I have lost all faith in this country's ability to conduct elections fairly.

[reformist2]

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)

This primary season has opened my eyes.

First Iowa. Then Nevada. Then Arizona. Then the debacle in New York. And now the decertification of Maryland's results. There are too many states with too many types of voting "irregularities" to not see the larger picture, which is that election fraud is rampant in this country. Flipped voting-machine totals. Missing votes. Uncounted provisional ballots. Not enough polling places. Thousands of voters dropped from the voting rolls. Thousands of eligible voters told they couldn't vote. The list of infractions and flagrant violations of election laws is out of control. What it all boils down to is this, when the list of problems reaches a certain tipping point, you start to question the validity of not just one state's results, but the supposed winner of this whole process.

Is Hillary really winning this primary season? I have no faith anymore that she really is.

Edit: What I'm seeing in Nevada today saddens me, but no longer surprises me.

[bkkyosemite]

1. Oh there is more states that were stolen from Bernie Sanders then just those.

[brooklynite]

12. ...and Sanders hasn't complained about any of them...

[silvershadow]

19. Count on the real insider, as in inside-the-beltway, to chime in

with astute observations. What is your evidence?

[brooklynite]

22. Please correct me...

point to any formal challenge of any electoral outcome.

[Katashi_itto]

39. Ummm Yeah...Spoken like a true insider.

[brooklynite]

44. FActs are annoying, aren;'t they?

[Katashi_itto]

45. Obviously not to you. I am sure your paid well enough for arranging them

to suit the masters.

[Maru Kitteh]

61. And still you offer no rebuttal to the fact.

[Katashi_itto]

70. You haven't provided any to the op's statement.

[CorporatistNation]

68. So Annoying In Fact That You Completely Ignore "WHO" Hillary Clinton Is When All you have to do is

watch her on YOUTUBE and see just how flawed is her character and integrity...

[Chezboo]

67. Election Fraud is the third-rail of American politics.

No one will touch it, even those who have lost elections due to fraud. -Richard Charnin

[Ferd Berfel]

47. add Maryland now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141449986

[Purveyor]

2. Oh hell yes we need international observers to monitor our elections as

we so like to do with other countries.

[reformist2]

46. Yes. I'm mostly concerned with those last moments when they report the voting machine results.

I think most of the mischief occurs in those moments right before they submit their results. I'd also like to know the names and candidate preferences of all the people doing the counting.

[laserhaas]

3. Its all so frustrating...until Bernie beats her in California

Then...scha'Bang

[Thinkingabout]

4. Another CT excuse for a reason Sanders is not ahead, voter suppression by those not registered as

Democrats in Arizona causing long lines and the voters who were eligible to vote were met with long lines and probably some did not get to vote that day, shameful.

[JonLeibowitz]

11. The people not registered as Democrats were the VICTIMS of suppression, not the CAUSE

[jillan]

13. I don't understand how you cannot be concerned because the GE is just around the corner.

But whatever. Keep your head in the sand and hopefully we won't wake up to a President Trump while questioning what happened with all the purged Democrats.

[CoffeeCat]

51. If she cheated, then she is a horrendously weak candidate

I suspect that there was rampant cheating in nearly every state.

If that's the case, then think about how really weak a candidate that she is. She had to cheat to win, and most likely she is not winning.

How in the hell is she going to win against Trump??? More cheating? Knowing her, that's probably her plan.

She is a disgrace--all the way around--for so many reasons.

[apcalc]

17. And in Az it was HRC who got shafted most likely....

And she was the first to bring suit....Sanders joined later...

And many of her voters got the shaft in New York...

[silvershadow]

20. I call bull. nt

[northernsouthern]

31. Wow you are victim blaming?

I am sure you tune will change in the general election, just like Debbie and several other HRC pawns have now called for Arizona to fix their mistakes long after the primary has passed safely for them. Our party is pathetic anymore, we openly embrace people not voting...way to go!

[Thinkingabout]

34. No, I don't blame the victim, the victim is the registered Democrats who had long lines

Because of those who was not registered as Democrats wanted to vote and tied up the process.

[northernsouthern]

69. You know what victim blaming is right?

Hint: you are blaming the people not allowed to vote in a process they paid for with their taxes. For all the insults about wanting free stuff, this is an example where they actually are doing it.

[Thinkingabout]

71. This is a primary, do you know what a primary is?

[msongs]

5. well of course all the fraud is caused by hillary clinton do't ya know nt

[elleng]

6. So have I,

and my loss of 'faith' occurred some years ago, way before the states and incidents you mentioned.

[SusanCalvin]

27. Really. nt

[BootinUp]

7. Far from perfect, definitely needs reforms. I believe Jimmy Carter has good

suggestions.

[bobbobbins01]

8. I don't understand why Jimmy Carter isn't monitoring things.

I really have no faith in the election. Too many "mistakes". And the exit polls are way off...Clinton outperformed them by huge margins in over 20 states, which is a statistical impossibility.

[SusanCalvin]

29. Because we don't meet international standards for elections. It's an unfunny joke. nt

[jillan]

9. Just got done watching Redacted. Voters in CA are being purged too.

Whatever the outcome of this election will always have an asterisk next to it.
Just like 2000 and 2004 but this time it's happening during the primaries.

[trudyco]

16. Yep

As Jimmy Carter called it with the Oprah interview last year, it's an Oligarchy.
Didn't some researchers at Princeton or something statistically proved that the electorate no longer count?
But I really thought it was the Repukes. Never thought it was in my own party.

Maybe Brock never left the Republican party, he's just helping the Clintons meld the Dems into the Corporatist fold.

[TheDormouse]

60. here ya go

[link:https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf|

[dana_b]

73. Cali people can vote now! They should go to their local elections office

check their registration and vote before June 7th. If they do it before May 23rd, they can ensure that they are correctly registered.

[AgingAmerican]

10. The Democrats have been more corrupt than the Republicans this primary

What a Sad State of Affairs that is

[elleng]

32. Yes, things have surely changed, haven't they?

Or maybe we're just now learning about and facing facts, people are people.

[highprincipleswork]

14. We do need international observers, and a standardized system of verified counting.

[reformist2]

49. Probably the most important thing we could do is to stop the "as-fast-as-possible" vote reporting.

It's in that mad rush to get vote totals, that's where most of the fraud is occurring. Vote totals get flipped, submitted, and certified in a matter of hours. Then if and when there's an audit, election officials go "looks like we goofed, oopsie!", but they never order a recount. The fraud is preserved.

[apcalc]

15. This primary season?

You must have missed Bush/Gore.

You must have missed countless voter roll purges in states like Florida , Alabama, Kentucky, the Supreme Court cutting into the voting rights act.
Longer lines, fewer voting machines in poor/ black /people of color neighborhoods....

[reddread]

37. are you comparing the 2000 GE to the 2016 Democratic Primary?

It is valid, but there is a slight difference, right?

[Demsrule86]

18. Really?

Well, I lost faith in 2000 and 2004...and of course their plan was foiled in 2012...hence the meltdown by Rove. There are always errors in elections...but no one cared enough about Bernie to do anything to him...he simply lost.

[.99center]

24. The 182,000,000 that Clinton has spent fighting his liberal message is just chump change

It's nothing to her, she doesn't care.

[dreamnightwind]

21. K & R

It's an illusion of democracy until we get the corporate money out of politics, and until we get fully verifiable elections, plus end the massive disenfranchisement.

It's pretty weird to see all of these problems in the Democratic primary, but when you look at the forces lined up behind Hillary compared to those behind Bernie, it isn't surprising.

[reformist2]

59. The convention in Nevada today is shaping up to be another prime example of illusory Democracy.

Taking delegate counts 30 minuets before everyone is seated, a chair allowing motions to carry when the voices for nay were louder, it's sick.

[dreamnightwind]

63. Damn, sorry to hear that - eom

[TheDormouse]

66. "In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it"

We've seen this before.

otherwise known as a railroad.

[Time for change]

23. Agree

I doubt very much she could beat Bernie in a fair election.

And furthermore, why don't independents get to vote in so many of the primaries? Why should they have no say whatsoever in choosing the only two viable choices for the presidency? What kind of democracy is that? There should be a Constitutional amendment against closed primaries and against the use of electronic voting machines that have no useful oversight against fraud.

[SusanCalvin]

30. "I doubt very much she could beat Bernie in a fair election. "

Yep.

[eridani]

33. Has been going on since Andy Stephenson

Not sure why Dems blow the problem off, as it hurst ust the most in general elections.

[randome]

35. There are problems in every election and in practically every precinct. Where have you been?

There will always BE problems. The best we can do is to minimize them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[colsohlibgal]

36. Our Myriad Voting Procedures Are Ripe For Corruption

It is mind boggling that there has not been an uprising for change.....but we cannot reach a critical mass of people who can force a real look at all this.

Ah the dumbing down is in full bloom here, more people fret over the Kardashians than our crooked election system.

[JoePhilly]

38. Hillary is winning by large margins. Just a fact.

[reformist2]

40. More like fiction. Just because numbers appear on CNN and are made "official" doesn't make them true

[JoePhilly]

41. Right ... 3 million people don't exist.

Bernie is losing.

The rules were known going in.

[reformist2]

42. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. I haven't seen any real-world evidence of such support.

If and when Hillary can summon a rally with more than 10,000 people, maybe I'll think about changing my mind.

For now, I maintain that the numbers in the democratic primaries this year are mostly false.

[JoePhilly]

43. Ok.

[summerschild]

56. BINGO!

There's no logical way to reconcile the huge numbers who attend and support Bernie at his rallies and the discrepancies in the numbers voting for Hillary.

We have all watched the media ignore crowds and events for Bernie - I think we've all come to expect that.

But now there's a ton of recent articles reporting fake twitter followers and we know the money David Brock has poured into fake and purchased social media opposition. I think Hillary has really hurt herself with her alliance with him. I know she had to feel like she had no one to stick up for her and I guess he did (read his book Blinded by the Right) but that didn't change him into a nice guy. He's a snake from the same family as Karl Rove.

I'm so disappointed in Democrats if they are engaged in voter fraud!

[reformist2]

74. It's not that big a leap for these guys to go from fake twitter followers, to fake voters.

It's just the touch of a button, really. Or simply fudging the numbers when you submit the results. Only takes a second. And nobody checks. And even when they do audit, the results are already certified and nothing changes. Oopsie! We goofed, they say. We'll be more accurate next time.

[JoePhilly]

55. + 1

[Number23]

62. At this point, the laughably stupid and stubborn contention that because Hillary is not holding

huge rallies, all of her support must be "stolen" is probably the dumbest thing out of this entire primary season.

Hillary won NY in the counties were Sanders' ever so huge rallies took place but according his believers, her support isn't real because she is not holding massive rallies. Even when shown how massive other people's rallies were who went on to lose and lose BIG these people still scream about all of the yard signs and rallies and how that means that Sanders is winning.

Barney Frank's "dining room table" comment sure comes into play at at time like this.

[Chezboo]

65. 3 million people, blah blah blah

The claim that Hillary is winning the popular vote is one of the most deceptive, specious claims the Hillary Clinton campaign and her surrogates are making. The mainstream media is echoing and giving a total pass on this egregiously dishonest claim.

This is very important for several reasons.

1- Superdelegates are arguing that they are, by supporting Hillary, representing the majority of voters. The truth is that this not true.

2- The mainstream media repeat the "Hillary is winning the popular vote" mantra, or allow Hillary and her surrogates to make the specious claim many many times every day.

Actually, the claim is an affront to the truth, based on the numbers.


More:

Debunking Hillary's Specious Winning the Popular Vote Claim

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Hillary-and-Her-Surrogates-by-Rob-Kall-Hillary-Clinton_Popular-Vote_Surrogates-160511-219.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. "Winning" n/t

[EndElectoral]

48. K&R- It's conspiracy theory in the Dem primary, but when the GOP wins somehow it's not here.

[Arugula Latte]

50. I knew we had to worry about Republicans stealing elections, but now

we have to worry about intra-party tampering. Very depressing.

[Nyan]

52. If these things happened in other countries, we would have bombed them long time ago

to teach them a lesson about democracy.

[bvar22]

57. Borrrowed from Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens dissent after Bush v Gore, 2000

Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Democratic Primary election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Democratic Party members confidence in the DNC as an impartial guardian of our Primary Elections.

[B Calm]

58. Before the first vote was cast in Iowa, Hillary had a 500 super delegate lead. This is all

a sham!

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

72. Exactly! And Illinois, and we still don't know what disaster California has in store for us

There's sooooo much wrong with the process

1. Half the Democrats DON'T want everyone to vote; the media supports that half. They've been asking for Bernie to concede for months.
2. Closed vs Open primaries with disaffected or new voters registering as non-affiliated and not realizing they're excluded from the process.
3. Caucuses are absurd and severely restrict turnout.
4. Poor Hillary is running out of money she needs for the GE and that's Bernie's fault, not the idiotic system the Democratic Party put in place. Democrats would be wise to kick Iowa, NH, and tradition to the curb in 2020 or 2024, and hold the primary elections on a single day, just like the GE.

Good on Bernie for blowing this fucker up!

Great thread, reformist