Listening.

[LWolf]

I do a lot of it, out in the real world.

Now...I have a colleague who is a friend. She's a Republican. It's been a long time since she voted in a general election for a Republican; she's been appalled by her party's defection from what she considers the fundamentals that attracted her to begin with. She has talked with me about this frequently. She has remained a Republican because she wants to oppose those she thinks has destroyed the Republican party. She likes both Clinton and Sanders. She voted for Obama twice. Her college-age kids are Democrats voting for Sanders.

I have another colleague who is a Democrat. To be honest, he's an annoying Democrat. He tends to go on long rants, to take over every discussion, and to never allow anyone else to speak. I quit trying to have conversations with him years ago, knowing he would never allow me to fully engage.

He was ranting to my other R colleague last week. I was listening. He was going on and on and on and on about Clinton vs Sanders, about how he doesn't want everything to be "free" for everybody, about how people who get unemployment benefits should have to perform community service...he sounded, frankly, like a Republican.

While the actual Republican listened, turned a bit red, and then told him that there are already plenty of hoops for people to jump through to collect unemployment; people who actually paid into the system through payroll taxes while they were working. That unemployment benefits were not "free stuff."

Then HE turned red, muttered something in concession, and I stepped in and changed the subject to the actual work we were supposed to be doing.

I keep listening, and more and more Democrats sound more Republican than so many actual Republicans. Dark foreshadowing, in my opinion.

Am I alone in noticing this?

[Punkingal]

1. No, I have noticed it. too.

One or two in my own family. It's disgusting.

[Jitter65]

2. many others feel that way. People who have worked hard for a decent living are angry about the rich

getting away with not paying their fair share BUT they are equally angry about the thought of folks getting for free what they had to work for. I know, I know... but this is how it sounds to them and this is how they are thinking. That is the key reason that Sander's massive events do not turn into massive votes. It is a gross miscalculation to believe that the majority of voters...Dem or GOP feel exactly the same as the millennials out there holding Sanders in adulation because of his promises. It is not what most Americans feel in their guts...whether it makes sense or not. When you speak of Social Security and Medicare it registers as EARNED benefits...something that cost them something. They "paid" for it. "you can't get something for nothing" It is inbred in the psyche of folks who have struggled all their lives to support themselves and their families. Sure they hate that the uber wealthy get away with paying little or no taxes...but they accept it because they feel they "worked for it" (no matter by fraud or stealing).
You just have to face up to it...fair or not. But Bernie's message is registering very well with the young and the sophisticated liberal voter. It just doesn't register with the rest of the voters and his screaming and pointing his fingers at them doesn't help. (that is how it comes across on TV).

With Hillary, we could get closer to his vision, but his continued trashing of her will probably deny us even that.

[Vote2016]

3. 2016 is when the liberal=Democrat vs. reactionary=Republican ends, and elite/establishment=Democrat

vs. populist/reform=Republican begins.

As we sit here, we are being redefined.

Hillary is the new face of the elitist, establishment, status quo party, and it is (pause to vomit) the new anti-FDR Democratic Party.

Call the pipers, we'll be needing Amazing Grace and a 21 gun salute.

[JaneyVee]

4. Like those Democrats who use rightwing sources on DU to trash Hillary?

[Prism]

5. Once an actual economic liberal ran, people showed their true colors

I think a lot of people - because it is the nature of partisanship - are liberal in a social and cultural sense only. They like considering themselves as forward-thinking, unlike those mouth-breathing neanderthals on the right. So they say the words, almost like prayers in a church, but they don't think about them much or make much effort to act directly in favor of them.

My eyes really opened to this as a gay man over the past ten or fifteen years. Lots of people will say, "I support equality!" And I think many of them do. But they don't want to sacrifice anything for it or really push for it outside of mouthing a slogan, posting online, and maybe voting for the Democrat now and then. For them, their work is done!

But as soon as that advocacy became inconvenient, the claws came out. I remember, in 2004, when Kerry lost, a lot of posters here blamed in on LGBTers. See, they suddenly suspected that gay rights might cost them something, and they pitched a fit.

So it was in Obama's first term. Everyone was all about marriage equality. But when Obama made some missteps and the LGBT community complained, how did all these "fierce advocates" behave? Rather than pressuring the President - you know, the person with actual power - they whirled on the LGBT community and harassed us for years. All the while declaring themselves deeply committed to gay rights.

I used to call these people bumper stickerists. They utter liberal platitudes like a social sign reaffirming their moral superiority to their fellow liberals. Words are practically deeds, after all.

And so it is in this campaign. We talk about economic justice, and suddenly all these people really, really love the TPP. We talk about crushing student debt, but once an opportunity comes up to do something about it, suddenly all these people screamed about "Free stuff!" We talk about health care for all, and suddenly single payer is an unobtainable unicorn.

And on and on and on. Basic liberal messages that no one has any problem repeating during a non-election year, but once these liberal policies might cost them something (say, the nomination of their favorite celebrity politician), suddenly everyone gets all Republican about it.

It's transparent and it's a major problem in the Democratic Party, IMO.

I'm not much into purity. But I am an actual liberal. I don't just play one on a message board or in public so I can consider myself a member of the enlightened tribe. When the time comes to pursue the policies we need, that's when people show their character and what they truly believe and will fight for.

Outside of Hillary's trophy, I have no idea what a lot of ostensible Democrats actually stand for. It doesn't seem like anything at all much of the time.

[LWolf]

6. YES. nt