The battle for Fallujah is starting......again.

[jeff47]

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2016/05/22/the-battle-for-fallujah-has-once-again-begun/

Earlier today, which is already tomorrow in Iraq, Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al Abadi announced that Iraqi Forces (regular Iraqi Army and [most likely the National] Police, as well as irregular forces from the sectarian and tribal militias) had begun their operations to retake Fallujah.

What should be of great concern to everyone is whether the fate of Fallujah is similar to that of Ramadi. The Iraqis retook it, but it was reduced to rubble. And as Major Mohammed Hussein, a member of the counter-terrorism battalion that was first into Ramadi at the start of the offensive remarked: “All they (Islamic State) leave is rubble. You can’t do anything with rubble.” Islamic State has, apparently, mined and wired explosives throughout Fallujah as they did in Ramadi and there is a large civilian population trapped within the city and behind the enemy lines. The Iraqi’s have conducted an Information Operation informing these civilians to fly white flags from their buildings so they won’t be targeted by the Iraqi Forces. Unfortunately if they do so they will be targeted by the Islamic State Forces for collaboration.

Tell me again how the Iraq vote was so very long ago, and doesn't matter at all today.

Also, the story at the link has lovely pictures of the ruble formerly known as Ramadi.

[Dem2]

1. I remember the days when Bush/Cheney were to blame for lying us into Iraq

[Silver_Witch]

5. And still are to blame.

They were aided and abetted however by others - who are also guilty.

[Dem2]

8. Yes, 77% of the Senate and 69% of the House

[jeff47]

10. And the large number of people who helped them excuses the vote because.......? (nt)

[Dem2]

12. It doesn't excuse Bush or Cheney who sold these lies

I agree.

[jeff47]

13. And it excuses the people who cast those votes because........? (nt)

[Dem2]

16. The Congress rubber stamps these resolutions

It's what they do. The only military disapprovals of any sort have been based on partisan politics.

[jeff47]

43. Except there were lots in Congress who voted no.

Not only that, but there were even more in Congress who did not make an impassioned floor speech in favor of the war.

[Dem2]

44. OK?

You seem to have an agenda

[Aerows]

45. Speaking the unvarnished truth?

Yes, jeff47 has a tendency to do that.

I hope the trend catches on.

[jeff47]

48. As do you.

But hey, what's a few million dead people compared to the horrible cost of the WaPo saying something unpleasant!!

[Dem2]

49. And there you are being disgusting

SO predictable, so easy to drive people away from your simple-minded agenda.

[jeff47]

50. Yes, it is so disgusting to have people remind you of the consequences of these decisions.

Why should you let those consequences clutter your beautiful mind?

[Dem2]

51. lol

I'm worried about what's important:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512033482

Not trying to insult and deride people over something they had nothing to do with.

[Fawke Em]

2. Absolutely no thought as to what would happen when we destablize nations.

Iraq
Libya
Syria

Sigh.

[Skwmom]

41. It is crazy that we keep doing it. We must be really changing a lot of hearts and minds.

Just in the wrong direction.

[arcane1]

52. Oh, there's one thought: how to sell off the country's assets, and who gets each piece n/t

[cheapdate]

3. The so-called government of Iraq has been illegitimate and dysfunctional from day one.

[Silver_Witch]

4. I weep at the never ending war.

This one vote started a horrible disaster.

[RobertEarl]

21. The power she had ....

If she had stood up and fought for peace on the senate floor, against bushco, she'd have been our Heroine forever.

But she didn't and no real peace loving person can ever forgive her. She might have saved hundreds of thousands of lives if she had just resisted bushco. And would have become president in 2008 and today Obama would be campaigning for 2016.

My gawd, what a missed opportunity for her and thousands of dead people and Iraq, and the Middle East.

All she had to do was resist.....

[Silver_Witch]

23. +1000 thank you for such a thoughtful response.

So wonderful that so many here are such better posters than I. Thank you very very much!

[RobertEarl]

55. Well, you did inspire the post

That's what makes DU so great. Inspirational.

[PufPuf23]

53. So simple and true. Thanks.

But Hillary Clinton likes to get some war on. Also true.

[Alex4Martinez]

6. Clinton peeps will try to spin this for her. We need to remind people that we shouldn't be there.

Fight endless wars. And stop voting for people out of fear of terrorism.

Jesus, America needs to grow up.

[Tavarious Jackson]

7. It's not Bush's war anymore.

All Hillary's fault. The woman is to blame. Joe Biden voted for that ugly war but no one ever brings up his name. He is a man though.

[jeff47]

11. Joe Biden isn't running for office and asking us to move on from his vote. (nt)

[Tavarious Jackson]

14. So he gets a pass?

[jeff47]

15. Nope. If he was running for office it would be a problem for him too.

Part of my support for Obama in 2008 was his stance against the Iraq war. He couldn't vote "No" at the time since he wasn't in the Senate, but he did oppose it publicly.

[Aerows]

17. I agree with jeff47, who has been a DU member in good standing

for quite a long time.

I don't appreciate your attempts to paint a solid DUer into something small.

It's not the unkindness that is upsetting, it's the slander of a decent human being that pisses me off - and jeff47 and I have disagreed on a shit ton of things, but I don't doubt his sincerity.

[Tavarious Jackson]

18. I must be the outsider

of the DU establishment.

[Aerows]

19. A good start would be

refraining from raining shit down on people here at DU.

[JI7]

9. the thing is most people blame Bush for it

[RobertEarl]

22. Trump blamed bush

But H did not. H voted to follow bush.

[BootinUp]

20. Keep shoveling the blame at the wrong party. Hasn't worked yet but who knows

maybe by 2020 you will finally have brainwashed enough people to win a primary.

[RobertEarl]

24. And you wonder why

Why we can so factually paint some H supporters as believing in violence as acceptable.

[BootinUp]

25. And you wonder why, despite no war cheering from the D party you people keep spinning it

like there was.

[RobertEarl]

26. Half the congressional Dems voted to resist bushco

The other half, led by Hillary, voted to follow bushco and invade Iraq.

Funny thing is, Trump called it for what it was: A pack of lies.

[BootinUp]

27. Your continued mischaracterization of what they voted for is noted. nt

[RobertEarl]

29. You are being dishonest

But then when that is all you have, it is to be expected.

I am anti-violence, a Bernie supporter and anti-war.

What are you?

[BootinUp]

31. I'm someone who became very concerned in 2003 about the war

and supported Wes Clark in 2004.

What I don't get is why you shortcut the truth about the war and the IWR vote. I get you that you disagreed with the vote. But it was hardly following Bush to war. It was calling for him to meet certain conditions before invading. To blame the Democrats for Bush's lies is wrong. Plain and simple. You could take the higher road and blame them for the vote but blame Bush for his lies and for HIS decision to invade.

[RobertEarl]

32. I blame Hillary

Oh yes I do. She had power that if she used it correctly, could have possibly prevented the invasion. Lots of people died trying, but not Hillary. No, she voted for the invasion, everyone with any sense saw it coming and the vote was a rubber stamp for bushco.

Then when Hillary had a chance to make peace as SoS, she did not, instead she supported more war.

And you sit there and say I am short cutting the truth? Have you no shame? No shame at all? Do you not even give a damn about the thousands dead?

[BootinUp]

33. You made your opinion very clear. My issue with your analysis

is that it ignores all the politics. You are just mad at her cause she didn't stop it. Its such a simplistic pile of poop, that what is says to me is you are against her and just want to throw poop.

[BootinUp]

36. What? Is that based on a short clip you found somewhere?

Watch her whole speech and learn something. She presented all 3 choices AVAILABLE to her and explained the pros and cons of each. I am somewhat further appalled at the ignorance around here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511948709

[RobertEarl]

35. I don't care what you think

You are beyond me having any sympathy for you or give any respect to your trash talk.

I do care about the thousands dead and the continued Iraq destruction and the misery of the people there who were damaged by your candidate's vote.

Your support for the war tells me all I need to know about you, I am ashamed we share the same party. We anti-war people will win this and Hillary will fade away, or we are all damned to pretty much the same hell as Iraq.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. A lot of Senators voted against that turd.

She didn't.

[PufPuf23]

54. Hillary Clinton never cheers for war.

Clinton giggles over what POTUS Obama says is his biggest mistake.

[Samantha]

28. The concept that a "preemptive war" was legitimate for national security

was and is beyond asinine. From the moment I first heard that phrase, I knew we had liars leading us.

When I watched the US tanks crossing the desert, I was at work and the scene was on a big-screen television in the main conference room of the law firm. I stopped dead in my tracks and cried. It was the only time I ever cried at work.

We cannot ask for forgiveness for this tragic mistake because there is no remedy to the horror we induced into people's lives, which still persists today.

Sam

[Warren DeMontague]

37. IS THERE NO END TO THE VIOLENT MISOGYNISTIC PERFIDITY OF THE BERNIEBROS?

[tirebiter]

40. Sometimes there are no good choices

But not making one is even worse. We totally fucked up Fallujah under Bush. This is a battle we should not be part of except to offer intelligence and try to help Iraq mend things in any way possible with the local Shia.

[gordyfl]

42. Saying Hillary has "poor judgement"

is being polite. The woman lacks compassion.

[vintx]

47. This.

[VulgarPoet]

46. ...

Bayh (D-IN). Biden (D-DE). Breaux (D-LA). Cantwell (D-WA). Carnahan (D-MO). Carper (D-DE). Cleland (D-GA). Clinton (D-NY). Daschle (D-SD). Dodd (D-CT). Dorgan (D-ND). Edwards (D-NC). Feinstein (D-CA). Harkin (D-IA). Hollings (D-SC). Johnson (D-SD). Kerry (D-MA). Kohl (D-WI). Landrieu (D-LA). Lieberman (D-CT). Lincoln (D-AR). Miller (D-GA). Nelson (D-FL). Nelson (D-NE). Reid (D-NV). Rockefeller (D-WV). Schumer (D-NY). Torricelli (D-NJ).

Every. Single. Democrat. Who voted for the Iraq war. They are all complicit. They all have blood on their hands. And I will not forgive them for it.