Some Bernie folks think everything is "rigged" because they don't understand the PROCESS.

[RBInMaine]

Some Bernie activists are new to all this and simply do not understand the nominating process. I have seen this time and time again. At our Maine caucuses, there were many Bernie folks who didn't realize they needed to be registered as Democrats, and many didn't even know if they were registered at all and if so HOW they were registered.

A good many did not at all understand that the caucuses simply assign delegates to the state convention, and that you then had to show up at the state convention.

Then, many do not understand how the process works AT the state convention.

This is just what happened in Nevada. Hillary won the caucuses and then after the county level process ultimately got MORE of her delegates to the state convention. And then many Bernie folks didn't understand the convention process and how it is all done within a set of complex rules. Many came who were not even registered as Democrats. Many Sanders folks just don't understand all this because they are so new to it.

The moral of the story is UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS YOU ARE WORKING WITH before you go screaming and shouting about things being "rigged."

[DURHAM D]

1. .

[JaneyVee]

2. And it doesnt help that Bernie himself alludes to rigging.

[livetohike]

6. He doesn't understand the process! Has he ever been to a Democratic

convention? Being an Independent until just recently.

[boston bean]

7. Alludes??? He has outright stated it.

[reformist2]

3. I would ask open-minded people to search for video of the NV convention and judge for themselves.

I would link some raw video clips here, but apparently doing so is now considered "pro-Trump propaganda."

[boston bean]

4. You are being to kind by excusing their actions due to ignorance of process, imho.

[nc4bo]

5. Did anyone go back and check the registrations of the NV casino workers

Who rushed into caucus for Hillary?

There is/was a video of it. Someone hollered (probably a Hillary supporter) those people would register after the caucus.....

Any follow-up on that?

[My Good Babushka]

8. It's because of the stupidity of the process

"The whole system is a mishmash with local governments and local parties making their own rules."

"... resulting system is absurd. In the 11 states with closed primaries — where only registered Democrats can vote for Democrats, and only registered Republicans for Republicans — political independents and third-party members are shut out of the system. The Independent Voter Network estimates that between 2000 and 2013, New Jersey taxpayers paid $100 million to administer primary elections. So unaffiliated voters in New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania and elsewhere are paying for elections in which they are not even allowed a say."

"The primary process is Byzantine, undemocratic, un-American and ineffective."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-way-america-picks-presidential-nominees-is-dumb-20160216

[Surya Gayatri]

22. I've thought this for decades and feel that the whole process needs to be overhauled.

"The primary process is Byzantine, undemocratic, un-American and ineffective."

Not to mention ruinously and ridiculously expensive.

[LiberalFighter]

33. They are allowed to participate!

They have to follow the law though. If they want to vote in a primary they need to identify themselves with a political party. Anyone that is not willing to do that does not have the required involvement to understand the issues. Their connection to a candidate is limited to an issue or two that does not take into consideration of the whole picture. They also demonstrate that they are not on board with the beliefs of the political party.

Just like they are allowed to vote in the general election. But not if they are not registered or in the wrong district.

Just like taxpayers without kids still pay taxes so other kids can go to school. Or pay taxes to build roads even if you don't use those roads. Or pay taxes to build prisons even if you don't go to prison.

We could easily do away with primary elections and let the party bigwigs decide the nominees. That would also apply to every election that has been held in a primary. County political parties would decide the candidates for mayor, city council, and in some cases even for state legislators and U.S. Representatives.

----------------

"A mishmash with local governments and local parties making their own rules." The writer demonstrates that he doesn't know anything about primary elections. Even though elections are run at the local level they are controlled by laws at the state level. There are no rules set by local parties either that decide how elections are run. Rules at the local level for parties are controlled by the state party. And they don't determine how elections are conducted.

[babylonsister]

9. Can you be any more condescending? nt

[Capt. Obvious]

11. Challenge accepted

[Autumn]

10. We understand the fucking process, that's how we can see it's a fucking rigged process.

[jonmac511]

13. exactly

I've found that the more I learn about it, the more certain I am it's rigged. Come on, even DWS came out and proudly stated it's rigged to keep grassroot activists out.

[jonmac511]

12. So?

Are you implying that none of Clinton's supporters are ignorant about the rules? Making generalizations is easy and pretty lazy. I'll admit I'm a Sanders supporter but I've found that, for the most part, my fellow Sanders supporters are either informed or trying and willing to learn the process. Maybe one day we will know everything like the typical Clinton supporter.

[Nonhlanhla]

15. Of course some Clinton suppporters are also ignorant about the rules

But the reality is that a lot more of Bernie's voters are new to the process. In a way it's a compliment to your candidate: young people and previously disaffected people are voting for him in larger numbers than for Hillary. But since they are new, they often do not understand the process the way most of Hillary's supporters (who tend to be older and long-time Democrats) do. It's not an insult. It's reality. And it does explain why so many think there's rigging going on. Now of course there are some irregularities (clerical errors, weird rules, GOP meddling, etc.) - there always are in such a huge and byzantine process. But old-timers also know this. It's the newcomers who are screaming "no fair" at every hiccup, or who often don't follow the rules since they don't know them, and then complain that they've been cheated.

[treestar]

17. What is so hard about figuring out, even as a first time voter

that you have to register to vote, and that you have to pick a party and if you want to vote in the primaries, find out if your state is open or closed. Find out what it takes to be qualified to vote in the Democratic primary. If it is so important to a person, they would surely find out. Read the instructions when registering.

[LiberalFighter]

34. And for those that aren't happy with the process their state uses.

They should move to a state that does it way they want.

[treestar]

48. Exactly. Or make efforts to change the process

Some people I guess think Bernie as POTUS could magically change each state voting process.

[mmonk]

14. Every delegate is given a copy of Robert's Rules.

They know enough to get upset when it isn't followed.

[treestar]

16. agreed it is beyond childish

Bernie certainly must have known something about the system at the start. He was going up against someone who had experience with it, too. Finding out you don't like the rules as you go along - well, it just shows he is not a Democrat.

As for not knowing how you have to be registered to vote in the primaries - that's irresponsible. People need to take some responsibility and quit blaming everyone else because they don't even bother to find out what they are doing.

[NCTraveler]

18. Weaver did not know the rules of the Iowa caucus until it was over.

He said so himself. This aspect starts at the top.

[Surya Gayatri]

24. And, he is being paid millions for this egregious level of ignorance.

Criminal political malpractice.

Bernie should sue for redress and damages.

[baldguy]

19. I'm sure Sanders, his staff and advisors understand the process perfectly.

The fact that they're nonetheless lying to their supporters about it & encouraging violence because of it is criminal.

[Sunlei]

20. More guidance should have been given to 'followers' about the rules well before the caucuses.

A webpage could have been set-up with clear instructions. Persons interested in becoming a delegate directed to the site much earlier.

I don't like the way almost every state has different 'rules'. I think the process should be nationalized, each state the same rules.

I think Party name should NOT be required at all for voter registration.

[Surya Gayatri]

21. So well said...agree 100%.

The moral of the story is UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS YOU ARE WORKING WITH before you go screaming and shouting about things being "rigged."

[Exilednight]

23. When DWS comes out and says that SDs are designed to keep insurgent

Candidates from winning the nomination- then I find it hard to believe that anyone truly believes the system is not rigged for the insiders.

She openly admitted that the system is rigged, but some openly deny it, all tbe while knowing that as the words come out of their mouths that those words are not honest.

[boston bean]

25. Look at the Republican Party. Overtaken by a nutso facist.

[Surya Gayatri]

26. Firewalls, if well-managed, are very useful.

[boston bean]

27. Plus Democrats make the rules for the Democratic Primary, Not libertarians.

Not independents.

Not Republicans.

Not the Green Party members.

Not disaffected Dems who left the party.

[Surya Gayatri]

30. A-frigging-men.

political party ( pəˈlɪtɪkəl ˈpɑːtɪ )
Definitions
noun

(politics) an organization of people who share the same views about the way power should be used in a country or society (through government, policy-making, etc) ⇒ "All other political parties there have been completely banned."

[Exilednight]

28. The modern Republican Party always elects an a nutso fascist. you act like he's unique.

[boston bean]

29. Not usually one they can't even stand. LOL

[TheFarseer]

31. The process is made complicated to aid the establishment

End of story. Just vote and award the delegates proportionally. Why in the hell should there be a precinct round, then a county round, then a state round? It's so on one of those rounds, the "right" candidate can come out on top.

[SamKnause]

32. Some Bernie folks think everything is 'rigged' because they Do understand the process.

They have eyes and ears.

They know how to do their own research.

They know how to distinguish the lies from the truth.

[yardwork]

35. This.

[ljm2002]

36. Distort much?

"Hillary won the caucuses and then after the county level process ultimately got MORE of her delegates to the state convention."

Really masterful sleight of hand there: "and then after the county level process"... Yeah, about that county level process: Bernie got MORE of his delegates to the county caucuses, because a lot of Hillary's delegates failed to show up. Maybe those casino workers weren't the most dedicated bunch of delegates?

In any case, at that point, it was Hillary's delegates who did not understand, or care enough about the process to show up at the county caucuses.

Fast forward to the state caucus, where 58 of Bernie's delegates were disqualified without any chance to appeal the decision. Where the rules were changed to ignore the county results. Where votes were taken before everyone was finished registering. Where voice votes were taken, and the chair called them as she wished without taking head counts as was the custom.

Yeah, sure, Bernie's delegates did not understand the "process". That's because the "process" was blatantly, in-your-face rigged, and any fair minded person watching the videos can see it. It is hard to understand such a process.

[QC]

37. Are you using your vast knowledge of all things political

to help get that nutcase Paul LePage out of your governor's office?

Maine needs you!

[Haveadream]

38. I have reservations about what happened in Nevada from an ethical standpoint

I've been looking at the big picture and admit to having a problem with some of the "procedures" myself. One of which is a system in which people are permitted to overturn the results of the entire state election after the fact at a county level. I understand there are party "procedures" that allow people to do it. But, from a moral perspective, it seems to be tantamount to overturning the will of the voters and a way of gaming the system itself.

The entire caucus system itself is undemocratic. Unfortunately, as long as it serves to advance the advantage of some, they are more than willing to defend those wins as a legitimate reflection of how the voters in those states really feel even if it clearly suppresses the votes of most.

[ljm2002]

47. No one overturned anything...

...at the county caucuses. Bernie's delegates turned up while many of Hillary's delegates did not. They followed the rules. Then at the state caucus the rules were changed, 58 of Bernie's delegates were disqualified without recourse, and now we have Hillary supporters saying his supporters "didn't show up to the state caucus."

It is an obvious case of them being embarrassed about what happened at the county level, due to the party's own Byzantine process, and then engaging in a thuggish version of tit-for-tat.

[Hiraeth]

39. and some people thought the process was rigged long before this campaign season started

and a lot of them have changed their tune.

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. They were looking for the Zuccotti Park megaphone and couldn't find it

Hmmm. Maybe that's why they're so obsessed with Bill Clinton's bullhorn!

[hobbit709]

41. Read Thomas Frank's book.

[ancianita]

42. "Rigged" doesn't mean what you think it means. Berners claim that a true "process" is open

to inclusion, open to the revision of itself and its goals, building through the give-and-take articulation of common cause. A true process is democratic-based, not power-based and not money-based.

The so-called process Berners have been subjected to is, even according to Bill Moyers, one that is hell bent on reaching ends defined by the few for the many.

All that I see and what other Berners see is the structure of a cult, not a big tent coalition. That there is what the Berners mean by rigging, for lack of better articulation about the process they want. "They" meaning people by the millions who are not even "some" in the Bernie camp, but Americans in the independent and a lot of other disengaged camps.

(Hi from a fellow Mainiac. )

[ancianita]

43. Here's the latest on your "rigged" terminology from CommonDreams.org.

"The story is not that Sanders supporters are unruly because Sanders has whipped them into a frenzy over “allegations” of a rigged primary process. It is not that they lack education about the process. Sanders supporters understand very well how the process works and what kind of candidate is supposed to make it to the end. Real and actual evidence of a rigged primary is what fuels such discontent."

The article says that Americans way beyond those in partisan confines have said "Enough is enough."

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/20/establishment-collectively-stunned-see-citizens-reject-rigged-democratic-primary

[mhatrw]

44. welcome to the machine

[Fumesucker]

45. We love you too, RB

We appreciate your attempts to pound sense into our thick heads but really BernieBros are just a bunch of Blockheads and all of this is far beyond our ken. Easier to teach quantum mechanics to chimpanzees.

[JCMach1]

46. It's BYZANTINE... How about next time we go to popular vote for the nomination

with Proportional allocation at the National Level, so that literally EVERY VOTE COUNTS.

Deep six Superdelegates full-stop... They would only be allowed to vote in a hung, or extra-ordinary circumstance. You could even prevent them from voting at until until say a third ballot in a hung situation.