to be the nominee.

Now on to taking care of Trump.

[Armstead]

48. Insert meme. Punch send button. Repeat.

[griffi94]

51. Bernie's done

It doesn't matter now what he would have done had he been the nominee.

He's not the nominee.

His senate positions no longer have any bearing
on the election in November.

The same can be said for all the candidates from both parties
who ran but didn't win.

Not relevant to anything happening now.

[Armstead]

52. Insert meme. Punch send button. Repeat.

[Eric J in MN]

54. I support Elizabeth Warren who hasn't gotten major bills

....passed as a Senator.

She hasn't been in Congress 20 years, but if she had been and with a voting record making her the most liberal US Senator, I'd be fine with that.

Senators are primarily there to vote. Very few can say they introduced major legislation which became law.

[bettyellen]

55. not if she didn't have steady work till the age of 40 and a baby outside marriage- nope.

she probably would never be elected senator.

[ebayfool]

65. Dayum, Bettyellen ... That leaves me out!

But then again, there's a large plurality in this country (in this day and age) that are unmarried with children. Thank Gawd that small minded stigma made it's way into the dustbin where it belonged! And a lot of those same single parents worked at many jobs to support those kids. I've personally worn many hats job wise, a career (steady work) is not in the cards for many people but that doesn't mean they don't work hard for the money. Nothing wrong with working as a Head Start teacher, psychiatric aide, and carpenter etc. Honorable jobs even if not a dedicated career path. And in the 60s, 70's ... it was perfectly acceptable to to this.

Hell, I drove cab at one point. Why? For the experience of it! I expect I will be collecting job experiences 'til the day I die. Can't afford to retire, so Imma gonna try to taste as much life as I can - and jobs are the open path for me to do it!

I remember when the similar reasons were used to say others could never make it in elected life. Catholic President? People would never stand for that. Until they did. A divorced President? Not in a million years! Until they did.





Now don't be handing me my ass! I haz Skinner supplied velcro to reattach it as needed!



How ya doing, mama - well I hope!

[bettyellen]

70. I love this post! But I still think an atheist has a better chance to be president than a single

woman with a kid, and yes- it is fucked up. Love your hopefulness and humor - you won't be needing that velcro.

[ebayfool]

71. At the end of the day, you are right about that.

I keep the velcro handy, since I do rub people the wrong way quite frequently. Some it don't matter, some it does. You are one that does. I can see you post your true heart and mind. There are those (on BOTH sides) that post from less genuine intent. Those opinions do not matter.

But. At least, as a single mom, I get to be president of my little corner of the world! Think Barbara Stanwyck! Without the perennial good figure. But better hair.

[bettyellen]

72. My daddy raised me in the mold of Ms Stanwyck! Ball of Fire is one of my favorites...

and of course, The Lady Eve. What a powerhouse she was!
Thanks for the kind words, they will not be forgotten.

[uponit7771]

66. +1, very fine point... the privileged get to have magic numbers and utterances

[Nye Bevan]

8. If some loophole allowed Bill Clinton to run again.....

I think he would be still quite popular. Definitely more so than Bernie Sanders.

[pangaia]

29. p o p u l a r i t y

YUP great reason to vote for someone...

Name recognition...

[CrowCityDem]

9. I still don't get it...

Why is it an issue that someone who was not in public service in any way at the time made money giving speeches? Everyone is entitled to make a living, and if they were offering huge sums of money for easy work, I don't blame anyone for taking it.

Shouldn't the issue really be that corporations and the like are shelling out enormous amounts of money that should technically belong to their shareholders, so that they can listen to a speech?

[zalinda]

15. She didn't need the money.

If she needed the money like before she ran for President the first time, I'm okay with that. It is the second go around after she was Secretary of State that I have problems with. She knew damn well she was going to run for President again and she didn't need the money, so the only other reason that she could have done it was for greed and power. Just how much money and/or power does one person need?

Z

[COLGATE4]

16. You have got to be kidding me. Do you really believe that you, in your

infinite wisdom should be the arbiter of how much a person makes and when they make it? It frankly sounds a little arrogant.

[zalinda]

19. Unlike her?

She isn't a newcomer to politics, she knows that appearance matters, whether it's truth or not. She was arrogant enough to think that she could do whatever she wanted and it wouldn't matter.

I don't know about you, but if I knew I was going to run for office, I would make damn sure that all my ducks were in a row and that there would not even be a HINT of scandal to be found. It is arrogant or stupid to think that even the appearance of wrong doing doesn't matter.

Yes, she has the RW after her, which is why I question her decision to give those speeches. It is not what I think, it is what the public thinks. There is a reason so many don't trust her, and this is just another reason. There is no RW spin about it. If she needed the money, people could understand her reasoning. But, when you already have 50 million, it is awfully hard to explain why you just HAD to give those speeches, unless you are greedy or power hungry. If she had no intentions of running for President, the point would be moot.

Z

[CrowCityDem]

23. Having ducks in a row... like having several years of taxes ready to be released?

[zalinda]

26. Bernie had no intention of running

until no one showed up to run against Hillary. There is a big difference between months of preparation and decades. And, yes, we all knew she was going to run even before Bill left the White House, and so did she, which is why she went to New York instead of Arkansas.

Z

[COLGATE4]

24. It's not what I think - it's what the public thinks.

No, it's what some segment of the public thinks (or says they think). After more than 20 years of unabated Hillary bashing and psuedo scandals, I'm sure that the younger members have no image of Hillary other than being the punching bag for every RW talking head wannabe. And once again, in the final analysis you are forced to come back to your personal belief that there is an "x" amount of money that is, in your estimation "OK to earn" but if you get "x+1" then you are guilty of some type of moral infraction. I make it a point not to judge people on what they do for a living nor how much they do or do not earn. It makes life a whole more pleasant. I suggest you try it.

[CrowCityDem]

30. Seems a lot of people don't see any difference...

between making a lot of money by doing something innocuous like giving speeches, and making a lot of money by stripping down businesses, firing people, and shipping jobs overseas. That's what Mitt Romney did. Trying to say that Hillary's actions are anywhere in the same ballpark just hows an irrational hatred for the rich.

[COLGATE4]

31. In a word - you're absolutely correct. They do like to dress it up,

however in moral oppobium, "It would have been OK if she had done "x" in order to get paid "Y" but, instead she did "Z!!!!!!!". Bad Hillary. Bad.

[grasswire]

67. oppobrium

you're welcome

[zalinda]

32. And, by your comment, I can see

you are speaking from a place where you are comfortable. From my viewpoint, and a lot of others, amassing a fortune while stepping on the backs of the working poor, is no longer acceptable. The 'Greed is good' mantra of the late 80's is no longer looked upon as something to aspire to.

As for the RW crap that Fox spews, yeah some of it is crap. Unfortunately, Hillary has a huge amount of other baggage following her around which she brought on herself. All you really have to do is watch videos of her speeches and where she stood on things, or what she did or did not do, like you know, the truth. Her decision making is flawed. And, most of the younger generation could give to flying fucks about what Fox News says about her, they do their own research. There is enough damning stuff out there that would convince any logical thinking person that she is a disaster waiting to happen. As soon as she is sworn in another Ken Starr will be stepping forward to start an investigation on ever little thing she has done and will do, and we will end up footing the bill. The cost of Bill's investigation was any where from 40 million to 80 million depending on the source, and that was 15 years ago. Hillary's investigation will probably cost close to a billion dollars, because she has made sure poor decisions.

I am constantly amazed at what the 'I got mine' people will say and do, so no one else can rise above their 'station'.

Z

[CrowCityDem]

39. No.

From my viewpoint, and a lot of others, amassing a fortune while stepping on the backs of the working poor, is no longer acceptable.

Except Hillary didn't do that at all. She gave some speeches, and was paid for them. Sure, the going rate is ridiculous, but that's what they're willing to pay. It's not Hillary's responsibility to take less money for the same job.

[COLGATE4]

41. As I said from the beginning, it's really just about your being pissed

because she made more money than you can. But it's easier to dress it up as a 'moral' issue - I particularly iiked the 'stepping on the backs of the working poor'. I'll bet that, in your fantasies Hillary even has an orphanage where deserving orphans are daily denied their scant ration of gruel. Don't try and bullshit me.

[zalinda]

56. Talk to the people of Haiti

She and Bill were all smiles with the publicity in helping those who were devastated by the storm, but those they purported to have helped are still living in tar paper shacks. What really happened is that the Clinton Foundation built a luxury hotel on the other side of the island away from the poor.

I don't care how much money someone makes, but be upfront about it. She didn't have to make those speeches, in fact she has an agent to get her those gigs, as do everyone else who makes the rounds. Tony Robbins is on the circuit and I'm sure he is right up there on the wealth scale, but he is not running for President. I could start naming all sorts of names of people who make a great deal of wealth, but who cares, it doesn't matter to you. You want to insult me, fine. But you will not change the facts, this woman who makes so much money thinks $15 an hour is too much money for the working poor, when $12 will do just fine. That, my dear is stepping on the backs of the working poor.

Z

[COLGATE4]

61. Talk to the people of Haiti? If you knew anything about that sad half-

island you would know that Jesus Christ resurrected wouldn't be able to make a dent in the absolute, abject poverty that has been characteristic since independence from France all those many years ago. And that was before a devastating earthquake which destroyed the little infrastructure that existed. All kinds of initiatives have been tried over the course of many years and they all seem to fail. Hillary's is not the first, and it won't be the last that meets that fate. Trying to hang this on her as being somehow specific to the Clintons is not only naive, it's dishonest.

I love the "I don't care how much money someone makes, so long as they're upfront about it". How has she not been 'up front' about it. The records of how much she was paid are so available that you can almost get them on your supermarket receipt. And now we move on the newest meme. It's not that she makes too much money - it's that she opposes a $15 minimum wage. I know it may come as a shock, but there are actually respectable economists who believe that establishing a $15 minimum wage without a series of preconditions as to implementation would be unwise at the present time. Once again, it's "if they don't agree with me, well obviously they're wrong". Not very persuasive.

[zalinda]

63. And building a luxury hotel helped the people of Haiti? eom

[COLGATE4]

68. If you don't understand how a project like a hotel can

bring a large amount of jobs to all the people it will hire, plus improving the area it's placed in and the overall benefit to the economy that lots of tourism dollars bring in I can't help you. I swear if Hillary cured cancer all by herself tomorrow the only thing I'd hear from some DU posters would be "she only did it so she'd be famous". Give it a break.

[zalinda]

69. They imported workers. Look it up. eom

[COLGATE4]

73. So? There is a lack of experienced construction workers in Haiti, particularly any

who are skilled in operating heavy equipment. But that's beside the point. The jobs to be created would be working at the new hotel, not building it.

[zalinda]

64. Stepping on the backs of the working poor

Tell me what she has done for the working poor. I see her do a lot for her wealthy friends, but not for any one else. Here in New York, she did nothing for us. She was a friend to wall street, and if you look at where she won the most votes, she wasn't all that popular in any where other than New York City.

And, actually having all her money would be a boon to those who need help. I don't want that much money, never have. I think owning an expensive car is a waste of money. I'd much rather drive a nice car, but not an expensive one. As for a house, I want a small house with a studio, that's it. I'd take care of my needs and then start figuring out ways to give the money away that would help the most people. I'd probably work with OWS to buy debt so people will stop losing their homes. You see, I don't need a lot of money, I think it's a immoral to pay $700 for a pair of shoes or $12,000 for a purse. But then I've never been much to put a lot of stock into what people wear, or what they look like.

The only reason I would wish for her money, is so I could give it away to help people. And, even now, with my having so little, I still give things away. There is always someone who has less than I do, and can use a helping hand.

When I see Hillary, I see that's it's all about Hillary. It's what she wants, and damn any one who gets in her way. She wants the Presidency, not because of what she can do with it, but because of the title.

Z

[Jennylynn]

37. Or it could be that she gave those speeches not so much for the money she doesn't

need but more so because she strongly supports and believes whole heartedly in, whatever the hell she spoke about.

[Meteor Man]

34. Political Graft Confuses You?

What could an honest politician possibly have to say that is worth nearly a quarter billion dollars?

[COLGATE4]

42. Do you fail to grasp the concept that it's not what she said that

was worth what she was paid - it's what it was worth to the company that hired her to have her there so all the execs can schmooz with her and let her know how much they support her. Companies do it and have done it from the day the first person put a hole in the middle of a shell and called in money. Maybe you don't like it but it's the way business runs. Companies need good will from people in power and they cultivate that relation well in advance.

[Meteor Man]

43. The Roman Empire Had Political Graft

So that makes it ok?

[COLGATE4]

47. Good relations =/= graft.

[Meteor Man]

49. This Is Simple

Good relations are not worth close to a quarter billion dollars in combined speaking fees.

Straight out corruption doesn't cost that much. Bill and Hillary Clinton are both corrupt Chamber of Commerce Cronies. Regularly bought and sold by Wall Street.

[COLGATE4]

62. If it's so simple, how about some actual "proof" of what you're alleging, i.e. that both

the Clintons are "regularly bought and sold by Wall Street". Shouldn't be too hard, seeing as it's so simple. Just a little real,actual proof. You know, something that you could take to court and prosecute.

[Armstead]

38. It's called lack of political judgement...at the very least

[cheapdate]

10. Easy one.

I'm 100% opposed to Republican politics. I will do anything and everything I can to weaken and deny them power. I'll do anything and everything I can to make sure that no Republican takes the White House in November.

I'll vigorously support and defend the Democratic candidate, whoever they might be, without any reservations whatsoever.

[onecaliberal]

35. My Husband is opposed to ALL corporate owns politicians regardless of their gender

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. She's a Republican, A woman and LGBT friendly one, but a Republican nonetheless. n/t

[CobaltBlue]

60. Also: Imagine if Bernie Sanders was the one being investigated by the FBI!