2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders sticks it to the Democratic Party
Doubts are growing about the party's ability to unite after a contentious primary.In the wake of a chaotic state convention that resulted in death threats for party officials and vandalism to party headquarters, the Democratic establishment asked Bernie Sanders for his help Tuesday in getting some of his overzealous supporters to stand down. His response: Stick it.
As fallout from Saturdays Nevada Democratic convention expanded across Democratic circles, the Vermont senators defiance appeared to confirm some of the partys worst fears: The rifts caused by the presidential primary may be deeper than anyone knew.
The level of vitriol generated by the convention outcome in which Sanders backers erupted in fury over Hillary Clintons delegate win there and Sanders reaction to those pointing the finger at his supporters are suddenly raising doubts about the partys ability to quickly unite after its long slog of a primary.
"The perception that the DNC and other state parties have unfairly favored Hillary Clinton is going to make the reconciliation of Sanders and Clinton supporters nationally and in the states far harder," said Democratic strategist Simon Rosenberg, president of the NDN think tank. "The DNC should have tried much harder to address this perception early on, as it always had the potential to become a reason for Sanders partisans to question the legitimacy of Clinton's victory."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-223280
It seems that Sanders has little interest in uniting the party.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)like your candidate will.
griffi94
(3,733 posts)almost certainly have the misfortune of a political
beatdown in the senate after the campaign he's run.
They'll jerk his committe assignments first.
Maybe cut any federal spending that benefits Vermont.
Still. Bernie should be happy he's dealing with Hillary
and not LBJ.
LBJ would have really made Bernie pay for turning on the party.
I guess Bernie better hope the Clintons aren't as ruthless as everybody seems to think they are.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)griffi94
(3,733 posts)But as I've said to other Bernie supporters.
If you thought Bernie was ever going to win the primary
then your judgement is suspect to say the least.
Maybe Hillary won't win.
That remains to be seen.
Bernie won't win tho because he's not going to be the nominee.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)let's drag them to the left no matter how bad they want to be part of the seldom right wing.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)No matter what he keeps repeating like a mantra in every speech, he will not be the nominee. Right this second in CA he brought up the match-up polls against Trump, as if that will matter one iota when deciding the nominee. It's bullshit and it doesn't help to unite the party. He keeps attacking Hilalry when he knows bloody well that, for all intents and purposes, he's done.
I expected a little more decency and class from him.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)Let's start putting an end to these corporate dems who call themselves liberal, soiling the term.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Do you understand that your revolutionaries cannot win future national elections without us. Why are you trying to piss us off.
And since your revolution has failed this time around, all you have is the future.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)we live in a microwave world . I don't think you guys have the stomach for the fight. We will build off the youth, not the comfortable.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)1) The vast majority Hillary voters are going to be voting for years to come and the older people get the more reliable voters the become. Sanders lost the popular vote by Hillary by three million votes.
2) The vast majority of the young people who voted for Sanders in the primary will vote for Hillary in the General election.
3) As young people grow older they usually grow more moderate - they marry, have kids, take on greater responsibility, and start paying taxes.
4) Sanders could not even when the election of the most progressive of the two major parties.
5) There is no young socialist heir apparent ready to take up the socialist baton when Sanders drops it.
6) This country is basically center weighted. It regularly swings to the left and then to the right and then back again like a pendulum, but never does it ever go in for radical solutions except under extreme situations like the great depression.
Face it dude: The Revolution was still born.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)by her losing 15 % from Kentucky in 2008 to 2016 I repeat.. she lost 15% in 8 years wow that's gotta sting.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)And Sanders is the loser.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)you chose. It's math that she lost 15 percent. Thought you guys loved math?
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)If you need moral victories to help you to live with that, I wouldn't want to deprive you of anything which will help you better deal with the situation.
About the math that matters, Sanders needed to win Kentucky and Oregon by a 67% to 33% margin to stay on track to pull even with Hillary in pledged delegates by the convention. In Kentucky Sanders lost 46.8% to 46.3%. In Oregon Sanders won handily, but only by a 54.7% to 45.3% margin, but even that wasn't good enough.
Since Sanders did not achieve the 67% to 33% margins he needed in either Kentucky or Oregon, he will now need to win by even greater margins in the remaining few contests. I haven't calculated the margins Sanders would need to achieve going forward, but I suspect it will be 70% to 30% or better.
Sooner or later even the most optimistic Sanders supporters will admit Hillary will win the pledged delegate count. That in turn will mean no super delegates will be flipping and nomination process is essentially over.
timmymoff
(1,947 posts)we have doubts about her policies. You enjoy yourself, and get busy, for there will be no help from this end. You need to sell this awesome candidate to America, I don't and won't. A vote would be the most she would get, and that is truly up in the air. You guys built this, own it.
kaleckim
(651 posts)and is tired of the corruption and the rhetoric. I have no patience for people that want to whine about this. In the 1990's the Clintons would say some buzzwords in speeches about working people, the poor, or labor, then they'd push for policies that decimated working people, the poor and labor. Well, the victims of those policies are angry, and they see a rigged system working hard to make sure nothing does fundamentally change. Is party unity more important than addressing this? What would the party unite behind exactly? If she is the nominee, Wall Street corruption? A hawkish foreign policy? A trade model that's destroyed working people, policies that continue to support financial capital at our expense? Party unity isn't an end, its a means towards an end, or should be. It seems that Clinton supporters want to act horribly, do next to nothing about her corruption and her actual record, then demand the left vote for them regardless.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)You mean refusing to be bullied? Oh, and if she wins, just wait for the Rs.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)You thought the actions of Lange were graceful?
They stuck it to Bernie, so yeah...stick it.
Although that's not at all what he said...but then you knew that.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Fighting tooth and nail for DEMOCRACY is no vice! Maybe the DNC "leadership" should consider ... following their own effing rules so that elections are handled fairly and then there might be a cause to unify. But When the entire process in multiple states , the media etc is tilted to favor one candidate and this cannot be denied as the evidence is clear.. then people of integrity owe nothing to the party. Bernie owes the Democrats and Hillary ZERO! Purely for the way he has been treated throughout!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)I like the defiant Bernie.
If he folded to the likes of DWS and Reid etc. after corrupt treatment such as he and we have received, he would be just another empty suit grifter.
Jackilope
(819 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)but alas, it ain't so.
And the real dirt hasn't been brought up yet.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)But you knew that, right?
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... one gives a damn about
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)You really have a lot to learn, dude.
Try to get out more often.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)It's just that I don't consider Bernie "foolishness."
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)But how (some of) y'all think your tone is helping your candidate is beyond me.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)You know as well as I do how he came from no name recognition at all, while being ignored by the corporate media.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... for the most part, want to be a Bern Victim of demonizing the boogyman of the privileged.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I go with being ignored (at least in the beginning/middle - MSNBC seems, amazingly, to be airing a complete speech right now) because he threatens their power and $$$$.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... us are having our issues addressed by Clinton.
Oh my. I can't come up with a smilie that expresses the flood-level of the irony.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)At least even MSNBC, tonight, is leaving out the supers as well.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)A 74 year old socialist Jew going toe to toe with the most famous woman on the planet. And it's still goin on in late May.
Spare me 3 million votes and delegate nonsense. Any Clinton supporter who says they expected this is lying.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And they don't know what to do with it.
QC
(26,371 posts)and whoopin dey ass over and over and over.
Hard to believe it, but there was a time when a person could get a great education in politics here.
Now the only way DU could be a place to learn is if one were writing a dissertation on the psychology of personality cults.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Yep. Great way to win friends and influence people.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... and stupid conspiracy theories
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)IF she is the nominee, that will be sure to get MY vote....
brush
(53,876 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)ad nauseam is doing what for your candidate with Bernie supporters, which, face it, y'all might need....?
Now why I'm saying things that might help y'all, I do not know. So I am going to bed now.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)saltpoint
(50,986 posts)absolutely terrific this campaign. Extremely refreshing. The DNC should remove its head from where it is currently located and take a look around.
Wonderful campaign, Senator Sanders. Keep up the great work.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)In my book, he acts like what he is at heart, an Independent. He appears not to give a damn about bringing down the party, which would guarantee a Trump win.
saltpoint
(50,986 posts)most authentic Democratic candidate we've had in a long, long time," I think you've hit the essence of what makes him so appealing to the next generation of Democrats.
Who are supporting him in extraordinarily large numbers.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)I can practically recite it verbatim now. He sounds like some sort of deranged Hyde Park Corner preacher.
DebDoo
(319 posts)Beginning to end
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)(CNN quote just now) to their fanatical followers.
Excruciatingly boring, in fact.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Excuse me? That was not the reason.
StayFrosty
(237 posts)If I can't get the candidate I want I'll make sure to punish the party
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)StayFrosty
(237 posts)Only a matter of time
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Not sure why some of y'all adopt such a desperate tone.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)Instead of appeasing his more ardent supporters, he stokes the fires. THAT's why Wassermann, Reid and other party leaders are upset at him. They haven't asked him to drop out, they only asked them to tamp down the overreaction of some of his enthusiastic supporters. He talks about defeating Trump, but he seems intent on continuing to cause a rift between both sides of the Democratic divide. Not cool.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)I didn't say that his supporters weren't Democrats.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)Who else was a "democratic socialist" going to caucus with, the Republicans????
He didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)(Not that I'm really interested in your answer....)
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Yeah, the class that doesn't get a job until they are 40 years old.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)Aren't we all touchy.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)liberal from boston
(856 posts)You do realize that Bernie was a Professor of Political Science at Harvard University Kennedy School of Government and at Hamilton College.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1428616/-Bernie-Sanders-What-the-Hell-Have-You-Done-for-Us-Lately
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)No rational person is excusing his behavior or his supporters behavior.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)'Sanders has little interest in uniting with establishment corporatist party leaders'
2banon
(7,321 posts)and the very paragraph you put in quotes.
This one: (I'll bold text the point you missed)
I'll repeat it for you:
The DNC should have tried much harder to address this perception early on, as it always had the potential to become a reason for Sanders partisans to question the legitimacy of Clinton's victory."
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Beacool
(30,253 posts)Of course the Democratic party favors Hillary, why shouldn't they???? Sanders spent his adult life as an agitator, a man who stubbornly remained an Independent and ran 10 times against Democrats. Why should any party leader feel any loyalty whatsoever to a man who joined the party only to use its resources when he decided to run for president? Should they have thanked him for trying to bring down the party?
Instead of running the gamut, but pivoting to the general election, he still brings up things that are extraneous to the process of choosing the nominee. For example, a few minutes ago he brought up once again the match-up polls against Trump. He knows perfectly well that a) they mean nothing during the primary season, and more importantly, b) they mean even less in the nominating process.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)think or want. I'm sick of the oligarchy.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Who also had determined that it was "his turn" despite the fact that the Democratic BASE was not interested in another pro-war establishment candidate.
Completely TONE DEAF.
And some of us remember what happened inside that convention hall and outside that convention hall.
icecreamfan
(115 posts)Trying to reform campaign finance in a meaningful way
Speaking out against reckless regime change
Fighting for Medicare-For-All
Expanding retirement security for American workers
Trying to make higher education less debt crushing on the upcoming generation
Keep sticking it to the "Democrats" who apparently don't believe in these things
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-says-he-ran-as-democrat-for-the-media-attention/
He don't give a damn about the democratic party. He hated this party for decades.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)The long, troubled history of Bernie Sanders and the 'ideologically bankrupt' party whose White House nod he now seeks.
By MICHAEL KRUSE and MANU RAJU August 10, 2015
"You dont change the system from within the Democratic Party.
My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.
We have to ask ourselves, Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we dont agree with anything the Democratic Party says?
Bernie Sanders, everybodythe same Bernie Sanders who is running to become the Democratic Partys candidate for president of the United States.
One can argue that the two-party system is a sham, he said in a talk at Iowa State University during an event called Socialist Week.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat, he said in a profile in New England Monthly.
In that summers issue of Vermont Affairs magazine, he called the Democratic Party ideologically bankrupt, then added: They have no ideology. Their ideology is opportunism.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Beowulf
(761 posts)This seems to be real hard for Hillary supporters to understand. Assuming Hillary is the nominee, Bernie no longer needs Hillary supporters, but Hillary needs Bernie's supporters. Yet the Hillary campaign and the DNC miss no opportunity to crap all over Sanders' supporters. Nevada is just the latest incident. And tonight DWS is on the networks repeating the lie that Sanders supporters threw chairs at the stage. It's not Sanders' job to unite the party. It's Hillary's and the DNC's job to extend the olive branch and negotiate a unification.
The Clinton wing of the party emerged in the 1980's with the goal of rendering the progressive wing inconsequential. The point wasn't to form a coalition, the point was to put progressives in a place where they could be ignored while progressive votes would be taken for granted. This cycle hasn't worked out that way and the Clinton wing is furious. For a group that is famous for having no qualms compromising/triangulating with the GOP/Right, they seem repulsed by the notion they need to negotiate with progressives in order to earn the support of that wing of the party. Mr. Rosenberg speaks much truth if only the Clinton Campaign and the DNC would listen.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)If they really think they're winners, then act like it.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)In 2008, Hillary went out of her way to convince her voters to vote for Obama in the GE. She also appeared at more than 75 events on his behalf, more than any other candidate had done for his/her former opponent.
Sanders tonight in CA is still talking nonsense, claiming that he has a chance to go to the convention with more pledged delegates than Hillary. That's just plain not true and disingenuous.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)That makes it HER responsibility. If she's smart.
Oh, why am I trying to help you when I could be sleeping? G'night.
Beowulf
(761 posts)At this point in 2008, Hillary was still going strong and reminding people that Robert Kennedy was assassinated at the end of the primary season. Talk about nonsense! Hillary certainly didn't make any appearances for Obama until after the convention and Obama didn't smear Hillary's nose in it every chance he could.
It is Hillary's and the DNC's responsibility to extend the olive branch. If it's done honestly, then, I would agree it's Bernie's responsibility to respond. But right now, Hillary and the DNC are in scorched earth mode. It's not Bernie's responsibility to make peace with people who are trying to destroy him. It seems you want unconditional surrender. Well, that's not going to happen. If a united party is important, then the DNC and Hillary are the ones who have to make that happen.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)hate that he is even bringing national attention to progressive ideals like free college or single payer healthcare. That is shit that the DNC hoped to keep swept under the rug.
So even if they continue to cheat their asses off and screw Bernie out of the nomination, they are still pissed that he is putting ideas into the heads of voters that their tax money should pay for things that will make their lives substantially better and less stressful. This completely goes against the goal of the 1% who will not be satisfied until they can fill every sweatshop job for a bowl of gruel and one pee break per 12 hour shift.
Fascist assholes.
The Clinton wing of the party came into being for the purpose of rendering the progressive wing inconsequential so it could be ignored while they deconstruct the New Deal and make nice with economic elites.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)repeats this telling of the truth and advocating progressive policy outside of demographic based issues they like as the battleground of ideas by pouring as much poison into the well as they can muster.
It won't work but there is no doubt they will give it a real go.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)It is becoming more and more apparent that Bernie is more Socialist and less Democratic. Any reading of Socialist literature shows that they think that burning down the whole house is the first step to making a more just society. Or some Bullshit like that. Of course the fact that is a farce and has always lead to massive suffering does not matter. The fact that he seem to consider the vulnerable and gullible in our society to be the eggs needed to make his Socialist omelette is telling.
If he keeps doubling down despite his apparent loss, duping his enthusiastic young supporters to keep drinking the cool-aid, it will lead to a Trump Presidency.
Perhaps that has become his goal?
I will be writing in Bernie Sanders.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)and We've Got His!
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)after losing to Obama, so will Bernie. She did not bow out till the convention, neither will Bernie. This is the old pattern, no reason to act like the apocalypse is happening because no one dropped out early.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)re-election
spinboas
(48 posts)postatomic
(1,771 posts)If he did indeed say "Stick it" or some variation of that. Excuse my ignorance but is Politico a generally credible source? There's actually a word/phrase for it. I was reading an article on how Millennials will judge the value of the information content based solely on the source of the information.
I've often wondered if Bernie has been given just enough cord to make a solid case for removing him from the Democratic Party. Required level of party involvement, a little coin for the DNC, violation of the Party's Ethics code, and - and - and
My only doubt regarding the OP is the use of the phrase Democratic establishment. It's too vague and Bernie only likes to hear his own voice so I question whether he would even take a call from any Democrat.
People have short term memory these days. It's what ever is trending at the moment. The ones that don't vote for Hillary in the General Election either had no intention of voting at all or they lack the ability to see the Horror Story that is brewing over in Clumpland.
I'm completely with ya' on the "It seems that Sanders has little interest in uniting the party." To steal a particular phrase; it's an inconvenient truth.
Response to postatomic (Reply #84)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)They don't much like liberals.
Response to Beacool (Original post)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftinportland
(247 posts)Not because Hillary won. The blame is on the Nevada Democratic party leadership.
KPN
(15,662 posts)Bernie's only doing what is in the best interest of the nation long term.
If it has you worried, it is only because you have a weak candidate who can't win the GE on her own.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)to be inclusive, as it should be.
Bernie knows that America is ready for something new and Progressive whether ir not you call it a revolution.
Reagan had a "revolution" and the Democrats have been panicking from or frozen powerless in its suck ideas ever since.
The nomination of Donald Trump is just the latest event that proves the Reagan Revolution is dead!
Response to Beacool (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Maybe they could call it a "mistake".