NYT: Do Sanders Supporters Favor His Policies?

[YouDig]

Bernie Sanders is widely credited with pulling Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party to the left on major issues like health care, trade, financial regulation and the minimum wage. Now he says he will battle all the way to the convention on behalf of “people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change.” But the premise animating that battle — that Mr. Sanders’s surprising success in the primary race is because of his liberal policy positions — may be familiar and comforting, but it is greatly exaggerated.

(snip)

Mr. Sanders did just nine points better, on average, among liberals than he did among moderates. By comparison, he did 11 points worse among women than among men, 18 points worse among nonwhites than among whites and 28 points worse among those who identified as Democrats than among independents.

It is very hard to point to differences between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders’s proposed policies that could plausibly account for such substantial cleavages. They are reflections of social identities, symbolic commitments and partisan loyalties.

Yet commentators who have been ready and willing to attribute Donald Trump’s success to anger, authoritarianism, or racism rather than policy issues have taken little note of the extent to which Mr. Sanders’s support is concentrated not among liberal ideologues but among disaffected white men.

(more)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/opinion/campaign-stops/do-sanders-supporters-favor-his-policies.html

[mmonk]

1. The old white thingy again.

Because only white males care about the income inequality thing.

[merrily]

4. Only six years older than Hillary and looks far healthier and more vigorous.

The ageism is beyond stupid and self-defeating.

[Armstead]

2. A couple opf professors pimping a theory to sell a book

A careful reading of the piece indicates that the authors have developed a theory, and are plugging the current campaign into it to justify their pre-existing theory..

From the article:

The notion that elections are decided by voters’ carefully weighing competing candidates’ stands on major issues reflects a strong faith in American political culture that citizens can control their government from the voting booth. We call it the “folk theory” of democracy.

When candidates surpass expectations, observers caught up in the folk theory believe that they have tapped some newly potent political issue or ideology. Thus, many analysts have argued that Mr. Sanders’s surprising support signals a momentous shift to the left among Democrats.

But wishing does not make it so. Decades of social-scientific evidence show that voting behavior is primarily a product of inherited partisan loyalties, social identities and symbolic attachments. Over time, engaged citizens may construct policy preferences and ideologies that rationalize their choices, but those issues are seldom fundamental.

[YouDig]

6. It fits the data pretty well in this case.

The big difference between Hillary and Bernie voters isn't ideological. The biggest difference is race and gender, with white males flocking to Bernie a lot more heavily than liberals.

[w4rma]

10. And American-Asians, and Latinos, and Native Americans are flocking to Bernie.

The *only* demographics that are loyally backing Hillary are African-Americans and old people.

[YouDig]

11. Latinos and women go to Hillary. Bernie gets mainly white men.

[w4rma]

13. 4 out of 10 Hispanics view Clinton poorly. I said what I said, because what I said is accurate. (nt)

[YouDig]

14. They voted for Hillary more than Bernie. I forgot, Bernie supporters don't care about votes.

[morningfog]

15. He wins by large margins everyone under 35.

Across race and gender. It's disingenuous to suggest he is the white man's candidate. They would be trumpy.

[JRLeft]

16. The biggest difference is ideological. A lot of Bernie supporters are voting for Trump to completely

destroy the country in order to save it.

[Andy823]

20. Wasn't that kind of what happened in 2010

Many sit home and did not vote because they were told that letting republicans control things would "save" the country in the long run. Looking at all the states that were taken over by the republicans that year tells me that didn't work either, and neither will letting Trump win.

People who want change need to start at their local levels organizing to get people in office that will help with the change they want. Then it needs to go on to state levels, and national levels. Letting republicans take control, with Trump as president, is simply insanity, and will do no good for anyone, but Trump.

[JRLeft]

21. No, the Democrats gave voters no reason to come out and vote for them. Too much austerity.

[Demsrule86]

3. It does not surprise me

I have noticed this...the disregard for the minority vote and for the women's vote...within the Sanders campaign. the Southern states don't count somehow meme and abortion issues are a distraction meme . And I think it was yesterday Bernie said gun issues divide us...so I guess no new gun regulations. What kind of Democrat is Bernie Sanders?

[merrily]

5. NYT never met a hit piece on Sanders it didn't love. Wake up, America.

[YouDig]

7. Yes they're part of the conspiracy for sure.

[BootinUp]

19. So what's your explanation for the poll data they highlight?

[surrealAmerican]

8. One problem with only comparing "proposed policies" ...

... is credibility. Voters would have to believe the candidates are equally sincere in their proposals.

Even Clinton's supporters expect her to "pivot" to the right on all her proposals after the primaries.

[Tavarious Jackson]

9. I don't expect her to pivot to the right.

Her record does not suggest she will. This "republican lite" talking point has no merit. She has voted pretty left as Senator and has pivoted left as have all democrats in recent years.

[JRLeft]

17. LMFAO!

OK then.

[BootinUp]

22. It depends on whether we are talking about rhetoric or actually different positions

Do I think her rhetoric or issues she talks about the most may change? Sure. How much depends on how well she appears to be doing. Do I think she will make any fundamental changes to her positions? No.

[thesquanderer]

23. Another issue is, who spoke out and pushed these proposals and positions first?

It is silly to suggest things like "hey, they're both against the TPP, so that can't really be the reason you like Bernie better." Hillary wouldn't have come out against the TPP if it weren't for Bernie. If someone DID like Bernie for positions like this, why would anyone expect them to SWITCH to Hillary just because she subsequently adopts some similar positions? You already have a candidate you like. Having someone else mimic those positions is not, by itself, sufficient motivation to switch. Especially when the switch can so easily be perceived as one of political expediency rather than deep conviction.

[Autumn]

12. Nah, I just like his hair

[Orsino]

18. Well, I'm just into him for his raw, animal sexuality. n/t

[Eric J in MN]

24. More millennial women view Sanders favorably

...than view Clinton or Trump favorably.

Sanders supporters like his policies.